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Gatekeeper
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 Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2016 11:17 pm Post subject: Time to Get Our Hands Dirty |
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With D'lo and Nick out it's time to stop relying on the offensive production as a crutch and play some scrappy feisty Laker D. Even if we end up on the short end most nights, I'd much rather see the team start to establish some sort of identity without the ball, so when we're back at full strength, we'll be an even tougher team to contend with night in night out.
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george w kush
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| Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2016 11:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Sure thing, and we can also use Huertas and Calderdon as defensive stoppers. |
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Yong
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| Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2016 11:50 pm Post subject: |
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| george w kush wrote: | | Sure thing, and we can also use Huertas and Calderdon as defensive stoppers. |
Name a similarity between Huertas and Frodo
- they both have the ability to disappear while getting attacked |
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Omar Little
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| Posted: Tue Nov 29, 2016 11:57 pm Post subject: Re: Time to Get Our Hands Dirty |
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| Gatekeeper wrote: | | With D'lo and Nick out it's time to stop relying on the offensive production as a crutch and play some scrappy feisty Laker D. Even if we end up on the short end most nights, I'd much rather see the team start to establish some sort of identity without the ball, so when we're back at full strength, we'll be an even tougher team to contend with night in night out. |
Right, because Luke has had the defense in the off position, and all he has to do is flip the switch to on.
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numero-ocho
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| Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2016 7:22 am Post subject: |
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| Yong wrote: | | george w kush wrote: | | Sure thing, and we can also use Huertas and Calderdon as defensive stoppers. |
Name a similarity between Huertas and Frodo
- they both have the ability to disappear while getting attacked |
 
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Dr. Funkbot
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| Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2016 8:53 am Post subject: |
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| numero-ocho wrote: | | Yong wrote: | | george w kush wrote: | | Sure thing, and we can also use Huertas and Calderdon as defensive stoppers. |
Name a similarity between Huertas and Frodo
- they both have the ability to disappear while getting attacked |
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Yup, and when he slips the ring on the firey eyes of David Stern peer into his soul.
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Gatekeeper
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| Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2016 8:56 am Post subject: Re: Time to Get Our Hands Dirty |
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| Omar Little wrote: | | Gatekeeper wrote: | | With D'lo and Nick out it's time to stop relying on the offensive production as a crutch and play some scrappy feisty Laker D. Even if we end up on the short end most nights, I'd much rather see the team start to establish some sort of identity without the ball, so when we're back at full strength, we'll be an even tougher team to contend with night in night out. |
Right, because Luke has had the defense in the off position, and all he has to do is flip the switch to on. |
So no hope for us then? Nothing to work on or improve the defense while clanking the 3 pt attempts. There is no on/off switch but certainly the mental approach to the game can/has to change.
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Bard207
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| Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2016 9:08 am Post subject: |
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With Russell and Young missing time, the minutes for Lou and Clarkson will be on the high side.
I don't know if either one is interested in establishing an identity as a strong defensive player. |
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KindCrippler2000
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| Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2016 9:10 am Post subject: |
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Aside from Nance and Ingram, this team does not have any defensive personnel. Deng was supposed to be the best defender, but it's clear he does not have much left in the tank. I talked about playing a guy like TRob out of position to ameliorate some of their defensive problems, but I doubt it happens. He's the best guard defender on the team and he's not even a guard.
The FO clearly did not have defense in their vocabulary this past off-season. If they did, they would have only kept one of Huertas and Calderon. Having both creates a redundancy problem. |
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Dr. Funkbot
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| Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2016 9:13 am Post subject: |
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In reality, no one thought Swaggy would even been on the team this season. Now JC is going to have to play 35-40 minutes per game to pick up the slack. He should be able to do it considering the fact that he is young and have a great motor.
Get well soon Uncle P!
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Gatekeeper
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| Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2016 9:29 am Post subject: |
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It's a young (newer) team, this coaching staff has its work cut out for them to try and get the guys to buy in to a new system (including defense). I get that coaching defense (especially in a system) is one of the last things to teach a young group, but with our suddenly limited offensive capabilities I feel that now is a good time to put the focus on the other end of the floor and teach good habits that these guys can carry forward.
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Dr. Funkbot
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| Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2016 9:31 am Post subject: |
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| Gatekeeper wrote: | | It's a young (newer) team, this coaching staff has its work cut out for them to try and get the guys to buy in to a new system (including defense). I get that coaching defense (especially in a system) is one of the last things to teach a young group, but with our suddenly limited offensive capabilities I feel that now is a good time to put the focus on the other end of the floor and teach good habits that these guys can carry forward. |
I think that Luke HAS been preaching and teaching D the whole season. You can see the second unit that has been consistent without injuries actually plays very good D. They talk, switch, cover. The fist unit is now a total mess because of their personnel and lately the injuries.
It's still a young team and it is very early in the season with a TOUGH schedule. The D will improve over time.
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Treble Clef
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| Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2016 11:27 am Post subject: Re: Time to Get Our Hands Dirty |
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| Gatekeeper wrote: | | With D'lo and Nick out it's time to stop relying on the offensive production as a crutch and play some scrappy feisty Laker D. Even if we end up on the short end most nights, I'd much rather see the team start to establish some sort of identity without the ball, so when we're back at full strength, we'll be an even tougher team to contend with night in night out. |
If someone would have told me that through 20 games, these guys would be playing zero defense and the offense would have been centered around contested perimeter shots by nick, Lou, D'Angelo, and Jordan, I would have predicted 2-3 wins tops. It is amazing how successful they have been. |
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Tiez
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| Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2016 11:39 am Post subject: |
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| Gatekeeper wrote: | | It's a young (newer) team, this coaching staff has its work cut out for them to try and get the guys to buy in to a new system (including defense). I get that coaching defense (especially in a system) is one of the last things to teach a young group, but with our suddenly limited offensive capabilities I feel that now is a good time to put the focus on the other end of the floor and teach good habits that these guys can carry forward. |
Defense isn't the last thing you teach a young group, it's the first thing... But of you have to learn offensive minded players to play defense, that takes time. You just can't switch a certain mindset on or off. It's easy to say that guys have to make extra effort, but if it's not in their heart and soul to chase down their man, or to dive after a loose ball, than it's hard to make them. |
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Gatekeeper
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| Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2016 12:16 pm Post subject: Re: Time to Get Our Hands Dirty |
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| Treble Clef wrote: | | Gatekeeper wrote: | | With D'lo and Nick out it's time to stop relying on the offensive production as a crutch and play some scrappy feisty Laker D. Even if we end up on the short end most nights, I'd much rather see the team start to establish some sort of identity without the ball, so when we're back at full strength, we'll be an even tougher team to contend with night in night out. |
If someone would have told me that through 20 games, these guys would be playing zero defense and the offense would have been centered around contested perimeter shots by nick, Lou, D'Angelo, and Jordan, I would have predicted 2-3 wins tops. It is amazing how successful they have been. |
It's not that the team plays ZERO defense and jacks up threes unconsciously, but that the defense has gotten worse since the beginning of the season. The Drtg the past 10 games have been hovering around 110 (bottom 3), the team gives up the most field goals within 5 feet of the basket, recovers loose balls at the second lowest rate, and is in the bottom five in charges drawn.
Injuries to our best shooters has exacerbated the situation, no doubt, but the regression in defensive intensity is worrisome.
Just listen to Luke at the end of the last game.
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Treble Clef
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| Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2016 12:35 pm Post subject: Re: Time to Get Our Hands Dirty |
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| Gatekeeper wrote: | | Treble Clef wrote: | | Gatekeeper wrote: | | With D'lo and Nick out it's time to stop relying on the offensive production as a crutch and play some scrappy feisty Laker D. Even if we end up on the short end most nights, I'd much rather see the team start to establish some sort of identity without the ball, so when we're back at full strength, we'll be an even tougher team to contend with night in night out. |
If someone would have told me that through 20 games, these guys would be playing zero defense and the offense would have been centered around contested perimeter shots by nick, Lou, D'Angelo, and Jordan, I would have predicted 2-3 wins tops. It is amazing how successful they have been. |
It's not that the team plays ZERO defense and jacks up threes unconsciously, but that the defense has gotten worse since the beginning of the season. The Drtg the past 10 games have been hovering around 110 (bottom 3), the team gives up the most field goals within 5 feet of the basket, recovers loose balls at the second lowest rate, and is in the bottom five in charges drawn.
Injuries to our best shooters has exacerbated the situation, no doubt, but the regression in defensive intensity is worrisome.
Just listen to Luke at the end of the last game. |
I think a lot of that is averages catching up to them. They haven't played good defense all year but in the first few weeks, they could always count on the opponents missing open shots all game long. Statistically they were elite at defending against the three ball but they were not actually defending those shots at all. |
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KobeDunk
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| Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2016 12:37 pm Post subject: |
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| they should always be expected to bring it on defense, not only when we have injuries |
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KindCrippler2000
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Joined: 02 May 2003
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| Posted: Wed Nov 30, 2016 1:18 pm Post subject: Re: Time to Get Our Hands Dirty |
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| Treble Clef wrote: | | Gatekeeper wrote: | | Treble Clef wrote: | | Gatekeeper wrote: | | With D'lo and Nick out it's time to stop relying on the offensive production as a crutch and play some scrappy feisty Laker D. Even if we end up on the short end most nights, I'd much rather see the team start to establish some sort of identity without the ball, so when we're back at full strength, we'll be an even tougher team to contend with night in night out. |
If someone would have told me that through 20 games, these guys would be playing zero defense and the offense would have been centered around contested perimeter shots by nick, Lou, D'Angelo, and Jordan, I would have predicted 2-3 wins tops. It is amazing how successful they have been. |
It's not that the team plays ZERO defense and jacks up threes unconsciously, but that the defense has gotten worse since the beginning of the season. The Drtg the past 10 games have been hovering around 110 (bottom 3), the team gives up the most field goals within 5 feet of the basket, recovers loose balls at the second lowest rate, and is in the bottom five in charges drawn.
Injuries to our best shooters has exacerbated the situation, no doubt, but the regression in defensive intensity is worrisome.
Just listen to Luke at the end of the last game. |
I think a lot of that is averages catching up to them. They haven't played good defense all year but in the first few weeks, they could always count on the opponents missing open shots all game long. Statistically they were elite at defending against the three ball but they were not actually defending those shots at all. |
It's just players normalizing to the mean IMO. It's hard to sustain wins with just offense alone. I actually discussed why this was unsustainable in my defensive rankings thread. Lakers can't continue to win without having some amount of success on the defensive end. Right now, they are last or next to last in most of the important defensive categories (rim protection, opponent FG%, opponent points in paint, etc). Until they get the proper defensive personnel, they will likely hover around that 8th seed, but not get any closer to it.
Even though they had more success, Toronto actually had a similar trajectory 2 seasons ago. Top 5 offensive team, but bottom of the barrel defensively. They relied on their offense up until another catastrophe 1st round collapse in the playoffs. Everything they accomplished in the regular season was fools gold, as their system was predicated only on outscoring teams. After that upset in the playoffs, it was evident Masai needed to make changes and he did -- out goes Lou, Vasquez, enter a slew of defensive personnel (Corey Joseph, DeMarre Carroll, Bismack Biyombo) and they get to around top 10 defensively.
Obviously the Lakers have a tougher go around since they play in the West and have injuries to deal with, but they have all the makings of that 14-15 Raptors squad. I don't like it tbh. I wish they invested in some defensive personnel. |
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Gatekeeper
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splashmtn
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Joined: 30 Aug 2016
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| Posted: Thu Dec 01, 2016 3:13 pm Post subject: Re: Time to Get Our Hands Dirty |
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| Gatekeeper wrote: | | With D'lo and Nick out it's time to stop relying on the offensive production as a crutch and play some scrappy feisty Laker D. Even if we end up on the short end most nights, I'd much rather see the team start to establish some sort of identity without the ball, so when we're back at full strength, we'll be an even tougher team to contend with night in night out. |
you asked and you shall receive. The chicago game called out by Gatekeeper |
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splashmtn
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| Posted: Thu Dec 01, 2016 3:16 pm Post subject: Re: Time to Get Our Hands Dirty |
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| KindCrippler2000 wrote: | | Treble Clef wrote: | | Gatekeeper wrote: | | Treble Clef wrote: | | Gatekeeper wrote: | | With D'lo and Nick out it's time to stop relying on the offensive production as a crutch and play some scrappy feisty Laker D. Even if we end up on the short end most nights, I'd much rather see the team start to establish some sort of identity without the ball, so when we're back at full strength, we'll be an even tougher team to contend with night in night out. |
If someone would have told me that through 20 games, these guys would be playing zero defense and the offense would have been centered around contested perimeter shots by nick, Lou, D'Angelo, and Jordan, I would have predicted 2-3 wins tops. It is amazing how successful they have been. |
It's not that the team plays ZERO defense and jacks up threes unconsciously, but that the defense has gotten worse since the beginning of the season. The Drtg the past 10 games have been hovering around 110 (bottom 3), the team gives up the most field goals within 5 feet of the basket, recovers loose balls at the second lowest rate, and is in the bottom five in charges drawn.
Injuries to our best shooters has exacerbated the situation, no doubt, but the regression in defensive intensity is worrisome.
Just listen to Luke at the end of the last game. |
I think a lot of that is averages catching up to them. They haven't played good defense all year but in the first few weeks, they could always count on the opponents missing open shots all game long. Statistically they were elite at defending against the three ball but they were not actually defending those shots at all. |
It's just players normalizing to the mean IMO. It's hard to sustain wins with just offense alone. I actually discussed why this was unsustainable in my defensive rankings thread. Lakers can't continue to win without having some amount of success on the defensive end. Right now, they are last or next to last in most of the important defensive categories (rim protection, opponent FG%, opponent points in paint, etc). Until they get the proper defensive personnel, they will likely hover around that 8th seed, but not get any closer to it.
Even though they had more success, Toronto actually had a similar trajectory 2 seasons ago. Top 5 offensive team, but bottom of the barrel defensively. They relied on their offense up until another catastrophe 1st round collapse in the playoffs. Everything they accomplished in the regular season was fools gold, as their system was predicated only on outscoring teams. After that upset in the playoffs, it was evident Masai needed to make changes and he did -- out goes Lou, Vasquez, enter a slew of defensive personnel (Corey Joseph, DeMarre Carroll, Bismack Biyombo) and they get to around top 10 defensively.
Obviously the Lakers have a tougher go around since they play in the West and have injuries to deal with, but they have all the makings of that 14-15 Raptors squad. I don't like it tbh. I wish they invested in some defensive personnel. |
easy to say but who did you want them to invest in that was able to be invested in this past summer? And remember you should never invest in an "all defense, no offense" type of player unless you have great offensive players already in place(we dont. they are young and still learning.) |
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Treble Clef
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| Posted: Thu Dec 01, 2016 4:02 pm Post subject: |
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| Gatekeeper wrote: | | So Chicago missed some shots they usually make, but I liked what I saw tonight. 24 TOVs and 13 missed FTAs and still we prevail. More of the same defense on Friday, hopefully. Go Lakeshow! |
Packing the paint with a zone defense worked against the Bulls but I don't know if I would call for it against Toronto. Maybe Memphis. |
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22
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Joined: 05 Apr 2013
Posts: 17063
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| Posted: Thu Dec 01, 2016 4:26 pm Post subject: Re: Time to Get Our Hands Dirty |
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| KindCrippler2000 wrote: | | Treble Clef wrote: | | Gatekeeper wrote: | | Treble Clef wrote: | | Gatekeeper wrote: | | With D'lo and Nick out it's time to stop relying on the offensive production as a crutch and play some scrappy feisty Laker D. Even if we end up on the short end most nights, I'd much rather see the team start to establish some sort of identity without the ball, so when we're back at full strength, we'll be an even tougher team to contend with night in night out. |
If someone would have told me that through 20 games, these guys would be playing zero defense and the offense would have been centered around contested perimeter shots by nick, Lou, D'Angelo, and Jordan, I would have predicted 2-3 wins tops. It is amazing how successful they have been. |
It's not that the team plays ZERO defense and jacks up threes unconsciously, but that the defense has gotten worse since the beginning of the season. The Drtg the past 10 games have been hovering around 110 (bottom 3), the team gives up the most field goals within 5 feet of the basket, recovers loose balls at the second lowest rate, and is in the bottom five in charges drawn.
Injuries to our best shooters has exacerbated the situation, no doubt, but the regression in defensive intensity is worrisome.
Just listen to Luke at the end of the last game. |
I think a lot of that is averages catching up to them. They haven't played good defense all year but in the first few weeks, they could always count on the opponents missing open shots all game long. Statistically they were elite at defending against the three ball but they were not actually defending those shots at all. |
It's just players normalizing to the mean IMO. It's hard to sustain wins with just offense alone. I actually discussed why this was unsustainable in my defensive rankings thread. Lakers can't continue to win without having some amount of success on the defensive end. Right now, they are last or next to last in most of the important defensive categories (rim protection, opponent FG%, opponent points in paint, etc). Until they get the proper defensive personnel, they will likely hover around that 8th seed, but not get any closer to it.
Even though they had more success, Toronto actually had a similar trajectory 2 seasons ago. Top 5 offensive team, but bottom of the barrel defensively. They relied on their offense up until another catastrophe 1st round collapse in the playoffs. Everything they accomplished in the regular season was fools gold, as their system was predicated only on outscoring teams. After that upset in the playoffs, it was evident Masai needed to make changes and he did -- out goes Lou, Vasquez, enter a slew of defensive personnel (Corey Joseph, DeMarre Carroll, Bismack Biyombo) and they get to around top 10 defensively.
Obviously the Lakers have a tougher go around since they play in the West and have injuries to deal with, but they have all the makings of that 14-15 Raptors squad. I don't like it tbh. I wish they invested in some defensive personnel. |
that's not apples to apples KC2K.
This team is young as hell and just learning what they can do both offensively and defensively. Give it time  |
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Gatekeeper
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| Posted: Thu Dec 01, 2016 4:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Treble Clef wrote: | | Gatekeeper wrote: | | So Chicago missed some shots they usually make, but I liked what I saw tonight. 24 TOVs and 13 missed FTAs and still we prevail. More of the same defense on Friday, hopefully. Go Lakeshow! |
Packing the paint with a zone defense worked against the Bulls but I don't know if I would call for it against Toronto. Maybe Memphis. |
It was more about concentrated effort and energy than running zone. We got to more loose balls and the positioning for rebounds was excellent. That small ball lineup of Randle/Nance/Lou/Ingram/Clarkson worked pretty well.
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Treble Clef
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| Posted: Fri Dec 02, 2016 2:36 pm Post subject: |
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| Gatekeeper wrote: | | Treble Clef wrote: | | Gatekeeper wrote: | | So Chicago missed some shots they usually make, but I liked what I saw tonight. 24 TOVs and 13 missed FTAs and still we prevail. More of the same defense on Friday, hopefully. Go Lakeshow! |
Packing the paint with a zone defense worked against the Bulls but I don't know if I would call for it against Toronto. Maybe Memphis. |
It was more about concentrated effort and energy than running zone. We got to more loose balls and the positioning for rebounds was excellent. That small ball lineup of Randle/Nance/Lou/Ingram/Clarkson worked pretty well. |
I thought playing zone kept them in good rebounding position at all times and prevented the communication errors they tend to have on switches. In a zone, defense is amazing if the other team can't make open shots. |
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