Mitch Kupchak needs to go
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kikanga
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2017 5:00 pm    Post subject:

Only 7 teams have had lotto picks every year since 2014 . PHI, ORL, MIN, PHX, DEN, SAC and us.
Only 2 of those teams have changed things up since then. Hinkie left PHI in 2016, he was nudged out by papa Colangelo. And SAC fired D'Alessandro for Divac in 2015.
ORL has kept Hennigan since 2012. PHX has kept McDonough since 2013. DEN has kept Connelly since 2013.
MIN lost Saunders to lymphoma in 2015 . That's why they eventually fired Newton and brought in Layden (GM).
Maybe we should be more patient with our GM. Give him more time to build through the draft. It was dumb for Jim to commit to such high expectations (competing for a chip) in such a short time period.
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tox
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2017 5:06 pm    Post subject:

kikanga wrote:
tox wrote:
Isaiah Thomas is literally the only star in the NBA who actually does give up as many points as he gets you. The team isn't any better with him on the court, because his offensive brilliance is accompanied by a team defense that's worse than the Lakers'.



I can't find any statistical evidence to support this claim. He has a positive real plus minus and BPM. The net rating of his team is higher when he's on the floor. And the defensive rating of his team when he is on the floor is below our team's defensive rating. His PER, win shares, VORP also show his value.

http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/page/2/sort/RPM
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/t/thomais02.html
http://on.nba.com/2jZinEZ


None of those stats does a remotely decent job of capturing defense.

https://nbacouchside.com/no-isaiah-thomas-doesnt-belong-in-the-mvp-conversation-d693ce6bfe2#.orkr07k0s

This concludes he's a slightly net positive player. The on/off numbers disagree and find him net negative. Don't get me wrong, I'd love to his shot making on the team, but I'm not going to cry about him not being here.

Edit: I stand corrected. I might've seen outdated stats w.r.t. on/off lineup numbers. So Thomas doesn't "quite" give up as many point as he gets the team, but it's very close.
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kikanga
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2017 5:11 pm    Post subject:

tox wrote:
kikanga wrote:
tox wrote:
Isaiah Thomas is literally the only star in the NBA who actually does give up as many points as he gets you. The team isn't any better with him on the court, because his offensive brilliance is accompanied by a team defense that's worse than the Lakers'.



I can't find any statistical evidence to support this claim. He has a positive real plus minus and BPM. The net rating of his team is higher when he's on the floor. And the defensive rating of his team when he is on the floor is below our team's defensive rating. His PER, win shares, VORP also show his value.

http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/page/2/sort/RPM
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/t/thomais02.html
http://on.nba.com/2jZinEZ


None of those stats does a remotely decent job of capturing defense.

https://nbacouchside.com/no-isaiah-thomas-doesnt-belong-in-the-mvp-conversation-d693ce6bfe2#.orkr07k0s

This concludes he's a slightly net positive player. The on/off numbers disagree and find him net negative. Don't get me wrong, I'd love to his shot making on the team, but I'm not going to cry about him not being here.

Edit: I stand corrected. I might've seen outdated stats w.r.t. on/off lineup numbers. So Thomas doesn't "quite" give up as many point as he gets the team, but it's very close.


What is w.r.t. ? I'm not familiar with the term. I'm not as familiar with statistical lingo as you
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The_Dynasty24
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2017 5:18 pm    Post subject:

kikanga wrote:
tox wrote:
kikanga wrote:
tox wrote:
Isaiah Thomas is literally the only star in the NBA who actually does give up as many points as he gets you. The team isn't any better with him on the court, because his offensive brilliance is accompanied by a team defense that's worse than the Lakers'.



I can't find any statistical evidence to support this claim. He has a positive real plus minus and BPM. The net rating of his team is higher when he's on the floor. And the defensive rating of his team when he is on the floor is below our team's defensive rating. His PER, win shares, VORP also show his value.

http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/page/2/sort/RPM
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/t/thomais02.html
http://on.nba.com/2jZinEZ


None of those stats does a remotely decent job of capturing defense.

https://nbacouchside.com/no-isaiah-thomas-doesnt-belong-in-the-mvp-conversation-d693ce6bfe2#.orkr07k0s

This concludes he's a slightly net positive player. The on/off numbers disagree and find him net negative. Don't get me wrong, I'd love to his shot making on the team, but I'm not going to cry about him not being here.

Edit: I stand corrected. I might've seen outdated stats w.r.t. on/off lineup numbers. So Thomas doesn't "quite" give up as many point as he gets the team, but it's very close.


What is w.r.t. ? I'm not familiar with the term. I'm not as familiar with statistical lingo as you
Im assuming that just meant with respect to
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kikanga
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 10, 2017 5:21 pm    Post subject:

The_Dynasty24 wrote:
kikanga wrote:
tox wrote:
kikanga wrote:
tox wrote:
Isaiah Thomas is literally the only star in the NBA who actually does give up as many points as he gets you. The team isn't any better with him on the court, because his offensive brilliance is accompanied by a team defense that's worse than the Lakers'.



I can't find any statistical evidence to support this claim. He has a positive real plus minus and BPM. The net rating of his team is higher when he's on the floor. And the defensive rating of his team when he is on the floor is below our team's defensive rating. His PER, win shares, VORP also show his value.

http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/page/2/sort/RPM
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/t/thomais02.html
http://on.nba.com/2jZinEZ


None of those stats does a remotely decent job of capturing defense.

https://nbacouchside.com/no-isaiah-thomas-doesnt-belong-in-the-mvp-conversation-d693ce6bfe2#.orkr07k0s

This concludes he's a slightly net positive player. The on/off numbers disagree and find him net negative. Don't get me wrong, I'd love to his shot making on the team, but I'm not going to cry about him not being here.

Edit: I stand corrected. I might've seen outdated stats w.r.t. on/off lineup numbers. So Thomas doesn't "quite" give up as many point as he gets the team, but it's very close.


What is w.r.t. ? I'm not familiar with the term. I'm not as familiar with statistical lingo as you
Im assuming that just meant with respect to


Thanks
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2017 12:19 am    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
Having tiny ball dominant players isn't something we need to strive for. For every point Thomas scores he give up a point. Toronto beat them by taking Thomas into the post and Derozan scoring over him on possession after possession. But hey, he scores points, he's gotta be good! Amirite? I didn't want a ball hog like him then, don't want him now. And neither does Boston or any other team he has played for.


This is literally senile even for you. Do you watch the games? He also ripped the Raptors a new one two weeks ago in the fourth when his team was down 10+.

What IT has been doing for that team is incredible. He's not a "ball hog" he makes a ton of good passes to open teammates.
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tox
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2017 1:49 am    Post subject:

kikanga wrote:
The_Dynasty24 wrote:
kikanga wrote:
tox wrote:
kikanga wrote:
tox wrote:
Isaiah Thomas is literally the only star in the NBA who actually does give up as many points as he gets you. The team isn't any better with him on the court, because his offensive brilliance is accompanied by a team defense that's worse than the Lakers'.



I can't find any statistical evidence to support this claim. He has a positive real plus minus and BPM. The net rating of his team is higher when he's on the floor. And the defensive rating of his team when he is on the floor is below our team's defensive rating. His PER, win shares, VORP also show his value.

http://www.espn.com/nba/statistics/rpm/_/page/2/sort/RPM
http://www.basketball-reference.com/players/t/thomais02.html
http://on.nba.com/2jZinEZ


None of those stats does a remotely decent job of capturing defense.

https://nbacouchside.com/no-isaiah-thomas-doesnt-belong-in-the-mvp-conversation-d693ce6bfe2#.orkr07k0s

This concludes he's a slightly net positive player. The on/off numbers disagree and find him net negative. Don't get me wrong, I'd love to his shot making on the team, but I'm not going to cry about him not being here.

Edit: I stand corrected. I might've seen outdated stats w.r.t. on/off lineup numbers. So Thomas doesn't "quite" give up as many point as he gets the team, but it's very close.


What is w.r.t. ? I'm not familiar with the term. I'm not as familiar with statistical lingo as you
Im assuming that just meant with respect to


Thanks
Yeah that's what I meant, thanks The_Dynasty24
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2017 9:45 am    Post subject:

Snipes wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
Having tiny ball dominant players isn't something we need to strive for. For every point Thomas scores he give up a point. Toronto beat them by taking Thomas into the post and Derozan scoring over him on possession after possession. But hey, he scores points, he's gotta be good! Amirite? I didn't want a ball hog like him then, don't want him now. And neither does Boston or any other team he has played for.


This is literally senile even for you. Do you watch the games? He also ripped the Raptors a new one two weeks ago in the fourth when his team was down 10+.

What IT has been doing for that team is incredible. He's not a "ball hog" he makes a ton of good passes to open teammates.


I do watch the games and I see him giving up about the same number of points that he scores. As I said, the Raptors game plan was simple, get the ball to whoever Thomas was guarding. But we can have another shot at him this offseason as the Celtics likely won't re-sign him. Want to take bets if we do?
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iimarshon
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 11, 2017 1:47 pm    Post subject:

I don't get how people say Mitch hasn't been a good GM

- he got Pau Gasol
- got Trevor Ariza for nothing
- got Kent Bazemore for nothing
- drafted Bynum, DLO, Ingram, Randle, Nance, Zubac, Clarkson, Marc Gasol
- got a first round pick for taking on Jeremy Lin
- got two 2nds for taking on Calderon
- got Nick Young for 5m per year
- got Lou Will for a rediculous 3/21m
- signed Ed Davis for cheap
- won the Bynum/Dwight trade
- everyone loved Nash trade until Nash got hurt
- signed Metta who won us a championship
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PostPosted: Mon Mar 20, 2017 3:42 pm    Post subject:

FreakofNature wrote:
Does Mitch need to go? If you go by record, go by "results of not just 1 year or two years. But 4 including this year someone has to take the hit, and Mitch being GM is the "fall guy"....

Not making a personal judgement, just going by the numbers. Of course you have to take into consideration where we are now, and where are we heading. What has Mitch done for us in the past, many things to consider, but as of the last 4 year's results, there is no doubt he is hanging precariously from the edge of the cliff...

Last 4 years (including this one we are 2nd worst in win totals. That's 2nd worst team in the league for 4 years now in total wins.

7th. Nets 112 wins GM fired
6th. Bucks 110 GM fired
5th. Kings 109 GM fired
4th. Minny 104 GM fired
3rd. Magic 102 On the hot seat
2nd. lakers 81 wins So long Mitch
1st. Philly 65 GM fired



This list should be updated.

Lakers have fired their GM.

Orlando is on the verge of doing the same shortly.

"The Orlando Magic are giving strong consideration to a big change in their front office, according to league sources.

Sources told ESPN that Magic general manager Rob Hennigan's job is under threat at season's end in the wake of a fifth straight non-playoff season since he was hired."



http://www.espn.com/nba/story/_/id/18960042/rob-hennigan-job-jeopardy-orlando-magic-conclude-fifth-straight-losing-season


People get fire. It will also include the owner's son. this is the realty of the business.
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brock
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2017 2:11 pm    Post subject:

iimarshon wrote:
I don't get how people say Mitch hasn't been a good GM

- he got Pau Gasol
- got Trevor Ariza for nothing
- got Kent Bazemore for nothing
- drafted Bynum, DLO, Ingram, Randle, Nance, Zubac, Clarkson, Marc Gasol
- got a first round pick for taking on Jeremy Lin
- got two 2nds for taking on Calderon
- got Nick Young for 5m per year
- got Lou Will for a rediculous 3/21m
- signed Ed Davis for cheap
- won the Bynum/Dwight trade
- everyone loved Nash trade until Nash got hurt
- signed Metta who won us a championship


All good points.

Also signed traded for Ho Grant in 2001 (championship year), and signed Payton and Malone in 2004.

Traded Kwame Brown for Pau Gasol.

The problem with Mitch is that he's uber conservative. He had to be prodded to do the Gasol deal because he thought Bynum was duplicative.

I think LA wants someone willing to do a little more wheeling and dealing to jump start the rebuilding process.
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PostPosted: Tue Mar 21, 2017 2:15 pm    Post subject:

Kobe gave Mitch that death stare, and got Mitch working on Pau.
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PayasoLoco
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 7:45 pm    Post subject:

Mitch still F'ing us over from beyond the grave
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 8:58 pm    Post subject:

Mitch had his flaws, but he looks like a god right now.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 9:04 pm    Post subject:

Omar Little wrote:
Mitch had his flaws, but he looks like a god right now.


Huh?!? Jim and Mitch signed Mozgov to that horrendous contract. I know people don't like this trade, but let's show a little perspective here.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 9:07 pm    Post subject:

Yeah thanks to Mitch's brilliant signing of MozGoof, the Lakers basically were forced to trade the #2 pick for the #27th pick...

Yah, we can save salary money...!
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Omar Little
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 9:08 pm    Post subject:

SOLakerFan wrote:
Omar Little wrote:
Mitch had his flaws, but he looks like a god right now.


Huh?!? Jim and Mitch signed Mozgov to that horrendous contract. I know people don't like this trade, but let's show a little perspective here.


That's like saying a chick gave you an std, so you had to shoot yourself to death.
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LakerLogic
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 9:10 pm    Post subject:

Just because Magic is garbage doesn't mean Mitch was doing a great job. Those contracts were inexcusable.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 9:11 pm    Post subject:

Omar Little wrote:
Mitch had his flaws, but he looks like a god right now.


Yeah, he's thinking, "Jeanie can take the magic out of my wand, but at the end of the day, she's still stuck with just the Magic".
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Last edited by DaMuleRules on Tue Jun 20, 2017 9:12 pm; edited 1 time in total
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LakerLand247
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 9:11 pm    Post subject:

SOLakerFan wrote:
Omar Little wrote:
Mitch had his flaws, but he looks like a god right now.


Huh?!? Jim and Mitch signed Mozgov to that horrendous contract. I know people don't like this trade, but let's show a little perspective here.


Correct me if I'm wrong but in that year,the NBA required the teams with X amount of capspace to spend it or risk being penalized. Not sure what the penalty would have been though.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 9:13 pm    Post subject:

SOLakerFan wrote:
Omar Little wrote:
Mitch had his flaws, but he looks like a god right now.


Huh?!? Jim and Mitch signed Mozgov to that horrendous contract. I know people don't like this trade, but let's show a little perspective here.


Words of wisdom.

Mozgov contract was terrible.

Deng contract was horrible.

It was reported that we tried to get more value for our former 2nd pick, but unfortunately we couldn't sell his historically good numbers to other general managers.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 9:23 pm    Post subject:

LakerLand247 wrote:
SOLakerFan wrote:
Omar Little wrote:
Mitch had his flaws, but he looks like a god right now.


Huh?!? Jim and Mitch signed Mozgov to that horrendous contract. I know people don't like this trade, but let's show a little perspective here.


Correct me if I'm wrong but in that year,the NBA required the teams with X amount of capspace to spend it or risk being penalized. Not sure what the penalty would have been though.


No penalty, just cut a check for the shortfall.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 9:24 pm    Post subject:

LakerLogic wrote:
Just because Magic is garbage doesn't mean Mitch was doing a great job. Those contracts were inexcusable.


What's inexcusable is reducing Mitch's great work over the years down to one set of contracts.

I get why people feel the need to blame Jim for these recent dark years. But throwing Mitch under the Buss hate is completely without merit.
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Omar Little
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 9:24 pm    Post subject:

LakerLogic wrote:
Just because Magic is garbage doesn't mean Mitch was doing a great job. Those contracts were inexcusable.


Again, fine, but he was doing better than this. I will take dlo and mozgov vs neither.
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PostPosted: Tue Jun 20, 2017 9:25 pm    Post subject:

Omar Little wrote:
LakerLand247 wrote:
SOLakerFan wrote:
Omar Little wrote:
Mitch had his flaws, but he looks like a god right now.


Huh?!? Jim and Mitch signed Mozgov to that horrendous contract. I know people don't like this trade, but let's show a little perspective here.


Correct me if I'm wrong but in that year,the NBA required the teams with X amount of capspace to spend it or risk being penalized. Not sure what the penalty would have been though.


No penalty, just cut a check for the shortfall.


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