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KindCrippler2000
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 1:13 pm    Post subject:

iimarshon wrote:
Only teams we have to worry about for tank are BROOKLYN (they'll be better when Lin is back and then have no reason to tank), MIAMI (they're awful) and DALLAS.

Philly is getting better.

PHO is on level as us so might be close.

Everyone else is better.

Ideally we finish around 3rd worst but jump to #1 and Brooklyn/Boston slides down to like 4-5


1) Dallas has a good chance of winning more games after the all-star break. Dirk is back and Rick Carlisle is too good of a coach to not get the best out of his veteran team.

2) Heat might very well lose but it depends on their health. They need Richardson back. With Whiteside on the floor, they'll be one of the better defensive teams and games should be close. They did beat the Rockets the other day.

3) Brooklyn is hopeless, but I think LeVert can be a special player.

4) Phoenix is young, but guys like Tucker, Chandler, Len are providing a nice defensive boost. They should be competitive in more games if Booker goes off like he did vs the Spurs.

As it currently stands, Lakers do not have the same defensive personnel as those teams (last in most defensive categories), which is why they might lose quite a bit in the coming weeks. The 10-10 start was very deceptive because they were playing out of their minds on the offensive end.
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activeverb
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 1:43 pm    Post subject:

iimarshon wrote:
Only teams we have to worry about for tank are BROOKLYN (they'll be better when Lin is back and then have no reason to tank), MIAMI (they're awful) and DALLAS.

Philly is getting better.

PHO is on level as us so might be close.

Everyone else is better.

Ideally we finish around 3rd worst but jump to #1 and Brooklyn/Boston slides down to like 4-5



I get the feeling some people don't understand the lottery system and think if we finished with the 3rd worst record we automatically keep our pick.

If we finish with the second or third worse record, we have about a 50% chance of keeping it. Even if we finish with the worst record, we have about a 33% chance of losing the pick.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 1:52 pm    Post subject:

Fracture wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
I'm relying more on the untrue, but fun theory that there will be a "frozen envelope" top 3 pick for the Lakers this year, regardless of whether we are #1 worst or #14 worst.


There better be, the NBA still owes us for the CP3 debacle


That is very true!
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yinoma2001
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 1:54 pm    Post subject:

Remember the Cavs, with the 9th worst record got #1...it can happen!!!
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Baron Von Humongous
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 2:18 pm    Post subject:

AC Green's V-Card wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
Ujah's Goat wrote:
Laker_Dynasty_01 wrote:
adkindo wrote:
Like the majority of fans, it sounds like you misunderstand Hinkie's goal. "The Process" which is what Hinkie's methods have been dubbed by others was not about grabbing a bunch of draft picks and building a great young team. The draft picks that didn't work out are irrelevant to the primary goal. This is why Philly drafted 3 Centers in 3 straight drafts. Hinkie wanted to obtain as many top draft picks over a relative short period in search of a true superstar. Its the theory of "as many bites at the apple" as possible. Per his perspective, to truly contend for championships in this league, you need one or two superstars....not a bunch of good players. Over history, we have seen "a bunch of good players" find success in Detroit, but he recognized how unstable that method is, and how short lived the winning is.....but teams that had the 4 or 5 true superstars in the league for the most part remained competitive even during the short periods they were not in contention. He got them one sure fire future superstar in Embid, and most still believe Simmons will have that level of potential. Thats all that mattered....trade the rest if they do not fit, and FA's will consider Philly once Embid and Simmons solidify their talent. If we are being honest, the non-Laker perspective is that Philly is leaps and bounds ahead of the Lakers rebuild because the Lakers do not have a player projected to be a SuperStar. It was always a tradeoff....3-5 years of losing for 15 years of contending for a ring. It is starting to take shape just as he predicted.


The only problem with this explanation is, if Embiid was their man, then why draft Okafor? Both the Knicks and Lakers FO had that right, at least.

IMO, had Embiid gotten back in time his rookie/soph year to help the Sixers win a few games, he probably gets shipped out for another draft pick. The Okafor pick suggests they stumbled ass backwards onto the Embiid train.


Still worked for them. And a discussion can be had that Okafor, their worst young asset, will be a better player than D'Lo, arguably our best player. Plus they are in better position than us to acquire even more young talent and better free agents in the coming years. I'll take their FO's apparent stumble over our FO's annual train wreck off-season moves any day of the week.

Not a very well-informed, non-trolling discussion, no.

Philly was in a completely different place than the Lakers with different commitments, assets, and trajectories. And Hinkie's bad moves are all rendered meaningless as long as he hit on a star once.


I think that's an unfair summation of the moves Hinkie made.

Notable moves:

Drafted
Noel (potential DPOY)
Embiid (potential DPOY/MVP, definite future All-Star)
Saric (solid up-and-comer, jury still out on how good he can be)
Okafor (good offense, serviceable backup, trade bait)

Undrafted free agent signings
TJ McConnell (serviceable backup PG)
Robert Covington (serviceable backup SF)

Trades for future assets
MCW for our Lakers 1st rounder (this year or next)
Arturas Gudaitis/Luka Mitrovic (who?) for Stauskus (serviceable backup), future 1st rounder, pick swap rights with Kings in '16/'17, Jason Thompson/Carl Landry (expiring contracts)

Hinkie hired Brett Brown, who's been nothing if not extremely patient throughout "the process" and looks to be turning the corner. They will have nearly ~30 million in cap space next summer, since they ate money short-term with expiring contracts to free up money in the long-term. Not to mention he put them in the position to draft Ben Simmons, who he would have drafted given the chance.

The future is very bright in Philadelphia, and Hinkie took a lot of heat to make that happen.

Where did I intimate that he didn't guide the Sixers through an impressive tear-down and asset build up? I'm aware of all of the above, and I would add in his shrewdest move, which was trading Elfrid Payton for Dario Saric (selected two picks later) for their 2017 pick back from Orlando (moved in the Bynum deal). But thank you for the substantive, civil response unlike some other folks 'round here.

I'm saying that his Okafor gaffe or moving KJ McDaniels for Canaan or two second round picks for Ish Smith were low stakes misses because he had a mandate to be bad until he landed a star. No Lakers front office would have ever received the same mandate from the Buss family, though I imagine they finally wised up a bit after last season and could embrace the tank again this year. Regardless, I can easily acknowledge Hinkie's impressive work while acknowledging the totally different circumstances Kupchak faced after Howard walked and Kobe's achilles tendon exploded.
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Laker_Dynasty_01
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 4:58 pm    Post subject:

Baron Von Humongous wrote:
AC Green's V-Card wrote:
I think that's an unfair summation of the moves Hinkie made.

Notable moves:

Drafted
Noel (potential DPOY)
Embiid (potential DPOY/MVP, definite future All-Star)
Saric (solid up-and-comer, jury still out on how good he can be)
Okafor (good offense, serviceable backup, trade bait)

Undrafted free agent signings
TJ McConnell (serviceable backup PG)
Robert Covington (serviceable backup SF)

Trades for future assets
MCW for our Lakers 1st rounder (this year or next)
Arturas Gudaitis/Luka Mitrovic (who?) for Stauskus (serviceable backup), future 1st rounder, pick swap rights with Kings in '16/'17, Jason Thompson/Carl Landry (expiring contracts)

Hinkie hired Brett Brown, who's been nothing if not extremely patient throughout "the process" and looks to be turning the corner. They will have nearly ~30 million in cap space next summer, since they ate money short-term with expiring contracts to free up money in the long-term. Not to mention he put them in the position to draft Ben Simmons, who he would have drafted given the chance.

The future is very bright in Philadelphia, and Hinkie took a lot of heat to make that happen.

Where did I intimate that he didn't guide the Sixers through an impressive tear-down and asset build up? I'm aware of all of the above, and I would add in his shrewdest move, which was trading Elfrid Payton for Dario Saric (selected two picks later) for their 2017 pick back from Orlando (moved in the Bynum deal). But thank you for the substantive, civil response unlike some other folks 'round here.


Unfortunately, Elfrid Payton is looking very good. Saric is as well, but once Simmons returns, there will be a logjam at the 4(Simmons may be a point forward but he's no small forward).

All of the Sixers' good young players are at the 4 or 5, and their own pick they got back will probably be 5th-6th, after most of the guards are taken(though I hear some nice bigs will be available). The Sixers will have a 54% chance at a 4th-5th pick from us, though. And forget that Kings swap, not happening(they'll do better w/o Rudy).

And to anyone foolish enough to think Philly will be dominating the East when LeBron retires, we Lakers fans should be so lucky.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 5:28 pm    Post subject:

Ujah's Goat wrote:
Still worked for them. And a discussion can be had that Okafor, their worst young asset, will be a better player than D'Lo, arguably our best player. Plus they are in better position than us to acquire even more young talent and better free agents in the coming years. I'll take their FO's apparent stumble over our FO's annual train wreck off-season moves any day of the week.

The only thing worth discussing there is, who is the better rebounder on a given night?

The Sixers may be better than us for the rest of the decade, but the draft lottery will determine who is in better position to add talent in the coming years. Would you rather have a top 3 pick this year, or a top 5-7 pick this year and the next? Philly will have to get to .500 before they add talent via free agency, as does anyone.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 6:54 pm    Post subject:

Heat about to win again. Now only 2 wins separate the Lakers from 2nd worst in the NBA.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 7:23 pm    Post subject:

dcarter4kobe wrote:
Heat about to win again. Now only 2 wins separate the Lakers from 2nd worst in the NBA.


I just got thrilled and disgusted at the same time
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 7:32 pm    Post subject:

justsomelakerfan wrote:
dcarter4kobe wrote:
Heat about to win again. Now only 2 wins separate the Lakers from 2nd worst in the NBA.


I just got thrilled and disgusted at the same time



Yes it's a bizzaro world situation these days .... Half game behind the Heat for the 2nd spot/....16% points behind the Suns for 3rd spot.
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lakersken80
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 7:38 pm    Post subject:

I think if the Lakers were to keep their draft pick this year it will all come down to luck....having the top 3 worst record won't do it this year.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 7:40 pm    Post subject:

justsomelakerfan wrote:
dcarter4kobe wrote:
Heat about to win again. Now only 2 wins separate the Lakers from 2nd worst in the NBA.


I just got thrilled and disgusted at the same time


Might as well tank because we need our 2019 pick back too along with 2017.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 8:31 pm    Post subject:

fontana3d wrote:
justsomelakerfan wrote:
dcarter4kobe wrote:
Heat about to win again. Now only 2 wins separate the Lakers from 2nd worst in the NBA.


I just got thrilled and disgusted at the same time


Might as well tank because we need our 2019 pick back too along with 2017.


Exactly
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 8:36 pm    Post subject:

lakers4life78 wrote:
Ujah's Goat wrote:
Laker_Dynasty_01 wrote:
adkindo wrote:
Like the majority of fans, it sounds like you misunderstand Hinkie's goal. "The Process" which is what Hinkie's methods have been dubbed by others was not about grabbing a bunch of draft picks and building a great young team. The draft picks that didn't work out are irrelevant to the primary goal. This is why Philly drafted 3 Centers in 3 straight drafts. Hinkie wanted to obtain as many top draft picks over a relative short period in search of a true superstar. Its the theory of "as many bites at the apple" as possible. Per his perspective, to truly contend for championships in this league, you need one or two superstars....not a bunch of good players. Over history, we have seen "a bunch of good players" find success in Detroit, but he recognized how unstable that method is, and how short lived the winning is.....but teams that had the 4 or 5 true superstars in the league for the most part remained competitive even during the short periods they were not in contention. He got them one sure fire future superstar in Embid, and most still believe Simmons will have that level of potential. Thats all that mattered....trade the rest if they do not fit, and FA's will consider Philly once Embid and Simmons solidify their talent. If we are being honest, the non-Laker perspective is that Philly is leaps and bounds ahead of the Lakers rebuild because the Lakers do not have a player projected to be a SuperStar. It was always a tradeoff....3-5 years of losing for 15 years of contending for a ring. It is starting to take shape just as he predicted.


The only problem with this explanation is, if Embiid was their man, then why draft Okafor? Both the Knicks and Lakers FO had that right, at least.

IMO, had Embiid gotten back in time his rookie/soph year to help the Sixers win a few games, he probably gets shipped out for another draft pick. The Okafor pick suggests they stumbled ass backwards onto the Embiid train.


Still worked for them. And a discussion can be had that Okafor, their worst young asset, will be a better player than D'Lo, arguably our best player. Plus they are in better position than us to acquire even more young talent and better free agents in the coming years. I'll take their FO's apparent stumble over our FO's annual train wreck off-season moves any day of the week.


D'Lo isn't the Lakers best young player, Ingram has a higher ceiling and I'd even go as far to say potentially Zubac.

For all the people critical of the Sixers strategy, they've missed the playoffs one more year than the Lakers.



I did the summary for you.


2011 - 2012
41 - 25....Lakers (Playoffs)
35 - 31....Philadelphia (Playoffs)

Summer 2012
Bynum - Howard trade

2012 - 2013
45 - 37....Lakers (Playoffs)
34 - 48....Philadelphia (Missed Playoffs and Bynum missed the entire season)

Spring 2013
Philadelphia pushes out the people that traded for Bynum and hires Hinkie.

2013 - 2014
27 - 55....Lakers (Missed Playoffs)
19 - 63....Philadelphia (Missed Playoffs)

2014 - 2015
21 - 61....Lakers (Missed Playoffs)
18 - 64....Philadelphia (Missed Playoffs)

2015 - 2016
17 - 63....Lakers (Missed Playoffs)
10 - 72....Philadelphia (Missed Playoffs)

Spring 2016
Hinkie leaves

2016 - 2017
15 - 31....Lakers
14 - 26....Philadelphia


It appears that Hinkie was there for approximately three seasons rather than the four seasons that some have suggested.
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 8:42 pm    Post subject:

The bolded in the OP is ridiculous.

Laker_Dynasty_01 wrote:
Ujah's Goat wrote:
Still worked for them. And a discussion can be had that Okafor, their worst young asset, will be a better player than D'Lo, arguably our best player. Plus they are in better position than us to acquire even more young talent and better free agents in the coming years. I'll take their FO's apparent stumble over our FO's annual train wreck off-season moves any day of the week.

The only thing worth discussing there is, who is the better rebounder on a given night?

The Sixers may be better than us for the rest of the decade, but the draft lottery will determine who is in better position to add talent in the coming years. Would you rather have a top 3 pick this year, or a top 5-7 pick this year and the next? Philly will have to get to .500 before they add talent via free agency, as does anyone.
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KindCrippler2000
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 8:47 pm    Post subject:

And just like that, Lakers are 4th on tankathon: http://www.tankathon.com/

Fall for Ball!
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 9:22 pm    Post subject:

KindCrippler2000 wrote:
And just like that, Lakers are 4th on tankathon: http://www.tankathon.com/

Fall for Ball!


I did five sims and in only one we didn't keep the pick. In two we moved up to #2!
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adkindo
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 9:32 pm    Post subject:

greenfrog wrote:
KindCrippler2000 wrote:
And just like that, Lakers are 4th on tankathon: http://www.tankathon.com/

Fall for Ball!


I did five sims and in only one we didn't keep the pick. In two we moved up to #2!


I did 10x about a week ago, and we kept the pick twice...once the #1 and once the #2....but that was when we were @ 25%...now we are @ 38% chance of keeping pick and closing in on a 47% chance...

Update, just did 10 simulations, and we kept the pick 6 times!
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Yong
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 9:52 pm    Post subject:

Fall for Ball
Lulz for Fultz

:tank:
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KeepItRealOrElse
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 10:00 pm    Post subject:

Wolves bout to get that dub, yes!!!
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 10:03 pm    Post subject:

^ jinx!
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 10:03 pm    Post subject:

And add another notch on the Sherman.
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KeepItRealOrElse
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 10:03 pm    Post subject:

greenfrog wrote:
^ jinx!


law of attraction!
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justsomelakerfan
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PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 11:16 pm    Post subject:


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PostPosted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 11:24 pm    Post subject:

Wow, can't believe this is another top 5 tank season.
With a high probability that all this (bleep) goes to the Sixers who already have their franchise player.
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