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Are the Lakers ahead of schedule or not? |
Yes |
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53% |
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No |
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40% |
[ 33 ] |
In a holding Pattern |
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6% |
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Total Votes : 81 |
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pio2u Retired Number
Joined: 26 Dec 2012 Posts: 54520
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Posted: Mon Dec 26, 2016 11:57 am Post subject: Are the Lakers ahead of schedule or not? |
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As a fan, the question is : Are the Lakers ahead of schedule or not?
Why, why not, discuss
*Lakers continue to show that they're far ahead of schedule
Quote: | Let's be clear -- the Lakers are far ahead of schedule, so far that, again, expectations are wildly askew. They didn't achieve their 11th win last season until Feb. 26, and by then they already had lost 49 games. For the Lakers, this season is about building a foundation upon which future success can grow. First and foremost, Walton is trying to forge a culture while gauging what his young core is and might one day be. Wins are a bonus -- and already there have been more than enough to appease even the most die-hard Lakers fan -- but it's more about making an impression on the team and on others around the league, which has already happened. |
http://www.espn.com/blog/los-angeles/lakers/post/_/id/43555/lakers-continue-to-show-that-theyre-far-ahead-of-schedule |
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venturalakersfan Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144432 Location: The Gold Coast
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Posted: Mon Dec 26, 2016 12:03 pm Post subject: |
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I consider the "schedule" to be improving, and they are doing that. So now, they aren't ahead of that schedule, but they are achieving it. _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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Omar Little Moderator
Joined: 02 May 2005 Posts: 90299 Location: Formerly Known As 24
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Posted: Mon Dec 26, 2016 12:05 pm Post subject: |
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Absolutely. If they don't have a mountain of injuries right in the middle of their toughest stretch with an obscene road trip and no practice days, they probably have several more wins right now and we're still talking about this amazing playoff challenge by this young team. As is, they are still in striking distance, and they have more wins than they had until March last year. _________________ “We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel |
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justsomelakerfan Franchise Player
Joined: 16 Jul 2016 Posts: 10939
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Posted: Mon Dec 26, 2016 12:05 pm Post subject: |
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They're... Where they should be, mostly.
What's slightly concerning is that Suns and Lakers are the only two teams currently without a big breakout young player. Plenty of time for that to change within the next year or two.
However, on draft night, without a lotto pick, I'd say the Lakers fall behind every youth movement. _________________ Austin Reaves
Tweeter: @sarah_dotbiz |
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Omar Little Moderator
Joined: 02 May 2005 Posts: 90299 Location: Formerly Known As 24
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Posted: Mon Dec 26, 2016 12:07 pm Post subject: |
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justsomelakerfan wrote: | They're... Where they should be, mostly.
What's slightly concerning is that Suns and Lakers are the only two teams currently without a big breakout young player. Plenty of time for that to change within the next year or two.
However, on draft night, without a lotto pick, I'd say the Lakers fall behind every youth movement. |
Which ones? The ones that are worse teams than the Lakers right now with their breakout players? Or the ones that are stalled at middle? _________________ “We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel |
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Mike@LG Moderator
Joined: 10 Apr 2001 Posts: 65135 Location: Orange County, CA
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Posted: Mon Dec 26, 2016 12:08 pm Post subject: |
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On schedule.
Young players improving? Yes.
Individual offensive skill development? Yes.
Individual defensive skill development? Yes.
Better approach to winning games? Yes.
We're what, 30 games ahead compared to last year in terms of matching wins? Shows progression. _________________ Resident Car Nut.
https://lakersdraft.substack.com/
I am not an economic advisor nor do I advise economic strategies or plans. |
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Inspector Gadget Retired Number
Joined: 18 Apr 2016 Posts: 46492
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Posted: Mon Dec 26, 2016 12:09 pm Post subject: |
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Absolutely. |
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justsomelakerfan Franchise Player
Joined: 16 Jul 2016 Posts: 10939
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Posted: Mon Dec 26, 2016 12:13 pm Post subject: |
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Omar Little wrote: | justsomelakerfan wrote: | They're... Where they should be, mostly.
What's slightly concerning is that Suns and Lakers are the only two teams currently without a big breakout young player. Plenty of time for that to change within the next year or two.
However, on draft night, without a lotto pick, I'd say the Lakers fall behind every youth movement. |
Which ones? The ones that are worse teams than the Lakers right now with their breakout players? Or the ones that are stalled at middle? |
Wolves and Philly have worse records, so the Lakers are in better shape in today's date... But their future outlook looks rosier which factors into my answer. Wolves have three breakout young players at this current point in time. Philly has one in Embiid, can't say a thing about Simmons yet.
That leaves the Lakers and Suns with admittedly good and younger collections of talent than the teams listed above, with no player having a big season yet.
But that Suns team is going to add a big lotto pick and get older. We're just getting older. I'm not thrilled about that.
In all honesty, I don't know where the Lakers are going even if/when Russell breaks out in a year or so, or even the second half of this season. _________________ Austin Reaves
Tweeter: @sarah_dotbiz |
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yinoma2001 Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 119487
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Posted: Mon Dec 26, 2016 12:16 pm Post subject: |
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Yup. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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silkwilkes Star Player
Joined: 15 Jul 2002 Posts: 6937 Location: searching for the mojo of Dr. Buss
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Posted: Mon Dec 26, 2016 12:20 pm Post subject: |
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Hard to say. I get the tough early schedule part... but then the Lakers should do well over the next 30-45 days as a result. If they actually get the results in that span, then I would say ahead of schedule. If the team continues to struggle despite an easy schedule, then I would have to think about it. _________________ "He may say it's not you, it's him.... but it's really you." |
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Mike@LG Moderator
Joined: 10 Apr 2001 Posts: 65135 Location: Orange County, CA
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Posted: Mon Dec 26, 2016 12:20 pm Post subject: |
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justsomelakerfan wrote: | Omar Little wrote: | justsomelakerfan wrote: | They're... Where they should be, mostly.
What's slightly concerning is that Suns and Lakers are the only two teams currently without a big breakout young player. Plenty of time for that to change within the next year or two.
However, on draft night, without a lotto pick, I'd say the Lakers fall behind every youth movement. |
Which ones? The ones that are worse teams than the Lakers right now with their breakout players? Or the ones that are stalled at middle? |
Wolves and Philly have worse records, so the Lakers are in better shape in today's date... But their future outlook looks rosier which factors into my answer. Wolves have three breakout young players at this current point in time. Philly has one in Embiid, can't say a thing about Simmons yet.
That leaves the Lakers and Suns with admittedly good and younger collections of talent than the teams listed above, with no player having a big season yet.
But that Suns team is going to add a big lotto pick and get older. We're just getting older. I'm not thrilled about that.
In all honesty, I don't know where the Lakers are going even if/when Russell breaks out in a year or so, or even the second half of this season. |
The Wolves make me happy that Thibs isn't a Laker coach. Dude has great 2nd tier scoring types in Wiggins, LaVine, and Towns, but can't generate wins. That's not progress. _________________ Resident Car Nut.
https://lakersdraft.substack.com/
I am not an economic advisor nor do I advise economic strategies or plans. |
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Omar Little Moderator
Joined: 02 May 2005 Posts: 90299 Location: Formerly Known As 24
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Posted: Mon Dec 26, 2016 12:21 pm Post subject: |
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justsomelakerfan wrote: | Omar Little wrote: | justsomelakerfan wrote: | They're... Where they should be, mostly.
What's slightly concerning is that Suns and Lakers are the only two teams currently without a big breakout young player. Plenty of time for that to change within the next year or two.
However, on draft night, without a lotto pick, I'd say the Lakers fall behind every youth movement. |
Which ones? The ones that are worse teams than the Lakers right now with their breakout players? Or the ones that are stalled at middle? |
Wolves and Philly have worse records, so the Lakers are in better shape in today's date... But their future outlook looks rosier which factors into my answer. Wolves have three breakout young players at this current point in time. Philly has one in Embiid, can't say a thing about Simmons yet.
That leaves the Lakers and Suns with admittedly good and younger collections of talent than the teams listed above, with no player having a big season yet.
But that Suns team is going to add a big lotto pick and get older. We're just getting older. I'm not thrilled about that.
In all honesty, I don't know where the Lakers are going even if/when Russell breaks out in a year or so, or even the second half of this season. |
I don't think their futures are Rosser, just because they may add some guys. I think basketball is a team sport, and getting hung up on individual stuff gets in the way. I think the Lakers have a roster and system that is closed to playoff contention. I think they already have a breakout player, it just doesn't look like it because his impact, like his visuals, is not right there in your face, but it is matching historic greats at his age. I think Ingram is going to be an offensive Swiss army knife and a defensive monster, and Randle is starting to show his array of skills. Nance is a great glue piece, and they have some nice vets around them. _________________ “We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel |
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justsomelakerfan Franchise Player
Joined: 16 Jul 2016 Posts: 10939
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Posted: Mon Dec 26, 2016 12:24 pm Post subject: |
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Mike@LG wrote: | justsomelakerfan wrote: | Omar Little wrote: | justsomelakerfan wrote: | They're... Where they should be, mostly.
What's slightly concerning is that Suns and Lakers are the only two teams currently without a big breakout young player. Plenty of time for that to change within the next year or two.
However, on draft night, without a lotto pick, I'd say the Lakers fall behind every youth movement. |
Which ones? The ones that are worse teams than the Lakers right now with their breakout players? Or the ones that are stalled at middle? |
Wolves and Philly have worse records, so the Lakers are in better shape in today's date... But their future outlook looks rosier which factors into my answer. Wolves have three breakout young players at this current point in time. Philly has one in Embiid, can't say a thing about Simmons yet.
That leaves the Lakers and Suns with admittedly good and younger collections of talent than the teams listed above, with no player having a big season yet.
But that Suns team is going to add a big lotto pick and get older. We're just getting older. I'm not thrilled about that.
In all honesty, I don't know where the Lakers are going even if/when Russell breaks out in a year or so, or even the second half of this season. |
The Wolves make me happy that Thibs isn't a Laker coach. Dude has great 2nd tier scoring types in Wiggins, LaVine, and Towns, but can't generate wins. That's not progress. |
For sure. I'm not a huge Thibs fan, although I think it's admirable he got those Bulls teams to fight hard after Rose went down. That team has some problems. I guess at the end of the day, I'm a bigger believer in talent over construct. So that's why I like what the Wolves have despite their big mess and probable coaching mismatch.
I read a quote a couple weeks ago by a reporter who said the roster is playing more out of fear of making a mistake than anything. Glad we have Luke. _________________ Austin Reaves
Tweeter: @sarah_dotbiz |
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ringfinger Retired Number
Joined: 08 Oct 2013 Posts: 29418
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Posted: Mon Dec 26, 2016 12:30 pm Post subject: |
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Slightly behind.
Most of our young players could be playing much better at this stage.
Can't tell if it's Luke holding them back or not. |
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justsomelakerfan Franchise Player
Joined: 16 Jul 2016 Posts: 10939
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Posted: Mon Dec 26, 2016 12:30 pm Post subject: |
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Omar Little wrote: | justsomelakerfan wrote: | Omar Little wrote: | justsomelakerfan wrote: | They're... Where they should be, mostly.
What's slightly concerning is that Suns and Lakers are the only two teams currently without a big breakout young player. Plenty of time for that to change within the next year or two.
However, on draft night, without a lotto pick, I'd say the Lakers fall behind every youth movement. |
Which ones? The ones that are worse teams than the Lakers right now with their breakout players? Or the ones that are stalled at middle? |
Wolves and Philly have worse records, so the Lakers are in better shape in today's date... But their future outlook looks rosier which factors into my answer. Wolves have three breakout young players at this current point in time. Philly has one in Embiid, can't say a thing about Simmons yet.
That leaves the Lakers and Suns with admittedly good and younger collections of talent than the teams listed above, with no player having a big season yet.
But that Suns team is going to add a big lotto pick and get older. We're just getting older. I'm not thrilled about that.
In all honesty, I don't know where the Lakers are going even if/when Russell breaks out in a year or so, or even the second half of this season. |
I don't think their futures are Rosser, just because they may add some guys. I think basketball is a team sport, and getting hung up on individual stuff gets in the way. I think the Lakers have a roster and system that is closed to playoff contention. I think they already have a breakout player, it just doesn't look like it because his impact, like his visuals, is not right there in your face, but it is matching historic greats at his age. I think Ingram is going to be an offensive Swiss army knife and a defensive monster, and Randle is starting to show his array of skills. Nance is a great glue piece, and they have some nice vets around them. |
I agree with everything you're saying, but it doesn't change my position on the Lakers down the road. But, Russell's having a great season given his minutes and role, no question, yet, I also wouldn't say he's tearing it up like some of the breakout players this year, you know?
Maybe it's my Hinkie fandom talking, and I'm all hung up on assets. I would actually go from slightly nervous to thrilled with where the Lakers are at if they had a 1st round pick this draft. I would feel great about the future. The league hinges on drafting talent now, and I just don't want to see the team fall behind.
I'd say the team is ahead of schedule if I'm only considering this season compared to last though. _________________ Austin Reaves
Tweeter: @sarah_dotbiz |
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deal Franchise Player
Joined: 17 Aug 2008 Posts: 14900 Location: Earth
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Posted: Mon Dec 26, 2016 12:35 pm Post subject: |
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venturalakersfan wrote: | I consider the "schedule" to be improving, and they are doing that. So now, they aren't ahead of that schedule, but they are achieving it. |
This _________________ Lakers need to build a freaking team ! |
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Omar Little Moderator
Joined: 02 May 2005 Posts: 90299 Location: Formerly Known As 24
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Posted: Mon Dec 26, 2016 12:42 pm Post subject: |
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I understand the allure of assets, but there's a reason teams that collect assets keep collecting assets. And personally, while big numbers are what constitute breakout, I'm looking at impact. Walton put Dlo with a unit that has some spacing and second creator issues (putting his better unit on the bench), and yet he's putting up around 7 points per 100 possessions better jet rating than the team does without him on the floor. That's pretty big impact for a guy his age. Porzingis is a plus five net, and he's playing on a vet starting unit with two creators. Towns is actually a net negative, gaudy numbers aside. Dlo is having a similar impact to AD in new Orleans. _________________ “We must always take sides. Neutrality helps the oppressor, never the victim. Silence encourages the tormentor, never the tormented.” ― Elie Wiesel |
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venturalakersfan Retired Number
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144432 Location: The Gold Coast
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Posted: Mon Dec 26, 2016 12:55 pm Post subject: |
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I am all for acquiring assets, just not at the expense of actually improving. We have vets we could possibly trade for future assets, but would that make us better in the long run? Is it better to lose more now and hope that things change, or win more now and let the players you have know what it takes to do so? The last thing I care about is another lottery pick, they don't make teams winners. The Wolves are a young team with some nice parts that haven't figured out how to play with each other. Towns will be a good one, Wiggins will be ok, Lavine lacks the IQ to be a great player. We have seen how putting up big numbers on a bad team doesn't necessarily translate to putting up big numbers on a better team. What is impressive is that analytics points toward our young players existing well together as a unit. That is where we are progressing and where we should be able to continue to grow. _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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Chronicle Retired Number
Joined: 21 Jul 2012 Posts: 31930 Location: Manhattan
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Posted: Mon Dec 26, 2016 12:56 pm Post subject: |
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Jury is still out
and that's the weird part. Usually 20 games into a season you can tell where a team is. but with this laker squad, we're 30 games in and we still don't know _________________ Kobe |
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ringfinger Retired Number
Joined: 08 Oct 2013 Posts: 29418
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Posted: Mon Dec 26, 2016 1:05 pm Post subject: |
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How can we be ahead of schedule when few of the young guys are not playing much better than they did under the parking brake?
Randles rebounds are down, JC/DLo shooting is down, Ingram's shooting seems suspect. |
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Mike@LG Moderator
Joined: 10 Apr 2001 Posts: 65135 Location: Orange County, CA
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Posted: Mon Dec 26, 2016 1:06 pm Post subject: |
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Chronicle wrote: | Jury is still out
and that's the weird part. Usually 20 games into a season you can tell where a team is. but with this laker squad, we're 30 games in and we still don't know |
At least this time you can say, it's a young team in dire need of consistent defensive effort and a closer.
Last year, it was a mess.
A month ago, prior to injuries, we were a 2nd half defensive team to get wins. _________________ Resident Car Nut.
https://lakersdraft.substack.com/
I am not an economic advisor nor do I advise economic strategies or plans. |
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Mike@LG Moderator
Joined: 10 Apr 2001 Posts: 65135 Location: Orange County, CA
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Posted: Mon Dec 26, 2016 1:07 pm Post subject: |
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ringfinger wrote: | How can we be ahead of schedule when few of the young guys are not playing much better than they did under the parking brake?
Randles rebounds are down, JC/DLo shooting is down, Ingram's shooting seems suspect. |
Yet the wins are up. Why?
Randle's playmaking is up. Young's shooting and defense is up. DLO's playmaking is up (won't always show as direct assists). Ingram's defense and assist rate are above the norm. _________________ Resident Car Nut.
https://lakersdraft.substack.com/
I am not an economic advisor nor do I advise economic strategies or plans. |
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Inspector Gadget Retired Number
Joined: 18 Apr 2016 Posts: 46492
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Posted: Mon Dec 26, 2016 1:12 pm Post subject: |
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Mike@LG wrote: | ringfinger wrote: | How can we be ahead of schedule when few of the young guys are not playing much better than they did under the parking brake?
Randles rebounds are down, JC/DLo shooting is down, Ingram's shooting seems suspect. |
Yet the wins are up. Why?
Randle's playmaking is up. Young's shooting and defense is up. DLO's playmaking is up (won't always show as direct assists). Ingram's defense and assist rate are above the norm. |
And also Moz being a upgrade over Hibbert. |
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ringfinger Retired Number
Joined: 08 Oct 2013 Posts: 29418
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Posted: Mon Dec 26, 2016 1:19 pm Post subject: |
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Mike@LG wrote: | ringfinger wrote: | How can we be ahead of schedule when few of the young guys are not playing much better than they did under the parking brake?
Randles rebounds are down, JC/DLo shooting is down, Ingram's shooting seems suspect. |
Yet the wins are up. Why?
Randle's playmaking is up. Young's shooting and defense is up. DLO's playmaking is up (won't always show as direct assists). Ingram's defense and assist rate are above the norm. |
Wins are up slightly because Lou and Nick and excelling in Luke's offense.
We are still dead last in defense.
I'm not saying there aren't positives or that the season is a disasters. I'm saying overall, the collective dvelopment of the young core is ahead of schedule? We weren't expecting that they could be a little better? |
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justsomelakerfan Franchise Player
Joined: 16 Jul 2016 Posts: 10939
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Posted: Mon Dec 26, 2016 1:33 pm Post subject: |
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Omar Little wrote: | I understand the allure of assets, but there's a reason teams that collect assets keep collecting assets. And personally, while big numbers are what constitute breakout, I'm looking at impact. Walton put Dlo with a unit that has some spacing and second creator issues (putting his better unit on the bench), and yet he's putting up around 7 points per 100 possessions better jet rating than the team does without him on the floor. That's pretty big impact for a guy his age. Porzingis is a plus five net, and he's playing on a vet starting unit with two creators. Towns is actually a net negative, gaudy numbers aside. Dlo is having a similar impact to AD in new Orleans. |
Spot on with D'Angelo. I do wish that his impact was more tangible, but really he's the glue keeping the team together and competitive. I feel really strongly about him breaking out in a year or two, having his first big season. I'm iffy on Randle and even Ingram becoming stars, but being iffy goes both ways. I still think they can do it.
I don't think that it's ever a bad idea to be on the lookout for ways to acquire picks. If we're not close to the playoffs by the deadline, I think the FO should go in that direction. Keep Nick as a (lol) vet presence, but figure out what to do with our overlapping talent in JC and Lou and sell high on it. Preferably Lou. I don't think this is Mitch or Luke's mindset on the team's improvement, which I understand... But that has to pay off in a larger way than missing out on a mid/later 1st or that guy in Philly who has a 25 page thread on here. They have to be right about that. _________________ Austin Reaves
Tweeter: @sarah_dotbiz |
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