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Runway8
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Joined: 19 Apr 2003
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Location: La Jolla, San Diego
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 Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 10:24 pm Post subject: |
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| Jakanzi wrote: | That Zubac pick looks amazing right now. That the FO has been so good at drafting but so bad at managing other assets complicates the decision.
I wonder if there's any chance the Lakers hire Sam Hinkie or if he would consider the Lakers.
If Simmons comes back, looks awesome and Philly makes a late playoff push he's going to look very validated. I don't think the Lakers would make an external hire like that with some of the baggage that he has but at the very least you know he's going to be smart with his assets and would've never signed those Mozgov/Deng deals. |
This is the grass is greener elsewhere syndrome. Grass is greener makes you desire a guy who has been fired because Philly too thought grass was greener elsewhere. What validation are you talking about? Who was better at tanking? Both teams drafted according to most experts. Both teams skipped Porzingiis. There is no science to this man. As for Moz and Deng, wasn't there a floor we had to meet in terms of salary?
I like Mitch, but I'm not gonna lose any sleep if he gets fired, and I'm not gonna get excited with whoever you replace him. There is no science to this. You're just replacing the ups and downs of one brass for the future ups and downs of another. |
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adkindo
Retired Number
Joined: 16 Jun 2005
Posts: 40345
Location: Dirty South
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| Posted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 10:29 pm Post subject: |
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| Runway8 wrote: |
This is the grass is greener elsewhere syndrome. |
 not an actual syndrome or medical condition  |
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Jakanzi
Starting Rotation
Joined: 10 Jan 2017
Posts: 206
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| Posted: Sat Jan 21, 2017 3:56 am Post subject: |
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| Runway8 wrote: | | Jakanzi wrote: | That Zubac pick looks amazing right now. That the FO has been so good at drafting but so bad at managing other assets complicates the decision.
I wonder if there's any chance the Lakers hire Sam Hinkie or if he would consider the Lakers.
If Simmons comes back, looks awesome and Philly makes a late playoff push he's going to look very validated. I don't think the Lakers would make an external hire like that with some of the baggage that he has but at the very least you know he's going to be smart with his assets and would've never signed those Mozgov/Deng deals. |
This is the grass is greener elsewhere syndrome. Grass is greener makes you desire a guy who has been fired because Philly too thought grass was greener elsewhere. What validation are you talking about? Who was better at tanking? Both teams drafted according to most experts. Both teams skipped Porzingiis. There is no science to this man. As for Moz and Deng, wasn't there a floor we had to meet in terms of salary?
I like Mitch, but I'm not gonna lose any sleep if he gets fired, and I'm not gonna get excited with whoever you replace him. There is no science to this. You're just replacing the ups and downs of one brass for the future ups and downs of another. |
Hinkie was executing a plan and along the way was active and came out ahead with pretty much every trade he made. Lakers, as best as I can tell, were bad on accident. That's a huge difference.
Only reason I care about Hinkie's validation is that it would make hiring him less hard from a PR standpoint, I'd trust his decision making process even if they didn't get Embiid/Simmons.
The reasons the Moz/Deng deals reflect poor judgement have been beaten to death here but to answer your question, no, there isn't a salary floor that the Lakers had to meet. In the NBA, if you're below the salary floor line, at the end of the year whatever difference there is between the floor and your salary is spread amongst the players. |
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Dilla_
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Joined: 25 Oct 2015
Posts: 1274
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| Posted: Sat Jan 21, 2017 4:56 am Post subject: |
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Can't the FO just come and say what is going to happen. Whenever Jim is asked about it he says it was a quote from a few years ago and the future shouldn't be dependant on it. And he clearly wants to stay in his current job. Whenever Jennie is asked she just refers back to the quote. It doesn't help when the Lakers will be going for free agents if you don't know what is happening with the front office and it doesn't show what the long-term future is.
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Purp 32
Star Player
Joined: 12 Jul 2014
Posts: 2154
Location: Inglewood, CA
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| Posted: Sat Jan 21, 2017 10:28 am Post subject: |
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| Dilla_ wrote: | | Can't the FO just come and say what is going to happen. Whenever Jim is asked about it he says it was a quote from a few years ago and the future shouldn't be dependant on it. And he clearly wants to stay in his current job. Whenever Jennie is asked she just refers back to the quote. It doesn't help when the Lakers will be going for free agents if you don't know what is happening with the front office and it doesn't show what the long-term future is. |
That's the issue, they don't even know. |
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splashmtn
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Joined: 30 Aug 2016
Posts: 3961
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| Posted: Sun Jan 22, 2017 12:19 am Post subject: |
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| Jakanzi wrote: | | Runway8 wrote: | | Jakanzi wrote: | That Zubac pick looks amazing right now. That the FO has been so good at drafting but so bad at managing other assets complicates the decision.
I wonder if there's any chance the Lakers hire Sam Hinkie or if he would consider the Lakers.
If Simmons comes back, looks awesome and Philly makes a late playoff push he's going to look very validated. I don't think the Lakers would make an external hire like that with some of the baggage that he has but at the very least you know he's going to be smart with his assets and would've never signed those Mozgov/Deng deals. |
This is the grass is greener elsewhere syndrome. Grass is greener makes you desire a guy who has been fired because Philly too thought grass was greener elsewhere. What validation are you talking about? Who was better at tanking? Both teams drafted according to most experts. Both teams skipped Porzingiis. There is no science to this man. As for Moz and Deng, wasn't there a floor we had to meet in terms of salary?
I like Mitch, but I'm not gonna lose any sleep if he gets fired, and I'm not gonna get excited with whoever you replace him. There is no science to this. You're just replacing the ups and downs of one brass for the future ups and downs of another. |
Hinkie was executing a plan and along the way was active and came out ahead with pretty much every trade he made. Lakers, as best as I can tell, were bad on accident. That's a huge difference.
Only reason I care about Hinkie's validation is that it would make hiring him less hard from a PR standpoint, I'd trust his decision making process even if they didn't get Embiid/Simmons.
The reasons the Moz/Deng deals reflect poor judgement have been beaten to death here but to answer your question, no, there isn't a salary floor that the Lakers had to meet. In the NBA, if you're below the salary floor line, at the end of the year whatever difference there is between the floor and your salary is spread amongst the players. |
so yes their is a salary floor you have to meet. saying otherwise is being disingenuous.
so now you dont over pay for a 7 footer vet with championship experience or a savvy vet to teach the kids in deng. you just overpay for zub, etc. that still is over paying.
now matter how you slice it.
but its not over paying by choice. its by the cba and the new cap ballooning. there's a reason players all around the nba were so called "OVER PAID'. even some of the good ones.
and shame on any thinking hinkie is some great mind when it comes to being the 76ers gm. Anyone on this board could tank on purpose by way of getting rid of any legit asset you have and trade it for pick after pick after pick after pick praying you get the next kobe, bron, shaq, etc in the draft.
that doesnt take skill. anyone saying otherwise has not paid attention to how teams like the lakers and the spurs have won all of these years.
being the worse team and picking #1. then you pick the consensus #1 pick. lol. thats easy. takes ZERO skill.
the only people that believe what he did is cute are those that are about bottoming out every time and praying for the next star to come to town.
You bottom out because your championship team has had its course. see the difference? just having a bunch of young guys and a lot of cap space means nothing if that luck doesn't hit. since you're not using any actual savvy to sign great FA's.
Getting KG in the draft but not knowing how to make moves to get the other guys that use to be on Minny when they made a run at us in the WCF's. means KG is still getting sent home in the first round FOREVER.
So yes eventually you will get your star. but thats all you will end up with.
and you will win some games Eventually and be stuck as a 1st round exist forever.
sure you could get lucky and strike gold twice by tanking 4+ years straight. but those 4 years you are wasting the fans' money. |
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splashmtn
Star Player
Joined: 30 Aug 2016
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| Posted: Sun Jan 22, 2017 12:31 am Post subject: |
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| activeverb wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | lakersfever714 wrote: | | Dr. Buss built a great empire but his dying wish was one that is undoing what it took him half a lifetime to build. Jeanie has to make a decision of either going against her father's wish and fire her brother or sell the team to a new owner. She cannot continue to let her brother run the team into the ground like this. |
The Lakers have increased in value since Dr. Buss passed, so I am not sure what you are talking about. Plus Jeanie can't sell the Lakers, there are 7 owners who would have to agree to sell. |
The team is a financial success. But that can be said of almost every NBA team. The NBA is a juggernaut financially, and I can't attribute the increasing value of the franchise to anything the Buss kids have done. They are definitely in the right place at the right time as far as shielding the bottom line from any on-court disasters.
I'd say it's fair to say the culture and glitter of the Lakers have diminished significantly since Dr. Buss died. So, yeah, from the standpoint of fans if not accountants, it's fair to say Dr. Buss' empire has indeed crumbled.
But, yeah, Jeanie certainly doesn't have power to sell the team, owning only about a 10th of it, and it's anyone's guess if she even fire Jim. |
no that wouldn't be safe to say. what would be safe to say is. you can't win forever. trying to put the losing on jim and the buss kids or all is crazy. But i keep seeing fans do just that.
You win some then you lose some. thats how the cycle goes. we won some rings in that show time era. we lost for a decade or so after. we then drafted kobe(who pushed to be here) and signed shaq(who also wasnt afraid of the bright lights at that time.)
There is no shaq or kobe out there as of yet. and there is no kobe level player in the last few drafts that was bold enough to push to be a laker. and there were no big time FA's that were bold enough to take on the challenge of becoming the next laker great. Most FA's are afraid of becoming a laker due to the fact that would be put to the test of the greatest of l.a's past players. This was not the case during Doc Buss's time as the captain of the ship. The cba drastically changed to stop the laker type teams from huge markets from just snatching up some small market team's best player after they played out their rookie deal(shaq).
This new cba is surely doubling down on that idea.
this is a completely different setup that the buss kids are in. and its much much harder than it was for doc buss and jerry west back then. |
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Jakanzi
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Joined: 10 Jan 2017
Posts: 206
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| Posted: Sun Jan 22, 2017 6:05 am Post subject: |
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| splashmtn wrote: | | Jakanzi wrote: | | Runway8 wrote: | | Jakanzi wrote: | That Zubac pick looks amazing right now. That the FO has been so good at drafting but so bad at managing other assets complicates the decision.
I wonder if there's any chance the Lakers hire Sam Hinkie or if he would consider the Lakers.
If Simmons comes back, looks awesome and Philly makes a late playoff push he's going to look very validated. I don't think the Lakers would make an external hire like that with some of the baggage that he has but at the very least you know he's going to be smart with his assets and would've never signed those Mozgov/Deng deals. |
This is the grass is greener elsewhere syndrome. Grass is greener makes you desire a guy who has been fired because Philly too thought grass was greener elsewhere. What validation are you talking about? Who was better at tanking? Both teams drafted according to most experts. Both teams skipped Porzingiis. There is no science to this man. As for Moz and Deng, wasn't there a floor we had to meet in terms of salary?
I like Mitch, but I'm not gonna lose any sleep if he gets fired, and I'm not gonna get excited with whoever you replace him. There is no science to this. You're just replacing the ups and downs of one brass for the future ups and downs of another. |
Hinkie was executing a plan and along the way was active and came out ahead with pretty much every trade he made. Lakers, as best as I can tell, were bad on accident. That's a huge difference.
Only reason I care about Hinkie's validation is that it would make hiring him less hard from a PR standpoint, I'd trust his decision making process even if they didn't get Embiid/Simmons.
The reasons the Moz/Deng deals reflect poor judgement have been beaten to death here but to answer your question, no, there isn't a salary floor that the Lakers had to meet. In the NBA, if you're below the salary floor line, at the end of the year whatever difference there is between the floor and your salary is spread amongst the players. |
so yes their is a salary floor you have to meet. saying otherwise is being disingenuous.
so now you dont over pay for a 7 footer vet with championship experience or a savvy vet to teach the kids in deng. you just overpay for zub, etc. that still is over paying.
now matter how you slice it.
but its not over paying by choice. its by the cba and the new cap ballooning. there's a reason players all around the nba were so called "OVER PAID'. even some of the good ones.
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No, saying you had to pay Mozgov/Deng to meet a salary floor is being disingenuous cause it implies some mandate from the league. The Lakers don't lose their cap space by being below the salary floor. They turned an asset (cap space) into liabilities (bad long term contracts). "no matter how you slice it" that is bad management.
Yes, there was a cap spike and everybody was getting paid this past summer. But again, the Lakers did not actually have to use their space and they certainly didn't have to use it on barely replacement level players. There's going to be far less buyers in subsequent summers. If home prices suddenly doubled this month, does it make more sense to buy two of them, or none?
No one is saying Hinkie's plan is so brilliant it couldn't be done. I'm saying it was a clear plan that was executed well. Yes, you need luck. Hinkie's approach is an acknowledgement that everybody needs it. You can have all the savvy and culture in the world but the Spurs aren't the Spurs if they don't get lucky and draft Tim Duncan. The Wolves got KG and then lost assets because they tried to do something illegal. Hinkie worked within the CBA's framework structure and made the 76ers into one of the more asset rich teams in the league. |
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JUST-MING
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Joined: 23 Jun 2005
Posts: 43986
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| Posted: Sun Jan 22, 2017 7:05 am Post subject: |
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There is actually a group of people pining for Hickie? Where is the Hall of Fame player or the All-Star players that he discovered during the process? The arguements make that con artist look like the second coming of Jerry West. He is a fraud. There is not a single player on the 76ers roster I'd want aside from the question mark Embiid, but he's always been a question mark, which is why he wasn't the first overall pick.
I have little faith in Kupchak, but I'd rather have him than Hickie  . |
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Runway8
Franchise Player
Joined: 19 Apr 2003
Posts: 22841
Location: La Jolla, San Diego
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| Posted: Sun Jan 22, 2017 11:11 pm Post subject: |
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| Mitch is competent enough. You're not going to do any better by swapping him for another dude. FWIW, Mitch was under West for a gazillion years. Like I said, you need a lot of luck to go along with competence. We could have easily had back to back 1st picks, but we didn't, we got back to back 2nd picks. Maybe this is the year! I believe a coin toss played a roll in both the 79 draft, and the 82 draft. A coin toss folks!! Not figuratively, but literally. In both situations, we ended up with #1 and got Magic and Worthy. No such luck oozing for the Lakers in recent years. Jerry West and Dr Buss were competent people like Mitch, they weren't GODs. They were damn lucky. |
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shaqdiese1
Sixth Man
Joined: 07 Jan 2003
Posts: 38
Location: chesapeake, Va.
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| Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2017 3:42 am Post subject: |
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| Purp 32 wrote: | | Dilla_ wrote: | | Can't the FO just come and say what is going to happen. Whenever Jim is asked about it he says it was a quote from a few years ago and the future shouldn't be dependant on it. And he clearly wants to stay in his current job. Whenever Jennie is asked she just refers back to the quote. It doesn't help when the Lakers will be going for free agents if you don't know what is happening with the front office and it doesn't show what the long-term future is. |
That's the issue, they don't even know. |
Love Jeanie but she needs to stand her ground and be the boss that she always says she is and keep Jim to his word FIRE him...
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GO LAKERS!!!!!!!!!!! |
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lakersfever714
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Joined: 05 Jan 2016
Posts: 11757
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| Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2017 8:35 am Post subject: |
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Again, Mitch isn't the problem. Our problem started when Jim Buss took over. He's Mitch's boss so Mitch has to listen to his advice. It's hard to do a good job when you have to listen to advice from an incompetent.
The bigger problem here is Jeanie won't fire Jim and won't sell the team because of her father's wishes. So...what to do?
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LeGoat! LeMazing! LeGend!
Last edited by lakersfever714 on Mon Jan 23, 2017 8:37 am; edited 1 time in total |
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justsomelakerfan
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Joined: 16 Jul 2016
Posts: 10939
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| Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2017 8:37 am Post subject: |
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I don't trust Jeanie to make the right call in hiring a competent replacement.
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Austin Reaves
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Omar Little
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Joined: 02 May 2005
Posts: 90306
Location: Formerly Known As 24
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| Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2017 8:49 am Post subject: |
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| lakersfever714 wrote: | Again, Mitch isn't the problem. Our problem started when Jim Buss took over. He's Mitch's boss so Mitch has to listen to his advice. It's hard to do a good job when you have to listen to advice from an incompetent.
The bigger problem here is Jeanie won't fire Jim and won't sell the team because of her father's wishes. So...what to do? |
There's no evidence of JIm big footing mitch. |
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J.C. Smith
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Joined: 23 Jun 2005
Posts: 12670
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| Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2017 8:50 am Post subject: |
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| lakersfever714 wrote: | | Again, Mitch isn't the problem. Our problem started when Jim Buss took over. He's Mitch's boss so Mitch has to listen to his advice. It's hard to do a good job when you have to listen to advice from an incompetent. |
Jim was in his position long before Jerry died, he just didn't have Dr. Buss as the safety net. If you are trying to coincide Dr. Buss' death though to the downfall of the team though that's kind of silly. The moves had already been made going all in for another title before he died. The Jim Buss era began with a Lakers consisting of Nash/Kobe/Dwight/Pau struggling just to make the playoffs, then by the end of the year all but losing Nash and Kobe, and having Dwight walk because he knew dark days were ahead. He was right. Nash never played effectively again, Kobe had a handful of good moments over the next few years before retiring. Meanwhile they had surrendered their picks to bring that combination together. Of course things went downhill at that point. And the same thing would have happened if Dr. Buss were still alive. |
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BigGameHames
Star Player
Joined: 24 May 2015
Posts: 7982
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| Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2017 8:51 am Post subject: |
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Keep Sam Hinkie as far away from the Lakers as possible. Being bad on purpose is not better than being bad on accident. You end up with the same result either way. It just means you have a bad plan if being the worst NBA team in recent memory is you accomplishing your goal. They've had a few good weeks but let's not give the 76ers too much credit. It took them 5 years of disgusting basketball to be a long shot at the playoffs. We can't even begin to say Hinkie has been "validated" in any way until they are a legit title contender. Bottoming out that badly can only be remedied by a championship.
The 76ers have some good young talent because of Hinkie but they still have a long way to go before they accomplish anything meaningful. Hinkie made a mockery of basketball and should never get another FO job. And certainly shouldn't be commended for what's he has done. That's a losing mentality. |
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Jakanzi
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Posts: 206
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| Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2017 9:05 am Post subject: |
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| BigGameHames wrote: | | Being bad on purpose is not better than being bad on accident. You end up with the same result either way. |
Here's what the Lakers have in terms of future draft picks that aren't their own. Note that they might not even have their own high first rounder for 2 of the next 3 years.
2018 second round draft pick from Denver
2019 second round draft pick from Chicago
Here's what the Sixers have in terms of future draft assets that aren't their own.
2017 first round draft pick from L.A. Lakers
2017 first round draft pick from Sacramento (swap, Philadelphia outgoing)
2017 second round draft picks from Detroit and/or Golden State and/or New York and/or Utah (most and least favorable)
2018 second round draft pick from Cleveland or Brooklyn (more favorable)
2018 second round draft pick from L.A. Clippers or New York (more favorable)
2019 first round draft pick from Sacramento
2019 second round draft pick from Milwaukee or Sacramento (more favorable)
2019 second round draft pick from New York
2020 first round draft pick from Oklahoma City
2020 second round draft pick from Brooklyn
2020 second round draft pick from New York
2021 second round draft pick from New York
This is ignoring cap space (which Philly has an abundance of and the Lakers have turned into negatives in Mozgov/Deng) and current players (Philly has a franchise player and a better record than us this year).
Otherwise though, sure, totally the same result. |
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Ziggy
Franchise Player
Joined: 10 Feb 2005
Posts: 12712
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| Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2017 9:07 am Post subject: |
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| splashmtn wrote: | | activeverb wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | lakersfever714 wrote: | | Dr. Buss built a great empire but his dying wish was one that is undoing what it took him half a lifetime to build. Jeanie has to make a decision of either going against her father's wish and fire her brother or sell the team to a new owner. She cannot continue to let her brother run the team into the ground like this. |
The Lakers have increased in value since Dr. Buss passed, so I am not sure what you are talking about. Plus Jeanie can't sell the Lakers, there are 7 owners who would have to agree to sell. |
The team is a financial success. But that can be said of almost every NBA team. The NBA is a juggernaut financially, and I can't attribute the increasing value of the franchise to anything the Buss kids have done. They are definitely in the right place at the right time as far as shielding the bottom line from any on-court disasters.
I'd say it's fair to say the culture and glitter of the Lakers have diminished significantly since Dr. Buss died. So, yeah, from the standpoint of fans if not accountants, it's fair to say Dr. Buss' empire has indeed crumbled.
But, yeah, Jeanie certainly doesn't have power to sell the team, owning only about a 10th of it, and it's anyone's guess if she even fire Jim. |
no that wouldn't be safe to say. what would be safe to say is. you can't win forever. trying to put the losing on jim and the buss kids or all is crazy. But i keep seeing fans do just that.
You win some then you lose some. thats how the cycle goes. we won some rings in that show time era. we lost for a decade or so after. we then drafted kobe(who pushed to be here) and signed shaq(who also wasnt afraid of the bright lights at that time.)
There is no shaq or kobe out there as of yet. and there is no kobe level player in the last few drafts that was bold enough to push to be a laker. and there were no big time FA's that were bold enough to take on the challenge of becoming the next laker great. Most FA's are afraid of becoming a laker due to the fact that would be put to the test of the greatest of l.a's past players. This was not the case during Doc Buss's time as the captain of the ship. The cba drastically changed to stop the laker type teams from huge markets from just snatching up some small market team's best player after they played out their rookie deal(shaq).
This new cba is surely doubling down on that idea.
this is a completely different setup that the buss kids are in. and its much much harder than it was for doc buss and jerry west back then. |
There was also no restricted free agency when Shaq signed with us. One year before or one year after and he would've been restricted and we would've had no chance to sign him because Orlando would've matched.
The Lakers have been patient opportunists throughout their history. They can be annoyingly conservative until that right deal presents itself. People point to the post-Magic era and how we were still competitive. That's true, but many of those players were drafted and players in that era came out of college later. The players we have now are not just young, but too young for the NBA. |
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Omar Little
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Location: Formerly Known As 24
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| Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2017 9:18 am Post subject: |
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| True about no restricted free agency with Shaq, but also true that there wasn't any different number if years and raises that Orlando could give Shaq. West could play on equal footing. And of course Kobe isn't available in 96 under the new rules. He has to play a year in college. Not only does that mean LA doesn't get him, but it means he likely goes much higher when he comes out, as he would have after his first year in the pros. |
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BigGameHames
Star Player
Joined: 24 May 2015
Posts: 7982
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| Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2017 9:44 am Post subject: |
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| Jakanzi wrote: | | BigGameHames wrote: | | Being bad on purpose is not better than being bad on accident. You end up with the same result either way. |
Here's what the Lakers have in terms of future draft picks that aren't their own. Note that they might not even have their own high first rounder for 2 of the next 3 years.
2018 second round draft pick from Denver
2019 second round draft pick from Chicago
Here's what the Sixers have in terms of future draft assets that aren't their own.
2017 first round draft pick from L.A. Lakers
2017 first round draft pick from Sacramento (swap, Philadelphia outgoing)
2017 second round draft picks from Detroit and/or Golden State and/or New York and/or Utah (most and least favorable)
2018 second round draft pick from Cleveland or Brooklyn (more favorable)
2018 second round draft pick from L.A. Clippers or New York (more favorable)
2019 first round draft pick from Sacramento
2019 second round draft pick from Milwaukee or Sacramento (more favorable)
2019 second round draft pick from New York
2020 first round draft pick from Oklahoma City
2020 second round draft pick from Brooklyn
2020 second round draft pick from New York
2021 second round draft pick from New York
This is ignoring cap space (which Philly has an abundance of and the Lakers have turned into negatives in Mozgov/Deng) and current players (Philly has a franchise player and a better record than us this year).
Otherwise though, sure, totally the same result. |
Sure they've collected more draft picks. They don't have a franchise player. Embiid may become one(just like Ingram and Russell) but you can't call him one yet. 15-27 or 16-32, is one really that much better than the other? Come on now. We can revisit this in 5 years and see where these teams stand but you're clearly jumping to conclusions because the sixers have had s good January. |
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venturalakersfan
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Joined: 14 Apr 2001
Posts: 144461
Location: The Gold Coast
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| Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2017 10:17 am Post subject: |
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| shaqdiese1 wrote: | | Purp 32 wrote: | | Dilla_ wrote: | | Can't the FO just come and say what is going to happen. Whenever Jim is asked about it he says it was a quote from a few years ago and the future shouldn't be dependant on it. And he clearly wants to stay in his current job. Whenever Jennie is asked she just refers back to the quote. It doesn't help when the Lakers will be going for free agents if you don't know what is happening with the front office and it doesn't show what the long-term future is. |
That's the issue, they don't even know. |
Love Jeanie but she needs to stand her ground and be the boss that she always says she is and keep Jim to his word FIRE him... |
Only she isn't the boss, she is one vote and every other Buss kid is also one vote.
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RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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venturalakersfan
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Posts: 144461
Location: The Gold Coast
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| Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2017 10:19 am Post subject: |
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| lakersfever714 wrote: | Again, Mitch isn't the problem. Our problem started when Jim Buss took over. He's Mitch's boss so Mitch has to listen to his advice. It's hard to do a good job when you have to listen to advice from an incompetent.
The bigger problem here is Jeanie won't fire Jim and won't sell the team because of her father's wishes. So...what to do? |
Jim took over in 2005, love that three Finals trips and two titles were our problems. Such bad times!
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RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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Krispy Kreme
Franchise Player
Joined: 30 Mar 2003
Posts: 12252
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| Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2017 10:20 am Post subject: |
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Yes, Jim took over in 2005 and Jerry gave him the keys then. Right. Needed some laughs on Monday morning.
Thanks!
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Dominating every day. |
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Jakanzi
Starting Rotation
Joined: 10 Jan 2017
Posts: 206
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| Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2017 10:23 am Post subject: |
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| BigGameHames wrote: | | Jakanzi wrote: | | BigGameHames wrote: | | Being bad on purpose is not better than being bad on accident. You end up with the same result either way. |
Here's what the Lakers have in terms of future draft picks that aren't their own. Note that they might not even have their own high first rounder for 2 of the next 3 years.
2018 second round draft pick from Denver
2019 second round draft pick from Chicago
Here's what the Sixers have in terms of future draft assets that aren't their own.
2017 first round draft pick from L.A. Lakers
2017 first round draft pick from Sacramento (swap, Philadelphia outgoing)
2017 second round draft picks from Detroit and/or Golden State and/or New York and/or Utah (most and least favorable)
2018 second round draft pick from Cleveland or Brooklyn (more favorable)
2018 second round draft pick from L.A. Clippers or New York (more favorable)
2019 first round draft pick from Sacramento
2019 second round draft pick from Milwaukee or Sacramento (more favorable)
2019 second round draft pick from New York
2020 first round draft pick from Oklahoma City
2020 second round draft pick from Brooklyn
2020 second round draft pick from New York
2021 second round draft pick from New York
This is ignoring cap space (which Philly has an abundance of and the Lakers have turned into negatives in Mozgov/Deng) and current players (Philly has a franchise player and a better record than us this year).
Otherwise though, sure, totally the same result. |
Sure they've collected more draft picks. They don't have a franchise player. Embiid may become one(just like Ingram and Russell) but you can't call him one yet. 15-27 or 16-32, is one really that much better than the other? Come on now. We can revisit this in 5 years and see where these teams stand but you're clearly jumping to conclusions because the sixers have had s good January. |
Draft picks are important and increasingly so. They give you the ability to make future deals and young players on cheap salaries. They're incredibly valuable. It is a huge difference.
I'm definitely being opportunistic with my argument in terms of timing but if you evaluate what the Sixers did objectively they gave themselves the best chance for something like this to happen. It's certainly possible that in 5 years the Lakers are better. But is it likely given what we know?
Imagine if these were people. Steve has $5000 and a track record of saving for the future. Larry has $1000 and is an impulsive spender. Who has more money in 5 years? It could very well be Larry. There's so much chance involved and a lot of things can change in 5 years. Larry could win the lottery twice. Steve could get gravely ill and be bankrupted by medical bills. Either of them could become more or less responsible. It doesn't mean that 5 years ago Larry was making better or even equally good decisions. |
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Omar Little
Moderator
Joined: 02 May 2005
Posts: 90306
Location: Formerly Known As 24
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| Posted: Mon Jan 23, 2017 10:26 am Post subject: |
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In fairness, Jim only made the bad decisions, like hiring Rudy T. He was excused when good decisions were being made.
Sarcasm aside, Jim held the same job on the ops side that Jeanie did on the marketing and business side, and did so since 2005. Jerry Buss was there to guide, council, and veto either, but both were running their departments for a long time before Jerry died. |
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