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mhan00
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 Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2016 12:53 am Post subject: |
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My position hasn't changed: I'm not clamoring for Jim to get fired (or if he resigns), but I sure won't cry any tears or complain if he is. It's starting to look like four straight years out of the playoffs, three of which we set record lows in franchise wins in straight years. Certainly our free agent acquisitions and misses have been disappointing (and some of the targets we were going after would have been horrible signings if they didn't turn us down flat), and the final verdict is still pending for our draft picks, though they are looking promising. Of course, it's hard to give too much credit for basically failing our way to records so bad we were lucky enough to keep our picks, but even our late round and second round picks have been very promising.
I just don't think the Lakers should make any reactionary moves and they need to have a plan in place if they do move on from Jim (and possibly Mitch too). I don't think Phil should be the guy, even if the Knicks look pretty decent and have a very good shot at the playoffs if they stay healthy (big if). If they don't have an excellent candidate in mind (and I don't know enough about front office personnel to be able to judge who would be one), then rolling with Jim and giving him a couple more years even if we miss the playoffs again to see this through wouldn't be the worst thing. He and Mitch either succeed and we continue to make strides into the playoffs, or they use the extra rope to finish tying the noose so there's no second guessing if we do make a change. |
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laker4life
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Joined: 26 Nov 2001
Posts: 7324
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| Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2016 1:01 am Post subject: |
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| Inspector Gadget wrote: | | Jim Buss isn't going anywhere and if Dr.Buss was alive he would be supporting his son. |
Seriously, how do you reach that conclusion?
No one knows what will happen with Jim Buss or what Dr. Buss would have done regarding his son.
You are probably right that Jim Buss "is not going anywhere". However, it is possible he may be force to leave his position with the team or he will simply decide to resign. He is a part owner and will likely remain a part owner. |
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Omar Little
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| Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2016 1:18 am Post subject: |
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| mhan00 wrote: | My position hasn't changed: I'm not clamoring for Jim to get fired (or if he resigns), but I sure won't cry any tears or complain if he is. It's starting to look like four straight years out of the playoffs, three of which we set record lows in franchise wins in straight years. Certainly our free agent acquisitions and misses have been disappointing (and some of the targets we were going after would have been horrible signings if they didn't turn us down flat), and the final verdict is still pending for our draft picks, though they are looking promising. Of course, it's hard to give too much credit for basically failing our way to records so bad we were lucky enough to keep our picks, but even our late round and second round picks have been very promising.
I just don't think the Lakers should make any reactionary moves and they need to have a plan in place if they do move on from Jim (and possibly Mitch too). I don't think Phil should be the guy, even if the Knicks look pretty decent and have a very good shot at the playoffs if they stay healthy (big if). If they don't have an excellent candidate in mind (and I don't know enough about front office personnel to be able to judge who would be one), then rolling with Jim and giving him a couple more years even if we miss the playoffs again to see this through wouldn't be the worst thing. He and Mitch either succeed and we continue to make strides into the playoffs, or they use the extra rope to finish tying the noose so there's no second guessing if we do make a change. |
Agreed or disagree on the details, one very wise thing in this post is the concept is don't leap until you have a landing place you like better than where you are jumping.
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Daphanabe
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Joined: 24 Nov 2007
Posts: 2768
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| Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2016 2:15 am Post subject: |
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| Omar Little wrote: | | cathy78 wrote: | | Daphanabe wrote: | | Can't wait for Jim Buss to get replaced. It's been all downhill since he fully took over. |
So who should take his place then? |
That's a silly question. Someone great of course. Never-ending that they don't even agree on who that is or understand that someone in actual ownership has ultimate owner say, thus it is a choice between the Buss siblings. |
If I were the Buss', they should just count their money and let someone professional run the team. What qualifications does Jim have actually to hold his position?
As to who should take his place -- President of Basketball Operations needs to be someone in the business. How about nepotism central -- West as President, and his son as GM. |
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justsomelakerfan
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Joined: 16 Jul 2016
Posts: 10939
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| Posted: Fri Dec 23, 2016 9:03 am Post subject: |
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| Omar Little wrote: | | mhan00 wrote: | My position hasn't changed: I'm not clamoring for Jim to get fired (or if he resigns), but I sure won't cry any tears or complain if he is. It's starting to look like four straight years out of the playoffs, three of which we set record lows in franchise wins in straight years. Certainly our free agent acquisitions and misses have been disappointing (and some of the targets we were going after would have been horrible signings if they didn't turn us down flat), and the final verdict is still pending for our draft picks, though they are looking promising. Of course, it's hard to give too much credit for basically failing our way to records so bad we were lucky enough to keep our picks, but even our late round and second round picks have been very promising.
I just don't think the Lakers should make any reactionary moves and they need to have a plan in place if they do move on from Jim (and possibly Mitch too). I don't think Phil should be the guy, even if the Knicks look pretty decent and have a very good shot at the playoffs if they stay healthy (big if). If they don't have an excellent candidate in mind (and I don't know enough about front office personnel to be able to judge who would be one), then rolling with Jim and giving him a couple more years even if we miss the playoffs again to see this through wouldn't be the worst thing. He and Mitch either succeed and we continue to make strides into the playoffs, or they use the extra rope to finish tying the noose so there's no second guessing if we do make a change. |
Agreed or disagree on the details, one very wise thing in this post is the concept is don't leap until you have a landing place you like better than where you are jumping. |
Agree with this too. I have mixed feelings about Jim & Mitch, but I want to roll with them unless we hear about a candidate who I feel more confident about righting this ship. That's why I asked earlier, if Phil were to stay in New York (also, please stay!), who could we really be looking at? If the Buss kids make the decision, who knows? I have some faith in at least Jesse and Joey Buss to make a good pick, I think.
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venturalakersfan
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Joined: 14 Apr 2001
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Location: The Gold Coast
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| Posted: Sat Dec 24, 2016 10:31 am Post subject: |
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There is no deadline, but it looks like Jim's PR move worked very well on some fans. Show the bait and they will bite.
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RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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justsomelakerfan
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Joined: 16 Jul 2016
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| Posted: Sat Dec 24, 2016 1:58 pm Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | There is no deadline, but it looks like Jim's PR move worked very well on some fans. Show the bait and they will bite. |
wait, PR MOVE?!
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slavavov
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| Posted: Sat Dec 24, 2016 2:05 pm Post subject: |
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I've been hard on Jim Buss, mostly over his coaching hires, but maybe he and the rest of the FO is starting to figure it out and get with the times. Luke was definitely the right hire. We just need to realize that rebuilding, especially after you win 5 rings with the greatest player of his era and arguably the greatest coach ever, is a long and painful process. Let's try to enjoy the process and realize that every setback we have is an opportunity for growth and learning.
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splashmtn
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Joined: 30 Aug 2016
Posts: 3961
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| Posted: Sun Dec 25, 2016 11:13 am Post subject: Re: Jim Buss timeline revisited: he has one more year. January 6 2018 would be his last day if he doesn't turn it around |
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can't blame young players for losses? In what world do you live in where you can't?
Now just say you just want him gone and call it a day.
Young players = losses unless said young guys are lebron james fresh out of high school.
Kevin durant was a super scorer out of college. But the young durant was a loser in a seattle jersey. Those are the facts.
Come to think about it didnt him and westbrook lose together as two young guys before they had a few years in the nba together?
Sorry laker fans it takes time. And get use to this setup with these last two cbas. Because thats how its going to be in the future when say our current young core starts to get old and it's time to go the draft route again. |
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clutchkobe
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Joined: 18 Sep 2005
Posts: 1982
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| Posted: Mon Dec 26, 2016 1:37 pm Post subject: |
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| all of you who keep saying we are heading in the right direction....exactly what is that direction. State what you have and not the dreams you wish you could become. you have young talent and you dont know how that is going to turn out.....all the young talent , might not ever produce dividends...some of them might....but we do know the odds tell us....not all of them will. Superstar talent can be seen right away.....i dont know about you guys but i see two guys with star talent that can be seen today....Ingram and larry nance jr......russell, randolph,jordan clarkson will probably be good players but not great players. Porsengis was a true talent who was not chosen by mitch and jim. Just like all of you thought we would make the playoffs with this roster....which is a crazy dream. Stop trying to pretend like you got all these all stars in the making....you do not have them. so exactly what direction....lottery every year......stop dreaming and be realistic. |
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fontana3d
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Joined: 22 Mar 2013
Posts: 3794
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| Posted: Mon Dec 26, 2016 2:53 pm Post subject: |
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| clutchkobe wrote: | | all of you who keep saying we are heading in the right direction....exactly what is that direction. State what you have and not the dreams you wish you could become. you have young talent and you dont know how that is going to turn out.....all the young talent , might not ever produce dividends...some of them might....but we do know the odds tell us....not all of them will. Superstar talent can be seen right away.....i dont know about you guys but i see two guys with star talent that can be seen today....Ingram and larry nance jr......russell, randolph,jordan clarkson will probably be good players but not great players. Porsengis was a true talent who was not chosen by mitch and jim. Just like all of you thought we would make the playoffs with this roster....which is a crazy dream. Stop trying to pretend like you got all these all stars in the making....you do not have them. so exactly what direction....lottery every year......stop dreaming and be realistic. |
this year lottery, next year no because Philly takes our pick away. |
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laker4life
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Joined: 26 Nov 2001
Posts: 7324
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| Posted: Mon Dec 26, 2016 10:50 pm Post subject: |
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| clutchkobe wrote: | | all of you who keep saying we are heading in the right direction....exactly what is that direction. State what you have and not the dreams you wish you could become. you have young talent and you dont know how that is going to turn out.....all the young talent , might not ever produce dividends...some of them might....but we do know the odds tell us....not all of them will. Superstar talent can be seen right away.....i dont know about you guys but i see two guys with star talent that can be seen today....Ingram and larry nance jr......russell, randolph,jordan clarkson will probably be good players but not great players. Porsengis was a true talent who was not chosen by mitch and jim. Just like all of you thought we would make the playoffs with this roster....which is a crazy dream. Stop trying to pretend like you got all these all stars in the making....you do not have them. so exactly what direction....lottery every year......stop dreaming and be realistic. |
Larry Nance, Jr. will be a good player. In my opinion, he will not be a star.
Russell and Ingram have a chance to be a star because of their age. They are still young. |
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giordan0
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| Posted: Tue Dec 27, 2016 12:06 am Post subject: |
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The other question in the equation is;
Would GM Phil be able to turn this around? Given his preference for old veterans which clashes with the new CBA doctrine (it values franchises that are willing to grow players). |
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kikanga
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Location: La La Land
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| Posted: Tue Dec 27, 2016 12:37 am Post subject: |
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Last playoffs. Some people on LG thought (1) we had a good chance of signing DRoz in the offseason and (2) we'd be better off if we didn't sign DRoz because DRoz is "flawed".
That kinda reminds me of the way people talk about Phil coming back to the Lakers. They assume it will happen if Jim steps down. And alot of people assume we'd be worse off if Phil did return.
Just like DRoz. We'll never find out. He isn't coming here. Knicks have an above .500 record and are fighting for home court in the playoffs. Phil isn't leaving that to come here.
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venturalakersfan
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Location: The Gold Coast
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| Posted: Tue Dec 27, 2016 9:00 am Post subject: |
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Phil isn't ownership, if Jim is gone a Buss will still be signing off on player deals. Be it Johnny, Jesse or Joey, or another sibling, it won't be Phil. Because again, Phil isn't ownership.
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justsomelakerfan
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| Posted: Tue Dec 27, 2016 9:52 am Post subject: |
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| giordan0 wrote: | The other question in the equation is;
Would GM Phil be able to turn this around? Given his preference for old veterans which clashes with the new CBA doctrine (it values franchises that are willing to grow players). |
My hope is that Jeanie and Phil, mainly Jeanie, would prefer to keep their relationship outside of the business operations of the Lakers. It strikes me as an odd move for Jeanie who, despite as self-absorbed as she portrays herself through her hit pieces, ultimately does want the Lakers franchise to be successful. It reads more like she's frustrated and done with Jim, and less that she's dead-set on bringing Phil over, although it is definitely a domino that could fall by cutting out Jim. There would be a lot of negative PR around bringing Phil back to the Lakers, kind of killing their positive momentum they have from bringing in Luke.
If Phil came here, we're looking at a win now mentality. We could see some of the young guys go. We could see Luke go given how he micro managed Hornacek. He built something that is winning in New York right now, sort of, but how sustainable is it?
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clutchkobe
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| Posted: Tue Dec 27, 2016 11:29 am Post subject: |
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jeanie was the one groomed to take over the lakers.....not jim. Jeanie loves the lakers just as much as all the busses i assume do. I dont think phil is jeanies move anymore. He looks like he is happy where he is. We need to go back and get the best gm in the game to come over and run our department.
the mediocre, not sure of what he is doing and falling into directions is not going to cut it. We need the best. Thats why the lakers were always on top. Jerry made a mistake about jim....it has to be corrected and move on. they dye has been cast. If jeanie backs down on what she has said over the last three years and lets jim stay....who believes anything she says. Someone has to be held accountable for the past 5 years so they can move forward. |
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999
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| Posted: Mon Jan 16, 2017 4:55 pm Post subject: |
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| If I dont see any changes by the Oct-Dec of the 2018 season than there we as fans should hold Jim Buss accountable for what he said in the LA Times |
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laker4life
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| Posted: Mon Jan 16, 2017 5:12 pm Post subject: |
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| 999 wrote: | | If I dont see any changes by the Oct-Dec of the 2018 season than there we as fans should hold Jim Buss accountable for what he said in the LA Times |
Do not worry. There will be fans out there calling for some accountability. |
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Boldarblood
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| Posted: Mon Jan 16, 2017 5:25 pm Post subject: |
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| laker4life wrote: | | 999 wrote: | | If I dont see any changes by the Oct-Dec of the 2018 season than there we as fans should hold Jim Buss accountable for what he said in the LA Times |
Do not worry. There will be fans out there calling for some accountability. |
There is an old saying from the NFL that applies here.
“If you listen to the fans, you’ll find yourself sitting with them”
--Philadelphia Eagles football coach Joe Kuharich
Who cares if fans call out for accountability. It won't do a thing. |
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Theseus
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| Posted: Mon Jan 16, 2017 5:32 pm Post subject: |
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People just like to see blood.
This team is headed in a good direction and can compete with some more development and health.
We have even recently seen good development for Zubac, so that should be even more encouraging to go with our lottery picks we have what looks to be lottery talent in Zubac. |
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fontana3d
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Posts: 3794
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| Posted: Mon Jan 16, 2017 5:39 pm Post subject: |
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| clutchkobe wrote: | jeanie was the one groomed to take over the lakers.....not jim. Jeanie loves the lakers just as much as all the busses i assume do. I dont think phil is jeanies move anymore. He looks like he is happy where he is. We need to go back and get the best gm in the game to come over and run our department.
the mediocre, not sure of what he is doing and falling into directions is not going to cut it. We need the best. Thats why the lakers were always on top. Jerry made a mistake about jim....it has to be corrected and move on. they dye has been cast. If jeanie backs down on what she has said over the last three years and lets jim stay....who believes anything she says. Someone has to be held accountable for the past 5 years so they can move forward. |
I'm sorry the reason why he didn't do because he didn't a woman can run a business and why did you we went through marriages, and escorts for? |
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Treble Clef
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Joined: 20 Nov 2012
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| Posted: Mon Jan 16, 2017 5:50 pm Post subject: |
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Obviously Mitch wouldn't be allowed to say but do we really have any info that Jim influences personnel decisions?
For a change to be worthwhile, at least one of these has to be true:
1. Mitch and all of his experience want to take the team one way but his hands are always tied by Jim who forces him into bad decisions.
2. Everyone wants Mitch gone except for Jim, who values him because he is on the same page with him.
I know some people are just resentful that the Buss kids were born into billions but there's nothing we can do to make that fair for the rest of us who won't inherit a great fortune. |
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Krispy Kreme
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Joined: 30 Mar 2003
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| Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 12:04 pm Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | There is no deadline, but it looks like Jim's PR move worked very well on some fans. Show the bait and they will bite. |
PR move? It was stupid. Why? Because Jim isn't going to honor what he said. Which makes him look like a liar, or a guy who says things just to say things in the media. An empty "promise" to laker fans. Fact.
When was the last time an owner made a statement like that? That he had X years, or he'd step down?
Stupid all the way around. But of course you twist and manipulate it to seem like Jim gets the last laugh. Figures.
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defense
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| Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 12:07 pm Post subject: |
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| Jim Buss just said that so you would remain interested and keep spending your money on the Lakers, and it worked. He's going no where, let it go. |
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