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Robster8989
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Joined: 30 Dec 2014
Posts: 1025
Location: San Diego
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 Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2016 2:43 pm Post subject: |
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| Dave20 wrote: | I've seen enough great flashes from Randle and JC to make me believe they can be all stars within the right system. Both are great athletes, skilled, and have a good work ethic. Nance is also a great athlete.
Ingram and Russell have physical limitations as well as not being aggressive players that's preventing them from becoming all star players. I'm very confident about Clarkson, Randle, and Nance. Not so much with the other two. |
Funny, I have completely different opinions than you on this.
I'm not saying you're wrong, just that my opinions differ.
To me, DLO is still the guy I think can be special. He still has a long way to go, but he had a solid rookie year (showed flashes of what he can become IMO) and was playing well until the injury. I think it will take him time to get back into rhythm, but he's still the guy on this team I would bet on to become an all star caliber player.
Ingram is obviously struggling, but I still see the potential for a really good, all around player there. Kid is the same age as most freshmen in college right now, and he's going up against the likes of LBJ/PG etc. Struggles are to be expected.
I love JC, but to me, he is what he is... a potential excellent 3rd guard in a 3 guard rotation. We just need the right players with him. To me, DLO is one of those, and a guy like Jimmy Butler would be an ideal running mate, and JC would be a GREAT 3rd guard, but I don't see him as an all star, just a really good 6th man type (and I'm not belittling how important he can be, just that I don't see him as a perennial all star.)
I like JR, but I do see limitations there as well. I like his game, and can live with his limitations, my concern is the contract situation. He may very well seek max money in 1 1/2 years, and my concern is that he won't be worth it, but we may little choice than to overpay to keep him (though I think he can continue to improve). If he was willing to take a JC type contract, I think he's be a potential bargain.
I LOVE Nance, but again, to me, he is a great role player, and there's nothing wrong with that, we need that, and with his salary, he's a keeper to me, but not likely a "star" player.
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Ujah's Goat
Star Player
Joined: 01 Jun 2016
Posts: 1417
Location: Babylon
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| Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2016 6:51 pm Post subject: Re: Fam, we gotta talk. Our young core might not be as good as we all hoped |
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| justsomelakerfan wrote: | | Dr. Funkbot wrote: | | Fruscas wrote: | the results are there to see, randle, dlo and Ingram can be very solid nba players and i believe they will but none of them strike me as a potential star.
Randle, cause of his physical limitations, DLO cant seem to shoot at a decent percentage, turns the ball over way too much and is a limited athlete, not too fast nor explosive.
Ingram has a crazy wingspan but was supposed to be a knock down shooter and now he is like the worst shooter in the league by percentage, also, has physical limitations, a bit slow, too skinny and not very good lateral movement.
None of these guys looks like a sure all star in the league right now. If none of them turns a corner until 2018 all star game - at the lalest, i suggest we should look real hard at making some deals for stars.
It pains me to say that but i've seen enough, i dont think this guys have it in them to be stars, although i really hope they shut my mouth with their play in 2017.
Let's see, but im kinda worried.
Opinions? |
So according to you our players are not stars, yet we can somehow trade them for stars? How does that work? |
This cracks me up hard whenever people want to trade our young guys
"They all suck! We got the wrong guys!"
"Let's trade them for a star!"
Lol with what trade value? Can't have it both ways |
For the life of me, I simply can't understand why I see this logic constantly floated around LG. Young players that are lotto picks have tremendous trade value, which is why they can be moved for star players & players with talent. Issue is not the movability of our young players: it's the asking price of the other teams.
You're cracking up at posters who are open to trading our young players and I'm cracking up at you  |
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HOF Rookie
Star Player
Joined: 09 Jun 2015
Posts: 1717
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| Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2016 7:00 pm Post subject: |
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| lakers4life78 wrote: | Everyone was giddy about the young core when fact is, it's not that good and our GM spent a 170 million dollars on two stiff veterans, one a backup center another a washed up small forward who has lost his legs.
No end in sight to this rebuild barring hitting a home run in FA (good luck), getting a star in the draft (good luck even keeping the pick this year and 2019), or a team handing us a star for 50 cents on the dollar (good luck). Ingram has time to grow a body, but Russell isn't athletic enough or quick enough to be an elite PG, Randle is too small, and Clarkson just isn't that good. Zubac is a project and Nance is a role player. Not saying these guys won't be decent players, just don't see a face of the franchise type. That sucks when you've had back to back number 2 picks and a 7th pick before that.
Welcome to Clipper Nation, 1987. Reality sucks. |
Didn't we spend 64M on moz and 72M on deng? Where did the other $36M come from? |
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justsomelakerfan
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Joined: 16 Jul 2016
Posts: 10939
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| Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2016 7:01 pm Post subject: |
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No, UG, what I find amusing is that fans call the team's talent garbage, but if they're garbage, then, well, why would another team want them?
If they have value, then it follows that they're not garbage. It's not like Noah Vonleh had a ton of trade value after an underwhelming first season. But he's a young talent, right? Either way, he still had to earn his own value.
Propose all the trades you want. Let's just start evaluating our players correctly and remove how butt hurt we are about how the Mavs blew us ans that we suck right now.
If you've seen my post history on here, I don't have problems with trades and I'm not exactly married to our young guys. But if we can start speaking about them realistically, that's a much better start.
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55
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| Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2016 7:07 pm Post subject: |
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| Dave20 wrote: | I've seen enough great flashes from Randle and JC to make me believe they can be all stars within the right system. Both are great athletes, skilled, and have a good work ethic. Nance is also a great athlete.
Ingram and Russell have physical limitations as well as not being aggressive players that's preventing them from becoming all star players. I'm very confident about Clarkson, Randle, and Nance. Not so much with the other two. |
Dave, come on my man. JC is a nice player but in no system would he be an All Star. I'd be surprised if Randle ever reaches that level as well. |
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Ujah's Goat
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Joined: 01 Jun 2016
Posts: 1417
Location: Babylon
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| Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2016 7:56 pm Post subject: |
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| justsomelakerfan wrote: | No, UG, what I find amusing is that fans call the team's talent garbage, but if they're garbage, then, well, why would another team want them?
If they have value, then it follows that they're not garbage. It's not like Noah Vonleh had a ton of trade value after an underwhelming first season. But he's a young talent, right? Either way, he still had to earn his own value.
Propose all the trades you want. Let's just start evaluating our players correctly and remove how butt hurt we are about how the Mavs blew us ans that we suck right now.
If you've seen my post history on here, I don't have problems with trades and I'm not exactly married to our young guys. But if we can start speaking about them realistically, that's a much better start. |
Agree that we should speak realistically on the young players and the team. Posters who think that our young players suck are not patient enough to watch them develop since it's hard to see the end product (all of them are seemingly late bloomers). Realistically, as is they do all suck and are the main characters in a lotto team. Also realistically, their current output is not indicative of their trade value.
I have read your posts and I appreciate them  |
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Mike@LG
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Joined: 10 Apr 2001
Posts: 65135
Location: Orange County, CA
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| Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2016 8:01 pm Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | How can you project guys in their 1st and 2nd years? JC I can understand the sentiment that he is what he is as he will turn 25 next year. But the others? Too soon. |
Methinks some see the grass is greener with Porzingis and Towns, but usually there's 2-4 All-Stars per draft and some players take longer to develop than others.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2007_NBA_draft#Draft
It's like, if you look at draft, you knew that Durant would be an All-Star.
Did you know Horford, Noah, Conley would be that way early on? Anyone who thought they did, only felt good about their potential.
The Lakers basically have 3-4 guys of that All-Star potential mode, even if fans don't see it right away. It's certainly possible, and optimistic, but I understand when people want instant gratification.
Thing is, this season is so much better than last season, but people are already demanding more.
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Mike@LG
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Location: Orange County, CA
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| Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2016 8:02 pm Post subject: |
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| 55 wrote: | | Dave20 wrote: | I've seen enough great flashes from Randle and JC to make me believe they can be all stars within the right system. Both are great athletes, skilled, and have a good work ethic. Nance is also a great athlete.
Ingram and Russell have physical limitations as well as not being aggressive players that's preventing them from becoming all star players. I'm very confident about Clarkson, Randle, and Nance. Not so much with the other two. |
Dave, come on my man. JC is a nice player but in no system would he be an All Star. I'd be surprised if Randle ever reaches that level as well. |
They're in a GSW system. Seriously, how much easier is it going to get?
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LakerSD
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Joined: 10 Nov 2016
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| Posted: Fri Dec 30, 2016 11:46 pm Post subject: |
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I am torn on this subject. Ingram shows flashes but I would be lying if I said I believed in randle or Russell. Julius works hard but something is just off don't know. Russell is very frustrating and I'm not sure if he will ever be a trustworthy player.
Part of me wants to give this a chance and hopefully it works out but part of me says maybe move these guys in the right deal. Ingram is the only one that shows some flashes of maybe being a star to be honest. |
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SuperboyReformed
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Joined: 07 Oct 2012
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| Posted: Sat Dec 31, 2016 12:44 am Post subject: |
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lg...im sure by march we'll be seeing headlines like:
Can Dlo win Most Improved?
CLarkson > Westbrick!
i have absolutely zero faith that you guys here can sustain this doom and gloom for longer than two months. |
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J.C. Smith
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Joined: 23 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Sat Dec 31, 2016 12:56 am Post subject: Re: Fam, we gotta talk. Our young core might not be as good as we all hoped |
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Trying to judge these young players in their first 1-2 (or 3 in Clarkson's case) years in the league is akin to judging a child's mental or athletic potential when they are 1-2 years old. Some guys start fast and then never improve (Evans, Jennings), others peak late (Nash, Wallace, Leonard), while most show a steady progression over the years.
There are promising things from all of our young players. And annoying issues they need to work their way through. The Lakers are playing equal opportunity offense, with five players averaging between 10.6 and 13.1 shots per game but nobody averaging more than that. Contrast that to the Wolves for example, all three of their young studs are getting between 16.1 and 17.8 shots with nobody else on the team averaging more than 8.4. The Lakers don't have a single player on the team hitting 29 minutes per game. Each of the Wolves top young players is playing 35.2+ with Djieng and Rubio playing 31-33 minutes. |
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Shaber
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| Posted: Sat Dec 31, 2016 1:25 am Post subject: |
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Sure the expectations at LG are so high that no one can match them.
But it does not hurt to see obvious areas of improvement for each of our young core.
Ingram needs to grow and get stronger. And not hesitate to take a responsibility and shoot it when he can and is expected to. The latter is going to be a make or break for him. If (when?) he gains the confidence, we'll have a wonderful two-way player.
JC needs to read the game better. Amazing athlete, decent shooter, but his passing decisions need improvement. I like that he is working on his D and HE KNOWS that he must improve there. Now, let's get it done.
Randle needs to get his head straight. Primarily on D. He has shown some stints that he can play good D, but most of the time he plays lackadaisical and is lost. He also could be one of the best rebounders in the league. But this also needs a dedication that I do not see yet. Offensively he is already a threat and with time will only be stronger.
DLO is hardest for me to crack. I think he is on his way to a great player, but there is something there that hinders him. Maybe it was the injury.. IDK. Something does not click while still the potential is great.
Nance runs on his energy and since he always brings it, he will be an excellent role player. Too hesitant to shoot the ball. Hopefully this will come with experience. If only his health will hold up.
So, back to the original question - the potential is still there. The players can be as good as we hope(d). But they have not made it yet. Maybe next season?
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Andre2K
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| Posted: Sat Dec 31, 2016 8:40 am Post subject: |
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Lol at people being down on Ingram. He along with Russell have the best chance at being all stars in the future. Ingram would be in the running for best player in the league in 5 years, quote me on this. Please go look at Giannis and Paul George's rookie years. Ingram is still growing, give him an off season with NBA training regimen. Next year he's going to be a lot different from what you're seeing now. Russell is just getting healthy, with more minutes he's going to start delivering again like he did earlier in the season. Patience people
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laker4life
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| Posted: Sat Dec 31, 2016 9:06 am Post subject: |
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| Still too early to judge. |
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Goldenwest
Star Player
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| Posted: Sat Dec 31, 2016 11:56 am Post subject: |
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| SuperboyReformed wrote: | lg...im sure by march we'll be seeing headlines like:
Can Dlo win Most Improved?
CLarkson > Westbrick!
i have absolutely zero faith that you guys here can sustain this doom and gloom for longer than two months. |
Yeah, its the 'Pau's done' syndrome. |
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mnstrdnk
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| Posted: Sat Dec 31, 2016 2:35 pm Post subject: |
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| Our young core definitely has talent but when things don't go their way, they break down mentally. This is one of the bad habits I see that needs to change. Championship teams try harder when they miss shots and it all starts on D. I'm really impressed with the way our new veterans have been playing D including Young and Williams; not so much with Russel and Clarkson. |
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BigGameHames
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| Posted: Sat Dec 31, 2016 2:44 pm Post subject: |
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| Andre2K wrote: | | Lol at people being down on Ingram. He along with Russell have the best chance at being all stars in the future. Ingram would be in the running for best player in the league in 5 years, quote me on this. Please go look at Giannis and Paul George's rookie years. Ingram is still growing, give him an off season with NBA training regimen. Next year he's going to be a lot different from what you're seeing now. Russell is just getting healthy, with more minutes he's going to start delivering again like he did earlier in the season. Patience people |
You think Ingram and Russell can be the top two players on a championship team in their primes? |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Sat Dec 31, 2016 2:46 pm Post subject: |
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| BigGameHames wrote: | | Andre2K wrote: | | Lol at people being down on Ingram. He along with Russell have the best chance at being all stars in the future. Ingram would be in the running for best player in the league in 5 years, quote me on this. Please go look at Giannis and Paul George's rookie years. Ingram is still growing, give him an off season with NBA training regimen. Next year he's going to be a lot different from what you're seeing now. Russell is just getting healthy, with more minutes he's going to start delivering again like he did earlier in the season. Patience people |
You think Ingram and Russell can be the top two players on a championship team in their primes? |
Will be fun watching them grow each year.
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justsomelakerfan
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Joined: 16 Jul 2016
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| Posted: Sat Dec 31, 2016 2:50 pm Post subject: |
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| Andre2K wrote: | | Lol at people being down on Ingram. He along with Russell have the best chance at being all stars in the future. Ingram would be in the running for best player in the league in 5 years, quote me on this. Please go look at Giannis and Paul George's rookie years. Ingram is still growing, give him an off season with NBA training regimen. Next year he's going to be a lot different from what you're seeing now. Russell is just getting healthy, with more minutes he's going to start delivering again like he did earlier in the season. Patience people |
I really really hope so. I am actually lower on Ingram than a lot of people on the board just because... really, what has he actually shown? I want him to be good. He has to be good given our pick situation.
He's bricking wide open jumpers and was touted as a shooter. His numbers are atrocious. I can't really think of a single highlight play. I don't know. If we had some real evidence, even flashes, of what he could become, I'd feel so much better. I intentionally set up low expectations for him given his frame, and I thought he could at least provide spot up shooting. But, even that...?
If anyone can talk me into Ingram with actual evidence on how he can be good, it would be a great way to start 2017.
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Baron Von Humongous
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| Posted: Sat Dec 31, 2016 2:56 pm Post subject: |
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| BigGameHames wrote: | | Andre2K wrote: | | Lol at people being down on Ingram. He along with Russell have the best chance at being all stars in the future. Ingram would be in the running for best player in the league in 5 years, quote me on this. Please go look at Giannis and Paul George's rookie years. Ingram is still growing, give him an off season with NBA training regimen. Next year he's going to be a lot different from what you're seeing now. Russell is just getting healthy, with more minutes he's going to start delivering again like he did earlier in the season. Patience people |
You think Ingram and Russell can be the top two players on a championship team in their primes? |
I think they can, but that's if both reach their absolute ceilings as players. I'd hedge my optimistic bet and predict one of them gets there and the other guy is a good starter/fringe All-Star. |
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BigGameHames
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| Posted: Sat Dec 31, 2016 2:59 pm Post subject: |
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| Baron Von Humongous wrote: | | BigGameHames wrote: | | Andre2K wrote: | | Lol at people being down on Ingram. He along with Russell have the best chance at being all stars in the future. Ingram would be in the running for best player in the league in 5 years, quote me on this. Please go look at Giannis and Paul George's rookie years. Ingram is still growing, give him an off season with NBA training regimen. Next year he's going to be a lot different from what you're seeing now. Russell is just getting healthy, with more minutes he's going to start delivering again like he did earlier in the season. Patience people |
You think Ingram and Russell can be the top two players on a championship team in their primes? |
I think they can, but that's if both reach their absolute ceilings as players. I'd hedge my optimistic bet and predict one of them gets there and the other guy is a good starter/fringe All-Star. |
I totally agree. I think Russell has the better chance of being a superstar while Ingram is a all NBA defender and good enough offensively to make a few all star games. |
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Jim99187
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Joined: 03 Jan 2014
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| Posted: Sat Dec 31, 2016 3:03 pm Post subject: |
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| I agree none of these guys are franchise players as of today |
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LakersNewEra
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Location: Vancouver BC
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| Posted: Sat Dec 31, 2016 3:11 pm Post subject: |
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I would venture to say that DLO and Ingram can be more than role players. I think both can average 18-20 ppg.
Randle however is someone we should trade. His playing style, lack of 3pt shot and questionable fundamentals make him a net negative IMO. Plus I do think we have a more impactful player in Nance.
So unless we are getting a superstar in return I would prefer to keep DLO and Ingram but Randle I am willing to trade. |
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tox
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| Posted: Sat Dec 31, 2016 3:14 pm Post subject: |
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Indeed they might not be. They very well might still be, though.
Patience, Lakers nation. |
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Snipes
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Posts: 6026
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| Posted: Sat Dec 31, 2016 3:16 pm Post subject: |
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I always thought Dlo/Randle/Ingram would be very special players and nothing has changed that feeling for me personally.
Also Nance has really shown me something as well. Clarkson is who he is. He never impressed me that much. He can be a great scorer..I think his max potential is Kevin Martin at 70%. |
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