Mitch Kupchak needs to go
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Raijin
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2017 5:22 pm    Post subject:

GasolBynumKobe wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
Runway8 wrote:
This is why I kinda like Magic coming back. I don't doubt Mitch's basketball acumen, but for a long time I've wondered if he's too clean going against GM's who aren't.

"He's the only GM in the league who won't engage at all before 9:01 p.m. [PT] on the first night of free agency,” the anonymous agent told ESPN. “Then when he calls to express interest, there's no stickiness to it."
Sources also said it’s a credit to Kupchak that he doesn’t break league rules, which prohibit teams from contacting players or agents before their contracts have expired. But that was called a “lack of savvy” on his part.


Don't know how much credence to give to this article, but it kinda speaks to my suspicion.


It is a small sample size, but I know two agents who deal with the Lakers and they have nothing but good things to say about Mitch.


Mozgov and Deng's agents?


Luke Walton's in the past
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 09, 2017 7:46 pm    Post subject:

greenfrog wrote:
Runway8 wrote:
This is why I kinda like Magic coming back. I don't doubt Mitch's basketball acumen, but for a long time I've wondered if he's too clean going against GM's who aren't.

"He's the only GM in the league who won't engage at all before 9:01 p.m. [PT] on the first night of free agency,” the anonymous agent told ESPN. “Then when he calls to express interest, there's no stickiness to it."
Sources also said it’s a credit to Kupchak that he doesn’t break league rules, which prohibit teams from contacting players or agents before their contracts have expired. But that was called a “lack of savvy” on his part.


Don't know how much credence to give to this article, but it kinda speaks to my suspicion.


I think GT said he heard the same thing during his Knicks cast, and that was before this article came out, I believe.

Woj reported on it a few days before the article came out.
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2017 8:56 am    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
clutchkobe wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
We won't be good enough for over half of Deng and Mozgov's contract to attract a franchise changing star. And Mitch has done exactly as he should have the last 3 seasons despite my hate for it, get the team at the top of the draft to bring in young talent. That has been our only chance of improving, we weren't signing good FAs and we had squat to trade. So while I do not like the losing, I can still recognize that has to be our plan.


oh yeah....he meant to do this.....not win and we get draft picks....this was his plan all along


That is why the vets who were playing well spent the last part of the season watching in suits. But you should have known that.


in your prior comments, you were not just talking about this year.. You actl like it was a brilliant plan of mitch to get as high draft picks as he can get and that was his master plan. Everything mitch and jim have done is because they were forced to do it. No master plan at all. Year after year they react to what they have. They have no clear vision. I just want a clear path forward....and i dont care how we get there. One of them, mitch
or jim have to go and perferably both.
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2017 9:08 am    Post subject:

well, according to VLF, we're improving as a team, so Jim is doing his job.

if you count going from being terrible to being not as terrible as improvement, then ok. that's the kind of expectations jim has stored in VLF's mind.
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2017 9:52 am    Post subject:

clutchkobe wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
clutchkobe wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
We won't be good enough for over half of Deng and Mozgov's contract to attract a franchise changing star. And Mitch has done exactly as he should have the last 3 seasons despite my hate for it, get the team at the top of the draft to bring in young talent. That has been our only chance of improving, we weren't signing good FAs and we had squat to trade. So while I do not like the losing, I can still recognize that has to be our plan.


oh yeah....he meant to do this.....not win and we get draft picks....this was his plan all along


That is why the vets who were playing well spent the last part of the season watching in suits. But you should have known that.


in your prior comments, you were not just talking about this year.. You actl like it was a brilliant plan of mitch to get as high draft picks as he can get and that was his master plan. Everything mitch and jim have done is because they were forced to do it. No master plan at all. Year after year they react to what they have. They have no clear vision. I just want a clear path forward....and i dont care how we get there. One of them, mitch
or jim have to go and perferably both.


Well this year the vets have not been sitting on a bench in a suit, so obviously I have not been talking about this year. In previous years that is exactly what happened. With that kind of observations I wouldn't expect you to recognize a plan that the FO might have.
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2017 9:52 am    Post subject:

Is it true that Isaiah Thomas wanted so sign with us?

I know we had Bazemore and Ed Davis and stupidly let them go because we were stupidly waiting around on Carmelo and or LMA. But I don't remember Thomas being in the mix. Lowry either.

If true I think I have finally had it with Mitch. Sure he has made great draft picks, and I don't blame him for the Nash deal cause we were trying to get Kobe one more ring.

But since then in free agency it has been one misstep after another. And no I don't blame him for not landing LMA or Carmelo. I blame him for chasing stars while letting good up and coming/attainable players slip out of our grasp. Then the Mozgov/Deng contracts. ugg.
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2017 10:00 am    Post subject:

Dr. Funkbot wrote:
Is it true that Isaiah Thomas wanted so sign with us?

I know we had Bazemore and Ed Davis and stupidly let them go because we were stupidly waiting around on Carmelo and or LMA. But I don't remember Thomas being in the mix. Lowry either.

If true I think I have finally had it with Mitch. Sure he has made great draft picks, and I don't blame him for the Nash deal cause we were trying to get Kobe one more ring.

But since then in free agency it has been one misstep after another. And no I don't blame him for not landing LMA or Carmelo. I blame him for chasing stars while letting good up and coming/attainable players slip out of our grasp. Then the Mozgov/Deng contracts. ugg.


He was basically begging to come here.
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2017 10:03 am    Post subject:

USCandLakers wrote:
Dr. Funkbot wrote:
Is it true that Isaiah Thomas wanted so sign with us?

I know we had Bazemore and Ed Davis and stupidly let them go because we were stupidly waiting around on Carmelo and or LMA. But I don't remember Thomas being in the mix. Lowry either.

If true I think I have finally had it with Mitch. Sure he has made great draft picks, and I don't blame him for the Nash deal cause we were trying to get Kobe one more ring.

But since then in free agency it has been one misstep after another. And no I don't blame him for not landing LMA or Carmelo. I blame him for chasing stars while letting good up and coming/attainable players slip out of our grasp. Then the Mozgov/Deng contracts. ugg.


He was basically begging to come here.


I guess I missed that, those were dark years, I was not on the board too much then. I can't believe we did not pick Thomas up. I have been needlessly defending Mitch for the past 3 years. He needs to be replaced.
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2017 10:19 am    Post subject:

Having tiny ball dominant players isn't something we need to strive for. For every point Thomas scores he give up a point. Toronto beat them by taking Thomas into the post and Derozan scoring over him on possession after possession. But hey, he scores points, he's gotta be good! Amirite? I didn't want a ball hog like him then, don't want him now. And neither does Boston or any other team he has played for.
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2017 10:23 am    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
Having tiny ball dominant players isn't something we need to strive for. For every point Thomas scores he give up a point. Toronto beat them by taking Thomas into the post and Derozan scoring over him on possession after possession. But hey, he scores points, he's gotta be good! Amirite? I didn't want a ball hog like him then, don't want him now. And neither does Boston or any other team he has played for.


Admittedly, I only read the last few posts but I am confused by this statement. Boston doesn't want Thomas?
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2017 10:44 am    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
Having tiny ball dominant players isn't something we need to strive for. For every point Thomas scores he give up a point. Toronto beat them by taking Thomas into the post and Derozan scoring over him on possession after possession. But hey, he scores points, he's gotta be good! Amirite? I didn't want a ball hog like him then, don't want him now. And neither does Boston or any other team he has played for.


Hey we got our own version of that with Lou for a million more
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2017 10:47 am    Post subject:

TDRock wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
Having tiny ball dominant players isn't something we need to strive for. For every point Thomas scores he give up a point. Toronto beat them by taking Thomas into the post and Derozan scoring over him on possession after possession. But hey, he scores points, he's gotta be good! Amirite? I didn't want a ball hog like him then, don't want him now. And neither does Boston or any other team he has played for.


Admittedly, I only read the last few posts but I am confused by this statement. Boston doesn't want Thomas?


No, rumors are that they will let him walk.
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2017 10:59 am    Post subject:

Not re-signing Ed Davis was not a mistake. Not signing Biyombo for Brandon Bass' money was a mistake. Byron not playing Tarik was a mistake.

Just wanted to get that off my chest.
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2017 12:56 pm    Post subject:

Baron Von Humongous wrote:
Not re-signing Ed Davis was not a mistake. Not signing Biyombo for Brandon Bass' money was a mistake. Byron not playing Tarik was a mistake.

Just wanted to get that off my chest.


Why not? He is a good young player on a cheap contract. He would be the best rim protector on this team. And he is better than who we got in his place= no one.
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2017 1:31 pm    Post subject:

Dr. Funkbot wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
Not re-signing Ed Davis was not a mistake. Not signing Biyombo for Brandon Bass' money was a mistake. Byron not playing Tarik was a mistake.

Just wanted to get that off my chest.


Why not? He is a good young player on a cheap contract. He would be the best rim protector on this team. And he is better than who we got in his place= no one.

Poor Tarik, Julius, and Larry
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2017 1:37 pm    Post subject:

Baron Von Humongous wrote:
Dr. Funkbot wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
Not re-signing Ed Davis was not a mistake. Not signing Biyombo for Brandon Bass' money was a mistake. Byron not playing Tarik was a mistake.

Just wanted to get that off my chest.


Why not? He is a good young player on a cheap contract. He would be the best rim protector on this team. And he is better than who we got in his place= no one.

Poor Tarik, Julius, and Larry


At the time! Yes we later got those guys. But I still think that Ed Davis > Tarik because he has much better size, same sized contract too. Ed is definitely a better defender than Julius- again because of his size.
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2017 1:38 pm    Post subject:

Dr. Funkbot wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
Not re-signing Ed Davis was not a mistake. Not signing Biyombo for Brandon Bass' money was a mistake. Byron not playing Tarik was a mistake.

Just wanted to get that off my chest.


Why not? He is a good young player on a cheap contract. He would be the best rim protector on this team. And he is better than who we got in his place= no one.
I think Tarik has been good enough that I don't miss Ed. Especially with Zubac's emergence.

Though I was annoyed as anyone when we didn't re-sign him when everyone knew we had no shot with LMA
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2017 2:00 pm    Post subject:

Dr. Funkbot wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
Dr. Funkbot wrote:
Baron Von Humongous wrote:
Not re-signing Ed Davis was not a mistake. Not signing Biyombo for Brandon Bass' money was a mistake. Byron not playing Tarik was a mistake.

Just wanted to get that off my chest.


Why not? He is a good young player on a cheap contract. He would be the best rim protector on this team. And he is better than who we got in his place= no one.

Poor Tarik, Julius, and Larry


At the time! Yes we later got those guys. But I still think that Ed Davis > Tarik because he has much better size, same sized contract too. Ed is definitely a better defender than Julius- again because of his size.

Even then I didn't expect Byron to bury Tarik behind Sacre and Kelly, but nonetheless, the Lakers clearly needed size more than another 6'9 PF/C without range after drafting Nance and getting solid production out of rookie Black. As a tradeable asset, I get keeping Davis, but bringing in Koufos and Biyombo made more sense to me back in 2015 than investing minutes for Ed.

Of course, I was less savvy when it came to understanding switching defenses then, and I overrated Nance as a shotblocker coming out of college.
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2017 2:30 pm    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
Having tiny ball dominant players isn't something we need to strive for. For every point Thomas scores he give up a point. Toronto beat them by taking Thomas into the post and Derozan scoring over him on possession after possession. But hey, he scores points, he's gotta be good! Amirite? I didn't want a ball hog like him then, don't want him now. And neither does Boston or any other team he has played for.


Wow, talk about a narrative run amock.
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2017 2:36 pm    Post subject:

Dr. Funkbot wrote:
USCandLakers wrote:
Dr. Funkbot wrote:
Is it true that Isaiah Thomas wanted so sign with us?

I know we had Bazemore and Ed Davis and stupidly let them go because we were stupidly waiting around on Carmelo and or LMA. But I don't remember Thomas being in the mix. Lowry either.

If true I think I have finally had it with Mitch. Sure he has made great draft picks, and I don't blame him for the Nash deal cause we were trying to get Kobe one more ring.

But since then in free agency it has been one misstep after another. And no I don't blame him for not landing LMA or Carmelo. I blame him for chasing stars while letting good up and coming/attainable players slip out of our grasp. Then the Mozgov/Deng contracts. ugg.


He was basically begging to come here.


I guess I missed that, those were dark years, I was not on the board too much then. I can't believe we did not pick Thomas up. I have been needlessly defending Mitch for the past 3 years. He needs to be replaced.

Isaiah is without question the most overrated player in the league. People say this about Harden or whatever other star they have an agenda about, but Isaiah Thomas is literally the only star in the NBA who actually does give up as many points as he gets you. The team isn't any better with him on the court, because his offensive brilliance is accompanied by a team defense that's worse than the Lakers'.

Outdated, but: https://twitter.com/JerryEngelmann/status/821138920758972417/photo/1

I get the criticism there, but it's overstated. At least we had a shot with Melo and we could hope that he + Kobe + Pau would close out Kobe's career nicely (no one knew how bad Kobe would be after returning from that knee fracture).

I blame them more for repeating their sins with the LMA (bleep) and not getting Ed Davis and several other players in the year before the salary cap rose. Though Lou was a good signing.
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2017 3:17 pm    Post subject:

tox wrote:
Isaiah Thomas is literally the only star in the NBA who actually does give up as many points as he gets you. The team isn't any better with him on the court, because his offensive brilliance is accompanied by a team defense that's worse than the Lakers'.



I can't find any statistical evidence to support this claim. He has a positive real plus minus and BPM. The net rating of his team is higher when he's on the floor. And the defensive rating of his team when he is on the floor is below our team's defensive rating. His PER, win shares, VORP also show his value.

http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/page/2/sort/RPM
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/t/thomais02.html
http://on.nba.com/2jZinEZ
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2017 3:26 pm    Post subject:

jonnybravo wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
Having tiny ball dominant players isn't something we need to strive for. For every point Thomas scores he give up a point. Toronto beat them by taking Thomas into the post and Derozan scoring over him on possession after possession. But hey, he scores points, he's gotta be good! Amirite? I didn't want a ball hog like him then, don't want him now. And neither does Boston or any other team he has played for.


Wow, talk about a narrative run amock.


I'm wondering how VLF justifies having those thoughts about IT while simultaneously cheering on our team's use of Lou over D'Angelo.
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2017 3:27 pm    Post subject:

kikanga wrote:
tox wrote:
Isaiah Thomas is literally the only star in the NBA who actually does give up as many points as he gets you. The team isn't any better with him on the court, because his offensive brilliance is accompanied by a team defense that's worse than the Lakers'.



I can't find any statistical evidence to support this claim. He has a positive real plus minus and BPM. The net rating of his team is higher when he's on the floor. And the defensive rating of his team when he is on the floor is below our team's defensive rating. His PER, win shares, VORP also show his value.

http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/page/2/sort/RPM
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/t/thomais02.html
http://on.nba.com/2jZinEZ


And irrespective of that, they're the #2 team in the East whilst he's playing the most minutes. Unless they're stumbling into 34 wins in spite of the guy or Brad Stevens is the biggest idiot in town for playing him.
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2017 3:28 pm    Post subject:

Don Draper wrote:
jonnybravo wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
Having tiny ball dominant players isn't something we need to strive for. For every point Thomas scores he give up a point. Toronto beat them by taking Thomas into the post and Derozan scoring over him on possession after possession. But hey, he scores points, he's gotta be good! Amirite? I didn't want a ball hog like him then, don't want him now. And neither does Boston or any other team he has played for.


Wow, talk about a narrative run amock.


I'm wondering how VLF justifies having those thoughts about IT while simultaneously cheering on our team's use of Lou over D'Angelo.


He's getting paid 7M/year to boot and we're the GD 3rd worse record and on our way to hand-wringing to keep our pick for the Nth (bleep)-ing time for gawd's sake.
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2017 3:40 pm    Post subject:

jonnybravo wrote:
kikanga wrote:
tox wrote:
Isaiah Thomas is literally the only star in the NBA who actually does give up as many points as he gets you. The team isn't any better with him on the court, because his offensive brilliance is accompanied by a team defense that's worse than the Lakers'.



I can't find any statistical evidence to support this claim. He has a positive real plus minus and BPM. The net rating of his team is higher when he's on the floor. And the defensive rating of his team when he is on the floor is below our team's defensive rating. His PER, win shares, VORP also show his value.

http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/page/2/sort/RPM
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/t/thomais02.html
http://on.nba.com/2jZinEZ


And irrespective of that, they're the #2 team in the East whilst he's playing the most minutes. Unless they're stumbling into 34 wins in spite of the guy or Brad Stevens is the biggest idiot in town for playing him.


Yep.
I can understand if someone doesn't think Mitch should be fired immediately. I would give Jim and Mitch till the end of next season to show improvement. Like somewhere between 9th and 12th in the conference instead of 14th or 15th (where we've been since 2013).
But even with that patient perspective, I can still admit they've made mistakes. And not signing IT to a 7 mill year contract is 1 of them. This year his PER/annual salary ratio is 27.5/7, nearly 4/1. I doubt another player in the league has that high of a ratio. He'll get paid after this contract. But with the salary cap exceeding 100 mill. It's not a bigger problem then having a lack of talent/assets on the roster.
He does have his limitations defensively. But as Stevens has shown, it can be built around.
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