Funny how quickly people's heads turn. A few months ago a guy won his 2nd straight MVP unanimously (never been done before). A few months into the new season hes barely a part of the conversation.
I wouldn't say "he's barely a part of the conversation." In this poll, and all-star voting, it's basically a three-way tie between Curry, Westbrook and Harden.
That's fair. Was responding more to the comments in the thread than the actual votes. _________________ 14-5-3-12
Joined: 10 Apr 2001 Posts: 65135 Location: Orange County, CA
Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2017 1:08 pm Post subject:
audioaxes wrote:
saetarubia wrote:
Kyrie. Dude is clutch and perfect fit for a Lebron team. If I want a superstar to carry an average team, WB.
I think if you swap Kyrie with WB where he is the only star on the team he becomes just another high scoring guard on a bad team that we've seen plenty of times over the years.
Except, I think WB on the Cavs and you don't win a championship. _________________ Resident Car Nut.
Joined: 24 Dec 2007 Posts: 35854 Location: Santa Clarita, CA (Hell) ->>>>>Ithaca, NY -≥≥≥≥≥Berkeley, CA
Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2017 1:47 pm Post subject:
Mike@LG wrote:
audioaxes wrote:
saetarubia wrote:
Kyrie. Dude is clutch and perfect fit for a Lebron team. If I want a superstar to carry an average team, WB.
I think if you swap Kyrie with WB where he is the only star on the team he becomes just another high scoring guard on a bad team that we've seen plenty of times over the years.
Except, I think WB on the Cavs and you don't win a championship.
Can you edit Harden into the poll? _________________ Damian Lillard shatters Dwight Coward's championship dreams:
Kyrie. Dude is clutch and perfect fit for a Lebron team. If I want a superstar to carry an average team, WB.
I think if you swap Kyrie with WB where he is the only star on the team he becomes just another high scoring guard on a bad team that we've seen plenty of times over the years.
Except, I think WB on the Cavs and you don't win a championship.
That doesn't make any sense. Westbrook is good enough to get to the finals with KD, and James Harden off the bench, but he can't with LeBron?
Well, obviously they get to the finals in the East last season. But you think they don't win the championship with Westbrook instead of Kyrie last year? After the Thunder already nearly beat the Warriors at full strength? _________________ A banana is killed every time a terrible thread or post is made. Save the bananas. Stop creating terrible posts!
Joined: 10 Apr 2001 Posts: 65135 Location: Orange County, CA
Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2017 5:55 pm Post subject:
USCandLakers wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
audioaxes wrote:
saetarubia wrote:
Kyrie. Dude is clutch and perfect fit for a Lebron team. If I want a superstar to carry an average team, WB.
I think if you swap Kyrie with WB where he is the only star on the team he becomes just another high scoring guard on a bad team that we've seen plenty of times over the years.
Except, I think WB on the Cavs and you don't win a championship.
That doesn't make any sense. Westbrook is good enough to get to the finals with KD, and James Harden off the bench, but he can't with LeBron?
Well, obviously they get to the finals in the East last season. But you think they don't win the championship with Westbrook instead of Kyrie last year? After the Thunder already nearly beat the Warriors at full strength?
To me it does make sense, because LeBron is more comfortable playing next to a scoring closer.
Westbrook hasn't been that guy this season and subpar 40% shooting or lower in the 4th doesn't do it. But, Kyrie in the Finals? I didn't even like the Iso play, but dude was unstoppable.
Westbrook, can be stopped. Massively turnover prone, only really consistent from 16' and in.
Kyrie, you have to do everything. And, if he's in the paint, he's an even better finisher than WB. _________________ Resident Car Nut.
Kyrie. Dude is clutch and perfect fit for a Lebron team. If I want a superstar to carry an average team, WB.
I think if you swap Kyrie with WB where he is the only star on the team he becomes just another high scoring guard on a bad team that we've seen plenty of times over the years.
Except, I think WB on the Cavs and you don't win a championship.
That doesn't make any sense. Westbrook is good enough to get to the finals with KD, and James Harden off the bench, but he can't with LeBron?
Well, obviously they get to the finals in the East last season. But you think they don't win the championship with Westbrook instead of Kyrie last year? After the Thunder already nearly beat the Warriors at full strength?
My first reaction was similar to yours, but then I gave it more thought ... knowing what we've known of LeBron and Westbrook over the course of their careers, I think Mike's probably right ... the likelihood that Westbrook might find the self-control to play within a distributive system (and then likely also subjugate himself to LeBron) is pretty low ... he would have to play off the ball for large segments of the game, he would struggle to disengage if his shot wasn't falling, and there are probably a lot of scenarios where I think he would be worse of a fit than Kyrie (with LeBron) ... the Cavaliers needed that relationship between their Top 2 players to work out really well, especially with Love and J.R. Smith unable to muster their "A" games in the 2016 Finals ... anything less would have been a series loss, IMO.
I think Westbrook is better than Kyrie right now, but I don't think his fit with the Cavaliers would be as constructive ...
Joined: 10 Apr 2001 Posts: 65135 Location: Orange County, CA
Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2017 8:09 pm Post subject:
Quote:
My first reaction was similar to yours, but then I gave it more thought ... knowing what we've known of LeBron and Westbrook over the course of their careers, I think Mike's probably right ... the likelihood that Westbrook might find the self-control to play within a distributive system (and then likely also subjugate himself to LeBron) is pretty low ... he would have to play off the ball for large segments of the game, he would struggle to disengage if his shot wasn't falling, and there are probably a lot of scenarios where I think he would be worse of a fit than Kyrie (with LeBron) ... the Cavaliers needed that relationship between their Top 2 players to work out really well, especially with Love and J.R. Smith unable to muster their "A" games in the 2016 Finals ... anything less would have been a series loss, IMO.
Yup. Basically, you want Westbrook to play LeBron's role, but Westbrook needed KD to take over 4ths and be clutch. That's what helped OKC be successful.
But to finish games? No. I love how Westbrook plays and the fire is there, but dude is playing with blind ambition leading to 5 turnovers a game and some garbage shot selection.
Even when Bryant had to carry the rebuild Lakers, he had far less talent, but he was also the closer.
I don't think of Westbrook as one.
Kyrle OTOH, tried to carry a gutter Cavs team like WB did, but wasn't so horrid with the TOs and shooting percentages. I'm not going to complain about a 2nd or 3rd year PG carrying a team average 21ppg 44%FG, 36% behind the arc, 6 assists, 4rebs, 1.5 steals..
WAIT A MINUTE... those are almost DLO's per 36....!! _________________ Resident Car Nut.
Kyrie. Dude is clutch and perfect fit for a Lebron team. If I want a superstar to carry an average team, WB.
I think if you swap Kyrie with WB where he is the only star on the team he becomes just another high scoring guard on a bad team that we've seen plenty of times over the years.
Except, I think WB on the Cavs and you don't win a championship.
That doesn't make any sense. Westbrook is good enough to get to the finals with KD, and James Harden off the bench, but he can't with LeBron?
Well, obviously they get to the finals in the East last season. But you think they don't win the championship with Westbrook instead of Kyrie last year? After the Thunder already nearly beat the Warriors at full strength?
To me it does make sense, because LeBron is more comfortable playing next to a scoring closer.
Westbrook hasn't been that guy this season and subpar 40% shooting or lower in the 4th doesn't do it. But, Kyrie in the Finals? I didn't even like the Iso play, but dude was unstoppable.
Westbrook, can be stopped. Massively turnover prone, only really consistent from 16' and in.
Kyrie, you have to do everything. And, if he's in the paint, he's an even better finisher than WB.
You're comparing Kyrie playing 2nd option to LeBron to Westbrook doing it all himself.
OKC took GS to 7 games. If KD didn't choke they would have won. How does essentially replacing KD with LeBron and playing a weaker GS team somehow equal GS winning? Did you see how LeBron played against GS vs how KD played? _________________ A banana is killed every time a terrible thread or post is made. Save the bananas. Stop creating terrible posts!
Kyrie. Dude is clutch and perfect fit for a Lebron team. If I want a superstar to carry an average team, WB.
I think if you swap Kyrie with WB where he is the only star on the team he becomes just another high scoring guard on a bad team that we've seen plenty of times over the years.
Except, I think WB on the Cavs and you don't win a championship.
That doesn't make any sense. Westbrook is good enough to get to the finals with KD, and James Harden off the bench, but he can't with LeBron?
Well, obviously they get to the finals in the East last season. But you think they don't win the championship with Westbrook instead of Kyrie last year? After the Thunder already nearly beat the Warriors at full strength?
My first reaction was similar to yours, but then I gave it more thought ... knowing what we've known of LeBron and Westbrook over the course of their careers, I think Mike's probably right ... the likelihood that Westbrook might find the self-control to play within a distributive system (and then likely also subjugate himself to LeBron) is pretty low ... he would have to play off the ball for large segments of the game, he would struggle to disengage if his shot wasn't falling, and there are probably a lot of scenarios where I think he would be worse of a fit than Kyrie (with LeBron) ... the Cavaliers needed that relationship between their Top 2 players to work out really well, especially with Love and J.R. Smith unable to muster their "A" games in the 2016 Finals ... anything less would have been a series loss, IMO.
I think Westbrook is better than Kyrie right now, but I don't think his fit with the Cavaliers would be as constructive ...
You'd have a point if LeBron didn't win 2 championships with Dwyane Wade.
And again, Westbrook and KD nearly beat GS. It makes no sense to then say, replace KD with LeBron, take Draymond out a game and Bogut out 2, and somehow GS wins. Makes no sense. _________________ A banana is killed every time a terrible thread or post is made. Save the bananas. Stop creating terrible posts!
Kyrie. Dude is clutch and perfect fit for a Lebron team. If I want a superstar to carry an average team, WB.
I think if you swap Kyrie with WB where he is the only star on the team he becomes just another high scoring guard on a bad team that we've seen plenty of times over the years.
Except, I think WB on the Cavs and you don't win a championship.
That doesn't make any sense. Westbrook is good enough to get to the finals with KD, and James Harden off the bench, but he can't with LeBron?
Well, obviously they get to the finals in the East last season. But you think they don't win the championship with Westbrook instead of Kyrie last year? After the Thunder already nearly beat the Warriors at full strength?
My first reaction was similar to yours, but then I gave it more thought ... knowing what we've known of LeBron and Westbrook over the course of their careers, I think Mike's probably right ... the likelihood that Westbrook might find the self-control to play within a distributive system (and then likely also subjugate himself to LeBron) is pretty low ... he would have to play off the ball for large segments of the game, he would struggle to disengage if his shot wasn't falling, and there are probably a lot of scenarios where I think he would be worse of a fit than Kyrie (with LeBron) ... the Cavaliers needed that relationship between their Top 2 players to work out really well, especially with Love and J.R. Smith unable to muster their "A" games in the 2016 Finals ... anything less would have been a series loss, IMO.
I think Westbrook is better than Kyrie right now, but I don't think his fit with the Cavaliers would be as constructive ...
You'd have a point if LeBron didn't win 2 championships with Dwyane Wade.
And again, Westbrook and KD nearly beat GS. It makes no sense to then say, replace KD with LeBron, take Draymond out a game and Bogut out 2, and somehow GS wins. Makes no sense.
I think you're forgetting something, as well ... the Dwyane Wade of the 2012 and 2013 seasons shares little in common with Russell Westbrook. That Dwyane Wade was perfectly - literally, PERFECTLY - content to play whatever role was needed from him to win championships. And he understood that he was playing alongside a teammate who was "the man" that franchise needed to lead them to the promised land.
That just wouldn't happen with Westbrook, IMO ... sometimes 1 + 1 = 2 ... sometimes 1 + 1 = 3 ... but sometimes, 1 + 1 = 1.5 (or worse) ... that's probably what we would have on our ends with a LeBron/ Westbrook pairing.
Last edited by the association on Mon Jan 09, 2017 8:42 pm; edited 1 time in total
My first reaction was similar to yours, but then I gave it more thought ... knowing what we've known of LeBron and Westbrook over the course of their careers, I think Mike's probably right ... the likelihood that Westbrook might find the self-control to play within a distributive system (and then likely also subjugate himself to LeBron) is pretty low ... he would have to play off the ball for large segments of the game, he would struggle to disengage if his shot wasn't falling, and there are probably a lot of scenarios where I think he would be worse of a fit than Kyrie (with LeBron) ... the Cavaliers needed that relationship between their Top 2 players to work out really well, especially with Love and J.R. Smith unable to muster their "A" games in the 2016 Finals ... anything less would have been a series loss, IMO.
Yup. Basically, you want Westbrook to play LeBron's role, but Westbrook needed KD to take over 4ths and be clutch. That's what helped OKC be successful.
But to finish games? No. I love how Westbrook plays and the fire is there, but dude is playing with blind ambition leading to 5 turnovers a game and some garbage shot selection.
Even when Bryant had to carry the rebuild Lakers, he had far less talent, but he was also the closer.
I don't think of Westbrook as one.
Kyrle OTOH, tried to carry a gutter Cavs team like WB did, but wasn't so horrid with the TOs and shooting percentages. I'm not going to complain about a 2nd or 3rd year PG carrying a team average 21ppg 44%FG, 36% behind the arc, 6 assists, 4rebs, 1.5 steals..
WAIT A MINUTE... those are almost DLO's per 36....!!
I get what you're saying but I think you're overthinking it. Kyrie may fit better but good luck to any team trying to stop Westbrook and Lebron at the same time. Then you add the shooters they have in Cleveland, I wouldn't ever bet against that team. Kyrie is great but I'd take Westbrook over him every time.
Joined: 10 Apr 2001 Posts: 65135 Location: Orange County, CA
Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2017 10:25 pm Post subject:
BigGameHames wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
Quote:
My first reaction was similar to yours, but then I gave it more thought ... knowing what we've known of LeBron and Westbrook over the course of their careers, I think Mike's probably right ... the likelihood that Westbrook might find the self-control to play within a distributive system (and then likely also subjugate himself to LeBron) is pretty low ... he would have to play off the ball for large segments of the game, he would struggle to disengage if his shot wasn't falling, and there are probably a lot of scenarios where I think he would be worse of a fit than Kyrie (with LeBron) ... the Cavaliers needed that relationship between their Top 2 players to work out really well, especially with Love and J.R. Smith unable to muster their "A" games in the 2016 Finals ... anything less would have been a series loss, IMO.
Yup. Basically, you want Westbrook to play LeBron's role, but Westbrook needed KD to take over 4ths and be clutch. That's what helped OKC be successful.
But to finish games? No. I love how Westbrook plays and the fire is there, but dude is playing with blind ambition leading to 5 turnovers a game and some garbage shot selection.
Even when Bryant had to carry the rebuild Lakers, he had far less talent, but he was also the closer.
I don't think of Westbrook as one.
Kyrle OTOH, tried to carry a gutter Cavs team like WB did, but wasn't so horrid with the TOs and shooting percentages. I'm not going to complain about a 2nd or 3rd year PG carrying a team average 21ppg 44%FG, 36% behind the arc, 6 assists, 4rebs, 1.5 steals..
WAIT A MINUTE... those are almost DLO's per 36....!!
I get what you're saying but I think you're overthinking it. Kyrie may fit better but good luck to any team trying to stop Westbrook and Lebron at the same time. Then you add the shooters they have in Cleveland, I wouldn't ever bet against that team. Kyrie is great but I'd take Westbrook over him every time.
What's there to overthink? Kyrie is more clutch than Westbrook, so I chose Kyrie. He's plenty good as a playmaker. He can play D when necessary. He doesn't average 5 turnovers when he carries a team, and he's a better 3pt. shooter.
Honestly, I don't care WB gets triple doubles, because he gives up an extra 3 TOs anyway. _________________ Resident Car Nut.
Joined: 10 Apr 2001 Posts: 65135 Location: Orange County, CA
Posted: Mon Jan 09, 2017 10:28 pm Post subject:
Quote:
You're comparing Kyrie playing 2nd option to LeBron to Westbrook doing it all himself.
OKC took GS to 7 games. If KD didn't choke they would have won. How does essentially replacing KD with LeBron and playing a weaker GS team somehow equal GS winning? Did you see how LeBron played against GS vs how KD played?
No. I'm comparing a guy that once had to carry his team before and didn't go balls out and play out of his mind and still lose games.
OKC took GS to 7 games. Still lost.
GSW was the favorite against the Cavs down 3-1. Kyrie was HUGE winning that championship.
That's not overthinking. I'd even argue that LeBron was the #2 option, not Kyrie, because it was Kyrie doing the scoring, and LeBron doing the facilitating. _________________ Resident Car Nut.
Kyrie. Dude is clutch and perfect fit for a Lebron team. If I want a superstar to carry an average team, WB.
I think if you swap Kyrie with WB where he is the only star on the team he becomes just another high scoring guard on a bad team that we've seen plenty of times over the years.
Except, I think WB on the Cavs and you don't win a championship.
That doesn't make any sense. Westbrook is good enough to get to the finals with KD, and James Harden off the bench, but he can't with LeBron?
Well, obviously they get to the finals in the East last season. But you think they don't win the championship with Westbrook instead of Kyrie last year? After the Thunder already nearly beat the Warriors at full strength?
Serge Ibaka's value as a small ball 5, broke the Spurs and was infinitely more valuable against the lineup of death than anything Cleveland put forward (his best series was against GS too, he outplayed Draymond in 4 of those 7 games and is an excellent defender in his own right). _________________ I believe everything the media tells me except for anything for which I have direct personal knowledge, which they always get wrong
You're comparing Kyrie playing 2nd option to LeBron to Westbrook doing it all himself.
OKC took GS to 7 games. If KD didn't choke they would have won. How does essentially replacing KD with LeBron and playing a weaker GS team somehow equal GS winning? Did you see how LeBron played against GS vs how KD played?
No. I'm comparing a guy that once had to carry his team before and didn't go balls out and play out of his mind and still lose games.
OKC took GS to 7 games. Still lost.
GSW was the favorite against the Cavs down 3-1. Kyrie was HUGE winning that championship.
That's not overthinking. I'd even argue that LeBron was the #2 option, not Kyrie, because it was Kyrie doing the scoring, and LeBron doing the facilitating.
If you replace KD with LeBron on the Thunder, who wins that series? _________________ A banana is killed every time a terrible thread or post is made. Save the bananas. Stop creating terrible posts!
My first reaction was similar to yours, but then I gave it more thought ... knowing what we've known of LeBron and Westbrook over the course of their careers, I think Mike's probably right ... the likelihood that Westbrook might find the self-control to play within a distributive system (and then likely also subjugate himself to LeBron) is pretty low ... he would have to play off the ball for large segments of the game, he would struggle to disengage if his shot wasn't falling, and there are probably a lot of scenarios where I think he would be worse of a fit than Kyrie (with LeBron) ... the Cavaliers needed that relationship between their Top 2 players to work out really well, especially with Love and J.R. Smith unable to muster their "A" games in the 2016 Finals ... anything less would have been a series loss, IMO.
Yup. Basically, you want Westbrook to play LeBron's role, but Westbrook needed KD to take over 4ths and be clutch. That's what helped OKC be successful.
But to finish games? No. I love how Westbrook plays and the fire is there, but dude is playing with blind ambition leading to 5 turnovers a game and some garbage shot selection.
Even when Bryant had to carry the rebuild Lakers, he had far less talent, but he was also the closer.
I don't think of Westbrook as one.
Kyrle OTOH, tried to carry a gutter Cavs team like WB did, but wasn't so horrid with the TOs and shooting percentages. I'm not going to complain about a 2nd or 3rd year PG carrying a team average 21ppg 44%FG, 36% behind the arc, 6 assists, 4rebs, 1.5 steals..
WAIT A MINUTE... those are almost DLO's per 36....!!
I get what you're saying but I think you're overthinking it. Kyrie may fit better but good luck to any team trying to stop Westbrook and Lebron at the same time. Then you add the shooters they have in Cleveland, I wouldn't ever bet against that team. Kyrie is great but I'd take Westbrook over him every time.
What's there to overthink? Kyrie is more clutch than Westbrook, so I chose Kyrie. He's plenty good as a playmaker. He can play D when necessary. He doesn't average 5 turnovers when he carries a team, and he's a better 3pt. shooter.
Honestly, I don't care WB gets triple doubles, because he gives up an extra 3 TOs anyway.
Overthinking the fit instead of just taking the better player. Westbrook and Lebron would be in less close games than Kyrie and him because they bring more talent. I'm not even sure kyrie is more effective in clutch moments if he doesn't have Lebron drawing all that attention. You said kyrie averages less assists while carrying a team, fine, but he also wins less games. And who's to say Westbrook wouldn't average less TOs with a more reasonable usage rate and a better shooting team around him?
I think fit matters but the talent gap between Westbrook and kyrie is too big for me to worry about fit. I'm not even sure Westbrook is the worse fit anyways. Lebron and Westbrook would over power and overwhelm defenses together especially with all those shooters around.
Joined: 10 Apr 2001 Posts: 65135 Location: Orange County, CA
Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2017 8:09 am Post subject:
USCandLakers wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
Quote:
You're comparing Kyrie playing 2nd option to LeBron to Westbrook doing it all himself.
OKC took GS to 7 games. If KD didn't choke they would have won. How does essentially replacing KD with LeBron and playing a weaker GS team somehow equal GS winning? Did you see how LeBron played against GS vs how KD played?
No. I'm comparing a guy that once had to carry his team before and didn't go balls out and play out of his mind and still lose games.
OKC took GS to 7 games. Still lost.
GSW was the favorite against the Cavs down 3-1. Kyrie was HUGE winning that championship.
That's not overthinking. I'd even argue that LeBron was the #2 option, not Kyrie, because it was Kyrie doing the scoring, and LeBron doing the facilitating.
If you replace KD with LeBron on the Thunder, who wins that series?
Both closers in their own right. I can't tell you.
Westbrook, I don't really trust with game winning shots. That's all. _________________ Resident Car Nut.
Joined: 10 Apr 2001 Posts: 65135 Location: Orange County, CA
Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2017 8:15 am Post subject:
Quote:
Overthinking the fit
This isn't about fit at all.
This is about my idea of a better PG being able to shoot, pass, create, play adequate defense when necessary, and by a go-to scoring option when the team needs a game winner.
For me, Kyrie fits that.
Westbrook doesn't.
Why would I say the better PG is Westbrook? Because he goes 100 miles per hour with all of that energy? Because his dunks are better?
Like I said, I love how the guy plays, but he shoots from 18' like Kyrie shoots from 23'9".
Despite all that length and athleticism, Westbrook is a better finisher by 1.5%.
The shooting percentage of Westbrook 10' to 16', is basically the same as Irving from 10' to the 3pt. line.
Sounds like a more complete PG to me.
This reminds me of "Who is the best shooting guard?" questions, and a lot of people choose McGrady because of his length, athleticism, slightly better assist numbers or rebounding or whatever I don't care much about.
In the end, we still picked Bryant because he had the rings to back it up and he could close games. Did it matter that he played next to Shaq vs. played on a rebuilding team? Nope.
If you want to argue, which PG is having the better or best year, then sure, I'd argue Westbrook or James Harden. _________________ Resident Car Nut.
Joined: 10 Apr 2001 Posts: 65135 Location: Orange County, CA
Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2017 8:30 am Post subject:
Quote:
Westbrook and Lebron would be in less close games than Kyrie and him because they bring more talent.
I'd disagree with that as well. This is where fit comes in. Kyrie is a better shooter. Both guys prefer to operate from midrange and in. Where's the spacing?
Quote:
And who's to say Westbrook wouldn't average less TOs with a more reasonable usage rate and a better shooting team around him?
He already had that chance with KD. We already saw what he could do with a borderline championship team. Finals once. Zero rings. Perfect fit for OKC at the time too.
Quote:
I think fit matters but the talent gap between Westbrook and kyrie is too big for me to worry about fit.
Like I said, not a fit issue. Westbrook is great in transition, rebounding..
Finishing? Roughly the same. I'm not going to hustle over 1.5% difference really.
Playmaking? Depends on how you define it. 2:1 A/TO ratio with 10 assists, doesn't really impress me like CP3.
Shooting? Kyrie, by far.
Clutch? I think it's Kyrie, by far.
You may consider Westbrook more talented as an All-Around player.
I consider Kyrie maybe 80% as talented as an All-Around player, but FAR more talented as a scorer.
Like, who in the world shoots over 50% from 16' to the 3pt line? Kyle Korver? Stephen Curry? Add Kyrie to the list. I know Curry is having a down year. He's been a better perimeter shooter than Stephen Curry. By far.
1. Westbrook
2. Harden
3. Chris Paul GOAT pg after Magic (I said this during the Deron Williams debates, and I'll continue to say it. He's just too good)
4. Kyrie
5. Steph
6. Giannis
7. John Wall
8. Lowry
9. Lillard
10. Kemba Walker _________________ My Dream Starting 5 next Season
You're comparing Kyrie playing 2nd option to LeBron to Westbrook doing it all himself.
OKC took GS to 7 games. If KD didn't choke they would have won. How does essentially replacing KD with LeBron and playing a weaker GS team somehow equal GS winning? Did you see how LeBron played against GS vs how KD played?
No. I'm comparing a guy that once had to carry his team before and didn't go balls out and play out of his mind and still lose games.
OKC took GS to 7 games. Still lost.
GSW was the favorite against the Cavs down 3-1. Kyrie was HUGE winning that championship.
That's not overthinking. I'd even argue that LeBron was the #2 option, not Kyrie, because it was Kyrie doing the scoring, and LeBron doing the facilitating.
If you replace KD with LeBron on the Thunder, who wins that series?
Both closers in their own right. I can't tell you.
Westbrook, I don't really trust with game winning shots. That's all.
KD didn't close at all vs the Warriors. He was awful. Come on man, this one is easy. We saw how KD played against the Warriors, we saw how LeBron played against them. Both 7 game series. OKC was up 3-1 and KD failed to close. LeBron was down 1-3 and closed the ever living (bleep) out the Warriors. I understand you're trying to make a point, but you have to be willing to admit that OKC beats the Warriors with LeBron instead of KD.
You can still have your point that Kyrie is a better fit next to LeBron and a better closer than Westbrook while still admitting that yes, a team lead by LeBron and Westbrook would have beaten last year's Warriors. You can still have that. _________________ A banana is killed every time a terrible thread or post is made. Save the bananas. Stop creating terrible posts!
Joined: 10 Apr 2001 Posts: 65135 Location: Orange County, CA
Posted: Tue Jan 10, 2017 9:42 am Post subject:
Quote:
but you have to be willing to admit that OKC beats the Warriors with LeBron instead of KD.
Nope. Hasn't been proven.
We've seen Westbrook and Kyrie on losing teams and borderline championship teams. This argument isn't how well they would do if they switched teams. The argument is, who I think is the better PG.
My criteria for better PG includes some all-around play, but better perimeter abilities and proven moments in clutch.
That's it.
Like I said, if this was about who is having the best year? Sure. Westbrook. Harden. But the fact that Kyrie is outshooting Stephen Curry (even on his down year) from the perimeter is telling just how underrated his shooting has been.
At the risk of bringing up a bit more controversy, I'd rather have Kyrie on the Lakers than Westbrook, even if I think Westbrook is the better fit. _________________ Resident Car Nut.
3. Chris Paul GOAT pg after Magic (I said this during the Deron Williams debates, and I'll continue to say it. He's just too good)
John (bleep) Stockton.
Jason Kidd.
Gary Payton.
Steve Nash.
I would take a prime Tony Parker over any of those guys. Guy could get to the basket at will.
Payton and Nash, really? _________________ A banana is killed every time a terrible thread or post is made. Save the bananas. Stop creating terrible posts!
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