Clarkson/filler for Noel. WYD
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Sixers call the Lakers for Clarkson. They'll give us Noel. Do you do this deal?
Yes
61%
 61%  [ 112 ]
No
38%
 38%  [ 69 ]
Total Votes : 181

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yinoma2001
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2017 8:46 am    Post subject:

Vesper wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Vesper wrote:
GoldenThroat wrote:
Vesper wrote:
Julius Randle is the equivalent of Oaks on defense. So


No.


Your right. Oaks has more potential with his length.


Are you related to KRL? Eerily similar logic.


Just so happens that Mozgov has a defensive rating of 114. His highest in his career before coming here was 108 during his early denver years...

It also just so happens that Hibbert went from 110 with us last year to 105 this year with the hornets and was 101, 98, 97 the seasons prior with Indy.


What does that have anything to do with your point about Oak and his defense?
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2017 8:48 am    Post subject:

Vesper wrote:
GoldenThroat wrote:
Vesper wrote:
Julius Randle is the equivalent of Oaks on defense. So


No.


Your right. Oaks has more potential with his length.


And Randle is more effective in a non-theoretical way with his feet. It's not even close.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2017 8:49 am    Post subject:

Defensive Rating? We're talmbout Defensive Rating?
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2017 8:56 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
Vesper wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Vesper wrote:
GoldenThroat wrote:
Vesper wrote:
Julius Randle is the equivalent of Oaks on defense. So


No.


Your right. Oaks has more potential with his length.


Are you related to KRL? Eerily similar logic.


Just so happens that Mozgov has a defensive rating of 114. His highest in his career before coming here was 108 during his early denver years...

It also just so happens that Hibbert went from 110 with us last year to 105 this year with the hornets and was 101, 98, 97 the seasons prior with Indy.


What does that have anything to do with your point about Oak and his defense?


MEaning Randle is just as a liability as Oaks. However, Oaks is getting crucified for his defense...

Lou Deng went from 105 to 112
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2017 9:04 am    Post subject:

Vesper wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Vesper wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Vesper wrote:
GoldenThroat wrote:
Vesper wrote:
Julius Randle is the equivalent of Oaks on defense. So


No.


Your right. Oaks has more potential with his length.


Are you related to KRL? Eerily similar logic.


Just so happens that Mozgov has a defensive rating of 114. His highest in his career before coming here was 108 during his early denver years...

It also just so happens that Hibbert went from 110 with us last year to 105 this year with the hornets and was 101, 98, 97 the seasons prior with Indy.


What does that have anything to do with your point about Oak and his defense?


MEaning Randle is just as a liability as Oaks. However, Oaks is getting crucified for his defense...

Lou Deng went from 105 to 112


Sigh. You might want to learn how to use that rating.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2017 9:06 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
Vesper wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Vesper wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Vesper wrote:
GoldenThroat wrote:
Vesper wrote:
Julius Randle is the equivalent of Oaks on defense. So


No.


Your right. Oaks has more potential with his length.


Are you related to KRL? Eerily similar logic.


Just so happens that Mozgov has a defensive rating of 114. His highest in his career before coming here was 108 during his early denver years...

It also just so happens that Hibbert went from 110 with us last year to 105 this year with the hornets and was 101, 98, 97 the seasons prior with Indy.


What does that have anything to do with your point about Oak and his defense?


MEaning Randle is just as a liability as Oaks. However, Oaks is getting crucified for his defense...

Lou Deng went from 105 to 112


Sigh. You might want to learn how to use that rating.


Please explain MR I am always right
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2017 9:09 am    Post subject:

Your use of that stat shows the TEAM as a whole is defending poorly. Doesn't speak to the difference between Oak and Jules individually.

And knock off the personal insults.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2017 9:15 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
Your use of that stat shows the TEAM as a whole is defending poorly. Doesn't speak to the difference between Oak and Jules individually.

And knock off the personal insults.


No... It actually shows a lot.

Both our key Free agents that were known for their defensive ability have their highest defensive rating in their whole career after joining us....

Even without defensive liabilities in Kobe, JC and LouWill in the starting 5. Our defensive efficiency last season was better than this season....
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2017 9:16 am    Post subject:

ocho wrote:
Quote:
Clearly we value different traits in a player. He incrementally improved in shooting and defense. He went from one of the worst defenders in the NBA, to an inconsistent below average defender. At a position that I believe is one of the most important spots to have good defenders. His shooting has been extremely inconsistent but yes incremental improvements.


You just cannot be credibly knocking a player for his defense while advocating for Jahlil Okafor. You think Clarkson's position is important for defense? Okafor's position is the most important. Clarkson isn't a great defender, but he has clearly improved and adds value with his other skills. Not only is Okafor a worse defender at a more crucial position, not only has he not improved, but he has been deemed unplayable by his 12 win team who just so happened to start winning games when they took him out if the equation.


Yes I can. I value wing defenders a lot and I don't think the 5 is as important defensively as many do. IIRC the Warriors have the #1 defense with Zaza and Dray Green playing a bulk of the minutes at center. Why? Because they have long and talented wing defenders who can guard multiple positions effectively.

The sixers have been tanking for years, who they play and win with doesn't concern me all that much. I think Okafor needs a change of scenery and he would improve. This isn't going anywhere so let's just agree to disagree.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2017 9:17 am    Post subject:

Vesper wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Vesper wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Vesper wrote:
GoldenThroat wrote:
Vesper wrote:
Julius Randle is the equivalent of Oaks on defense. So


No.


Your right. Oaks has more potential with his length.


Are you related to KRL? Eerily similar logic.


Just so happens that Mozgov has a defensive rating of 114. His highest in his career before coming here was 108 during his early denver years...

It also just so happens that Hibbert went from 110 with us last year to 105 this year with the hornets and was 101, 98, 97 the seasons prior with Indy.


What does that have anything to do with your point about Oak and his defense?


MEaning Randle is just as a liability as Oaks. However, Oaks is getting crucified for his defense...

Lou Deng went from 105 to 112


Dude, you're making anybody defending Oak look dumber by association and only making things worse. Please stop
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2017 9:19 am    Post subject:

Vesper wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Your use of that stat shows the TEAM as a whole is defending poorly. Doesn't speak to the difference between Oak and Jules individually.

And knock off the personal insults.


No... It actually shows a lot.

Both our key Free agents that were known for their defensive ability have their highest defensive rating in their whole career after joining us....

Even without defensive liabilities in Kobe, JC and LouWill in the starting 5. Our defensive efficiency last season was better than this season....


Good lord.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2017 9:19 am    Post subject:

BigGameHames wrote:
Vesper wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Vesper wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Vesper wrote:
GoldenThroat wrote:
Vesper wrote:
Julius Randle is the equivalent of Oaks on defense. So


No.


Your right. Oaks has more potential with his length.


Are you related to KRL? Eerily similar logic.


Just so happens that Mozgov has a defensive rating of 114. His highest in his career before coming here was 108 during his early denver years...

It also just so happens that Hibbert went from 110 with us last year to 105 this year with the hornets and was 101, 98, 97 the seasons prior with Indy.


What does that have anything to do with your point about Oak and his defense?


MEaning Randle is just as a liability as Oaks. However, Oaks is getting crucified for his defense...

Lou Deng went from 105 to 112


Dude, you're making anybody defending Oak look dumber by association and only making things worse. Please stop


Yeah. This isn't the stat/angle to use.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2017 9:20 am    Post subject:

BigGameHames wrote:
ocho wrote:
Quote:
Clearly we value different traits in a player. He incrementally improved in shooting and defense. He went from one of the worst defenders in the NBA, to an inconsistent below average defender. At a position that I believe is one of the most important spots to have good defenders. His shooting has been extremely inconsistent but yes incremental improvements.


You just cannot be credibly knocking a player for his defense while advocating for Jahlil Okafor. You think Clarkson's position is important for defense? Okafor's position is the most important. Clarkson isn't a great defender, but he has clearly improved and adds value with his other skills. Not only is Okafor a worse defender at a more crucial position, not only has he not improved, but he has been deemed unplayable by his 12 win team who just so happened to start winning games when they took him out if the equation.


Yes I can. I value wing defenders a lot and I don't think the 5 is as important defensively as many do. IIRC the Warriors have the #1 defense with Zaza and Dray Green playing a bulk of the minutes at center. Why? Because they have long and talented wing defenders who can guard multiple positions effectively.

The sixers have been tanking for years, who they play and win with doesn't concern me all that much. I think Okafor needs a change of scenery and he would improve. This isn't going anywhere so let's just agree to disagree.


Yeah. 100% Oak needs to get out of there. He's toast with Embiid there and for Oak's sake hope he gets a shot somewhere else.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2017 9:23 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
BigGameHames wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
The passionate defenses of Oak just makes me chuckle because I never hear 76ers fans (at least those who are my friends, coworkers, local radio/media) making them. They are ready to move on from him.

I wouldn't mind him at all for a cheaper asset but I don't think we have those for the 76ers.


The passion comes from the guys who hate him (like you). We are simply saying Oak is worth trading for if it's the right price and giving detailed reasons why he can improve in the areas he struggles. Then the response is he sucks on defense and won't be anything more than a scoring big off the bench. Which is unfair to say about a 21 year old who averaged 17 and 8 as a rookie. Not to mention we are advocating for him to be traded for an older scoring guard off the bench who is redundant on our roster. I know there's some crazy Oak fans out there but the people on here who simply think he's still a good young prospect are not the ones out of touch with reality. The ones who think his ceiling is Kanter are. Even if that is where he ends up, that's arguably more valuable than Clarkson anyways so why is everybody acting like that's not a reasonable trade? It's cause people unreasonably hate Okafor.


Where did I say I hate him? He has value, but not as a full time starter. I'm the one who brought up JC for Oak. So maybe you should read before judging?


Come on Yinoma, we've had this talk many times. Don't act like I'm making a judgement of your opinion of him off a few sentences. You know how I feel about him and I know how you do. I didn't notice you brought up the Clarkson thing and I apologize but I thought your post was nonsense and the opposite of the truth. If you say Oak can still be a good player on here you get attacked. And that's talking about a guy who averaged 17/8 as a rookie. The passion come much more from his naysayers.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2017 9:24 am    Post subject:

BigGameHames wrote:
Vesper wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Vesper wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Vesper wrote:
GoldenThroat wrote:
Vesper wrote:
Julius Randle is the equivalent of Oaks on defense. So


No.


Your right. Oaks has more potential with his length.


Are you related to KRL? Eerily similar logic.


Just so happens that Mozgov has a defensive rating of 114. His highest in his career before coming here was 108 during his early denver years...

It also just so happens that Hibbert went from 110 with us last year to 105 this year with the hornets and was 101, 98, 97 the seasons prior with Indy.


What does that have anything to do with your point about Oak and his defense?


MEaning Randle is just as a liability as Oaks. However, Oaks is getting crucified for his defense...

Lou Deng went from 105 to 112


Dude, you're making anybody defending Oak look dumber by association and only making things worse. Please stop


Yes, facts aren't good arguments.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2017 9:25 am    Post subject:

BigGameHames wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
BigGameHames wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
The passionate defenses of Oak just makes me chuckle because I never hear 76ers fans (at least those who are my friends, coworkers, local radio/media) making them. They are ready to move on from him.

I wouldn't mind him at all for a cheaper asset but I don't think we have those for the 76ers.


The passion comes from the guys who hate him (like you). We are simply saying Oak is worth trading for if it's the right price and giving detailed reasons why he can improve in the areas he struggles. Then the response is he sucks on defense and won't be anything more than a scoring big off the bench. Which is unfair to say about a 21 year old who averaged 17 and 8 as a rookie. Not to mention we are advocating for him to be traded for an older scoring guard off the bench who is redundant on our roster. I know there's some crazy Oak fans out there but the people on here who simply think he's still a good young prospect are not the ones out of touch with reality. The ones who think his ceiling is Kanter are. Even if that is where he ends up, that's arguably more valuable than Clarkson anyways so why is everybody acting like that's not a reasonable trade? It's cause people unreasonably hate Okafor.


Where did I say I hate him? He has value, but not as a full time starter. I'm the one who brought up JC for Oak. So maybe you should read before judging?


Come on Yinoma, we've had this talk many times. Don't act like I'm making a judgement of your opinion of him off a few sentences. You know how I feel about him and I know how you do. I didn't notice you brought up the Clarkson thing and I apologize but I thought your post was nonsense and the opposite of the truth. If you say Oak can still be a good player on here you get attacked. And that's talking about a guy who averaged 17/8 as a rookie. The passion come much more from his naysayers.


To "hate" him would be to call him a bust which I never have. I don't think he's a star and will be a bench big aka Kanter. That is nowhere near hating him.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2017 9:26 am    Post subject:

Since this is a thoretical Noel thread can we move on from Oak please? This is just not fun to rehash.

Why is it that we need to get bent out of shape (either direction) for a guy who will likely not be a Laker.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2017 9:32 am    Post subject:

BigGameHames wrote:
ocho wrote:
Quote:
Clearly we value different traits in a player. He incrementally improved in shooting and defense. He went from one of the worst defenders in the NBA, to an inconsistent below average defender. At a position that I believe is one of the most important spots to have good defenders. His shooting has been extremely inconsistent but yes incremental improvements.


You just cannot be credibly knocking a player for his defense while advocating for Jahlil Okafor. You think Clarkson's position is important for defense? Okafor's position is the most important. Clarkson isn't a great defender, but he has clearly improved and adds value with his other skills. Not only is Okafor a worse defender at a more crucial position, not only has he not improved, but he has been deemed unplayable by his 12 win team who just so happened to start winning games when they took him out if the equation.


Yes I can. I value wing defenders a lot and I don't think the 5 is as important defensively as many do. IIRC the Warriors have the #1 defense with Zaza and Dray Green playing a bulk of the minutes at center. Why? Because they have long and talented wing defenders who can guard multiple positions effectively.

The sixers have been tanking for years, who they play and win with doesn't concern me all that much. I think Okafor needs a change of scenery and he would improve. This isn't going anywhere so let's just agree to disagree.


I totally agree with your take on wing defenders vs the 5. I would much rather have solid wing defenders. I think our perimeter D is (and has been) poor for a long time. Our guys seems to get easily beaten which puts a lot of pressure on our bigs (especially those who can not move or who have T Rex arms). Because of the breakdowns, it seems we give a ton of open looks from the 3 as well.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2017 9:32 am    Post subject:

Vesper wrote:
BigGameHames wrote:
Vesper wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Vesper wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Vesper wrote:
GoldenThroat wrote:
Vesper wrote:
Julius Randle is the equivalent of Oaks on defense. So


No.


Your right. Oaks has more potential with his length.


Are you related to KRL? Eerily similar logic.


Just so happens that Mozgov has a defensive rating of 114. His highest in his career before coming here was 108 during his early denver years...

It also just so happens that Hibbert went from 110 with us last year to 105 this year with the hornets and was 101, 98, 97 the seasons prior with Indy.


What does that have anything to do with your point about Oak and his defense?


MEaning Randle is just as a liability as Oaks. However, Oaks is getting crucified for his defense...

Lou Deng went from 105 to 112


Dude, you're making anybody defending Oak look dumber by association and only making things worse. Please stop


Yes, facts aren't good arguments.


Those defensive stats are not a good argument. ESPECIALLY for Oak.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2017 9:32 am    Post subject:

Vesper wrote:
Julius Randle is the equivalent of Oaks on defense. So


Nope. Different physical tools.

You can switch Randle onto perimeter players and rely on him for a stop.
You can have Randle contest shooters.
You can rely on Randle for rebounding.
You can rely on Randle to hedge PnRs (Still doesn't but I know he's capable).

All things that Okafor completely struggles with, and that's just the start. We're not even talking rim protection.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2017 9:35 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
BigGameHames wrote:
ocho wrote:
Quote:
Clearly we value different traits in a player. He incrementally improved in shooting and defense. He went from one of the worst defenders in the NBA, to an inconsistent below average defender. At a position that I believe is one of the most important spots to have good defenders. His shooting has been extremely inconsistent but yes incremental improvements.


You just cannot be credibly knocking a player for his defense while advocating for Jahlil Okafor. You think Clarkson's position is important for defense? Okafor's position is the most important. Clarkson isn't a great defender, but he has clearly improved and adds value with his other skills. Not only is Okafor a worse defender at a more crucial position, not only has he not improved, but he has been deemed unplayable by his 12 win team who just so happened to start winning games when they took him out if the equation.


Yes I can. I value wing defenders a lot and I don't think the 5 is as important defensively as many do. IIRC the Warriors have the #1 defense with Zaza and Dray Green playing a bulk of the minutes at center. Why? Because they have long and talented wing defenders who can guard multiple positions effectively.

The sixers have been tanking for years, who they play and win with doesn't concern me all that much. I think Okafor needs a change of scenery and he would improve. This isn't going anywhere so let's just agree to disagree.


Yeah. 100% Oak needs to get out of there. He's toast with Embiid there and for Oak's sake hope he gets a shot somewhere else.


I don't buy this. Why does he need a different jersey to defend? To rebound? To be an efficient offensive player? He doesn't need to start to accomplish these things. These things are on him, not the Sixers.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2017 9:38 am    Post subject:

ocho wrote:
I don't buy this. Why does he need a different jersey to defend? To rebound? To be an efficient offensive player? He doesn't need to start to accomplish these things. These things are on him, not the Sixers.


"Kobe Bryant needs to leave LA because Eddie Jones is in the way."
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2017 9:40 am    Post subject:

Okafor looks to be the odd man in Philly. I think they re-sign Noel.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2017 9:41 am    Post subject:

ocho wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
BigGameHames wrote:
ocho wrote:
Quote:
Clearly we value different traits in a player. He incrementally improved in shooting and defense. He went from one of the worst defenders in the NBA, to an inconsistent below average defender. At a position that I believe is one of the most important spots to have good defenders. His shooting has been extremely inconsistent but yes incremental improvements.


You just cannot be credibly knocking a player for his defense while advocating for Jahlil Okafor. You think Clarkson's position is important for defense? Okafor's position is the most important. Clarkson isn't a great defender, but he has clearly improved and adds value with his other skills. Not only is Okafor a worse defender at a more crucial position, not only has he not improved, but he has been deemed unplayable by his 12 win team who just so happened to start winning games when they took him out if the equation.


Yes I can. I value wing defenders a lot and I don't think the 5 is as important defensively as many do. IIRC the Warriors have the #1 defense with Zaza and Dray Green playing a bulk of the minutes at center. Why? Because they have long and talented wing defenders who can guard multiple positions effectively.

The sixers have been tanking for years, who they play and win with doesn't concern me all that much. I think Okafor needs a change of scenery and he would improve. This isn't going anywhere so let's just agree to disagree.


Yeah. 100% Oak needs to get out of there. He's toast with Embiid there and for Oak's sake hope he gets a shot somewhere else.


I don't buy this. Why does he need a different jersey to defend? To rebound? To be an efficient offensive player? He doesn't need to start to accomplish these things. These things are on him, not the Sixers.


It is partially on him. It's also on an organization that is TRYING to lose. And there's two other young lottery pick centers on the team.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 14, 2017 9:41 am    Post subject:

It looks more and more likely that the 76ers might keep Noel around. They have been playing much better lately and I think they will try to keep it going.

I still don't know if they would want to pay Noel this summer. He is essentially a back up for them due to Embiid's emergence. Maybe now that they have improved they will use the money to seek free agents to fill other needs.

Initially I was 50/50 on whether or not I wanted Noel, but as the season goes on I think he's a guy who could help us. Mozgov's play has not been impressive. I'm not convinced he is a starting level NBA center. I know tying up a lot of money in Noel and Mozgov might be risky, but it might be worth it. It would probably mean the end of Tarik though, which sucks because I like him.
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