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Drifts
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Joined: 22 Nov 2004
Posts: 28374
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 Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2006 9:24 am Post subject: |
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| angrypuppy wrote: | | Drifts wrote: | | wolfpaclaker wrote: | | 62 wrote: | | wolfpaclaker wrote: | | Mitch will get bashed no matter what move he makes. |
Or what move he doesn't make...
Like..
Jason Kidd
Baron Davis
Ron Artest, on a related note, Kings are back.
All those great FA signings...no way Mittch deserves to get bashed. |
Oh he deserves to be critisized for some of his moves. No arguments there.
But some will bash his EVERY move.
Every single one.
While Mitch wasted money on Vlade and McKie - Who would you rather have with the MLE that is doing better than Smush?
Daniels - Long, Bad K
Watson - Denver is shopping him madly
There's times to pony up and pay a FA - and then there's a time not to.
I have yet to see Mitch let a FA who deserved the money sought - walk. |
yeah coz Mckie and Divac deserved the moneyt they stole er got... that's funny wolf. Stop making excuses, AD and Watson are guys this team can use and they'd be very helpful. |
I won't argue that McKie and Divac were poor signings, and I wasn't wild about either. But AD and Watson were out of reach. The wouldn't have taken the Laker mid-level offer, as the years were limited by the 2007 plan. That plan came from the top, and it made sense. |
Problem is, how many quality players would actually play for the Lakers (or any team for that matter) without a bloated contract? Not too many. To improve a team somehow management has to overpay a little. What did the Lakers get out of their MLE the last 2 years? Nothing. Having AD or Watson is better than having nothing at all. I'm not a big fan of the 2007 plan, I hope it works though.
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eldrunko714
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Joined: 31 Dec 2005
Posts: 223
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| Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2006 9:26 am Post subject: |
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| The Dagger wrote: | | If this is true Kupchak is going to lose respect around the league. You don't offer day old trash for a diamond in the rough. This is disrespectful and a waste of time. I really hope this is not true. Can Kupchak be that dumb? No wonder his food is spoiling, he can't close anything. |
Isiah offered Penny Hardaway for Pau Gasol  What are you talking about? |
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Addicus
Star Player
Joined: 02 Sep 2005
Posts: 9642
Location: Dave's Pimp Palace
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| Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2006 9:26 am Post subject: |
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KobeButler wrote:
| Quote: | psydesho wrote:
It's funny how these asswipes keep ragging on Mitch and saying this and that won't work.
Anyone remotely watching NBA basketball in the last 6 years knows that Isiah took over a team overburndened by bad contracts from Scott Leymen. I swear that guy was trying to undo all the wrong that ever happened to Black America with the contracts he was handing out to some of these players (yes, I'm black so cool out). I knew I should have played basketball. You realize how rich I'd be with a Scott Layden contract? I should also add he gave Travis Knight huge money too.
If this proposal is true realize that it is one of the few offers that Isiah has/will recieved that didn't take on an already large contract or a free agent that he was going to have to give big money immediately or in the near future.
This trade gives him flexibility in either trading these guys again or cutting them at the end of the year. Devean might be a Larry Brown type guy and finally flourish. Slava being injured looks like trade fodder.
You haters can hush now. |
| Quote: | Knicks just traded for Jalen Rose. If they wanted cap space, wouldnt of it had been wise to just keep Davis and let his contract exprie this summer?
Plus Thomas gave Jerome James a big contrct this summer. He also traded for a worthless Q Rich who was considered overpaid as it is(why the suns traded him.) Thomas surely aint helping the matter himself is he? |
Notice - there is no place in my rant that says Isiah is not an idiot. It states he did not create the situation.
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angrypuppy
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Joined: 13 Apr 2001
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| Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2006 9:28 am Post subject: |
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| Drifts wrote: |
Problem is, how many quality players would actually play for the Lakers (or any team for that matter) without a bloated contract? Not too many. To improve a team somehow management has to overpay a little. What did the Lakers get out of their MLE the last 2 years? Nothing. Having AD or Watson is better than having nothing at all. I'm not a big fan of the 2007 plan, I hope it works though. |
Well at the end of the day, the players all want the money, so the point is well taken. Personally I felt that the 2007 plan made sense at the time, and that if management decided to adhere to it, then they MUST compensate by overpaying lower-tier talent like Chris Duhon (see my earlier post). |
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Addicus
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Joined: 02 Sep 2005
Posts: 9642
Location: Dave's Pimp Palace
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| Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2006 9:32 am Post subject: |
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^^ Also, Q would do well in Denver IMO. Rose is there because Brown wants to get rid of Starbury and needs someone to run the point while A. Davis' wife was too much bad press when the Knicks really don't need it.
Please notice my statement -
| Quote: | | If this proposal is true realize that it is one of the few offers that Isiah has/will recieved that didn't take on an already large contract or a free agent that he was going to have to give big money immediately or in the near future. |
Just letting a player go for nothing rarely occurs anymore. It leaves a sour taste in the mouths of all upper management because it makes them look inept (even though we know they are sometimes). This trade allows the Knicks options (trade / resign / cut). That flexibility is valuable at this time.
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dries
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| Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2006 9:38 am Post subject: |
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| The Dagger wrote: | | If this is true Kupchak is going to lose respect around the league. |
He'll earn mine. |
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LAL25
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| Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2006 9:42 am Post subject: |
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| Guys, Frye is not that good. |
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RG73
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Joined: 14 Jul 2001
Posts: 11508
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| Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2006 9:43 am Post subject: |
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| wolfpaclaker wrote: | While Mitch wasted money on Vlade and McKie - Who would you rather have with the MLE that is doing better than Smush?
Daniels - Long, Bad K |
Can Daniels do what Odom is doing? Yes. Can he defend better than Smush? Yes. If they're dumping the cap relief plan then it seems kind of stupid to pass up on a competent point guard.
| Quote: | | Watson - Denver is shopping him madly |
Denver is shopping him madly because they apparently never intended to keep him. They've been shopping him from day 1. It seems the point in signing him was to package him as part of a deal, so that doesn't really say anything about Watson's ability.
What are two of our biggest needs? Defense at the 1 and a competent floor general. Watson could have solved both of those needs. Just think about how much better this team would be if they just had a guy who could actually stop point guard penetration even 50% of the time and a guy who could share the initiating duties. So yeah, not signing either one of those guys if we weren't going to stick to the cap space plan is looking like another blown opportunity.
I don't know, maybe its just me, but an MLE contract for a starting point guard in today's NBA seems about right. You pay bottom dollar you get Smush and Sasha.
| Quote: | | There's times to pony up and pay a FA - and then there's a time not to. |
When you have very little talent you need to pony up and pay. The reason, or one of the reasons, we have so little talent to begin with is management's refusal to use the MLE for years. I honestly don't think you can make an argument that any guard besides Kobe on our roster is better than Daniels or Watson. You can give the argument that we're doing ok with what we have, or that neither player would put us into contention and you'd be right. But to build a decent team you need to actually get decent players, not bargain basement discount players.
| Quote: | | I have yet to see Mitch let a FA who deserved the money sought - walk. |
Then you haven't been watching. He's let lots of guys who were worth the money walk. Lots. Look over the course of his tenure and then look at who was available and signed for MLE contracts over the years. Then look at who we have on the roster after Kobe, Odom (who I will, despite my not wanting him on the team, concede is starting quality) and maybe Mihm (who's basically become a decent center given the lack of quality at that position) who is better. And compare the roster 2-12 to any other team in the league and tell me how many teams we have more talent than.
Every signing doesn't need to be a blockbuster. I'm really hard pressed to see Watson as a bad signing given the glaring needs of this team. This summer you'll be telling us Ely isn't worth a full MLE and Mitch will probably agree with you. Meanwhile we'll still have no 4 with a semblence of an offensive game. I don't know, it seems to me if you're willing to spend $30 million for Odom and Brian Grant you can spend $5 million for a decent player. |
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angrypuppy
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| Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2006 9:43 am Post subject: |
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oops, wrong thread
Last edited by angrypuppy on Fri Feb 10, 2006 9:46 am; edited 1 time in total |
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eldrunko714
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Joined: 31 Dec 2005
Posts: 223
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| Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2006 9:43 am Post subject: |
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| You have to think it wasn't a bad offer. We offer salary cap relief while at the same time taking on one of their bad contracts. Immediate cap relief. The only way NY gets anywhere soon is to dump salaries or they will suck forever. |
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AmoebaD
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| Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2006 9:43 am Post subject: |
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>544<
Well, we do know that Isaiah does want Slava... :roll:
(Remember this...?)
| Quote: | | I'll trade the number one pick for Slava Medvedenko and his last two slices of pizza! |
HehHeh... 
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dcarter4kobe
Franchise Player
Joined: 30 Jul 2005
Posts: 17674
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| Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2006 9:50 am Post subject: |
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| LAL25 wrote: | | Guys, Frye is not that good. |
Have you watched him play this year.He is earning playing time under LB as a rookie,I cant remeber anybody who did that,He still needs work on his d but which rookie big man who did not in the last 5 years not nameing Emeka |
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Exick
Site Staff
Joined: 17 Mar 2005
Posts: 15880
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| Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2006 9:57 am Post subject: |
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| 62 wrote: | Isiah and Mitch are equally clueless.
The difference is, Isiah is making deals, Mitch is not. Pick your poison. |
I'll take the best player in the league in his prime on a young team with the ability to maneuver in the near future with the added bonus that they can make the playoffs right now versus the pile of (bleep) Isiah has turned the Knicks franchise into. If your poison is $330 million in guaranteed salary over the next 4 years, then please go ahead and become a Knicks fan. |
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vvbandit
Star Player
Joined: 01 Jun 2005
Posts: 2413
Location: Newport Coast
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| Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2006 9:59 am Post subject: |
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| JD wrote: | | The Dagger wrote: | | JD wrote: | | The Dagger wrote: | | If this is true Kupchak is going to lose respect around the league. You don't offer day old trash for a diamond in the rough. This is disrespectful and a waste of time. I really hope this is not true. Can Kupchak be that dumb? No wonder his food is spoiling, he can't close anything. |
Yeah... and you're so much smarter.
Oh yeah... and everything you hear on the radio, TV and the Internet is true. |
That's why I prefaced me statement with "If this is true". |
Uh huh... because reading your post, your mispells, the message you were trying to get across. I can see that you're trying to keep an open mind. :roll: |
You're disrespectful for no apparent reason, there is no need for it. |
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Dennis_D
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Joined: 12 Apr 2001
Posts: 2017
Location: North Dallas
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| Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2006 10:05 am Post subject: |
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| psydesho wrote: | | Anyone remotely watching NBA basketball in the last 6 years knows that Isiah took over a team overburndened by bad contracts from Scott Leymen. I swear that guy was trying to undo all the wrong that ever happened to Black America with the contracts he was handing out to some of these players (yes, I'm black so cool out). I knew I should have played basketball. You realize how rich I'd be with a Scott Layden contract? I should also add he gave Travis Knight huge money too. |
Actually, it was Rick Pitino who gave Travis Knight his huge contract. Knight came back to the Lakers when West traded Van Exel for Tony Battie and then Tony Battie for Knight. Knight got traded to New York with Glen Rice for Horace Grant.
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Dennis_D
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Joined: 12 Apr 2001
Posts: 2017
Location: North Dallas
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| Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2006 10:13 am Post subject: |
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| The Dagger wrote: | | If this is true Kupchak is going to lose respect around the league. You don't offer day old trash for a diamond in the rough. This is disrespectful and a waste of time. I really hope this is not true. Can Kupchak be that dumb? No wonder his food is spoiling, he can't close anything. |
Malik Rose for Nazr Mohammed.
Any GM who will take a past-his-prime, overpaid, undersized PF for a young C with potential may take any damn trade.
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wolfpaclaker
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Joined: 29 May 2002
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| Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2006 10:25 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Can Daniels do what Odom is doing? Yes. Can he defend better than Smush? Yes. If they're dumping the cap relief plan then it seems kind of stupid to pass up on a competent point guard |
First - You are ignoring that Daniels has injury concerns. Second - He is a player that can not be trusted upon to invest the next 5 years of the PG spot on.
That has a lot more to do with not giving him a contract that long. Mitch HAS never given a full MLE to any player. They may just not be a fan of playing average talent that much money.
| Quote: | Denver is shopping him madly because they apparently never intended to keep him. They've been shopping him from day 1. It seems the point in signing him was to package him as part of a deal, so that doesn't really say anything about Watson's ability.
What are two of our biggest needs? Defense at the 1 and a competent floor general. Watson could have solved both of those needs. Just think about how much better this team would be if they just had a guy who could actually stop point guard penetration even 50% of the time and a guy who could share the initiating duties. So yeah, not signing either one of those guys if we weren't going to stick to the cap space plan is looking like another blown opportunity. |
Watson would have been good. But again, you measure what you can spend on Watson vs what you can spend on an impact bigman.
I rather spend a ton of money on impact than a backup guard.
| Quote: | | I don't know, maybe its just me, but an MLE contract for a starting point guard in today's NBA seems about right. You pay bottom dollar you get Smush and Sasha. |
Smush is going to get the MLE too if he keeps up his play. Smush Parker right now is playing on par with the MLE.
| Quote: | | When you have very little talent you need to pony up and pay. The reason, or one of the reasons, we have so little talent to begin with is management's refusal to use the MLE for years. I honestly don't think you can make an argument that any guard besides Kobe on our roster is better than Daniels or Watson. You can give the argument that we're doing ok with what we have, or that neither player would put us into contention and you'd be right. But to build a decent team you need to actually get decent players, not bargain basement discount players. |
Oh no arguments that we need the talent, RG. We are deprived NO DOUBT. But again, I go back to spending longterm.
If the Lakers spend longterm, I think it will be on a bigman. They were willing to deal for Boozer - weren't they? That's not part of the capspace plan - recall that trade.
So I don't think they will ignore all trades. But at the very least, they want a very good player to use that money on. Cement a foundation to build around.
And also recall, Artest was a 2008 K. Again, going against capspace. But the Lakers were willing to deal for Ron-Ron.
They will pay players who deserve the invesment longterm. They defenitely are willing to pay young big's in their twenties
| Quote: | | Then you haven't been watching. He's let lots of guys who were worth the money walk. Lots. Look over the course of his tenure and then look at who was available and signed for MLE contracts over the years. Then look at who we have on the roster after Kobe, Odom (who I will, despite my not wanting him on the team, concede is starting quality) and maybe Mihm (who's basically become a decent center given the lack of quality at that position) who is better. And compare the roster 2-12 to any other team in the league and tell me how many teams we have more talent than. |
We are thin after Bryant, Odom and Mihm. No arguments there. But it's not about filing your roster with marginal talent at 3-8. It's about getting maximum value for your dollars
Buss has a salary limit. Paying MLE players every year would disallow the Lakers to make moves - yes the big ones. Why? Becaue Buss wouldn't sign off on that kind of salary then.
Remember when Buss refused to pay for Pippen when we had Shaq and Kobe on the max K's? Why was that?
| Quote: | | Every signing doesn't need to be a blockbuster. I'm really hard pressed to see Watson as a bad signing given the glaring needs of this team. This summer you'll be telling us Ely isn't worth a full MLE and Mitch will probably agree with you. Meanwhile we'll still have no 4 with a semblence of an offensive game. I don't know, it seems to me if you're willing to spend $30 million for Odom and Brian Grant you can spend $5 million for a decent player. |
Spending that money on the Shaq trade actually saved them lux tax savings, RG. So you are ignoring the aspect that Shaq was going to be signed until 2010 (If he stayed) and the Lakers would be in Lux tax hell.
The Lakers as of now, have an oppurtunity to totally re-tool their salaries and structure of the team.
Bryant
2 All-Star calibar players
Young rookie contract players
I like that. Atleast way more than I like 6-7 MLE players alongside Kobe and Lamar.
I take the one impact big over the 4-5 marginal MLE players. Not using the 5/6 year MLE every season could allow Mitch to make a big salary aquisition down the line ... |
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angel
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Joined: 31 Jul 2004
Posts: 14226
Location: city of angels
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| Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2006 10:35 am Post subject: |
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Mitch is on record that at this point the Lakers would only consider trading Bynum for a couple of players in the NBA. My guesses are Tim Duncan and LeBron James.
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"Darkness cannot drive out darkness. Only light can do that. Hate cannot drive out hate. Only love can do that." ~~Martin Luther King Jr.~~ |
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TACH
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Joined: 03 Nov 2005
Posts: 28461
Location: Chillin on the Delaware.. from the Jersey Side
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| Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2006 10:36 am Post subject: |
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| eldrunko714 wrote: | | You have to think it wasn't a bad offer. We offer salary cap relief while at the same time taking on one of their bad contracts. Immediate cap relief. The only way NY gets anywhere soon is to dump salaries or they will suck forever. |
So true,.. it's not like they are going to be able to move Steph, who is due $57 million over the 3 years.... http://www.hoopshype.com/salaries/new_york.htm
Zeke is desperate... that's why he went to Larry and asked who should they look to dump and acquire... |
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venturalakersfan
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Location: The Gold Coast
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| Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2006 10:39 am Post subject: |
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| Drifts wrote: |
AD and Watson are guys this team can use and they'd be very helpful. |
Short term maybe, but not in the big picture.
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RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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4OnTheFloor
Star Player
Joined: 20 Feb 2004
Posts: 1148
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| Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2006 10:41 am Post subject: |
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| LAL25 wrote: | | Guys, Frye is not that good. |
Your right he's not, but he's perfect for the triangle offense. That's the only reason why i could see us trying to make a deal for him. |
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TACH
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Joined: 03 Nov 2005
Posts: 28461
Location: Chillin on the Delaware.. from the Jersey Side
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| Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2006 10:54 am Post subject: |
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| Dennis_D wrote: | | The Dagger wrote: | | If this is true Kupchak is going to lose respect around the league. You don't offer day old trash for a diamond in the rough. This is disrespectful and a waste of time. I really hope this is not true. Can Kupchak be that dumb? No wonder his food is spoiling, he can't close anything. |
Malik Rose for Nazr Mohammed.
Any GM who will take a past-his-prime, overpaid, undersized PF for a young C with potential may take any damn trade. |
Could be more true... Mohammed comes off the books at the end of the season Rose... nevermind.. LOL... (performance wise, it's a wash)...
Whenever I get down on Mitch, I think of the Knicks and Zeke,.. and suddenly the clouds part, and there is sunshine... Zeke is the WORST!!! |
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Redlight20
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Posts: 280
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| Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2006 11:17 am Post subject: |
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LMAOOO
what an offer.. |
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DaggerInTheHeart
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Joined: 06 Feb 2006
Posts: 1459
Location: Sunshine State
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| Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2006 11:25 am Post subject: |
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Can isiah be this stupid if he accepts this trade?  |
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Heartburn
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Posts: 6347
Location: The Titanic that is the USA
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| Posted: Fri Feb 10, 2006 11:27 am Post subject: |
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Power 106 has no inside connection with the Lakers. None. I speak to a former member of the on-air staff at that station and I asked about whether J. Garcia has any credibility with respect to rumors and he said absolutely NO.
Chances are J. Garcia heard a rumor about Frye and picked out two Laker players who are likely trade candidates.
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You are under no obligation to remain the same person you were a year ago, a month ago, or even a day ago. You are here to create yourself, continuously. - Richard Feynman |
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