View previous topic :: View next topic |
Author |
Message |
Purp 32 Star Player
Joined: 12 Jul 2014 Posts: 2154 Location: Inglewood, CA
|
Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 5:07 am Post subject: |
|
|
I mean we've been one of the worst teams in the league the past 4 years. Saying that we have 6 young guys in our rotation isn't an accomplishment. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
nash Star Player
Joined: 23 Oct 2001 Posts: 8194
|
Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 5:46 am Post subject: |
|
|
Purp 32 wrote: | I mean we've been one of the worst teams in the league the past 4 years. Saying that we have 6 young guys in our rotation isn't an accomplishment. |
I'm not going to judge our two 19 years old draft picks yet, I like both of them, but overall I have the same bitter feeling.
Last edited by nash on Wed Jan 18, 2017 6:06 am; edited 1 time in total |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Purp 32 Star Player
Joined: 12 Jul 2014 Posts: 2154 Location: Inglewood, CA
|
Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 5:53 am Post subject: |
|
|
nash wrote: | Purp 32 wrote: | I mean we've been one of the worst teams in the league the past 4 years. Saying that we have 6 young guys in our rotation isn't an accomplishment. |
I'm not going to judge our two 19 years oldraft picks yet, I like both ofor them, but overall I have the same bitter feeling. |
I like the young guys, but they're playing because our roster has been poorly constructed, not because they're necessarily ready to consistently contribute. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
dcarter4kobe Franchise Player
Joined: 30 Jul 2005 Posts: 17656
|
Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 6:50 am Post subject: |
|
|
Laker_Dynasty_01 wrote: | dcarter4kobe wrote: | Laker_Dynasty_01 wrote: | dcarter4kobe wrote: | activeverb wrote: | dcarter4kobe wrote: | Nothing would have happened if we didn't reach the floor except players on our roster would have got paid extra. Worst case that happens and you stockpile 2nd round draft picks from teams looking to dump salary. |
Fans would have gone berserked, screaming that the front office should have signed veteran free agents to create a culture and allow the young guys to develop.
I wasn't a fan of either the Mosgov or Deng contract but you're kidding yourself if you think there wouldn't be massive fallout from staying $30 million under cap and using those roster spots on a couple of d leaguers. |
Moves like this is why it's not nessecary to reach the salary floor in the summer. Especially if you're just spending to burn money.
https://twitter.com/hpbasketball/status/821612516748984320 |
Nick Young was on his way to being cut, or at least buried on the bench. By not signing Deng, Brandon Ingram would have been projected to be leaned upon heavily in his rookie season, not a sound strategy for bringing him along. By not signing Mozgov, Zubac is thrust into the spotlight too soon. |
You do realize Mozgov/Deng weren't the only free agents available? Other guys might not have had the known name as a Mozgov or Deng but they were other options there.
Dedmon, Aldrich, Nene, Monroe (was available in trade), Hibbert (!)
Joe Johnson, J.Green, J.Ennis, Mbah a Moute, BRush
Not the ideal players of course but Keep in mind MozDeng is combinded playing negative replacement level basketball |
Deng had a better 2016 season than any FA on that list, and wasn't expected to be this bad. His main problem is the lack of a playmaking teammate that can draw a help defender and get the offense started. Dedmon is atrocious outside of a system like San Antonio's, with all that experience around him. Paying an experienced player like Moz seemed like a better option, although the lack of an amnesty provision now makes the move more financially painful.
"Replacement level" is misleading, as players of that status as measured by metrics are not as easy to come by as the name would lead you to believe. Some guys who are outperforming MozDeng wouldn't do so on the Lakers, who lack any kind of dribble penetration and distribution. |
Deng is clearly the best player on the list. But if 4/72, or anything close, is what it took, we should have moved on to the next guy on the list. Same with Mozgov. Our very own Tarik Black is outplaying Mozgov with the same lack of dribble penetration and distribution. The bar isn't set very high at all. Let's call a spade what it is. Mozgov and Deng were horrible contracts. _________________ "He's a Zen master, so he can speak to you, and he doesn't need a microphone; you can hear him in your head, 'Ron, don't shoot, don't shoot.' Whatever, pow, three. I love the Zen, though." |
|
Back to top |
|
|
fontana3d Star Player
Joined: 22 Mar 2013 Posts: 3794
|
Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 7:07 am Post subject: |
|
|
dcarter4kobe wrote: | Laker_Dynasty_01 wrote: | dcarter4kobe wrote: | Laker_Dynasty_01 wrote: | dcarter4kobe wrote: | activeverb wrote: | dcarter4kobe wrote: | Nothing would have happened if we didn't reach the floor except players on our roster would have got paid extra. Worst case that happens and you stockpile 2nd round draft picks from teams looking to dump salary. |
Fans would have gone berserked, screaming that the front office should have signed veteran free agents to create a culture and allow the young guys to develop.
I wasn't a fan of either the Mosgov or Deng contract but you're kidding yourself if you think there wouldn't be massive fallout from staying $30 million under cap and using those roster spots on a couple of d leaguers. |
Moves like this is why it's not nessecary to reach the salary floor in the summer. Especially if you're just spending to burn money.
https://twitter.com/hpbasketball/status/821612516748984320 |
Nick Young was on his way to being cut, or at least buried on the bench. By not signing Deng, Brandon Ingram would have been projected to be leaned upon heavily in his rookie season, not a sound strategy for bringing him along. By not signing Mozgov, Zubac is thrust into the spotlight too soon. |
You do realize Mozgov/Deng weren't the only free agents available? Other guys might not have had the known name as a Mozgov or Deng but they were other options there.
Dedmon, Aldrich, Nene, Monroe (was available in trade), Hibbert (!)
Joe Johnson, J.Green, J.Ennis, Mbah a Moute, BRush
Not the ideal players of course but Keep in mind MozDeng is combinded playing negative replacement level basketball |
Deng had a better 2016 season than any FA on that list, and wasn't expected to be this bad. His main problem is the lack of a playmaking teammate that can draw a help defender and get the offense started. Dedmon is atrocious outside of a system like San Antonio's, with all that experience around him. Paying an experienced player like Moz seemed like a better option, although the lack of an amnesty provision now makes the move more financially painful.
"Replacement level" is misleading, as players of that status as measured by metrics are not as easy to come by as the name would lead you to believe. Some guys who are outperforming MozDeng wouldn't do so on the Lakers, who lack any kind of dribble penetration and distribution. |
Deng is clearly the best player on the list. But if 4/72, or anything close, is what it took, we should have moved on to the next guy on the list. Same with Mozgov. Our very own Tarik Black is outplaying Mozgov with the same lack of dribble penetration and distribution. The bar isn't set very high at all. Let's call a spade what it is. Mozgov and Deng were horrible contracts. |
Either way it's no win for us because fans will get mad if we didn't sign anyone so really there are no options. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
yinoma2001 Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 119487
|
Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 7:09 am Post subject: |
|
|
I'm very interested to see what Mitch does with Lou/Swaggy.
Lou is at his peak value IMO, and on this team, which is unlikely to make the playoffs, he is sort of a wasted asset. He's a crutch to Luke and a benevolent yet impediment to letting our young guards go through the rough process of playing through struggles.
Young will assuredly opt out and demand at least 10-12m/year for several years. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Dilla_ Star Player
Joined: 25 Oct 2015 Posts: 1274
|
Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 11:46 am Post subject: |
|
|
yinoma2001 wrote: | I'm very interested to see what Mitch does with Lou/Swaggy.
Lou is at his peak value IMO, and on this team, which is unlikely to make the playoffs, he is sort of a wasted asset. He's a crutch to Luke and a benevolent yet impediment to letting our young guards go through the rough process of playing through struggles.
Young will assuredly opt out and demand at least 10-12m/year for several years. |
What do you think the Lakers could get for both of them near the deadline? _________________ Coach MWP. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
venturalakersfan Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144432 Location: The Gold Coast
|
Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 11:49 am Post subject: |
|
|
Probably what we got last season at the deadline. _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
vicman Star Player
Joined: 25 Jun 2005 Posts: 2379 Location: Arcadia
|
Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 12:14 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I think you can get something for Lou and nick if nothing else add them as sweetener to get rid of a contract |
|
Back to top |
|
|
KindCrippler2000 Franchise Player
Joined: 02 May 2003 Posts: 15821
|
Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 12:26 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Purp 32 wrote: | I mean we've been one of the worst teams in the league the past 4 years. Saying that we have 6 young guys in our rotation isn't an accomplishment. |
This is a fair criticism. Lakers were forced to improve via the draft and had no other choice. Any other team that hits the lottery three seasons straight is still going to make improvements, even if they are marginal at best. Of course this doesn't apply to the Brooklyn Nets, but not every owner will mortgage the future the way Prokhorov did. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
laker4life Star Player
Joined: 26 Nov 2001 Posts: 7317
|
Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 4:52 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Dilla_ wrote: | yinoma2001 wrote: | I'm very interested to see what Mitch does with Lou/Swaggy.
Lou is at his peak value IMO, and on this team, which is unlikely to make the playoffs, he is sort of a wasted asset. He's a crutch to Luke and a benevolent yet impediment to letting our young guards go through the rough process of playing through struggles.
Young will assuredly opt out and demand at least 10-12m/year for several years. |
What do you think the Lakers could get for both of them near the deadline? |
Depends where we are in the standing. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
IngramDynasty Sixth Man
Joined: 18 Jan 2017 Posts: 77
|
Posted: Sun Jan 22, 2017 1:37 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I'm just waiting for the BREAKING NEWS at this point...
It's embarrassing how horrendous he is.
"Bu bu but he did the best that he can do..." |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Sina Star Player
Joined: 12 Jul 2015 Posts: 1793
|
Posted: Sun Jan 22, 2017 1:58 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I want to give credit to our front office in improving this team. Whatever it is quick enough, I feel we are on the right track.
We've changed from a team that playing slow pace basketball to a team that can play uptempo style basketball, from a team no fast break threat to a team that could give some pressure in transition, from a team no 3-pointers threat to a team that could compete and out-scored opponents with 3-pointers, from a team with a lot of isolation to a team playing pretty good team ball, the ball is moving and all playing keep cutting or setting pick for others. In short, we've changed to a modern style basketball team.
We have done quit a good job in drafting high lottery picks in Randle, Russell and Ingram as well as late 1st round to 2nd round picks in Clarkson, Nance and Zubac for past consecutive years. We waste almost none of our picks.
For young players development, it seems we have built a good culture. All of them have positive mind set and good attitude. They are coachable and are eager to win. For 3 lottery picks, Randle and Russell have become sketleton of the starting unit while Ingram also become a key part to our 2nd unit. Clarkson and Nance, in their 3rd year and 2nd year, have also become consistent performers. Their development progress are all good.
For free agents, Young and Williams have become consistent contributors. Some may still question the signing of Mozgov and Deng. But they are really needed and have fixed 2 of our biggest weakness links. Mozgov is a big improvement over Hibbert. He gives us the much needed height and size, as well as scoring in the middle. Deng give us a defensive presence on the wing. These 4 free agents, signed with long term contracts, give us so much veteran support so that we could compete and develop our winning culture at this stage. The pick up and signing of Black is also a good move.
We may win just a few more games comparing to last year. But we can compete almost most of the games now, without Kobe. That is very impressive. Our front office waste no picks in drafting, make no mistake in signing free agents for past 3 years and have make a timely decision to hire Walton. That's great achievement and deserve some credits. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
IngramDynasty Sixth Man
Joined: 18 Jan 2017 Posts: 77
|
Posted: Sun Jan 22, 2017 2:02 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Sina wrote: | I want to give credit to our front office in improving this team. Whatever it is quick enough, I feel we are on the right track.
We've changed from a team that playing slow pace basketball to a team that can play uptempo style basketball, from a team no fast break threat to a team that could give some pressure in transition, from a team no 3-pointers threat to a team that could compete and out-scored opponents with 3-pointers, from a team with a lot of isolation to a team playing pretty good team ball, the ball is moving and all playing keep cutting or setting pick for others. In short, we've changed to a modern style basketball team.
We have done quit a good job in drafting high lottery picks in Randle, Russell and Ingram as well as late 1st round to 2nd round picks in Clarkson, Nance and Zubac for past consecutive years. We waste almost none of our picks.
For young players development, it seems we have built a good culture. All of them have positive mind set and good attitude. They are coachable and are eager to win. For 3 lottery picks, Randle and Russell have become sketleton of the starting unit while Ingram also become a key part to our 2nd unit. Clarkson and Nance, in their 3rd year and 2nd year, have also become consistent performers. Their development progress are all good.
For free agents, Young and Williams have become consistent contributors. Some may still question the signing of Mozgov and Deng. But they are really needed and have fixed 2 of our biggest weakness links. Mozgov is a big improvement over Hibbert. He gives us the much needed height and size, as well as scoring in the middle. Deng give us a defensive presence on the wing. These 4 free agents, signed with long term contracts, give us so much veteran support so that we could compete and develop our winning culture at this stage. The pick up and signing of Black is also a good move.
We may win just a few more games comparing to last year. But we can compete almost most of the games now, without Kobe. That is very impressive. Our front office waste no picks in drafting, make no mistake in signing free agents for past 3 years and have make a timely decision to hire Walton. That's great achievement and deserve some credits. |
Make no mistakes? They've literally have two of the worst acquisitions last summer to multi year deals.
|
|
Back to top |
|
|
Batguano Star Player
Joined: 19 Mar 2015 Posts: 2253
|
Posted: Sun Jan 22, 2017 2:17 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Couple of years ago everyone was (bleep) about Mitch not blowing it up and starting a rebuild sooner.
Now that we're in the rebuild everyones (bleep) about being in a rebuild.
We have one of the best young cores in the league with lots of potential. We're ahead of schedule of even teams like Philly and Minny from my perspective. Regardless of the W-L column. Why? Because we were champions in 2010, "only" 7 seasons ago. We were contenders last in 2013, only 4 seasons ago. When was the last time Minny was even in the playoffs? When was the last time the 6ers were even relevant? So it's taken the Lakers way less time to acquire a comparable young core, despite having just started the rebuild recently.
Yes, the losing is frustrating. But our 3 best young guys (Ingram, DLo, Randle) have all shown glimpses of at the very least all-star potential.
The Deng and Mozgov contracts aren't the killers that everyone makes them out to be because by the time their contracts are up our young core won't even be in its prime yet.
Most players peak around the age of 27-28. 7-footers peak a little later, in their early 30s.
Ingram (19)
Zubac (19)
DLo (20)
Randle (22)
Clarkson (24)
Nance Jr. (24)
T. Robinson (25)
Tarik Black (25)
So even some of the older players from our young guys still have a good 4 years to go before they peak and are finished products (I'm looking at you, Clarkson haters! ) |
|
Back to top |
|
|
Laker_Dynasty_01 Star Player
Joined: 06 Jun 2001 Posts: 1703
|
Posted: Sun Jan 22, 2017 2:18 pm Post subject: |
|
|
IngramDynasty wrote: | I'm just waiting for the <b>BREAKING NEWS</b> at this point...
It's embarrassing how horrendous he is.
"Bu bu but he did the best that he can do..." |
How many teams could lose their cornerstone during their last title run and be successful? EDIT: (In a sudden and unexpected rebuild)
Lets say something similar happened to Jerry Krause in 1998 after the deadline. It would still be wrong to point fingers at him for not dealing Pippen for McGrady, as the team was competing for a title.
Last edited by Laker_Dynasty_01 on Sun Jan 22, 2017 2:23 pm; edited 1 time in total |
|
Back to top |
|
|
IngramDynasty Sixth Man
Joined: 18 Jan 2017 Posts: 77
|
Posted: Sun Jan 22, 2017 2:22 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Batguano wrote: | Couple of years ago everyone was (bleep) about Mitch not blowing it up and starting a rebuild sooner.
Now that we're in the rebuild everyones (bleep) about being in a rebuild.
We have one of the best young cores in the league with lots of potential. We're ahead of schedule of even teams like Philly and Minny from my perspective. Regardless of the W-L column. Why? Because we were champions in 2010, "only" 7 seasons ago. We were contenders last in 2013, only 4 seasons ago. When was the last time Minny was even in the playoffs? When was the last time the 6ers were even relevant? So it's taken the Lakers way less time to acquire a comparable young core, despite having just started the rebuild recently.
Yes, the losing is frustrating. But our 3 best young guys (Ingram, DLo, Randle) have all shown glimpses of at the very least all-star potential.
The Deng and Mozgov contracts aren't the killers that everyone makes them out to be because by the time their contracts are up our young core won't even be in its prime yet.
Most players peak around the age of 27-28. 7-footers peak a little later, in their early 30s.
Ingram (19)
Zubac (19)
DLo (20)
Randle (22)
Clarkson (24)
Nance Jr. (24)
T. Robinson (25)
Tarik Black (25)
So even some of the older players from our young guys still have a good 4 years to go before they peak and are finished products (I'm looking at you, Clarkson haters! ) |
Yea, except we're not rebuilding. We're just sucking. Sixers are rebuilding. Rebuilding teams don't play Nick Young, Lou Williams, Luol Deng and Mozgov major minutes. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
venturalakersfan Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144432 Location: The Gold Coast
|
Posted: Sun Jan 22, 2017 3:03 pm Post subject: |
|
|
IngramDynasty wrote: |
Yea, except we're not rebuilding. We're just sucking. Sixers are rebuilding. Rebuilding teams don't play Nick Young, Lou Williams, Luol Deng and Mozgov major minutes. |
Actually we are rebuilding, that should be as obvious as hell. But hot takes and all, I get it. _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
IngramDynasty Sixth Man
Joined: 18 Jan 2017 Posts: 77
|
Posted: Sun Jan 22, 2017 3:24 pm Post subject: |
|
|
venturalakersfan wrote: | IngramDynasty wrote: |
Yea, except we're not rebuilding. We're just sucking. Sixers are rebuilding. Rebuilding teams don't play Nick Young, Lou Williams, Luol Deng and Mozgov major minutes. |
Actually we are rebuilding, that should be as obvious as hell. But hot takes and all, I get it. |
Right because rebuilding teams sign 30 year old veterans to 4 year deals for 60+ million each. I must have missed that step. |
|
Back to top |
|
|
dcarter4kobe Franchise Player
Joined: 30 Jul 2005 Posts: 17656
|
Posted: Sun Jan 22, 2017 3:27 pm Post subject: |
|
|
"Walton acknowledged that one of the challenges is the Lakers don’t really have that one veteran leader to rally around on the court"
https://twitter.com/LakersReporter/status/823309569342537728
Speaking of those veterans. _________________ "He's a Zen master, so he can speak to you, and he doesn't need a microphone; you can hear him in your head, 'Ron, don't shoot, don't shoot.' Whatever, pow, three. I love the Zen, though." |
|
Back to top |
|
|
justsomelakerfan Franchise Player
Joined: 16 Jul 2016 Posts: 10939
|
Posted: Sun Jan 22, 2017 3:35 pm Post subject: |
|
|
I WAS ABOUT TO POST THIS DUDE
So this quote is basically inexcusable given the signings we had this summer and how we're hanging onto Lou.
If there's no vet leader who can lead the team on the court, what the hell did we do this summer? And I don't put this on Luke either asking for these guys. Go ahead and hear your new coach out, but sign them realistically given their age.
That quote is making me RAGE. _________________ Austin Reaves
Tweeter: @sarah_dotbiz |
|
Back to top |
|
|
yinoma2001 Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 119487
|
Posted: Sun Jan 22, 2017 3:36 pm Post subject: |
|
|
It's very sad. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
|
Back to top |
|
|
dcarter4kobe Franchise Player
Joined: 30 Jul 2005 Posts: 17656
|
Posted: Sun Jan 22, 2017 3:37 pm Post subject: |
|
|
justsomelakerfan wrote: |
I WAS ABOUT TO POST THIS DUDE
So this quote is basically inexcusable given the signings we had this summer and how we're hanging onto Lou.
If there's no vet leader who can lead the team on the court, what the hell did we do this summer? And I don't put this on Luke either asking for these guys. Go ahead and hear your new coach out, but sign them realistically given their age.
That quote is making me RAGE. |
You really cant help but laugh b/c it shows how inept the signings were. I knew the veteran leadership aspect was always overrated with Mozgov. Luke confirmed it in training camp when he said he doesn't talk much. _________________ "He's a Zen master, so he can speak to you, and he doesn't need a microphone; you can hear him in your head, 'Ron, don't shoot, don't shoot.' Whatever, pow, three. I love the Zen, though." |
|
Back to top |
|
|
TDRock Retired Number
Joined: 27 May 2010 Posts: 48596 Location: LA to the Bay
|
Posted: Sun Jan 22, 2017 3:38 pm Post subject: |
|
|
justsomelakerfan wrote: |
I WAS ABOUT TO POST THIS DUDE
So this quote is basically inexcusable given the signings we had this summer and how we're hanging onto Lou.
If there's no vet leader who can lead the team on the court, what the hell did we do this summer? And I don't put this on Luke either asking for these guys. Go ahead and hear your new coach out, but sign them realistically given their age.
That quote is making me RAGE. |
Well, no. Basically he was saying that we don't have a Kobe (in so many words). I'm sure we all knew that hence this quote should not be revelatory. _________________ #IStillBelieveTaurean |
|
Back to top |
|
|
justsomelakerfan Franchise Player
Joined: 16 Jul 2016 Posts: 10939
|
Posted: Sun Jan 22, 2017 3:40 pm Post subject: |
|
|
Let me get this straight.
We got Deng, Mozgov, Lou Will, Jose Calderon, Marculo Huertas, and Metta World Peace all taking roster spots right now. Three of them don't even play.
And not ONE of them Luke feels is a guy the team can rally around as a vet leader. Not one.
THAT'S SIX ROSTER SPOTS
THAT'S OVER $130 MIL BETWEEN OUR VET FREE AGENCY SIGNINGS
MITCH _________________ Austin Reaves
Tweeter: @sarah_dotbiz |
|
Back to top |
|
|
|
|
You cannot post new topics in this forum You cannot reply to topics in this forum You cannot edit your posts in this forum You cannot delete your posts in this forum You cannot vote in polls in this forum
|
|