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AirKobe8
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wolfpaclaker
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 Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 9:25 am Post subject: |
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Phil's seen this before
Samaki Walker in 2002-2003  |
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magic_bryant
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Joined: 16 Oct 2002
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| Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 9:28 am Post subject: |
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OH COME ON WOLF!!! 
| wolfpaclaker wrote: | Phil's seen this before
Samaki Walker in 2002-2003 |
:roll:
Like Samaki was THAT bad.
_________________
Stephon Marbury on Kobe: "He's the only person on 'dis earth that can do 'dat. He guards people, like shuts 'em down. Then, to do 'dat on 'da offensive end. It's like 'Damn, I can't score on him AND he about to bust my ass." |
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Mjr. Pwnage
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| Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 9:30 am Post subject: |
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If Turiaf proves NBA ready (a big "if", I know), I would seriously consider moving Kwame for a late first round pick. To any team who might need a big body off the bench for a playoff run. Detroit, Cleveland, Phoenix, etc.
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wolfpaclaker
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| Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 9:32 am Post subject: |
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| magic_bryant wrote: | OH COME ON WOLF!!!
| wolfpaclaker wrote: | Phil's seen this before
Samaki Walker in 2002-2003 |
:roll:
Like Samaki was THAT bad.
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Seriously, In 2001-2002 Samaki was underrated. He had a great Spur series in the PO's and had some good moments. What he average like 11 and 9 in that series and 7 and 7 for the year?
That was better.
BUT, he was horrendous the following season. He was around this bad, if not worse because atleast Kwame will have some bright moments once every 5 games or so. |
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mrdectown
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Joined: 19 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 9:34 am Post subject: |
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| Its phil's fault we got the bum. its phil fault we last that game. man and to think we could have had flip saunders for 2 mil |
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hoopschick29
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Joined: 23 Jul 2004
Posts: 12898
Location: Los Angeles
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| Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 9:34 am Post subject: |
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| Samaki pulled the classic okey-doke on us. Looked great in that contract year with the Sterns, and came here and showed his true colors. |
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wolfpaclaker
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| Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 9:36 am Post subject: |
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| mrdectown wrote: | | Its phil's fault we got the bum. its phil fault we last that game. man and to think we could have had flip saunders for 2 mil |
Relax.
It's not like Kwame's a Laker for life. Like Samaki Walker we may only have to endure this for one more season.
Anyway, we all make mistakes.
Phil made a mistake on his evaluation of JJ and Caron. He overvalued Kwame, Walton and George and undervalued them.
None of these moves are really that big though.
If Phil can coach the Lakers to the playoffs, he's cool with me. |
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magic_bryant
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Joined: 16 Oct 2002
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| Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 9:36 am Post subject: |
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| wolfpaclaker wrote: | | magic_bryant wrote: | OH COME ON WOLF!!!
| wolfpaclaker wrote: | Phil's seen this before
Samaki Walker in 2002-2003 |
:roll:
Like Samaki was THAT bad.
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Seriously, In 2001-2002 Samaki was underrated. He had a great Spur series in the PO's and had some good moments. What he average like 11 and 9 in that series and 7 and 7 for the year?
That was better.
BUT, he was horrendous the following season. He was around this bad, if not worse because atleast Kwame will have some bright moments once every 5 games or so. |
True.
_________________
Stephon Marbury on Kobe: "He's the only person on 'dis earth that can do 'dat. He guards people, like shuts 'em down. Then, to do 'dat on 'da offensive end. It's like 'Damn, I can't score on him AND he about to bust my ass." |
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filipensses
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| Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 9:39 am Post subject: |
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| magic_bryant wrote: | OH COME ON WOLF!!!
| wolfpaclaker wrote: | Phil's seen this before
Samaki Walker in 2002-2003 |
:roll:
Like Samaki was THAT bad.
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He was. No matter how bad Kwame is, he'll never be a Samaki. Samaki Walker is like the Highlander of PF's: there can be only one!
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mrdectown
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Joined: 19 Jun 2005
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| Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 9:40 am Post subject: |
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| wolfpaclaker wrote: | | mrdectown wrote: | | Its phil's fault we got the bum. its phil fault we last that game. man and to think we could have had flip saunders for 2 mil |
Relax.
It's not like Kwame's a Laker for life. Like Samaki Walker we may only have to endure this for one more season.
Anyway, we all make mistakes.
Phil made a mistake on his evaluation of JJ and Caron. He overvalued Kwame, Walton and George and undervalued them.
None of these moves are really that big though.
If Phil can coach the Lakers to the playoffs, he's cool with me. |
mmm I guess |
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LakerLegend
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| Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 9:42 am Post subject: |
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You would think something like this would wake Kwame up. I doubt it. After his refusal to learn from Lew Alcindor, I am just about through with him. I was excited when he came from the Wizards, but he has been a major disappointment.
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Shapecity
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| Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 9:49 am Post subject: |
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| LakerLegend wrote: | | You would think something like this would wake Kwame up. I doubt it. After his refusal to learn from Lew Alcindor, I am just about through with him. I was excited when he came from the Wizards, but he has been a major disappointment. |
Pretty much sums up his NBA career. |
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Aussiesuede
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| Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 9:58 am Post subject: |
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| Shapecity wrote: | | LakerLegend wrote: | | You would think something like this would wake Kwame up. I doubt it. After his refusal to learn from Lew Alcindor, I am just about through with him. I was excited when he came from the Wizards, but he has been a major disappointment. |
Pretty much sums up his NBA career. |
Kwame has definitely been a disappointment, but I can't help but continue to remind everyone that not very many 23y.o. power forwards have ever been much more productive than Kwame is right not. EVER. It's too easy for folks to dismiss his age, but PF is a MANS position and Kwame is still a boy. A successful PF needs a MANS mentality. Kwame obviously still has a boys mentality...
Now Kwame may never develop that dominant mentality(very good possibility of that being the case), but look throughout history and you won't find very many 23y.o. dominant PF's, nor very many who are leaps and bounds better than Kwame - especially in todays NBA. I know defending Kwame is about as popular as a hemmrhoid removal, but let's be reasonable in our expectations. How many of you were dominant at your jobs at 23?
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I'm On point, On task, On message, and Off drugs. A Streetwise Smart Bomb, Out of rehab and In denial. Over the Top, On the edge, Under the Radar, and In Control. Behind the 8 ball, Ahead of the Curve and I've got a Love Child who sends me Hate mail. |
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trmiv
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Location: Orlando
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| Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 10:03 am Post subject: |
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| Aussiesuede wrote: | | Shapecity wrote: | | LakerLegend wrote: | | You would think something like this would wake Kwame up. I doubt it. After his refusal to learn from Lew Alcindor, I am just about through with him. I was excited when he came from the Wizards, but he has been a major disappointment. |
Pretty much sums up his NBA career. |
Kwame has definitely been a disappointment, but I can't help but continue to remind everyone that not very many 23y.o. power forwards have ever been much more productive than Kwame is right not. EVER. It's too easy for folks to dismiss his age, but PF is a MANS position and Kwame is still a boy. A successful PF needs a MANS mentality. Kwame obviously still has a boys mentality...
Now Kwame may never develop that dominant mentality(very good possibility of that being the case), but look throughout history and you won't find very many 23y.o. dominant PF's, nor very many who are leaps and bounds better than Kwame - especially in todays NBA. I know defending Kwame is about as popular as a hemmrhoid removal, but let's be reasonable in our expectations. How many of you were dominant at your jobs at 23? |
I don't think anyone expects Kwame to be dominant at this point, they just expect him to not hurt the team when he's on the floor. For #1 draft pick with the NBA body he has, 10-12 points and 9-10 rebounds on a nightly basis, without bricking layups is not an unreasonable expectation. As it is, he's a liability, and that is not a good thing from your starting power forward. |
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wolfpaclaker
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| Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 10:03 am Post subject: |
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^
23 year olds are ussually out of college and in their 2nd season in the NBA.
Chris Bosh plays at PF and he's around the same age.
Al Harrington plays at PF and he's around the same age.
Tyson Chandler plays at PF/C and he's around the same age.
That's just a few young PF's in Kwame's age group right off the top of my head.
Kwame is a problem. He is his own worst enemy. Gets down on himself, doesn't work on his basketball skills (FT's, Low post game) and doesn't even want learn from a HOF like KAJ. |
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Freakout
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Joined: 12 Apr 2001
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| Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 10:07 am Post subject: |
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| Actually I'd take Samaki Walker over Kwame. Sure Samaki would fumble passes but he could finish around the basket and rarely hit a jumpshot. |
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heineken
Star Player
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| Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 10:09 am Post subject: |
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He was only stating the obvious.
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Aussiesuede
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Joined: 27 Jul 2005
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| Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 10:13 am Post subject: |
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| trmiv wrote: | | Aussiesuede wrote: | | Shapecity wrote: | | LakerLegend wrote: | | You would think something like this would wake Kwame up. I doubt it. After his refusal to learn from Lew Alcindor, I am just about through with him. I was excited when he came from the Wizards, but he has been a major disappointment. |
Pretty much sums up his NBA career. |
Kwame has definitely been a disappointment, but I can't help but continue to remind everyone that not very many 23y.o. power forwards have ever been much more productive than Kwame is right not. EVER. It's too easy for folks to dismiss his age, but PF is a MANS position and Kwame is still a boy. A successful PF needs a MANS mentality. Kwame obviously still has a boys mentality...
Now Kwame may never develop that dominant mentality(very good possibility of that being the case), but look throughout history and you won't find very many 23y.o. dominant PF's, nor very many who are leaps and bounds better than Kwame - especially in todays NBA. I know defending Kwame is about as popular as a hemmrhoid removal, but let's be reasonable in our expectations. How many of you were dominant at your jobs at 23? |
I don't think anyone expects Kwame to be dominant at this point, they just expect him to not hurt the team when he's on the floor. For #1 draft pick with the NBA body he has, 10-12 points and 9-10 rebounds on a nightly basis, without bricking layups is not an unreasonable expectation. As it is, he's a liability, and that is not a good thing from your starting power forward. |
Then blame Phil for continuing to play him. Kwame is doing everything asked of him now. Most of us agree that a major part of his problem is he's trying too hard much of the time. Can you imagine the torture. He's trying as best he can and still can't get over the hump? Would you rather he just stop trying? Phil has no problem sitting Wafer and Green. Why not sit Kwame right nest to them if he's hurting the team so much??
_________________
I'm On point, On task, On message, and Off drugs. A Streetwise Smart Bomb, Out of rehab and In denial. Over the Top, On the edge, Under the Radar, and In Control. Behind the 8 ball, Ahead of the Curve and I've got a Love Child who sends me Hate mail. |
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trmiv
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Joined: 19 Nov 2001
Posts: 17657
Location: Orlando
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| Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 10:18 am Post subject: |
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| Aussiesuede wrote: | | trmiv wrote: | | Aussiesuede wrote: | | Shapecity wrote: | | LakerLegend wrote: | | You would think something like this would wake Kwame up. I doubt it. After his refusal to learn from Lew Alcindor, I am just about through with him. I was excited when he came from the Wizards, but he has been a major disappointment. |
Pretty much sums up his NBA career. |
Kwame has definitely been a disappointment, but I can't help but continue to remind everyone that not very many 23y.o. power forwards have ever been much more productive than Kwame is right not. EVER. It's too easy for folks to dismiss his age, but PF is a MANS position and Kwame is still a boy. A successful PF needs a MANS mentality. Kwame obviously still has a boys mentality...
Now Kwame may never develop that dominant mentality(very good possibility of that being the case), but look throughout history and you won't find very many 23y.o. dominant PF's, nor very many who are leaps and bounds better than Kwame - especially in todays NBA. I know defending Kwame is about as popular as a hemmrhoid removal, but let's be reasonable in our expectations. How many of you were dominant at your jobs at 23? |
I don't think anyone expects Kwame to be dominant at this point, they just expect him to not hurt the team when he's on the floor. For #1 draft pick with the NBA body he has, 10-12 points and 9-10 rebounds on a nightly basis, without bricking layups is not an unreasonable expectation. As it is, he's a liability, and that is not a good thing from your starting power forward. |
Then blame Phil for continuing to play him. Kwame is doing everything asked of him now. Most of us agree that a major part of his problem is he's trying too hard much of the time. Can you imagine the torture. He's trying as best he can and still can't get over the hump? Would you rather he just stop trying? Phil has no problem sitting Wafer and Green. Why not sit Kwame right nest to them if he's hurting the team so much?? |
He's doing everything asked of him? I'm sorry, bricking layups, missing defensive assignments, and making stupid fouls is not being asked of him. Trying too hard? If he was trying so hard, why not try to improve? Mihm sought Cap for improvement, and did improve, but Kwame feels he's a face-up player and doesn't need it? Are you kidding me?
Wafer and Green aren't getting paid almost 8 million a year, and play positions where the Lakers actually have some decent players already. Sadly, Kwame is pretty much all the Lakers have at the 4 spot. |
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hoopschick29
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Joined: 23 Jul 2004
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Location: Los Angeles
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| Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 10:18 am Post subject: |
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Let me just first concede that I was in favor of trading for Kwame. I knew he needed a lot of work, but I thought he would bring something substantive to the table.
One of the things I figured out about Kwame about 10 games into the season that startled me was he didn't have a single solitary crutch move. Every player has one...whether they're coming out of high school or college. You gotta have at least ONE move that is money. This is Kwame's 4th, 5 year and he has nothing...not a drop step, not a baby hook, not a 5 ft jumpshot....nothing. How does that happen?? How does he not figure out something that he can do really well over that period of time? |
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Aussiesuede
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Joined: 27 Jul 2005
Posts: 10964
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| Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 10:26 am Post subject: |
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| hoopschick29 wrote: | Let me just first concede that I was in favor of trading for Kwame. I knew he needed a lot of work, but I thought he would bring something substantive to the table.
One of the things I figured out about Kwame about 10 games into the season that startled me was he didn't have a single solitary crutch move. Every player has one...whether they're coming out of high school or college. You gotta have at least ONE move that is money. This is Kwame's 4th, 5 year and he has nothing...not a drop step, not a baby hook, not a 5 ft jumpshot....nothing. How does that happen?? How does he not figure out something that he can do really well over that period of time? |
Lack of coaching and lack of personal drive. That's how. Both of which were KNOWN quantities BEFORE the Lakers CHOSE to hire Kwame.
_________________
I'm On point, On task, On message, and Off drugs. A Streetwise Smart Bomb, Out of rehab and In denial. Over the Top, On the edge, Under the Radar, and In Control. Behind the 8 ball, Ahead of the Curve and I've got a Love Child who sends me Hate mail. |
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wolfpaclaker
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Joined: 29 May 2002
Posts: 58336
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| Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 10:28 am Post subject: |
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| Aussiesuede wrote: | | hoopschick29 wrote: | Let me just first concede that I was in favor of trading for Kwame. I knew he needed a lot of work, but I thought he would bring something substantive to the table.
One of the things I figured out about Kwame about 10 games into the season that startled me was he didn't have a single solitary crutch move. Every player has one...whether they're coming out of high school or college. You gotta have at least ONE move that is money. This is Kwame's 4th, 5 year and he has nothing...not a drop step, not a baby hook, not a 5 ft jumpshot....nothing. How does that happen?? How does he not figure out something that he can do really well over that period of time? |
Lack of coaching and lack of personal drive. That's how. Both of which were KNOWN quantities BEFORE the Lakers CHOSE to hire Kwame. |
And yet, Kwame doesn't really want KAJ's help.
Who's to blame now?
Let me guess - Not Kwame. His childhood or better yet - The evil Micheal Jordan. |
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Aussiesuede
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Joined: 27 Jul 2005
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| Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 10:35 am Post subject: |
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| wolfpaclaker wrote: | | Aussiesuede wrote: | | hoopschick29 wrote: | Let me just first concede that I was in favor of trading for Kwame. I knew he needed a lot of work, but I thought he would bring something substantive to the table.
One of the things I figured out about Kwame about 10 games into the season that startled me was he didn't have a single solitary crutch move. Every player has one...whether they're coming out of high school or college. You gotta have at least ONE move that is money. This is Kwame's 4th, 5 year and he has nothing...not a drop step, not a baby hook, not a 5 ft jumpshot....nothing. How does that happen?? How does he not figure out something that he can do really well over that period of time? |
Lack of coaching and lack of personal drive. That's how. Both of which were KNOWN quantities BEFORE the Lakers CHOSE to hire Kwame. |
And yet, Kwame doesn't really want KAJ's help.
Who's to blame now?
Let me guess - Not Kwame. His childhood or better yet - The evil Micheal Jordan who tried to make a man out of him.
How dare he. |
As I said before, 23 yo don't generally act like SMART evolved adults. No surprise there. Ultimately Kwame is responsible for all of his actions, ut so are those who choose to GAMBLE on him. It doesn't take a brain surgeon to see that it was going to take more than half a season for Kwame to develop. If he ever develops then it's likely to take another 4 season or so. Organisations like the Lakers are supposed to know that. Givig Kwame the boot wo't bother me that mch actually. But as long as he's trying as is simply guilty of being a young kid who doesn't know HOW to do the smart thing - I'll defend him against men. It's not a vctims mentality I'm trying to sell. I'm trying to point out that the Kwame experiement should nt be surprising to anyone. Kwame was, is, and for a while more will be - A PROJECT. If they Lakers wanted a finished priduct they would have been smarter to invest elsewhere. So I'll blame Laker management much more than Kwame for that misjudgement. When Kwame stops trying then I'll lay an equal blame at both their footsteps, but right now the Lakers gambled and are losing.
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I'm On point, On task, On message, and Off drugs. A Streetwise Smart Bomb, Out of rehab and In denial. Over the Top, On the edge, Under the Radar, and In Control. Behind the 8 ball, Ahead of the Curve and I've got a Love Child who sends me Hate mail. |
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golden armor
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| Posted: Wed Feb 08, 2006 10:36 am Post subject: |
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I'll step up and admit that I also was for the Kwame trade. I bought into all the usual arguments - Big v. a 3; 7 footer with athleticism, was a 1st pick for a reason etc...
That being said, I and probably most of the people here, only saw a handful of Wizards games over the last few years. If we saw most of Kwame's games, we might have had a different opinion.
Again, he does play solid man post defense, but lately this is about the only thing he's done ok. His help defensive and understanding of rotations has been horrible. His offense has been atrocious. His enegery has been lackluster. Obviously, the team's not going to give up on him after only one half of a season especially since I don't see any decent offers coming for him at this point.
It's starting to look like Kwame may fulfill the "Bust" label so many have already placed on him. |
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