Joined: 10 Apr 2001 Posts: 65135 Location: Orange County, CA
Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2017 9:52 pm Post subject:
jodeke wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
jodeke wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
Yeah, people will see "He got 26 points and 9 boards, shot over 50% fromt he field..."
That's how he plays when he gets the minutes. He played 35 tonight. I imagine it's frustrating and hard to get a rhythm not knowing if you're going to play or not.
How many good defensive C are in the league today?
Better question. How many Cs help facilitate a better offense today?
There are no more Bill Walton's. Today's game is all about me. Everybody want to score. That's what makes GS so hard to beat, they're very unselfish.
Nikola Jokic
Marc Gasol
DeMarcus Cousins
Lesser extent Vucevic
Al Horford
That's off the top of my head. _________________ Resident Car Nut.
Joined: 17 Nov 2007 Posts: 67627 Location: In a world where admitting to not knowing something is considered a great way to learn.
Posted: Sat Jan 14, 2017 10:14 pm Post subject:
Mike@LG wrote:
jodeke wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
jodeke wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
Yeah, people will see "He got 26 points and 9 boards, shot over 50% fromt he field..."
That's how he plays when he gets the minutes. He played 35 tonight. I imagine it's frustrating and hard to get a rhythm not knowing if you're going to play or not.
How many good defensive C are in the league today?
Better question. How many Cs help facilitate a better offense today?
There are no more Bill Walton's. Today's game is all about me. Everybody want to score. That's what makes GS so hard to beat, they're very unselfish.
Nikola Jokic
Marc Gasol
DeMarcus Cousins
Lesser extent Vucevic
Al Horford
That's off the top of my head.
The 10 Best Passing Centers In The NBA Garnett has retired.
Noah is right up there with Walton. I thought Bill's ast was higher than 3.4 pg. According to this link there are more Walton's. _________________ Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves.
Joined: 14 Apr 2001 Posts: 144462 Location: The Gold Coast
Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2017 11:00 am Post subject:
the association wrote:
jonnybravo wrote:
They went 5-1 with him gathering DNP's. They started him today. He put up the gaudy stats.
Guess what? Got their asses kicked by the Wizards today.
Showcasing him for trade leverage ... ? I admit, I'm not following his journey that closely any more, but those DNPs must be exasperating for a 21 year old.
Evidently not enough for him to work on and improve upon his weaknesses. _________________ RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023.
Yeah, people will see "He got 26 points and 9 boards, shot over 50% fromt he field..."
That's how he plays when he gets the minutes. He played 35 tonight. I imagine it's frustrating and hard to get a rhythm not knowing if you're going to play or not.
How many good defensive C are in the league today?
Better question. How many Cs help facilitate a better offense today?
There are no more Bill Walton's. Today's game is all about me. Everybody want to score. That's what makes GS so hard to beat, they're very unselfish.
Nikola Jokic
Marc Gasol
DeMarcus Cousins
Lesser extent Vucevic
Al Horford
That's off the top of my head.
The 10 Best Passing Centers In The NBA Garnett has retired.
Joined: 17 Nov 2007 Posts: 67627 Location: In a world where admitting to not knowing something is considered a great way to learn.
Posted: Sun Jan 15, 2017 12:49 pm Post subject:
GoldenThroat wrote:
jodeke wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
jodeke wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
jodeke wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
Yeah, people will see "He got 26 points and 9 boards, shot over 50% fromt he field..."
That's how he plays when he gets the minutes. He played 35 tonight. I imagine it's frustrating and hard to get a rhythm not knowing if you're going to play or not.
How many good defensive C are in the league today?
Better question. How many Cs help facilitate a better offense today?
There are no more Bill Walton's. Today's game is all about me. Everybody want to score. That's what makes GS so hard to beat, they're very unselfish.
Nikola Jokic
Marc Gasol
DeMarcus Cousins
Lesser extent Vucevic
Al Horford
That's off the top of my head.
The 10 Best Passing Centers In The NBA Garnett has retired.
Noah is right up there with Walton. I thought Bill's ast was higher than 3.4 pg. According to this link there are more Walton's.
That link is almost 3 years old. How much basketball do you honestly watch these days, jodeke?
Those guys, except KG,are still in the league. Horford, Gasol and Cousins are on the list. What does three years have to do with good passing C's?.
I have league pass. Switching between Mav vs T-wolves, Bucks vs Hawks. Mavs beat Wolves 98-87. My homie and I have a gentlemens $3.00 bet per game. He's down 23 games. We pay at seasons end. Won $36.00 last season.
Going over the the NFL Sunday.
Time for some Feetball. I like Dallas and Pittsburgh.
EDIT: Correction; I won by 24 games, $72.00 _________________ Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves.
Joined: 17 Nov 2007 Posts: 67627 Location: In a world where admitting to not knowing something is considered a great way to learn.
Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 6:51 pm Post subject:
jonnybravo wrote:
Okafor back to getting another DNP-CD.
...And the Sixers go back to getting ANOTHER win. This time against the #2 team in the East in Toronto.
Embiid just destroying teams right now. Holy cow with the +20 dominance.
The two year wait is paying off for Philly. Embiid is a beast. Their backup center Noel could start on a lot of teams. I don't think they'll be able to keep both long.
I believe Okafor will be gone at or before the trade deadline.
DO IT MITCH _________________ Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves.
Last edited by jodeke on Thu Jan 19, 2017 11:26 am; edited 1 time in total
Lakers offer Huertas, Young or Chalderon, plus a second round pick, plus remove the Top-3 protection of this years draft pick.
I'd go with Huertas and Chalderon. I like Nicks play so far this season. He's sometimes been a igniter. Second rounder sounds doable. Remove Top-3 is stretching.
I like Young too, but you have to dangle something of value to them, after all Okafer was the 3rd pick in the draft.
Huertas + a 2nd pick is actually an insult, Calderon is not really needed here, but has an expiring contract. Young has played great, but Clarkson can move back into the starting line-up, leaving Lou off the bench.
Also, the Lakers "owe" that pick and are gonna lose it sooner or later anyway, so removing the protection is a nice incentive for Philly, who can probably get more for Okafor from a dozen other teams...
Okafor is a 3rd pick in the draft whose team has been better when he doesn't play. He doesn't address any of our weaknesses. Calderon's ending contract would be about as far as I would go. Maybe try to get involved in a 3-way where someone else gets Okafor and we get another piece. JO isn't a bad player by any means, he just isn't a good fit in today's game. As a scoring big off the bench he might be a good fit, though.
Lakers offer Huertas, Young or Chalderon, plus a second round pick, plus remove the Top-3 protection of this years draft pick.
I'd go with Huertas and Chalderon. I like Nicks play so far this season. He's sometimes been a igniter. Second rounder sounds doable. Remove Top-3 is stretching.
I like Young too, but you have to dangle something of value to them, after all Okafer was the 3rd pick in the draft.
Huertas + a 2nd pick is actually an insult, Calderon is not really needed here, but has an expiring contract. Young has played great, but Clarkson can move back into the starting line-up, leaving Lou off the bench.
Also, the Lakers "owe" that pick and are gonna lose it sooner or later anyway, so removing the protection is a nice incentive for Philly, who can probably get more for Okafor from a dozen other teams...
Okafor is a 3rd pick in the draft whose team has been better when he doesn't play. He doesn't address any of our weaknesses. Calderon's ending contract would be about as far as I would go. Maybe try to get involved in a 3-way where someone else gets Okafor and we get another piece. JO isn't a bad player by any means, he just isn't a good fit in today's game. As a scoring big off the bench he might be a good fit, though.
Pretty much this. No thank you.
Okafor is not someone I'd want to build around but he's good enough to start for some team. They'll get a pick or a recent lottery pick who hasn't panned out yet.
As a Kanter scorer off the bench, I wouldn't mind.
However, I wouldn't offer much to the 76ers. Maybe an expiring and some 2nd rounders, which is a huge disappointment for a #3 pick (and passing on Porky). _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals
Joined: 24 Dec 2007 Posts: 35812 Location: Santa Clarita, CA (Hell) ->>>>>Ithaca, NY -≥≥≥≥≥Berkeley, CA
Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 3:45 pm Post subject:
I've never seen someone's stock drop as quickly as Okafor's. He went from being seen as the next Tim Duncan to being some scrub who nobody wants. _________________ Damian Lillard shatters Dwight Coward's championship dreams:
I've never seen someone's stock drop as quickly as Okafor's. He went from being seen as the next Tim Duncan to being some scrub who nobody wants.
I was saying it during the draft. The association to TD had to do with their appearance, facial demeanor, position. The totality of their games were nothing alike. _________________ KOBE
Joined: 24 Dec 2007 Posts: 35812 Location: Santa Clarita, CA (Hell) ->>>>>Ithaca, NY -≥≥≥≥≥Berkeley, CA
Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 3:56 pm Post subject:
jonnybravo wrote:
CandyCanes wrote:
I've never seen someone's stock drop as quickly as Okafor's. He went from being seen as the next Tim Duncan to being some scrub who nobody wants.
I was saying it during the draft. The association to TD had to do with their appearance, facial demeanor, position. The totality of their games were nothing alike.
That's interesting-- until just now, I never realized that they actually look pretty similar. What parts of Duncan's offense are superior to Okafor's, other than his jumpshot? As in, why is it that Duncan was such an efficient player on offense while Okafor is among the most inefficient in the entire league? _________________ Damian Lillard shatters Dwight Coward's championship dreams:
I've never seen someone's stock drop as quickly as Okafor's. He went from being seen as the next Tim Duncan to being some scrub who nobody wants.
I was saying it during the draft. The association to TD had to do with their appearance, facial demeanor, position. The totality of their games were nothing alike.
That's interesting-- until just now, I never realized that they actually look pretty similar. What parts of Duncan's offense are superior to Okafor's, other than his jumpshot? As in, why is it that Duncan was such an efficient player on offense while Okafor is among the most inefficient in the entire league?
Duncan hasn't been a post-centric player for the better part of a decade. The lazy narrative is, big guy scores, ergo player is a post player. He CAN post up in his latter years but the Spurs rarely went to it unless it was a super ideal matchup. He played much more off the ball. Throw defense/rebounding into the mix and we're basically looking at 2 totally different players. _________________ KOBE
Joined: 24 Dec 2007 Posts: 35812 Location: Santa Clarita, CA (Hell) ->>>>>Ithaca, NY -≥≥≥≥≥Berkeley, CA
Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 4:19 pm Post subject:
jonnybravo wrote:
CandyCanes wrote:
jonnybravo wrote:
CandyCanes wrote:
I've never seen someone's stock drop as quickly as Okafor's. He went from being seen as the next Tim Duncan to being some scrub who nobody wants.
I was saying it during the draft. The association to TD had to do with their appearance, facial demeanor, position. The totality of their games were nothing alike.
That's interesting-- until just now, I never realized that they actually look pretty similar. What parts of Duncan's offense are superior to Okafor's, other than his jumpshot? As in, why is it that Duncan was such an efficient player on offense while Okafor is among the most inefficient in the entire league?
Duncan hasn't been a post-centric player for the better part of a decade. The lazy narrative is, big guy scores, ergo player is a post player. He CAN post up in his latter years but the Spurs rarely went to it unless it was a super ideal matchup. He played much more off the ball. Throw defense/rebounding into the mix and we're basically looking at 2 totally different players.
Did he post up earlier in his career?
Why were Shaq and Olajuwon so efficient in the post when the post-up is supposedly the most inefficient play in basketball-- was it just that it was a different era, or were those two just so good in the post that they were exceptions to the rule? _________________ Damian Lillard shatters Dwight Coward's championship dreams:
I've never seen someone's stock drop as quickly as Okafor's. He went from being seen as the next Tim Duncan to being some scrub who nobody wants.
I was saying it during the draft. The association to TD had to do with their appearance, facial demeanor, position. The totality of their games were nothing alike.
That's interesting-- until just now, I never realized that they actually look pretty similar. What parts of Duncan's offense are superior to Okafor's, other than his jumpshot? As in, why is it that Duncan was such an efficient player on offense while Okafor is among the most inefficient in the entire league?
Duncan hasn't been a post-centric player for the better part of a decade. The lazy narrative is, big guy scores, ergo player is a post player. He CAN post up in his latter years but the Spurs rarely went to it unless it was a super ideal matchup. He played much more off the ball. Throw defense/rebounding into the mix and we're basically looking at 2 totally different players.
Did he post up earlier in his career?
Why were Shaq and Olajuwon so efficient in the post when the post-up is supposedly the most inefficient play in basketball-- was it just that it was a different era, or were those two just so good in the post that they were exceptions to the rule?
Rules were different. It's to easy now to clog the middle. Even the act of getting the ball into the post now is so much harder since they allow double teams off the ball. Combine that with the cheap incidental contact calls whistled on the perimeter and it's easier to get productive possessions out of your ball handlers. The proflieration of 3 point shooters is just the icing on the cake. There are more than 53 guys that shoot better than 38% from 3, 33 guys over 40% (including several centers). In 2000, we had 39 and 23 respectively on MUCH lower volume. It's fashionable to talk about how the modern player is so much worse fundamentally but if we're talking shooting, it's not even close...they're so good now it's almost ridiculous. Look at a guy like Patrick Beverly. The knock on him is that he simply can't shoot. He's hitting 39% from 3... _________________ KOBE
Last edited by jonnybravo on Thu Jan 19, 2017 4:59 pm; edited 1 time in total
Joined: 24 Dec 2007 Posts: 35812 Location: Santa Clarita, CA (Hell) ->>>>>Ithaca, NY -≥≥≥≥≥Berkeley, CA
Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 4:56 pm Post subject:
jonnybravo wrote:
CandyCanes wrote:
jonnybravo wrote:
CandyCanes wrote:
jonnybravo wrote:
CandyCanes wrote:
I've never seen someone's stock drop as quickly as Okafor's. He went from being seen as the next Tim Duncan to being some scrub who nobody wants.
I was saying it during the draft. The association to TD had to do with their appearance, facial demeanor, position. The totality of their games were nothing alike.
That's interesting-- until just now, I never realized that they actually look pretty similar. What parts of Duncan's offense are superior to Okafor's, other than his jumpshot? As in, why is it that Duncan was such an efficient player on offense while Okafor is among the most inefficient in the entire league?
Duncan hasn't been a post-centric player for the better part of a decade. The lazy narrative is, big guy scores, ergo player is a post player. He CAN post up in his latter years but the Spurs rarely went to it unless it was a super ideal matchup. He played much more off the ball. Throw defense/rebounding into the mix and we're basically looking at 2 totally different players.
Did he post up earlier in his career?
Why were Shaq and Olajuwon so efficient in the post when the post-up is supposedly the most inefficient play in basketball-- was it just that it was a different era, or were those two just so good in the post that they were exceptions to the rule?
Rules were different. It's to easy now to clog the middle. Even the act of getting the ball into the post now is so much harder since they allow double teams off the ball. Combine that with the cheap incidental contact calls whistled on the perimeter and it's easier to get productive possessions out of your ball handlers.
So would Shaq even be considered a good player if he played today? Why was someone like Zach Randolph so effective on the Grizzlies? (Sorry for so many questions.) _________________ Damian Lillard shatters Dwight Coward's championship dreams:
I've never seen someone's stock drop as quickly as Okafor's. He went from being seen as the next Tim Duncan to being some scrub who nobody wants.
I was saying it during the draft. The association to TD had to do with their appearance, facial demeanor, position. The totality of their games were nothing alike.
That's interesting-- until just now, I never realized that they actually look pretty similar. What parts of Duncan's offense are superior to Okafor's, other than his jumpshot? As in, why is it that Duncan was such an efficient player on offense while Okafor is among the most inefficient in the entire league?
Duncan hasn't been a post-centric player for the better part of a decade. The lazy narrative is, big guy scores, ergo player is a post player. He CAN post up in his latter years but the Spurs rarely went to it unless it was a super ideal matchup. He played much more off the ball. Throw defense/rebounding into the mix and we're basically looking at 2 totally different players.
Did he post up earlier in his career?
Why were Shaq and Olajuwon so efficient in the post when the post-up is supposedly the most inefficient play in basketball-- was it just that it was a different era, or were those two just so good in the post that they were exceptions to the rule?
Rules were different. It's to easy now to clog the middle. Even the act of getting the ball into the post now is so much harder since they allow double teams off the ball. Combine that with the cheap incidental contact calls whistled on the perimeter and it's easier to get productive possessions out of your ball handlers.
So would Shaq even be considered a good player if he played today? Why was someone like Zach Randolph so effective on the Grizzlies? (Sorry for so many questions.)
I don't have an answer for the former. A guy like Shaq would have adjusted his game most likely. Dwight gets whistled for a lot of offensive calls that personally I think are cheap calls. Two hands on ball, turn toward the basket in the post and guys flop behind him. To me that's not a foul, it's a legitimate post move and they definitely wouldn't have called the offensive foul a decade ago. As far as Zach Randolph...is he really that effective though? _________________ KOBE
Joined: 24 Dec 2007 Posts: 35812 Location: Santa Clarita, CA (Hell) ->>>>>Ithaca, NY -≥≥≥≥≥Berkeley, CA
Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 5:04 pm Post subject:
jonnybravo wrote:
CandyCanes wrote:
jonnybravo wrote:
CandyCanes wrote:
jonnybravo wrote:
CandyCanes wrote:
jonnybravo wrote:
CandyCanes wrote:
I've never seen someone's stock drop as quickly as Okafor's. He went from being seen as the next Tim Duncan to being some scrub who nobody wants.
I was saying it during the draft. The association to TD had to do with their appearance, facial demeanor, position. The totality of their games were nothing alike.
That's interesting-- until just now, I never realized that they actually look pretty similar. What parts of Duncan's offense are superior to Okafor's, other than his jumpshot? As in, why is it that Duncan was such an efficient player on offense while Okafor is among the most inefficient in the entire league?
Duncan hasn't been a post-centric player for the better part of a decade. The lazy narrative is, big guy scores, ergo player is a post player. He CAN post up in his latter years but the Spurs rarely went to it unless it was a super ideal matchup. He played much more off the ball. Throw defense/rebounding into the mix and we're basically looking at 2 totally different players.
Did he post up earlier in his career?
Why were Shaq and Olajuwon so efficient in the post when the post-up is supposedly the most inefficient play in basketball-- was it just that it was a different era, or were those two just so good in the post that they were exceptions to the rule?
Rules were different. It's to easy now to clog the middle. Even the act of getting the ball into the post now is so much harder since they allow double teams off the ball. Combine that with the cheap incidental contact calls whistled on the perimeter and it's easier to get productive possessions out of your ball handlers.
So would Shaq even be considered a good player if he played today? Why was someone like Zach Randolph so effective on the Grizzlies? (Sorry for so many questions.)
I don't have an answer for the former. A guy like Shaq would have adjusted his game most likely. Dwight gets whistled for a lot of offensive calls that personally I think are cheap calls. Two hands on ball, turn toward the basket in the post and guys flop behind him. To me that's not a foul, it's a legitimate post move and they definitely wouldn't have called the offensive foul a decade ago. As far as Zach Randolph...is he really that effective though?
Well, before he got there, the Grizzlies were a perennial lottery/first round exit team with Pau. With Randolph, they became a perennial 50+ win team instead. _________________ Damian Lillard shatters Dwight Coward's championship dreams:
Going back to Oak, there are def teams that could use an off-the-bench scorer. But not sure if he has value as a full-time starter for a team that wants to win. His scoring is not a problem but his defensive woes make him a tough sell as a starter particularly from the center position.
It seems there are many more wing starters who are poor defenders than at the center position today. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals
He just came into the league at the wrong era. He would've been perfect in the late 90's and early 2000's.
Yeah. It's interesting so many of the dominating young big men have much more versatile skills and are better defenders (Embiid, KAT, Porky, Turner...Jokic has no D ).
I'd be interested to know who trained Oak and why they didn't diversify his game more to include an emphasis on defense. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals
Embiid coming back and making it literally his team with his excellent performances makes it pretty much a no-brainer which C the 76ers will keep for the future. I hope with this new generation of centers, like KAT, Embiid, Porzingis will finally bring back the center position in the NBA.
He just came into the league at the wrong era. He would've been perfect in the late 90's and early 2000's.
Yeah. It's interesting so many of the dominating young big men have much more versatile skills and are better defenders (Embiid, KAT, Porky, Turner...Jokic has no D ).
I'd be interested to know who trained Oak and why they didn't diversify his game more to include an emphasis on defense.
He succeeded in high school and college and cruise by based on pure size and athletic ability. I tell his high school coach was giving much thought to his NBA future, and by the time you reach College they were just figuring how to cover his deficiencies since he was a one-and-done.
HIs big problem is that he's just laxidasical and doesn't care about defense. That's a hard attitude to counter, and coaches at the lower level have to be highly invested in the players future long after they are gone to even try to do something about it.
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