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BigGameHames
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2017 11:51 am    Post subject:

Steve007 wrote:
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^I think this is huge if they want a #1 seed though. Imagine if they were 2-0 against Oregon and Arizona right now. Those were the two most important conference games so far and they dropped both of them.

Getting that #1 seed in March is so huge. These losses can easily come back to haunt them and now they will have to play even better to get that #1 seed.


Those losses really hurt their chances in conference but I don't see the importance in getting a 1 seed over a 2 or 3 seed. Minor difference IMO


Even after the win over Oregon the selection committee has UCLA as a 4th seed in the East Region and 15th overall. Wow. They could go out quickly with that seeding and the chances of making it past the third game look slim.

http://www.ncaa.com/news/basketball-men/bracket-beat/2017-02-11/march-madness-top-16-seeds-revealed-first-ever-season


I wouldn't say the chances of getting past the 3rd game look slim in that situation but a 4 seed in the east would be extremely tough to overcome. That's a completely unfair seeding
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Steve007
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2017 1:11 pm    Post subject:

Even if you give UCLA a 50/50 shot at beating the 1 seed, there is also a chance UCLA loses in one of the first 2 rounds. They could lose to a 5 seed in the second game. Even in the first game 4 seeds will lose a little more than 1 out of 5 times. So they make the Elite 8 well below 50% of the time with that seeding.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 12, 2017 4:03 pm    Post subject:

If UCLA only loses 1 more game in the regular season (say, at Arizona) and then gets to the conference final, they are not going to be a 4 seed. 3 at worst. I'm hoping for a conference title so that they could get the 2 in the West, because I want to be matched up with Gonzaga as the 1 in the West. I think they are vulnerable, as usual, come tournament time.
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2017 8:26 am    Post subject:

ESPNs bracketology has become a complete joke. UCLA is #5 in the country with 3 losses and they have them as the #4 seed in the East. UNC has 5 losses and is the #1 seed in the East. There are a bunch of other ridiculous rankings on there. That's obviously not how things will actually shape up. How does ESPNs bracketology guys get away with this every year? They are always so wrong and show a blatant east coast bias.
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Steve007
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2017 4:05 pm    Post subject:

BigGameHames wrote:
ESPNs bracketology has become a complete joke. UCLA is #5 in the country with 3 losses and they have them as the #4 seed in the East. UNC has 5 losses and is the #1 seed in the East. There are a bunch of other ridiculous rankings on there. That's obviously not how things will actually shape up. How does ESPNs bracketology guys get away with this every year? They are always so wrong and show a blatant east coast bias.


Yeah I agree. I read that they are getting hammered for strength of schedule. But Gonzaga is #1 right now and who have they played since conference play began? They do have a couple of really big nonconference wins but give UCLA their conference schedule and UCLA would be a #1 right now IMO (both in the polls and with the tournament seeding). Would be really interesting where Gonzaga would end up in the Pac-12 if they played UCLA's conference schedule.

I guess UCLA has to go almost undefeated to get a 3 seed. The Pac-12 isn't getting much respect.

I was disappointed Oregon came back to beat Cal yesterday. Oregon dropping in the standings would really help because they are one of the teams that is seeded higher than UCLA in the brackets.
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BigGameHames
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2017 6:03 pm    Post subject:

Steve007 wrote:
BigGameHames wrote:
ESPNs bracketology has become a complete joke. UCLA is #5 in the country with 3 losses and they have them as the #4 seed in the East. UNC has 5 losses and is the #1 seed in the East. There are a bunch of other ridiculous rankings on there. That's obviously not how things will actually shape up. How does ESPNs bracketology guys get away with this every year? They are always so wrong and show a blatant east coast bias.


Yeah I agree. I read that they are getting hammered for strength of schedule. But Gonzaga is #1 right now and who have they played since conference play began? They do have a couple of really big nonconference wins but give UCLA their conference schedule and UCLA would be a #1 right now IMO (both in the polls and with the tournament seeding). Would be really interesting where Gonzaga would end up in the Pac-12 if they played UCLA's conference schedule.

I guess UCLA has to go almost undefeated to get a 3 seed. The Pac-12 isn't getting much respect.

I was disappointed Oregon came back to beat Cal yesterday. Oregon dropping in the standings would really help because they are one of the teams that is seeded higher than UCLA in the brackets.


The Pac 12 will get more respect on the bracket then the bracketology guys do. It always happens like that so I'm not too worried but it just amazes me how bad they are. Whether they are trying to predict what it will look like or just giving their opinion it's bad either way. Pac 12 tournament champ will be a 1 seed, the other two will get 2 or 3.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 25, 2017 7:34 pm    Post subject:

Watching the Bruins vs Arizona ESPN telecast, a report quoted Lavar Ball as saying Lonzo will only play for the Lakers. Has anyone heard that? Is it possible to manipulate things at all? Last I recall, once drafted by a team, they own your rights forever. I know it's unrealistic to think it would work like that but I like the attempted manipulation. He'd make the Lakers better right now.
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Steve007
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 25, 2017 7:39 pm    Post subject:

A win on the road at Arizona. A 7 game winning streak with two of those wins against teams ranked in the top 6 in the country. Not bad for a 4 seed.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 25, 2017 8:01 pm    Post subject:

lakersboy wrote:
Watching the Bruins vs Arizona ESPN telecast, a report quoted Lavar Ball as saying Lonzo will only play for the Lakers. Has anyone heard that? Is it possible to manipulate things at all? Last I recall, once drafted by a team, they own your rights forever. I know it's unrealistic to think it would work like that but I like the attempted manipulation. He'd make the Lakers better right now.


It's the same ol bluff. He'll play for whoever drafts him rather than wait it out. While he may want to play for the Lakers, either we end up with a top 3 pick or he ends up elsewhere. He can tank his own stock by refusing workouts but unlikely.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 25, 2017 8:36 pm    Post subject:

Current CBA makes it very difficult for players on rookie contracts to leave the teams they are drafted on....the only players who truly can test the market are superstars and they probably put lots of years on the team that they were drafted on before they get sick of their situation. Whether Lonzo Ball becomes a superstar in the NBA remains to be seen.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 25, 2017 9:31 pm    Post subject:

Wow Gonzaga loses! The selection commitee had them as the 4th number 1 seed. I wonder how far this loss drops them and how it impacts the Pac-12 teams.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 25, 2017 9:48 pm    Post subject:

I don't think they drop from #1.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 26, 2017 12:09 am    Post subject:

What a tremendous game tonight between two great teams.

I have been interested in this guy Allonzo Trier for Arizona for awhile, clearly a great player who had a fantastic performance tonight.

In doing that I stumbled across a great article written in 2009 (yes) about him and the AAU culture in the USA that many think is not great for the sport in general.

To his credit, he is making it big time at Arizona and I am glad he didn't get swallowed up. And he earned it when you read about his work ethic.

I warn you now, this is a long read:

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/22/magazine/22basketball-t.html?_r=0
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Steve007
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 26, 2017 12:18 am    Post subject:

lakersken80 wrote:
I don't think they drop from #1.


You don't think this drops them at all? They were barely a #1 seed when they were undefeated. Would be interesting if you're right.
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BigGameHames
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 26, 2017 9:51 am    Post subject:

Steve007 wrote:
A win on the road at Arizona. A 7 game winning streak with two of those wins against teams ranked in the top 6 in the country. Not bad for a 4 seed.


Lunardi(bracketology guy) was just on sportscenter and said this moves them up to a 3 he further proved he doesn't deserve his job when he said UCLA lost their only encounter with Oregon. Dude doesn't even know what's happening in the Pac 12 but a 5 loss UNC team is better than any Pac 12 team
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 26, 2017 12:33 pm    Post subject:

Steve007 wrote:
lakersken80 wrote:
I don't think they drop from #1.


You don't think this drops them at all? They were barely a #1 seed when they were undefeated. Would be interesting if you're right.


My opinion, but I don't think one loss drops them off from the top seed considering how many losses the next closest team has.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 26, 2017 3:42 pm    Post subject:

BigGameHames wrote:
Steve007 wrote:
BigGameHames wrote:
ESPNs bracketology has become a complete joke. UCLA is #5 in the country with 3 losses and they have them as the #4 seed in the East. UNC has 5 losses and is the #1 seed in the East. There are a bunch of other ridiculous rankings on there. That's obviously not how things will actually shape up. How does ESPNs bracketology guys get away with this every year? They are always so wrong and show a blatant east coast bias.


Yeah I agree. I read that they are getting hammered for strength of schedule. But Gonzaga is #1 right now and who have they played since conference play began? They do have a couple of really big nonconference wins but give UCLA their conference schedule and UCLA would be a #1 right now IMO (both in the polls and with the tournament seeding). Would be really interesting where Gonzaga would end up in the Pac-12 if they played UCLA's conference schedule.

I guess UCLA has to go almost undefeated to get a 3 seed. The Pac-12 isn't getting much respect.

I was disappointed Oregon came back to beat Cal yesterday. Oregon dropping in the standings would really help because they are one of the teams that is seeded higher than UCLA in the brackets.


The Pac 12 will get more respect on the bracket then the bracketology guys do. It always happens like that so I'm not too worried but it just amazes me how bad they are. Whether they are trying to predict what it will look like or just giving their opinion it's bad either way. Pac 12 tournament champ will be a 1 seed, the other two will get 2 or 3.

My guess is winner gets a 2 losers get 3 and 4
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BigGameHames
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 26, 2017 5:48 pm    Post subject:

Raijin wrote:
BigGameHames wrote:
Steve007 wrote:
BigGameHames wrote:
ESPNs bracketology has become a complete joke. UCLA is #5 in the country with 3 losses and they have them as the #4 seed in the East. UNC has 5 losses and is the #1 seed in the East. There are a bunch of other ridiculous rankings on there. That's obviously not how things will actually shape up. How does ESPNs bracketology guys get away with this every year? They are always so wrong and show a blatant east coast bias.


Yeah I agree. I read that they are getting hammered for strength of schedule. But Gonzaga is #1 right now and who have they played since conference play began? They do have a couple of really big nonconference wins but give UCLA their conference schedule and UCLA would be a #1 right now IMO (both in the polls and with the tournament seeding). Would be really interesting where Gonzaga would end up in the Pac-12 if they played UCLA's conference schedule.

I guess UCLA has to go almost undefeated to get a 3 seed. The Pac-12 isn't getting much respect.

I was disappointed Oregon came back to beat Cal yesterday. Oregon dropping in the standings would really help because they are one of the teams that is seeded higher than UCLA in the brackets.


The Pac 12 will get more respect on the bracket then the bracketology guys do. It always happens like that so I'm not too worried but it just amazes me how bad they are. Whether they are trying to predict what it will look like or just giving their opinion it's bad either way. Pac 12 tournament champ will be a 1 seed, the other two will get 2 or 3.

My guess is winner gets a 2 losers get 3 and 4


That would be completely unjustified but if UCLA is the 2 in the West with Gonzaga as the 1, I'd be happy
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Steve007
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2017 2:09 am    Post subject:

UCLA is hurt by the Big 10 weakness. They beat Ohio State, Michigan, Nebraska, Kentucky and Texas A&M, only one of them at home. Normally that would not be a weak schedule. Should they be penalized for this?

I'm curious what UCLA's strength of schedule will look like if they make the final game of the Pac-12 tournament and play against Oregon and Arizona again. That should give it a significant boost.


Last edited by Steve007 on Mon Feb 27, 2017 2:25 am; edited 2 times in total
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2017 2:14 am    Post subject:

BigGameHames wrote:
Steve007 wrote:
A win on the road at Arizona. A 7 game winning streak with two of those wins against teams ranked in the top 6 in the country. Not bad for a 4 seed.


Lunardi(bracketology guy) was just on sportscenter and said this moves them up to a 3 he further proved he doesn't deserve his job when he said UCLA lost their only encounter with Oregon. Dude doesn't even know what's happening in the Pac 12 but a 5 loss UNC team is better than any Pac 12 team


Wow he actually forgot about the win against Oregon? What a joke. UCLA has beaten every team they played this season after getting revenge against Oregon, USC and Arizona.

Where would the team be with a loss at Arizona? A 5 seed?

Does UCLA have to go undefeated to get a 1 seed? I think a 2 seed is reasonable and anything below that is ridiculous.


Edit: ESPN has removed the video of him talking so I didn't get to see it, but I read a comment from a UCLA fan saying this:

Quote:
Second most clueless line of the interview: "We shouldn't count too much against the Zags losing and give too much credit to UCLA winning"


If he said that then wow.


Last edited by Steve007 on Mon Feb 27, 2017 2:42 am; edited 2 times in total
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2017 2:26 am    Post subject:

Saw this posted by a UCLA fan on another forum:

Quote:
UCLA is hurt in the RPI by preseason opponents that were very bad instead of merely bad. It's a distinction that's meaningless in practice but has a big effect on RPI.

UCLA is hurt in statistical rankings like KenPom and Sagarin because there've been a fair number of games where UCLA has won comfortably but not as convincingly as one would expect given how bad the teams are. The wins against Oregon St and WSU were never in doubt, but really they're bad enough that less than a 25 point margin is subpar. The performance against ASU this past week was pretty poor, but people aren't used to the reality of a double digit Pac-12 win that isn't impressive. UCLA beat San Diego by 20 - for perspective Gonzaga's wins against them were by 36 and 48. Wins by 15 and 14 against CSUN and Western Michigan are pretty underwhelming. The loss to USC was actually pretty bad.

Moreover, the same things are true of Arizona and Oregon. Arizona has gone 14-0 against the bottom 9 teams in the Pac-12 but usually by underwhelming margins, and they don't have any good non-conference wins either. Oregon's had four really close calls in addition to their loss to Colorado. Their best win out of conference is probably an overtime win against Tennessee. We like to think our wins against them are impressive, but the rankings consider those teams similarly overrated.

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Steve007
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2017 2:37 am    Post subject:

I still think UCLA deserves a 1 seed. I thought this was interesting and it shows why I think getting a 1 seed is so important (and why a 2 seed instead of a 3 is so important).

http://bracketodds.cs.illinois.edu/seedadv.html
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BigGameHames
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2017 8:59 am    Post subject:

Steve007 wrote:
BigGameHames wrote:
Steve007 wrote:
A win on the road at Arizona. A 7 game winning streak with two of those wins against teams ranked in the top 6 in the country. Not bad for a 4 seed.


Lunardi(bracketology guy) was just on sportscenter and said this moves them up to a 3 he further proved he doesn't deserve his job when he said UCLA lost their only encounter with Oregon. Dude doesn't even know what's happening in the Pac 12 but a 5 loss UNC team is better than any Pac 12 team


Wow he actually forgot about the win against Oregon? What a joke. UCLA has beaten every team they played this season after getting revenge against Oregon, USC and Arizona.

Where would the team be with a loss at Arizona? A 5 seed?

Does UCLA have to go undefeated to get a 1 seed? I think a 2 seed is reasonable and anything below that is ridiculous.


Edit: ESPN has removed the video of him talking so I didn't get to see it, but I read a comment from a UCLA fan saying this:

Quote:
Second most clueless line of the interview: "We shouldn't count too much against the Zags losing and give too much credit to UCLA winning"


If he said that then wow.


Yes he said that as well. I'm pretty sure they are the only team to win @Arizona this year but he doesn't think it's worth much. This guy amazes me.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2017 6:14 pm    Post subject:

^Arizona won 21 in a row at home and had won 70 out of its last 71 home games.

North Carolina goes down and only scored 43 points. This is a 1 seed and UCLA is a 3 seed? They still have to play Duke this week.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 27, 2017 10:52 pm    Post subject:

Steve007 wrote:
I still think UCLA deserves a 1 seed. I thought this was interesting and it shows why I think getting a 1 seed is so important (and why a 2 seed instead of a 3 is so important).

http://bracketodds.cs.illinois.edu/seedadv.html


UCLA moves up to #3 in AP Top 25. Gonzaga drops to #4.
Both would be #1's if the rankings stayed as they were.
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