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activeverb
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 Posted: Wed Feb 01, 2017 11:41 pm Post subject: |
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| SuperboyReformed wrote: | | activeverb wrote: | | SuperboyReformed wrote: | | Tony Anapolis wrote: | | I honestly don't think Magic gets more rings. They weren't beating Mj. |
he could have teamed up with mj. or he could have teamed up with barkley and KJ, and made maybe 4-5 more finals. making a total of about 15 finals appearances. wouldn't be any different than what is happening now. |
The ironic thing is that the Showtime Lakers (and the Boston Celtics during that era) were more "superteams" that any team in this era.
What's going in today isn't new. Heck 33 years ago, reigning MVP Moses Malone joined the guy who had won the MVP just before him, Dr. J., and they immediately won a ring.
Great players have always wanted to have as much talent around them as possible. I don't think Lebron, Curry and Durant are any different than Magic, Bird, Kobe and MJ before them. |
i can understand why people would say that, but its not really an accurate statement. thats like saying the old Boston team was a superteam. the superteam as we know it was probably started with the barkely move, but really the blazers are the ones (or both). its different when a player just jumps ship. thats the difference, of course.
who cares if someone makes a superteam anyway? nothing wrong with that.
the other big difference is just the money. the money changes things, and todays money is crazy compared to before. so to compare their situations is a very different thing. |
Seems like the first superteam would be Moses Malone joining Dr. J and the defending eastern conference champs in 1983. It's been happening ever since NBA players could become free agents.
True players today make huge sums, but the $2 million Malone said in 1983 was a huge amount for the time. NBA stars have been rich for a long time. |
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SuperboyReformed
Star Player
Joined: 07 Oct 2012
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| Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2017 11:21 am Post subject: |
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| activeverb wrote: | | SuperboyReformed wrote: | | activeverb wrote: | | SuperboyReformed wrote: | | Tony Anapolis wrote: | | I honestly don't think Magic gets more rings. They weren't beating Mj. |
he could have teamed up with mj. or he could have teamed up with barkley and KJ, and made maybe 4-5 more finals. making a total of about 15 finals appearances. wouldn't be any different than what is happening now. |
The ironic thing is that the Showtime Lakers (and the Boston Celtics during that era) were more "superteams" that any team in this era.
What's going in today isn't new. Heck 33 years ago, reigning MVP Moses Malone joined the guy who had won the MVP just before him, Dr. J., and they immediately won a ring.
Great players have always wanted to have as much talent around them as possible. I don't think Lebron, Curry and Durant are any different than Magic, Bird, Kobe and MJ before them. |
i can understand why people would say that, but its not really an accurate statement. thats like saying the old Boston team was a superteam. the superteam as we know it was probably started with the barkely move, but really the blazers are the ones (or both). its different when a player just jumps ship. thats the difference, of course.
who cares if someone makes a superteam anyway? nothing wrong with that.
the other big difference is just the money. the money changes things, and todays money is crazy compared to before. so to compare their situations is a very different thing. |
Seems like the first superteam would be Moses Malone joining Dr. J and the defending eastern conference champs in 1983. It's been happening ever since NBA players could become free agents.
True players today make huge sums, but the $2 million Malone said in 1983 was a huge amount for the time. NBA stars have been rich for a long time. |
well not sure what the point is, but things were very different. if youre pt is that malone was a star and dr. j was a star and they ended up on the same team at one point, yes that part is the same. i also agree that malone made more money than a regular person, and lebron also makes more money than a regular person. that is the same as well.
edit..gdit, av, i keep thinking this is the lebron thread. isnt this ot?? |
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activeverb
Retired Number
Joined: 17 Jun 2006
Posts: 37470
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| Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2017 12:41 pm Post subject: |
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| SuperboyReformed wrote: | | activeverb wrote: | | SuperboyReformed wrote: | | activeverb wrote: | | SuperboyReformed wrote: | | Tony Anapolis wrote: | | I honestly don't think Magic gets more rings. They weren't beating Mj. |
he could have teamed up with mj. or he could have teamed up with barkley and KJ, and made maybe 4-5 more finals. making a total of about 15 finals appearances. wouldn't be any different than what is happening now. |
The ironic thing is that the Showtime Lakers (and the Boston Celtics during that era) were more "superteams" that any team in this era.
What's going in today isn't new. Heck 33 years ago, reigning MVP Moses Malone joined the guy who had won the MVP just before him, Dr. J., and they immediately won a ring.
Great players have always wanted to have as much talent around them as possible. I don't think Lebron, Curry and Durant are any different than Magic, Bird, Kobe and MJ before them. |
i can understand why people would say that, but its not really an accurate statement. thats like saying the old Boston team was a superteam. the superteam as we know it was probably started with the barkely move, but really the blazers are the ones (or both). its different when a player just jumps ship. thats the difference, of course.
who cares if someone makes a superteam anyway? nothing wrong with that.
the other big difference is just the money. the money changes things, and todays money is crazy compared to before. so to compare their situations is a very different thing. |
Seems like the first superteam would be Moses Malone joining Dr. J and the defending eastern conference champs in 1983. It's been happening ever since NBA players could become free agents.
True players today make huge sums, but the $2 million Malone said in 1983 was a huge amount for the time. NBA stars have been rich for a long time. |
well not sure what the point is, but things were very different. if youre pt is that malone was a star and dr. j was a star and they ended up on the same team at one point, yes that part is the same. i also agree that malone made more money than a regular person, and lebron also makes more money than a regular person. that is the same as well.
edit..gdit, av, i keep thinking this is the lebron thread. isnt this ot?? |
My point is that players have been forming themselves into superteams for as long as free agency allowed them to.
Durant joining the defending western champ Warriors this year is no different than Moses Malone joining the defending eastern champ 76ers 30 years ago.
And I don't think it's a confidence that most of the guys in the running for GOAT played on superteams: MJ, Kareem, Magic, Bird, Lebron, Kobe, Russell, Duncan.
So it's strange to me when people criticize players for signing onto superteams. That's been the pathway to success throughout the history of the NBA, and most of the best players have been on superteams. The only difference is whether the player intiatiated the move to the superteam himself or was lucky enough to have a GM create a superteam for him. |
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governator
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Joined: 28 Jan 2006
Posts: 25077
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| Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2017 12:44 pm Post subject: |
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| activeverb wrote: | | SuperboyReformed wrote: | | activeverb wrote: | | SuperboyReformed wrote: | | activeverb wrote: | | SuperboyReformed wrote: | | Tony Anapolis wrote: | | I honestly don't think Magic gets more rings. They weren't beating Mj. |
he could have teamed up with mj. or he could have teamed up with barkley and KJ, and made maybe 4-5 more finals. making a total of about 15 finals appearances. wouldn't be any different than what is happening now. |
The ironic thing is that the Showtime Lakers (and the Boston Celtics during that era) were more "superteams" that any team in this era.
What's going in today isn't new. Heck 33 years ago, reigning MVP Moses Malone joined the guy who had won the MVP just before him, Dr. J., and they immediately won a ring.
Great players have always wanted to have as much talent around them as possible. I don't think Lebron, Curry and Durant are any different than Magic, Bird, Kobe and MJ before them. |
i can understand why people would say that, but its not really an accurate statement. thats like saying the old Boston team was a superteam. the superteam as we know it was probably started with the barkely move, but really the blazers are the ones (or both). its different when a player just jumps ship. thats the difference, of course.
who cares if someone makes a superteam anyway? nothing wrong with that.
the other big difference is just the money. the money changes things, and todays money is crazy compared to before. so to compare their situations is a very different thing. |
Seems like the first superteam would be Moses Malone joining Dr. J and the defending eastern conference champs in 1983. It's been happening ever since NBA players could become free agents.
True players today make huge sums, but the $2 million Malone said in 1983 was a huge amount for the time. NBA stars have been rich for a long time. |
well not sure what the point is, but things were very different. if youre pt is that malone was a star and dr. j was a star and they ended up on the same team at one point, yes that part is the same. i also agree that malone made more money than a regular person, and lebron also makes more money than a regular person. that is the same as well.
edit..gdit, av, i keep thinking this is the lebron thread. isnt this ot?? |
My point is that players have been forming themselves into superteams for as long as free agency allowed them to.
Durant joining the defending western champ Warriors this year is no different than Moses Malone joining the defending eastern champ 76ers 30 years ago.
And I don't think it's a confidence that most of the guys in the running for GOAT played on superteams: MJ, Kareem, Magic, Bird, Lebron, Kobe, Russell, Duncan.
So it's strange to me when people criticize players for signing onto superteams. That's been the pathway to success throughout the history of the NBA, and most of the best players have been on superteams. The only difference is whether the player intiatiated the move to the superteam himself or was lucky enough to have a GM create a superteam for him. |
I don't know man, quite different between passively drafted into a super team and actively going and form a superteam |
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activeverb
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Joined: 17 Jun 2006
Posts: 37470
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| Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2017 1:26 pm Post subject: |
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| governator wrote: | | activeverb wrote: | | SuperboyReformed wrote: | | activeverb wrote: | | SuperboyReformed wrote: | | activeverb wrote: | | SuperboyReformed wrote: | | Tony Anapolis wrote: | | I honestly don't think Magic gets more rings. They weren't beating Mj. |
he could have teamed up with mj. or he could have teamed up with barkley and KJ, and made maybe 4-5 more finals. making a total of about 15 finals appearances. wouldn't be any different than what is happening now. |
The ironic thing is that the Showtime Lakers (and the Boston Celtics during that era) were more "superteams" that any team in this era.
What's going in today isn't new. Heck 33 years ago, reigning MVP Moses Malone joined the guy who had won the MVP just before him, Dr. J., and they immediately won a ring.
Great players have always wanted to have as much talent around them as possible. I don't think Lebron, Curry and Durant are any different than Magic, Bird, Kobe and MJ before them. |
i can understand why people would say that, but its not really an accurate statement. thats like saying the old Boston team was a superteam. the superteam as we know it was probably started with the barkely move, but really the blazers are the ones (or both). its different when a player just jumps ship. thats the difference, of course.
who cares if someone makes a superteam anyway? nothing wrong with that.
the other big difference is just the money. the money changes things, and todays money is crazy compared to before. so to compare their situations is a very different thing. |
Seems like the first superteam would be Moses Malone joining Dr. J and the defending eastern conference champs in 1983. It's been happening ever since NBA players could become free agents.
True players today make huge sums, but the $2 million Malone said in 1983 was a huge amount for the time. NBA stars have been rich for a long time. |
well not sure what the point is, but things were very different. if youre pt is that malone was a star and dr. j was a star and they ended up on the same team at one point, yes that part is the same. i also agree that malone made more money than a regular person, and lebron also makes more money than a regular person. that is the same as well.
edit..gdit, av, i keep thinking this is the lebron thread. isnt this ot?? |
My point is that players have been forming themselves into superteams for as long as free agency allowed them to.
Durant joining the defending western champ Warriors this year is no different than Moses Malone joining the defending eastern champ 76ers 30 years ago.
And I don't think it's a confidence that most of the guys in the running for GOAT played on superteams: MJ, Kareem, Magic, Bird, Lebron, Kobe, Russell, Duncan.
So it's strange to me when people criticize players for signing onto superteams. That's been the pathway to success throughout the history of the NBA, and most of the best players have been on superteams. The only difference is whether the player intiatiated the move to the superteam himself or was lucky enough to have a GM create a superteam for him. |
I don't know man, quite different between passively drafted into a super team and actively going and form a superteam |
I don't see the difference myself. I don't see why it's cool to be lucky and be drafted onto superteam (Magic) but it's uncool to be smart and form your own (Durant).
In either case the end result is the same.
I don't know why we think Bird did something noble or made some sacrifice by staying on a team where he was surrounded by Hall of Famers from the beginning to the end of his career.
I don't know why Moses Malone did some unnoble by leaving a .500 Houston Rockets team to join the defending eastern champs where he immediately won a ring.
All these guys act in their own self interest. it was simply in Bird's and Magic's self-interest to stay, and in Durants and Malone's self-interest to leave. |
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SuperboyReformed
Star Player
Joined: 07 Oct 2012
Posts: 4083
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| Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2017 1:43 pm Post subject: |
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things are a little mixed up here. any player who joins or is on a superteam is not doing a bad thing. no problem.
But there are some that do and some that don't. The ones that do, they cant go to the ones that didn't and say "Hey, see? Look how much better than you i am with all these championships, stats, and accolades." If durant wins a ring, and starts shoving it westbrooks face saying "see i told you i was way better than you"...that would be very annoying to everyone. |
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activeverb
Retired Number
Joined: 17 Jun 2006
Posts: 37470
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| Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2017 2:09 pm Post subject: |
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| SuperboyReformed wrote: | things are a little mixed up here. any player who joins or is on a superteam is not doing a bad thing. no problem.
But there are some that do and some that don't. The ones that do, they cant go to the ones that didn't and say "Hey, see? Look how much better than you i am with all these championships, stats, and accolades." If durant wins a ring, and starts shoving it westbrooks face saying "see i told you i was way better than you"...that would be very annoying to everyone. |
Does a guy who joins a superteam via free agency have less right to brag in your opinion than a guy who is drafted onto a superteam?
Do you find it less annoying when MJ or Magic brag because they were drafted onto their superteam?
Do you think Curry has a right to brag because he was drafted onto the Warriors but Durant doesn't because he joined them as a free agent?
Is the issue how someone joins a superteam or is the issue bragging about winning with a superteam no matter how the team was formed? |
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SuperboyReformed
Star Player
Joined: 07 Oct 2012
Posts: 4083
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| Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2017 4:56 pm Post subject: |
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| activeverb wrote: | | SuperboyReformed wrote: | things are a little mixed up here. any player who joins or is on a superteam is not doing a bad thing. no problem.
But there are some that do and some that don't. The ones that do, they cant go to the ones that didn't and say "Hey, see? Look how much better than you i am with all these championships, stats, and accolades." If durant wins a ring, and starts shoving it westbrooks face saying "see i told you i was way better than you"...that would be very annoying to everyone. |
Does a guy who joins a superteam via free agency have less right to brag in your opinion than a guy who is drafted onto a superteam?
Do you find it less annoying when MJ or Magic brag because they were drafted onto their superteam?
Do you think Curry has a right to brag because he was drafted onto the Warriors but Durant doesn't because he joined them as a free agent?
Is the issue how someone joins a superteam or is the issue bragging about winning with a superteam no matter how the team was formed? |
yes
no
no
bragging |
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activeverb
Retired Number
Joined: 17 Jun 2006
Posts: 37470
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| Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2017 6:32 pm Post subject: |
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| SuperboyReformed wrote: | | activeverb wrote: | | SuperboyReformed wrote: | things are a little mixed up here. any player who joins or is on a superteam is not doing a bad thing. no problem.
But there are some that do and some that don't. The ones that do, they cant go to the ones that didn't and say "Hey, see? Look how much better than you i am with all these championships, stats, and accolades." If durant wins a ring, and starts shoving it westbrooks face saying "see i told you i was way better than you"...that would be very annoying to everyone. |
Does a guy who joins a superteam via free agency have less right to brag in your opinion than a guy who is drafted onto a superteam?
Do you find it less annoying when MJ or Magic brag because they were drafted onto their superteam?
Do you think Curry has a right to brag because he was drafted onto the Warriors but Durant doesn't because he joined them as a free agent?
Is the issue how someone joins a superteam or is the issue bragging about winning with a superteam no matter how the team was formed? |
yes
no
no
bragging |
So is his what you think: There is no difference between being drafted onto a superteam or joining one as a free agent. Either route is equally valid. The main thing is that anyone connected to a superteam shouldn't brag about winning.
Last edited by activeverb on Thu Feb 02, 2017 10:25 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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ClemensBriels
Sixth Man
Joined: 14 Jan 2017
Posts: 80
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| Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2017 6:53 pm Post subject: |
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| So players deserve more credit for being drafted into better situations. OK. |
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activeverb
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Joined: 17 Jun 2006
Posts: 37470
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| Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2017 2:54 pm Post subject: |
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| ClemensBriels wrote: | | So players deserve more credit for being drafted into better situations. OK. |
I haven't seen anyone ever make a strong argument why this matters except for tooting their own horn "My favorite player never switched teams and yours did, so mine is better than yours."
It's a self serving attempt to imbue your favorite player with a higher ethical character, though usually it strikes me players stay put out of self-interest rather than any ethical stance.
My philosophy is pretty simple. A ring is a ring is a ring.
And plenty of superteams have failed. So just joining a superteam doesn't guarantee success. You still have to do it on the court. And if you do, you deserve the credit |
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1hu2ren3dui4
Franchise Player
Joined: 19 Jul 2002
Posts: 15403
Location: Oak Park
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| Posted: Wed Feb 15, 2017 1:22 am Post subject: |
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| Yeah. Nobody remembers the super team they just count your rings. |
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