Fam, we gotta talk. Our young core might not be as good as we all hoped
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Fruscas
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 30, 2016 11:22 am    Post subject: Fam, we gotta talk. Our young core might not be as good as we all hoped

the results are there to see, randle, dlo and Ingram can be very solid nba players and i believe they will but none of them strike me as a potential star.

Randle, cause of his physical limitations, DLO cant seem to shoot at a decent percentage, turns the ball over way too much and is a limited athlete, not too fast nor explosive.

Ingram has a crazy wingspan but was supposed to be a knock down shooter and now he is like the worst shooter in the league by percentage, also, has physical limitations, a bit slow, too skinny and not very good lateral movement.

None of these guys looks like a sure all star in the league right now. If none of them turns a corner until 2018 all star game - at the lalest, i suggest we should look real hard at making some deals for stars.

It pains me to say that but i've seen enough, i dont think this guys have it in them to be stars, although i really hope they shut my mouth with their play in 2017.

Let's see, but im kinda worried.

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PostPosted: Fri Dec 30, 2016 11:23 am    Post subject:

yep, i've been saying this since start of the season. outside of Ingram (jury still out on him), DLO, Randle, JC, Nance Jr none of these are someone you can build around. they have not improved their games at all.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 30, 2016 11:24 am    Post subject:

They are ok players, role players. There are no superstars among them. And that is very sad.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 30, 2016 11:26 am    Post subject:

I agree, one or two years in none are great players. If only they could play for 5-6 seasons maybe things would be different, but I guess that is asking for too much. We have to decide now.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 30, 2016 11:30 am    Post subject:

How can you project guys in their 1st and 2nd years? JC I can understand the sentiment that he is what he is as he will turn 25 next year. But the others? Too soon.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 30, 2016 11:32 am    Post subject:

First off, making this call after their worst loss of the season wouldn't be the most level headed decision. We sure didn't feel this way when we were 10-10. Let's try to find a healthy medium somewhere.

That being said, I think we probably have a star in Russell at some point. But we don't have a sure superstar and the only way to get one in this new market is to keep drafting. We can gut our roster and trade for one, but where does that really get us if we gut ourselves? Even worse, we don't have the picks to keep drafting. If the front office really committed to a rebuild properly, I think we'd look at our future much differently because we'd have picks back.

Also Harden did not look like a superstar his first couple seasons, and players can break out like that at any moment. So you can never say for sure... You have to keep playing them and figure it out.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 30, 2016 11:32 am    Post subject:

Hey look. It's someone else who only shows up at times like this ^_^
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 30, 2016 11:39 am    Post subject:

I guess today is make a thread day
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BigGameHames
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 30, 2016 11:44 am    Post subject:

I don't understand how some fans can be so incredibly impatient. It's less than halfway into a season where we are implementing an offense completely different than these kids have ever run. It's pretty complex on top of that. Give them some more time before we jump to conclusions.

20 games into the year they were playing like a playoff team. Since they've gotten most of the guys back they have started to look more like that team than the team that lost 11 of 12. I missed the game last night so maybe it was a disaster but I just don't get it. We won on Christmas then lost a tough game to a Jazz team that will be in the playoffs. Those are what you expect from a young team. They are competing but don't know how to finish games yet. It's expectable.
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Fruscas
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 30, 2016 12:16 pm    Post subject:

MJST wrote:
Hey look. It's someone else who only shows up at times like this ^_^


i dont think that's fair to say, and im not saying they suck or anything, it's just that it might be a very real possibility, so, what do the Lakers do if that's the case?

Also, i've advocated patience still, i wrote about thinking about trading some of them in a year and a half if there's no real and tangible improvement
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Fruscas
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 30, 2016 12:17 pm    Post subject:

BigGameHames wrote:
I don't understand how some fans can be so incredibly impatient. It's less than halfway into a season where we are implementing an offense completely different than these kids have ever run. It's pretty complex on top of that. Give them some more time before we jump to conclusions.

20 games into the year they were playing like a playoff team. Since they've gotten most of the guys back they have started to look more like that team than the team that lost 11 of 12. I missed the game last night so maybe it was a disaster but I just don't get it. We won on Christmas then lost a tough game to a Jazz team that will be in the playoffs. Those are what you expect from a young team. They are competing but don't know how to finish games yet. It's expectable.


it's more about the individual play than as a team, although there are clear problems that they face as a team - most notably defense but also shooting percentage (talking about the young guys)
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 30, 2016 12:24 pm    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
How can you project guys in their 1st and 2nd years? JC I can understand the sentiment that he is what he is as he will turn 25 next year. But the others? Too soon.


exactly. And not all great prospects are made the same! some need 4 years to to be reallly good, while others only need 2. We have former category not the latter. I don't get why that's an impossible concept to fathom, like, are you kidding me.
Is it a sure thing that our guys will manifest into the successful version of the long term prospect archetype, no, and this archetype is naturally less of a sure thing.
It's not even a cynical impatience so much as it is an indicting lack of perspective, from these fans.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 30, 2016 12:37 pm    Post subject: Re: Fam, we gotta talk. Our young core might not be as good as we all hoped

Fruscas wrote:
the results are there to see, randle, dlo and Ingram can be very solid nba players and i believe they will but none of them strike me as a potential star.

Randle, cause of his physical limitations, DLO cant seem to shoot at a decent percentage, turns the ball over way too much and is a limited athlete, not too fast nor explosive.

Ingram has a crazy wingspan but was supposed to be a knock down shooter and now he is like the worst shooter in the league by percentage, also, has physical limitations, a bit slow, too skinny and not very good lateral movement.

None of these guys looks like a sure all star in the league right now. If none of them turns a corner until 2018 all star game - at the lalest, i suggest we should look real hard at making some deals for stars.

It pains me to say that but i've seen enough, i dont think this guys have it in them to be stars, although i really hope they shut my mouth with their play in 2017.

Let's see, but im kinda worried.

Opinions?


So according to you our players are not stars, yet we can somehow trade them for stars? How does that work?
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 30, 2016 12:38 pm    Post subject:

I don't think the young players are to blame.

Despite the young players not showing significant growth you can tell the small Improvements they made.

Clarkson giving effort on D
Randles shot looks better
Russell's playmaking is looking better
Ingram despite being a rookie plays great D and has PG skills.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 30, 2016 12:41 pm    Post subject:

Julius is an amazing athlete for his size. He has guard quickness.

DLO is an excellent shooter for his age. Obviously the injury affected his rhythm.

Ingram is a baby and a late bloomer at that. I love his game and think he is special.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 30, 2016 12:47 pm    Post subject: Re: Fam, we gotta talk. Our young core might not be as good as we all hoped

Dr. Funkbot wrote:
Fruscas wrote:
the results are there to see, randle, dlo and Ingram can be very solid nba players and i believe they will but none of them strike me as a potential star.

Randle, cause of his physical limitations, DLO cant seem to shoot at a decent percentage, turns the ball over way too much and is a limited athlete, not too fast nor explosive.

Ingram has a crazy wingspan but was supposed to be a knock down shooter and now he is like the worst shooter in the league by percentage, also, has physical limitations, a bit slow, too skinny and not very good lateral movement.

None of these guys looks like a sure all star in the league right now. If none of them turns a corner until 2018 all star game - at the lalest, i suggest we should look real hard at making some deals for stars.

It pains me to say that but i've seen enough, i dont think this guys have it in them to be stars, although i really hope they shut my mouth with their play in 2017.

Let's see, but im kinda worried.

Opinions?


So according to you our players are not stars, yet we can somehow trade them for stars? How does that work?


This cracks me up hard whenever people want to trade our young guys

"They all suck! We got the wrong guys!"

"Let's trade them for a star!"

Lol with what trade value? Can't have it both ways
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 30, 2016 1:10 pm    Post subject:

KeepItRealOrElse wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
How can you project guys in their 1st and 2nd years? JC I can understand the sentiment that he is what he is as he will turn 25 next year. But the others? Too soon.


exactly. And not all great prospects are made the same! some need 4 years to to be reallly good, while others only need 2. We have former category not the latter. I don't get why that's an impossible concept to fathom, like, are you kidding me.
Is it a sure thing that our guys will manifest into the successful version of the long term prospect archetype, no, and this archetype is naturally less of a sure thing.
It's not even a cynical impatience so much as it is an indicting lack of perspective, from these fans.


I would say 4 years is the exception and not the rule. It's rare that you need to wait 4 years for a player to show real, legitimate promise.

Usually you can see that in the first 1-3 years.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 30, 2016 1:26 pm    Post subject:

ringfinger wrote:
KeepItRealOrElse wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
How can you project guys in their 1st and 2nd years? JC I can understand the sentiment that he is what he is as he will turn 25 next year. But the others? Too soon.


exactly. And not all great prospects are made the same! some need 4 years to to be reallly good, while others only need 2. We have former category not the latter. I don't get why that's an impossible concept to fathom, like, are you kidding me.
Is it a sure thing that our guys will manifest into the successful version of the long term prospect archetype, no, and this archetype is naturally less of a sure thing.
It's not even a cynical impatience so much as it is an indicting lack of perspective, from these fans.


I would say 4 years is the exception and not the rule. It's rare that you need to wait 4 years for a player to show real, legitimate promise.

Usually you can see that in the first 1-3 years.


you may be right, truly I think Russell will have a great year next year. Building from his start to this season.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 30, 2016 1:38 pm    Post subject:

I've seen enough great flashes from Randle and JC to make me believe they can be all stars within the right system. Both are great athletes, skilled, and have a good work ethic. Nance is also a great athlete.

Ingram and Russell have physical limitations as well as not being aggressive players that's preventing them from becoming all star players. I'm very confident about Clarkson, Randle, and Nance. Not so much with the other two.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 30, 2016 2:00 pm    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
I agree, one or two years in none are great players. If only they could play for 5-6 seasons maybe things would be different, but I guess that is asking for too much. We have to decide now.


100% agree. Most are expecting these guys to be super stars in year one or two. Not to often does that happen. There has been way to many advanced scouts on LG. none of you have a clue what these players will be. Sure we all see the potential. News flash get use to what you see for now. When they do flourish it most likely will not be until year 4-6. At that time this board will blow up with statements like:

We have to many stars, its Jim or Mitch's fault trade them.

My favorite is "we have TOO MUCH TALENT??"

The critiquing of these players so early is just plain dumb. I've said before, Laker fans you better look up the definition of patience because you're going to need for the next few seasons.

I'm not worries nor am I impatient because we have the right coach, clearly the team has shown improvement since last season. That's all you ask for at this point.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 30, 2016 2:03 pm    Post subject:

It's dumbfounding how impatient some of you guys are.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 30, 2016 2:19 pm    Post subject:

Dave20 wrote:
I've seen enough great flashes from Randle and JC to make me believe they can be all stars within the right system. Both are great athletes, skilled, and have a good work ethic. Nance is also a great athlete.

Ingram and Russell have physical limitations as well as not being aggressive players that's preventing them from becoming all star players. I'm very confident about Clarkson, Randle, and Nance. Not so much with the other two.


Lol. Meanwhile most teams consider Dlo/Ingram the biggest building blocks and potential stars while the guys you named have less of a ceiling.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 30, 2016 2:27 pm    Post subject:

Everyone was giddy about the young core when fact is, it's not that good and our GM spent a 170 million dollars on two stiff veterans, one a backup center another a washed up small forward who has lost his legs.

No end in sight to this rebuild barring hitting a home run in FA (good luck), getting a star in the draft (good luck even keeping the pick this year and 2019), or a team handing us a star for 50 cents on the dollar (good luck). Ingram has time to grow a body, but Russell isn't athletic enough or quick enough to be an elite PG, Randle is too small, and Clarkson just isn't that good. Zubac is a project and Nance is a role player. Not saying these guys won't be decent players, just don't see a face of the franchise type. That sucks when you've had back to back number 2 picks and a 7th pick before that.

Welcome to Clipper Nation, 1987. Reality sucks.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 30, 2016 2:40 pm    Post subject:

Fruscas wrote:
BigGameHames wrote:
I don't understand how some fans can be so incredibly impatient. It's less than halfway into a season where we are implementing an offense completely different than these kids have ever run. It's pretty complex on top of that. Give them some more time before we jump to conclusions.

20 games into the year they were playing like a playoff team. Since they've gotten most of the guys back they have started to look more like that team than the team that lost 11 of 12. I missed the game last night so maybe it was a disaster but I just don't get it. We won on Christmas then lost a tough game to a Jazz team that will be in the playoffs. Those are what you expect from a young team. They are competing but don't know how to finish games yet. It's expectable.


it's more about the individual play than as a team, although there are clear problems that they face as a team - most notably defense but also shooting percentage (talking about the young guys)


I think you're looking more at the box score than individual play. Russell has a bigger individual effect on the team than anybody else. Randle and Nance are both in the top 5 in that respect as well. They may not have great stats but those 3 young guys help the team a ton. Clarkson fills a role any team can use as well. They've all already shown a minimum capability of being a contributor to a good team. I don't think it's fair to say none of them will be stars even though they are already valuable pieces of a team as 20/21/23 year old players.
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PostPosted: Fri Dec 30, 2016 2:42 pm    Post subject:

lakers4life78 wrote:
Everyone was giddy about the young core when fact is, it's not that good and our GM spent a 170 million dollars on two stiff veterans, one a backup center another a washed up small forward who has lost his legs.

No end in sight to this rebuild barring hitting a home run in FA (good luck), getting a star in the draft (good luck even keeping the pick this year and 2019), or a team handing us a star for 50 cents on the dollar (good luck). Ingram has time to grow a body, but Russell isn't athletic enough or quick enough to be an elite PG, Randle is too small, and Clarkson just isn't that good. Zubac is a project and Nance is a role player. Not saying these guys won't be decent players, just don't see a face of the franchise type. That sucks when you've had back to back number 2 picks and a 7th pick before that.

Welcome to Clipper Nation, 1987. Reality sucks.


Well have to remember the last few drafts was not that deep.
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