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| Sixers call the Lakers for Clarkson. They'll give us Noel. Do you do this deal? |
| Yes |
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| No |
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38% |
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| Total Votes : 181 |
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Vesper
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 Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2017 7:27 am Post subject: |
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| 76ers are winning with TJ mcconnel and Staukas in their backcourt. Wasn't just dropping Oaks, who was always a bad pair with Embiid together, but they also dropped their starting backcourt.... |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2017 7:29 am Post subject: |
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| Vesper wrote: | | 76ers are winning with TJ mcconnel and Staukas in their backcourt. Wasn't just dropping Oaks, who was always a bad pair with Embiid together, but they also dropped their starting backcourt.... |
TJ and Stauskas played with Oak last year.
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2017 7:31 am Post subject: |
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| adkindo wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | adkindo wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: |
Like I can see Oak punishing 2nd unit bigs, averaging 15-16 ppg with bench units where his defensive holes are less scrutinized. |
he did better than that against starters last year as a rookie. He was a 17 & 7 guy as a rookie shooting over 50%. How many rookies put up those kind of numbers? If Ingram put up those kind of numbers, many on this forum would be losing their minds. He just has to find the right situation, and he may even be in an All-Star discussion at some point. |
And yet the 76ers realized it was a massively losing formula. The +\- difference between him and Noel last season was staggering. I find this argument surprising as most 76ers fans think Oak's scoring last season was illusory. |
not a big fan, just think a team that has a #4 that can help protect the rim, decent perimeter defense, and it may work...I mean Al Jefferson started in this league for a while. I also think Noel has preferential skills in the current NBA. My only point is I would not give up on a 20 year old with offensive skills that some 30 year old vets could only dream of having in the post. |
He has value as a bench scoring big for now until he shows a modicum of effort and efficacy on the defensive end.
Entire offensive sequences grind to a halt when he gets the ball on offense too. No reason why he can't be a more opportunistic passer.
Regardless I think they can move on from him and still do well. Which they basically have done these past 7 or so games.
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Vesper
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| Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2017 7:32 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | Vesper wrote: | | 76ers are winning with TJ mcconnel and Staukas in their backcourt. Wasn't just dropping Oaks, who was always a bad pair with Embiid together, but they also dropped their starting backcourt.... |
TJ and Stauskas played with Oak last year. |
Dont think they started together. Also, I meant the 76ers recent win streak |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2017 7:33 am Post subject: |
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| Vesper wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | Vesper wrote: | | 76ers are winning with TJ mcconnel and Staukas in their backcourt. Wasn't just dropping Oaks, who was always a bad pair with Embiid together, but they also dropped their starting backcourt.... |
TJ and Stauskas played with Oak last year. |
Dont think they started together. Also, I meant the 76ers recent win streak |
So your point is what exactly? That they don't need Oak to play to win?
Or that Stauskas/TJ have better on court worth?
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Vesper
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| Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2017 7:39 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | Vesper wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | Vesper wrote: | | 76ers are winning with TJ mcconnel and Staukas in their backcourt. Wasn't just dropping Oaks, who was always a bad pair with Embiid together, but they also dropped their starting backcourt.... |
TJ and Stauskas played with Oak last year. |
Dont think they started together. Also, I meant the 76ers recent win streak |
So your point is what exactly? That they don't need Oak to play to win? |
Point is that 76ers didn't just start winning games by benching Oaks.
They winning games because they have a balance first and second team.
THey changed their starting backcourt and dropped Saric to the bench.
WIth TJ mcconnell, staukas and ersan starting now.
The bench is now, Noel, Saric, henderson and sergio.
Bench scored 43 last night. 35 the night prior. 37. 41
Of course the pairing of Oak and Embiid would fail, since they both play the same position. |
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Vesper
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| Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2017 7:44 am Post subject: |
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76ers are going to make the playoffs next season. Especially, if they take our pick. I highly doubt they will trade for JC this season. ONly thing 76ers need to do is figure out who to trade in OAks or Noel.
I thought Oaks was overrated back in Chicago, however, now he's way underrated. PUt him in the right situation and he will do well.
I wouldn't be surprised if Lebron ditched Cavs to join the 76ers in his player option year. |
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fiendishoc
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| Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2017 7:44 am Post subject: |
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| Vesper wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | Vesper wrote: | | 76ers are winning with TJ mcconnel and Staukas in their backcourt. Wasn't just dropping Oaks, who was always a bad pair with Embiid together, but they also dropped their starting backcourt.... |
TJ and Stauskas played with Oak last year. |
Dont think they started together. Also, I meant the 76ers recent win streak |
TJ and Stauskas started with Oak for 12 of the first 15 games last season. They lost all of them. |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2017 7:53 am Post subject: |
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| Vesper wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | Vesper wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | Vesper wrote: | | 76ers are winning with TJ mcconnel and Staukas in their backcourt. Wasn't just dropping Oaks, who was always a bad pair with Embiid together, but they also dropped their starting backcourt.... |
TJ and Stauskas played with Oak last year. |
Dont think they started together. Also, I meant the 76ers recent win streak |
So your point is what exactly? That they don't need Oak to play to win? |
Point is that 76ers didn't just start winning games by benching Oaks.
They winning games because they have a balance first and second team.
THey changed their starting backcourt and dropped Saric to the bench.
WIth TJ mcconnell, staukas and ersan starting now.
The bench is now, Noel, Saric, henderson and sergio.
Bench scored 43 last night. 35 the night prior. 37. 41
Of course the pairing of Oak and Embiid would fail, since they both play the same position. |
They didn't win when they had embiid and oak as their two primary bigs. They switch that up to embiid and Noel and now you have 48 minutes of rimprptection and defense. That's the main reason.
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BigGameHames
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| Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2017 8:16 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | The passionate defenses of Oak just makes me chuckle because I never hear 76ers fans (at least those who are my friends, coworkers, local radio/media) making them. They are ready to move on from him.
I wouldn't mind him at all for a cheaper asset but I don't think we have those for the 76ers. |
The passion comes from the guys who hate him (like you). We are simply saying Oak is worth trading for if it's the right price and giving detailed reasons why he can improve in the areas he struggles. Then the response is he sucks on defense and won't be anything more than a scoring big off the bench. Which is unfair to say about a 21 year old who averaged 17 and 8 as a rookie. Not to mention we are advocating for him to be traded for an older scoring guard off the bench who is redundant on our roster. I know there's some crazy Oak fans out there but the people on here who simply think he's still a good young prospect are not the ones out of touch with reality. The ones who think his ceiling is Kanter are. Even if that is where he ends up, that's arguably more valuable than Clarkson anyways so why is everybody acting like that's not a reasonable trade? It's cause people unreasonably hate Okafor. |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2017 8:20 am Post subject: |
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| BigGameHames wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | The passionate defenses of Oak just makes me chuckle because I never hear 76ers fans (at least those who are my friends, coworkers, local radio/media) making them. They are ready to move on from him.
I wouldn't mind him at all for a cheaper asset but I don't think we have those for the 76ers. |
The passion comes from the guys who hate him (like you). We are simply saying Oak is worth trading for if it's the right price and giving detailed reasons why he can improve in the areas he struggles. Then the response is he sucks on defense and won't be anything more than a scoring big off the bench. Which is unfair to say about a 21 year old who averaged 17 and 8 as a rookie. Not to mention we are advocating for him to be traded for an older scoring guard off the bench who is redundant on our roster. I know there's some crazy Oak fans out there but the people on here who simply think he's still a good young prospect are not the ones out of touch with reality. The ones who think his ceiling is Kanter are. Even if that is where he ends up, that's arguably more valuable than Clarkson anyways so why is everybody acting like that's not a reasonable trade? It's cause people unreasonably hate Okafor. |
Where did I say I hate him? He has value, but not as a full time starter. I'm the one who brought up JC for Oak. So maybe you should read before judging?
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2017 8:22 am Post subject: |
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And laughably 76ers fans hate him far more than I (or anyone here) does. Not sure how you are so blind to that. Maybe they're irrational but he's really not working out there
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Vesper
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| Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2017 8:22 am Post subject: |
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| Julius Randle is the equivalent of Oaks on defense. So |
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ocho
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| Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2017 8:23 am Post subject: |
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| Vesper wrote: | | Julius Randle is the equivalent of Oaks on defense. So |
Lol not even close.
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GoldenThroat
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| Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2017 8:24 am Post subject: |
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| Vesper wrote: | | Julius Randle is the equivalent of Oaks on defense. So |
No. |
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Vesper
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| Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2017 8:25 am Post subject: |
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| GoldenThroat wrote: | | Vesper wrote: | | Julius Randle is the equivalent of Oaks on defense. So |
No. |
Your right. Oaks has more potential with his length. |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2017 8:26 am Post subject: |
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| Vesper wrote: | | GoldenThroat wrote: | | Vesper wrote: | | Julius Randle is the equivalent of Oaks on defense. So |
No. |
Your right. Oaks has more potential with his length. |
Are you related to KRL? Eerily similar logic.
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ocho
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| Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2017 8:28 am Post subject: |
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Btw since Okafor hangs his hat on the offensive side of the ball, I'd just like to add that Jahlil's TS% ranks him 45th out of 50 centers this year.
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BigGameHames
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| Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2017 8:30 am Post subject: |
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| ocho wrote: | | BigGameHames wrote: |
I think there is a better argument to be made that Clarkson has regressed since his rookie year then he's improved. If eye-test doesn't do it that look at the stats. Way less assists, same turnovers. Slightly better FG and 3pt % still inconsistent. A few good stretches defensively but still bad.
A comparable player to Okafor as listed above is Cousins. I'm not saying he will be as good as Cousins, but players like Okafor have had success in the NBA. |
So he has become a better shooter and defender (his two main areas to improve since his rookie year) and he has regressed? The Lakers drafted a PG took the playmaking out of his hands more. If Clarkson has regressed since his rookie year I hate to think of what Okafor has done. He hasn't improved a single area of his game.
The Cousins comparison is bogus. Cousins is an elite rebounder and Okafor perhaps the worst in the league at his position. That makes a big difference. And Cousins has never been to the playoffs. If Cousins is Okafor's best case scenario he has a long, long, long way to go before he can be that kind of player that is in the lottery every year. |
Clearly we value different traits in a player. He incrementally improved in shooting and defense. He went from one of the worst defenders in the NBA, to an inconsistent below average defender. At a position that I believe is one of the most important spots to have good defenders. His shooting has been extremely inconsistent but yes incremental improvements.
You're missing my point on why I believe he's regressed. His shot selection, tunnel vision and ability to take care of the ball have all gotten worse. I think most people would agree with that and the stats back it up anyways. Those are the things I've been saying he needs to improve for over a year in addition to defense. His defense hasn't improved enough for me to say he is a different player. I would say he is basically the same player as his rookie year or he has regressed a little bit.
I'm not a huge Clarkson fan(think he caps out at 6th man scorer) and you don't like Okafor. Of course Okafor is a long way from Cousins but I think getting out of Philly would do wonders for him and would be a good chance to take for the Lakers. |
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av3773
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| Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2017 8:31 am Post subject: |
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| I still think Oak is a good player, but imo to really maximize his potential you really have to build a team around his skill sets, not plug him into a team like ours or most of the NBA teams that have gone away from a center dominated attack. A team with no clear direction I think he is a great piece bbevause you can build around him |
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av3773
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| Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2017 8:33 am Post subject: |
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| The other thing is for our team Zubac looks like he can develop into a more well rounded center, so unless we got Oak for peanuts, which won't happen is there really a pressing need? |
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ocho
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| Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2017 8:37 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | Clearly we value different traits in a player. He incrementally improved in shooting and defense. He went from one of the worst defenders in the NBA, to an inconsistent below average defender. At a position that I believe is one of the most important spots to have good defenders. His shooting has been extremely inconsistent but yes incremental improvements. |
You just cannot be credibly knocking a player for his defense while advocating for Jahlil Okafor. You think Clarkson's position is important for defense? Okafor's position is the most important. Clarkson isn't a great defender, but he has clearly improved and adds value with his other skills. Not only is Okafor a worse defender at a more crucial position, not only has he not improved, but he has been deemed unplayable by his 12 win team who just so happened to start winning games when they took him out if the equation.
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ocho
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| Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2017 8:42 am Post subject: |
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| av3773 wrote: | | I still think Oak is a good player, but imo to really maximize his potential you really have to build a team around his skill sets, not plug him into a team like ours or most of the NBA teams that have gone away from a center dominated attack. A team with no clear direction I think he is a great piece bbevause you can build around him |
You generally can't build around bad offensive and defensive players.
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ocho
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| Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2017 8:43 am Post subject: |
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| av3773 wrote: | | The other thing is for our team Zubac looks like he can develop into a more well rounded center, so unless we got Oak for peanuts, which won't happen is there really a pressing need? |
No. Theres nothing they'd want that we have that is worth giving up for him.
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Vesper
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| Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2017 8:45 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | Vesper wrote: | | GoldenThroat wrote: | | Vesper wrote: | | Julius Randle is the equivalent of Oaks on defense. So |
No. |
Your right. Oaks has more potential with his length. |
Are you related to KRL? Eerily similar logic. |
Just so happens that Mozgov has a defensive rating of 114. His highest in his career before coming here was 108 during his early denver years...
It also just so happens that Hibbert went from 110 with us last year to 105 this year with the hornets and was 101, 98, 97 the seasons prior with Indy.
Even with Deng and Mozgov, both that are suppose to be defensive players, we have the worst defensive rating in the NBA |
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