Mitch Kupchak needs to go
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justsomelakerfan
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2017 11:06 am    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
justsomelakerfan wrote:
akk7 wrote:
ocho wrote:
The not talking to free agents until midnight thing is inexcusable.


Why so? Curious what you mean. He's following the rules. To a fault for sure. I wonder if the article is exaggerating by 1) saying he only talks to them once the clock hits 12:00. And 2) he's the only one in the entire league to follow the rules.

I wouldn't be surprised at all if it's true though. Mitch seems like a guy who follows the code of ethics to a T and plays by the rules. He's even said he's not a true believer of karma or anything, but it's not something he wants to mess with and doesn't believe the ends justify the means. He was referring to tanking/not competing when saying these things though.


Because no one else follows the rules, and recruitment goes back much farther than the summer of free agency. Someone posted a Woj video essay earlier in this thread about this with some good thoughts about it. Playing fair isn't going to get us to sign talent.


So you give up your integrity to succeed? Pathetic.


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2017 11:07 am    Post subject:

Integrity doesn't get you very far in entertainment. It can help, but when you're surrounded by sharks you have to adapt.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2017 11:09 am    Post subject:

It has gotten Mitch to 4 titles, it is hard for me to complain.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2017 11:12 am    Post subject:

ocho wrote:
akk7 wrote:
ocho wrote:
The not talking to free agents until midnight thing is inexcusable.


Why so? Curious what you mean. He's following the rules. To a fault for sure. I wonder if the article is exaggerating by 1) saying he only talks to them once the clock hits 12:00. And 2) he's the only one in the entire league to follow the rules.

I wouldn't be surprised at all if it's true though. Mitch seems like a guy who follows the code of ethics to a T and plays by the rules. He's even said he's not a true believer of karma or anything, but it's not something he wants to mess with and doesn't believe the ends justify the means. He was referring to tanking/not competing when saying these things though.


Look I respect his ethics. He's a good guy. But he's also bringing a plastic fork to a gun fight. The Warriors worked KD for a year before Free Agency. He's derelict in his responsibilities by hindering the teams FA efforts in that manner.


I can see that perspective for sure and I'd probably lean towards agreeing with it. It's sad that integrity is lost at times lol.

How did the Warriors work KD for a year? I do know Draymond was in his ear for a while. What else? And honestly all this stuff about having the big dogs talk to players and stuff sounds good on paper, but let's be real, KD saw how good the Warriors were, how much fun they were having, didn't feel like OKC had enough, possibly didn't like playing with Westbrook at times, and GS lost in the finals, which all made him choose the Warriors. At the end of the day it was significantly about basketball.

If the Lakers were good on the court, players would come. I really think it's that simple.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2017 11:15 am    Post subject:

article mighta dry snitched on us in the future and we dont even know it yet

somebody gon tell on us in 2022 fam watch

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2017 11:18 am    Post subject:

akk7 wrote:
ocho wrote:
akk7 wrote:
ocho wrote:
The not talking to free agents until midnight thing is inexcusable.


Why so? Curious what you mean. He's following the rules. To a fault for sure. I wonder if the article is exaggerating by 1) saying he only talks to them once the clock hits 12:00. And 2) he's the only one in the entire league to follow the rules.

I wouldn't be surprised at all if it's true though. Mitch seems like a guy who follows the code of ethics to a T and plays by the rules. He's even said he's not a true believer of karma or anything, but it's not something he wants to mess with and doesn't believe the ends justify the means. He was referring to tanking/not competing when saying these things though.


Look I respect his ethics. He's a good guy. But he's also bringing a plastic fork to a gun fight. The Warriors worked KD for a year before Free Agency. He's derelict in his responsibilities by hindering the teams FA efforts in that manner.


I can see that perspective for sure and I'd probably lean towards agreeing with it. It's sad that integrity is lost at times lol.

How did the Warriors work KD for a year? I do know Draymond was in his ear for a while. What else? And honestly all this stuff about having the big dogs talk to players and stuff sounds good on paper, but let's be real, KD saw how good the Warriors were, how much fun they were having, didn't feel like OKC had enough, possibly didn't like playing with Westbrook at times, and GS lost in the finals, which all made him choose the Warriors. At the end of the day it was significantly about basketball.

If the Lakers were good on the court, players would come. I really think it's that simple.


It doesn't have to be one thing that gets a player to sign. It can be multiple things. The fact that Mitch is the only guy in the league who handicaps himself this way should tell you something. Obviously being a good team is the main driver for players who think about signing. But when we make our call at 9:01 there are several other teams that have already laid ground work.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2017 11:19 am    Post subject:

The Shelburne article is painful to read, but it has the ring of truth to it. However much savvy Mitch and the front office have shown in the draft, it's absolutely clear to all but their most stubborn defenders how terrible they've been in free agency since Jerry and then Phil left. Their strategy is antiquated, their presentations unconvincing, and their vision non-existent. Long gone are the days where the second and third tier free agents are content to sit around and wait for the almighty Lakers to call once they've lost out on their initial targets. Unfortunately by the time Mitch and Jim finally got the memo this past summer and realized they had to act more decisively, they chose to blow their wad on Mozgov and Deng. So either way, really, their judgment has been exceedingly poor.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2017 11:25 am    Post subject:

richsmith wrote:
The Shelburne article is painful to read, but it has the ring of truth to it. However much savvy Mitch and the front office have shown in the draft, it's absolutely clear to all but their most stubborn defenders how terrible they've been in free agency since Jerry and then Phil left. Their strategy is antiquated, their presentations unconvincing, and their vision non-existent. Long gone are the days where the second and third tier free agents are content to sit around and wait for the almighty Lakers to call once they've lost out on their initial targets. Unfortunately by the time Mitch and Jim finally got the memo this past summer and realized they had to act more decisively, they chose to blow their wad on Mozgov and Deng. So either way, really, their judgment has been exceedingly poor.


I'd like to see Mitch stay with the team in a role where he scouts and gives input on the draft. He's an elite evaluator in that regard.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2017 11:25 am    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
It has gotten Mitch to 4 titles, it is hard for me to complain.


Let's cling on to the past. That's a great recipe for success. Inheriting Kobe and Shaq got Mitch to 4 titles. It's clear what he can(not) do without a top 10 HOF. 4 straight lottery seasons is more relevant to discuss the performance of a GM over 4 titles.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2017 11:48 am    Post subject:

jim buss made a statement that he would step down if he didnt reach a certain marker........you cant now say i dont want to do that.....no trust in him
period of what he says or does. he has to have some integrity and do what he said he was going to do. I wont believe anything going forward of what he says....i will never believe in anything he does. Be a man......daddy's not here because he would hold you to it. Resign
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2017 11:51 am    Post subject:

ocho wrote:
richsmith wrote:
The Shelburne article is painful to read, but it has the ring of truth to it. However much savvy Mitch and the front office have shown in the draft, it's absolutely clear to all but their most stubborn defenders how terrible they've been in free agency since Jerry and then Phil left. Their strategy is antiquated, their presentations unconvincing, and their vision non-existent. Long gone are the days where the second and third tier free agents are content to sit around and wait for the almighty Lakers to call once they've lost out on their initial targets. Unfortunately by the time Mitch and Jim finally got the memo this past summer and realized they had to act more decisively, they chose to blow their wad on Mozgov and Deng. So either way, really, their judgment has been exceedingly poor.


I'd like to see Mitch stay with the team in a role where he scouts and gives input on the draft. He's an elite evaluator in that regard.

Yes, I agree with that. It really would be the best case scenario if West came back. He concentrates on free agency, Mitch on the draft, Magic is the smiley-happy front man, and together they all mentor Ryan West to take over within the next 5 years. Meanwhile, Jim Buss gets sent back to Chaz's bar to gamble on the geegees. Everyone wins.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2017 11:53 am    Post subject:

anpherknee wrote:
apparently all mans gotta do is start dabbling in some tampering and we gon be all good guise

That extra bit of tampering would've gotten us Kevin Durant for sure.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2017 11:57 am    Post subject:

ocho wrote:
richsmith wrote:
The Shelburne article is painful to read, but it has the ring of truth to it. However much savvy Mitch and the front office have shown in the draft, it's absolutely clear to all but their most stubborn defenders how terrible they've been in free agency since Jerry and then Phil left. Their strategy is antiquated, their presentations unconvincing, and their vision non-existent. Long gone are the days where the second and third tier free agents are content to sit around and wait for the almighty Lakers to call once they've lost out on their initial targets. Unfortunately by the time Mitch and Jim finally got the memo this past summer and realized they had to act more decisively, they chose to blow their wad on Mozgov and Deng. So either way, really, their judgment has been exceedingly poor.


I'd like to see Mitch stay with the team in a role where he scouts and gives input on the draft. He's an elite evaluator in that regard.


Mitch would be a good consultant. Since we are going youth movement, why not promote Jesse and Ryan West and make Magic, Mitch and Jerry West consultants? Some steady veterans to guide the youth.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2017 11:58 am    Post subject:

Here's an interesting concept. What if we, instead of going back to the Buss well to run basketball ops, just hire the most qualified G.M. once Mitch retires/resigns, etc.?
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2017 11:59 am    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
ocho wrote:
richsmith wrote:
The Shelburne article is painful to read, but it has the ring of truth to it. However much savvy Mitch and the front office have shown in the draft, it's absolutely clear to all but their most stubborn defenders how terrible they've been in free agency since Jerry and then Phil left. Their strategy is antiquated, their presentations unconvincing, and their vision non-existent. Long gone are the days where the second and third tier free agents are content to sit around and wait for the almighty Lakers to call once they've lost out on their initial targets. Unfortunately by the time Mitch and Jim finally got the memo this past summer and realized they had to act more decisively, they chose to blow their wad on Mozgov and Deng. So either way, really, their judgment has been exceedingly poor.


I'd like to see Mitch stay with the team in a role where he scouts and gives input on the draft. He's an elite evaluator in that regard.


Mitch would be a good consultant. Since we are going youth movement, why not promote Jesse and Ryan West and make Magic, Mitch and Jerry West consultants? Some steady veterans to guide the youth.




I could see this article being the first step in that plan and would be all for it
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2017 11:59 am    Post subject:

GasolBynumKobe wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
It has gotten Mitch to 4 titles, it is hard for me to complain.


Let's cling on to the past. That's a great recipe for success. Inheriting Kobe and Shaq got Mitch to 4 titles. It's clear what he can(not) do without a top 10 HOF. 4 straight lottery seasons is more relevant to discuss the performance of a GM over 4 titles.


That is exactly what Jeanie is doing. I will always be thankful for the titles that West got us after inheriting Magic and Kareem and also the titles that Mitch got for us. And I won't complain that there aren't more.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2017 12:01 pm    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
Here's an interesting concept. What if we, instead of going back to the Buss well to run basketball ops, just hire the most qualified G.M. once Mitch retires/resigns, etc.?


Because there will always be a Buss kid signing off on personnel deals. That doesn't mean that you can't hire another GM, but that GM will be working under a Buss kid.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2017 12:09 pm    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
Here's an interesting concept. What if we, instead of going back to the Buss well to run basketball ops, just hire the most qualified G.M. once Mitch retires/resigns, etc.?


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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2017 12:33 pm    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Here's an interesting concept. What if we, instead of going back to the Buss well to run basketball ops, just hire the most qualified G.M. once Mitch retires/resigns, etc.?


Because there will always be a Buss kid signing off on personnel deals. That doesn't mean that you can't hire another GM, but that GM will be working under a Buss kid.


I get what you're saying. In some regards Jim isn't really acting as the VP of Basketball Ops, he's acting as the owner. I think the real distinction of importance here is that he has been given a firewall from the other 'owners' in basketball decision making. What he's done with that has been questioned. Had he been a bit more savvy he would have taken a different approach to communication, at least with Jeanie. I know that can be difficult if he assumes she's out to get him. But there are ways to handle that, even if it's just to manage public perception (enemy's closer kind of thing if that's what he thinks).

IMO the two operating questions are whether or not to pierce the firewall, and if yes whether or not to hire a legit VP who answers to 'Ownership' which would essentially be Jeanie as a consensus builder among her siblings. For that to work the politics of the Buss kids have to be in check.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2017 12:41 pm    Post subject:

Laker's Fan wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Here's an interesting concept. What if we, instead of going back to the Buss well to run basketball ops, just hire the most qualified G.M. once Mitch retires/resigns, etc.?


Because there will always be a Buss kid signing off on personnel deals. That doesn't mean that you can't hire another GM, but that GM will be working under a Buss kid.


I get what you're saying. In some regards Jim isn't really acting as the VP of Basketball Ops, he's acting as the owner. I think the real distinction of importance here is that he has been given a firewall from the other 'owners' in basketball decision making. What he's done with that has been questioned. Had he been a bit more savvy he would have taken a different approach to communication, at least with Jeanie. I know that can be difficult if he assumes she's out to get him. But there are ways to handle that, even if it's just to manage public perception (enemy's closer kind of thing if that's what he thinks).

IMO the two operating questions are whether or not to pierce the firewall, and if yes whether or not to hire a legit VP who answers to 'Ownership' which would essentially be Jeanie as a consensus builder among her siblings. For that to work the politics of the Buss kids have to be in check.


As many have posted here since Dr. Buss passed, those are the trappings of a group of children inheriting a large corporation. They grew up with privilege, none except Janie ever did anything on their own. Every thing was give to them by their father. It should be no surprise that jealousy and factions developed. How they handle that and not damage the Lakers will be interesting to see. Maybe Magic is a step in the right direction, I feel that anything he does will be in the best interests of the Lakers and not Jeanie or Jim.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2017 1:03 pm    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
justsomelakerfan wrote:
Ramona is incredible at what she does. She's like Ding without the diabolical snark.



Ramona gets her information from the same sources Ding does. Girlpower!


Ramona is clearly extremely good at her job. She's a woman who has found some impressive success in the sports media world, which is dominated mostly by men. The women who do thrive in this environment tend to be those who are considered traditionally attractive, and with no offense intended for Ramona, she breaks that mold in that she isn't a thin waisted woman wearing short skirts/dresses. I hope you were sincere and not trying to belittle Ramona with your little girl power comment, since Ramona has likely worked two or three times harder than her colleagues to establish herself as a credible writer/media personality.
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ocho
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2017 1:46 pm    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
ocho wrote:
richsmith wrote:
The Shelburne article is painful to read, but it has the ring of truth to it. However much savvy Mitch and the front office have shown in the draft, it's absolutely clear to all but their most stubborn defenders how terrible they've been in free agency since Jerry and then Phil left. Their strategy is antiquated, their presentations unconvincing, and their vision non-existent. Long gone are the days where the second and third tier free agents are content to sit around and wait for the almighty Lakers to call once they've lost out on their initial targets. Unfortunately by the time Mitch and Jim finally got the memo this past summer and realized they had to act more decisively, they chose to blow their wad on Mozgov and Deng. So either way, really, their judgment has been exceedingly poor.


I'd like to see Mitch stay with the team in a role where he scouts and gives input on the draft. He's an elite evaluator in that regard.


Mitch would be a good consultant. Since we are going youth movement, why not promote Jesse and Ryan West and make Magic, Mitch and Jerry West consultants? Some steady veterans to guide the youth.


Sounds good to me!
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2017 1:54 pm    Post subject:

ocho wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
ocho wrote:
richsmith wrote:
The Shelburne article is painful to read, but it has the ring of truth to it. However much savvy Mitch and the front office have shown in the draft, it's absolutely clear to all but their most stubborn defenders how terrible they've been in free agency since Jerry and then Phil left. Their strategy is antiquated, their presentations unconvincing, and their vision non-existent. Long gone are the days where the second and third tier free agents are content to sit around and wait for the almighty Lakers to call once they've lost out on their initial targets. Unfortunately by the time Mitch and Jim finally got the memo this past summer and realized they had to act more decisively, they chose to blow their wad on Mozgov and Deng. So either way, really, their judgment has been exceedingly poor.


I'd like to see Mitch stay with the team in a role where he scouts and gives input on the draft. He's an elite evaluator in that regard.


Mitch would be a good consultant. Since we are going youth movement, why not promote Jesse and Ryan West and make Magic, Mitch and Jerry West consultants? Some steady veterans to guide the youth.


Sounds good to me!

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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2017 1:55 pm    Post subject:

What's with the recent Jesse Buss love. It's funny how narratives can be influenced by the media (small written pieces, etc) in an instant. He gets linked with the recent picks and now he's loved.

This dude was getting murdered on here for getting caught pissing on the street a few years ago.

This is one of Jim's biggest failures. He didn't know how to play the politics and create his own narrative. It's important.
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PostPosted: Wed Feb 08, 2017 1:58 pm    Post subject:

akk7 wrote:
What's with the recent Jesse Buss love. It's funny how narratives can be influenced by the media (small written pieces, etc) in an instant. He gets linked with the recent picks and now he's loved.

This dude was getting murdered on here for getting caught pissing on the street a few years ago.

This is one of Jim's biggest failures. He didn't know how to play the politics and create his own narrative. It's important.


So a Jesse Buss Piss and Moan thread would be appropriate.
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