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Lakerpark
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Joined: 09 Nov 2002
Posts: 2117
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 Posted: Mon Dec 05, 2016 9:13 am Post subject: Lakers need shooters |
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First of all, I am partial to good shooters...deadeyed, marksmen, pure shooters....
Why is it that the Lakers almost never have great shooters? They have had their share of low percentage gunners but no deadeyed pure shooters.
It seems that game after game, they play against teams that have a red hot shooter. I guy who can hit a wide open shot (especially a 3 pointer).
Just recently we saw, Galloway and Daniels....where did these guys come from? Were they high draft picks? CBA or D League guys? There was another guy early in the season or in the pre season (whose name I forget) came in off the bench and hit a bunch of three pointers against the Lakers.
Look at the crap the Lakers call or have called shooters: Ryan Kelly? lol
Clarkson is disappointing me as a shooter. After seeing those off season videos I thought he learned how to shoot. Now all JC can do is drive to the basket and is looking afraid to shoot.
And what has happened to Brandon Ingram's shot?
I liked GLock's ability to shoot and they gave up on him.
Penberthy was not great.
Coby Karl was nothing.
Brad Holland never fulfilled his potential
Meeks was pretty good.
DLo is improving.
Clarkson is very disappointing.
I believe Nick Young is pretty good...maybe more a streak shooter than a pure shooter.
Do the Lakers think that a great shooter is made and not born?
I believe you can improve someone's form/fundamentals and improve their shooting percentage somewhat, but they will never be a lights out shooter.
Korver
McDermott
Hield
Klay
The last great shooters the Lakers had:
Goodrich
Brian Winters
Cazzie Russell
Glen Rice?
Sorry, my thoughts are all jumbled and not well composed...but you get my drift.
Thanks. |
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yinoma2001
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Joined: 19 Jun 2010
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| Posted: Mon Dec 05, 2016 9:21 am Post subject: |
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2 of our better shooters are out with injuries. That's when we'll get our shooters back.
I think in due time, DLO will be our best shooter.
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Dr. Funkbot
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Joined: 24 Sep 2001
Posts: 8188
Location: Eagle Rock
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| Posted: Mon Dec 05, 2016 9:32 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | 2 of our better shooters are out with injuries. That's when we'll get our shooters back.
I think in due time, DLO will be our best shooter. |
You beat me to it. Yes, our 2 best shooters are out with injuries. We will get better when they return.
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Purp 32
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Joined: 12 Jul 2014
Posts: 2154
Location: Inglewood, CA
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| Posted: Mon Dec 05, 2016 9:36 am Post subject: |
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| I agree with what's already been said - we'll get our two best shooters once Russell & Young return. With that said, I would explore maybe moving Black for a 3 point specialist, if the deal is out there. Him and Robinson are a little redundant at this point. |
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IBWriter
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Joined: 16 Feb 2016
Posts: 136
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| Posted: Mon Dec 05, 2016 9:36 am Post subject: |
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| If anything, we need rim protection. |
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ibitegirls
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Joined: 29 Dec 2011
Posts: 4204
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| Posted: Mon Dec 05, 2016 9:40 am Post subject: |
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| i'd like to think the coaching staff is prioritizing defense much more these days. we are usually solid on offensive end, at least when guys like nick/russ are healthy |
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LakersRGolden
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Joined: 13 Jan 2002
Posts: 7922
Location: Lake Forest
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| Posted: Mon Dec 05, 2016 9:49 am Post subject: |
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| Our perimeter D is making guys look like shooting gods. It's a combination of green light + no D + them getting hot. There's a reason these performances are "career nights." It's not like they do it all the time. |
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Fracture
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Joined: 01 Feb 2005
Posts: 9318
Location: Planet Terror
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| Posted: Mon Dec 05, 2016 9:53 am Post subject: |
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| Lakers need a defense. Offense isn't a problem when healthy. Defense is still trash. |
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cathy78
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Joined: 21 Jan 2013
Posts: 1415
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| Posted: Mon Dec 05, 2016 9:55 am Post subject: |
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| You guys are never happy with what we have. |
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Dr. Funkbot
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| Posted: Mon Dec 05, 2016 9:59 am Post subject: |
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| Luvi wrote: | | If anything, we need rim protection. |
It will always been an issue with the small ball lineups. We have rim protection with Mozzer, but he usually only plays 20 mins a game. But the tradeoff is Randle and Nance are super fast and can switch out onto guards.
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KindCrippler2000
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Joined: 02 May 2003
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| Posted: Mon Dec 05, 2016 10:29 am Post subject: |
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| Dr. Funkbot wrote: | | Luvi wrote: | | If anything, we need rim protection. |
It will always been an issue with the small ball lineups. We have rim protection with Mozzer, but he usually only plays 20 mins a game. But the tradeoff is Randle and Nance are super fast and can switch out onto guards. |
Mozgov is good with using his size to block off players, but rim protector he is not. The closest thing to a rim protector on the active roster is Tarik Black, as he averages a dismal 1.4 bpg per 36. To put this in perspective, the Rockets, a team not known for their defense, have 4 guys with the same or higher per 36 bpg. Lakers aren't just severely lacking in rim protection -- they are ranked last in the league in it (see here). They need to shore up many defensive categories if they want a chance at grabbing that 8th seed. |
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venturalakersfan
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Joined: 14 Apr 2001
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Location: The Gold Coast
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| Posted: Mon Dec 05, 2016 10:36 am Post subject: |
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| KindCrippler2000 wrote: | | Dr. Funkbot wrote: | | Luvi wrote: | | If anything, we need rim protection. |
It will always been an issue with the small ball lineups. We have rim protection with Mozzer, but he usually only plays 20 mins a game. But the tradeoff is Randle and Nance are super fast and can switch out onto guards. |
Mozgov is good with using his size to block off players, but rim protector he is not. The closest thing to a rim protector on the active roster is Tarik Black, as he averages a dismal 1.4 bpg per 36. To put this in perspective, the Rockets, a team not known for their defense, have 4 guys with the same or higher per 36 bpg. Lakers aren't just severely lacking in rim protection -- they are ranked last in the league in it (see here). They need to shore up many defensive categories if they want a chance at grabbing that 8th seed. |
That is rim protection.
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Treble Clef
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Joined: 20 Nov 2012
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| Posted: Mon Dec 05, 2016 10:38 am Post subject: |
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| Fracture wrote: | | Lakers need a defense. Offense isn't a problem when healthy. Defense is still trash. |
Yeah not an offense issue at all. They shoot better on contested threes than their opponents do when wide open. They are 0.3% better than opponents this season and if we counted converted free throws as made threes, that would add several more percentage points. |
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KindCrippler2000
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Joined: 02 May 2003
Posts: 15821
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| Posted: Mon Dec 05, 2016 10:42 am Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | KindCrippler2000 wrote: | | Dr. Funkbot wrote: | | Luvi wrote: | | If anything, we need rim protection. |
It will always been an issue with the small ball lineups. We have rim protection with Mozzer, but he usually only plays 20 mins a game. But the tradeoff is Randle and Nance are super fast and can switch out onto guards. |
Mozgov is good with using his size to block off players, but rim protector he is not. The closest thing to a rim protector on the active roster is Tarik Black, as he averages a dismal 1.4 bpg per 36. To put this in perspective, the Rockets, a team not known for their defense, have 4 guys with the same or higher per 36 bpg. Lakers aren't just severely lacking in rim protection -- they are ranked last in the league in it (see here). They need to shore up many defensive categories if they want a chance at grabbing that 8th seed. |
That is rim protection. |
That's positioning. There is no rim protection on the team. There is no one on the roster deterring players away from the paint, as the Lakers give up the most points in the paint to any team: https://www.teamrankings.com/nba/stat/opponent-points-in-paint-per-game |
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Mon Dec 05, 2016 10:46 am Post subject: |
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So blocking off players is not preventing them from getting to the rim? I disagree, and the issue isn't the lane helper, it is the secondary help. We stop the ball, but leave everyone else open.
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Cochese
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| Posted: Mon Dec 05, 2016 11:07 am Post subject: |
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Calderon is our best shooter, imo.
Young and Russell are good as well.
Lou is having a career year from three.
If anything I wish we had a big man that could shoot. Thats why i wanted Jon Leuer in free agency but oh well. |
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KindCrippler2000
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Joined: 02 May 2003
Posts: 15821
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| Posted: Mon Dec 05, 2016 11:09 am Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | So blocking off players is not preventing them from getting to the rim? I disagree, and the issue isn't the lane helper, it is the secondary help. We stop the ball, but leave everyone else open. |
Here's the data on rim protection: http://stats.nba.com/defensivehub/#!/tracking/team/rim/?sort=DEF_RIM_FG_PCT&dir=1
-opponents shoot a league high 60% at the rim vs the Lakers. That's 5% higher than the next worst team, the Mavs. The Lakers, by far, have the worst rim protection in the NBA and it's not even close. 
-Lakers defend 26.6 shots at the rim, making them close to the league worst at 25.6.
Possible reasons:
- Guards give up too much dribble penetration and our bigs aren't fast enough to react.
- Defensive schemes need to change, or maybe the wrong players are playing at the wrong time.
- Lakers don't really have the personnel right now to defend. There are only two players on the roster with positive DBPM. |
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Mon Dec 05, 2016 11:19 am Post subject: |
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So the problem really isn't Mozgov, it is the secondary defenders who are not rotating.
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Cochese
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| Posted: Mon Dec 05, 2016 11:20 am Post subject: |
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| KindCrippler2000 wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | So blocking off players is not preventing them from getting to the rim? I disagree, and the issue isn't the lane helper, it is the secondary help. We stop the ball, but leave everyone else open. |
Here's the data on rim protection: http://stats.nba.com/defensivehub/#!/tracking/team/rim/?sort=DEF_RIM_FG_PCT&dir=1
-opponents shoot a league high 60% at the rim vs the Lakers. That's 5% higher than the next worst team, the Mavs. The Lakers, by far, have the worst rim protection in the NBA and it's not even close.
-Lakers defend 26.6 shots at the rim, making them close to the league worst at 25.6.
Possible reasons:
- Guards give up too much dribble penetration and our bigs aren't fast enough to react.
- Defensive schemes need to change, or maybe the wrong players are playing at the wrong time.
- Lakers don't really have the personnel right now to defend. There are only two players on the roster with positive DBPM. |
From what i've seen we give up penetration and everytime Mozgov steps up to stop it they dump it off or lob it to Mozgov's man for an easy basket. Nobody ever helps when Mozgov steps up. I think its an effort/rotations thing as far as our interior defense is concerned. |
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TooMuchMajicBuss
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| Posted: Mon Dec 05, 2016 11:22 am Post subject: |
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Lakers need a healthy team, with Nance, DLO and Russell all able to play full tilt. Then we get our shooting back.
Lakers need a healthy team and some time to keep developing as a team in order to get more cohesive and have a better defense.
I'm not convinced another player is the answer just yet. |
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adkindo
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| Posted: Mon Dec 05, 2016 11:45 am Post subject: |
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| We just need our ok/good shooters to start making more shots....Ingram & Clarkson should be shooting much better than they have over the last 10 games. I do not think they stay cold for much longer. Russell is solid, and Swaggy is the best pure shooter on the team in my opinion...obviously the last two guys have been out injured. If you add in Lou and Calderon, I think we have enough guys on the roster to knock down shots. |
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KindCrippler2000
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| Posted: Mon Dec 05, 2016 11:53 am Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | So the problem really isn't Mozgov, it is the secondary defenders who are not rotating. |
Mozgov isn't the entire problem, but it would be inaccurate to say he isn't part of it. He's just not making a mark on the defensive end, which is why it would be unfair to call him a rim protector at this point. He isn't a rim protector by any metric out there... at least not this season.
Here's the rundown on individual rim protection data: http://stats.nba.com/defensivehub/#!/tracking/player/rim/?Season=2016-17&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&Height=GT%207-0&sort=DEF_RIM_FG_PCT&dir=1&CF=MIN*GE*20
Out of all active 7 footers averaging 20 or more minutes a game, Mozgov's rim protection data is on par with Pau Gasol or Nikola Vucevic. Opponents shoot 51% while he's defending at the rim, which ranks him in bottom tier of 7-footers in the NBA. If we're talking about actual rim protection, a guy like Alex Len would be a significant upgrade over Mozgov. I understand Mozgov does other things well enough on offense, but he's as much of a rim protector as Pau Gasol is at this point in his career. |
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adkindo
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| Posted: Mon Dec 05, 2016 12:03 pm Post subject: |
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| KindCrippler2000 wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | So the problem really isn't Mozgov, it is the secondary defenders who are not rotating. |
Mozgov isn't the entire problem, but it would be inaccurate to say he isn't part of it. He's just not making a mark on the defensive end, which is why it would be unfair to call him a rim protector at this point. He isn't a rim protector by any metric out there... at least not this season.
Here's the rundown on individual rim protection data: http://stats.nba.com/defensivehub/#!/tracking/player/rim/?Season=2016-17&SeasonType=Regular%20Season&Height=GT%207-0&sort=DEF_RIM_FG_PCT&dir=1&CF=MIN*GE*20
Out of all active 7 footers averaging 20 or more minutes a game, Mozgov's rim protection data is on par with Pau Gasol or Nikola Vucevic. Opponents shoot 51% while he's defending at the rim, which ranks him in bottom tier of 7-footers in the NBA. If we're talking about actual rim protection, a guy like Alex Len would be a significant upgrade over Mozgov. I understand Mozgov does other things well enough on offense, but he's as much of a rim protector as Pau Gasol is at this point in his career. |
help me out...because I really do not know....is that 51% count when Mozgov is on the court or when he is the individual player contesting the shot at the rim? |
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Mon Dec 05, 2016 12:06 pm Post subject: |
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| Cochese wrote: |
From what i've seen we give up penetration and everytime Mozgov steps up to stop it they dump it off or lob it to Mozgov's man for an easy basket. Nobody ever helps when Mozgov steps up. I think its an effort/rotations thing as far as our interior defense is concerned. |
Yes, and it is an issue that can be solved.
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MIMLaker
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| Posted: Mon Dec 05, 2016 12:07 pm Post subject: |
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| Dr. Funkbot wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | 2 of our better shooters are out with injuries. That's when we'll get our shooters back.
I think in due time, DLO will be our best shooter. |
You beat me to it. Yes, our 2 best shooters are out with injuries. We will get better when they return. |
^^^THIS. |
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