Laker Film Room (Pg. 46 - Video: Lakers Lose to Suns as Defense Begins to Show Cracks)
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tox
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 10:00 am    Post subject:

akk7 wrote:
Need the written form of that 3 hour podcast. I have no idea how I will sit through 3 hours and pay attention for all of it and catch all the details.

I'm scared.

Download the MP3 and put it on 2x speed. Only is 1 1/2 hours.
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 10:10 am    Post subject:

tox wrote:
akk7 wrote:
Need the written form of that 3 hour podcast. I have no idea how I will sit through 3 hours and pay attention for all of it and catch all the details.

I'm scared.

Download the MP3 and put it on 2x speed. Only is 1 1/2 hours.


can you really listen @ 2x? Once I get over 1.4x, moves too fast for me
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tox
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 18, 2017 10:50 am    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:
tox wrote:
akk7 wrote:
Need the written form of that 3 hour podcast. I have no idea how I will sit through 3 hours and pay attention for all of it and catch all the details.

I'm scared.

Download the MP3 and put it on 2x speed. Only is 1 1/2 hours.


can you really listen @ 2x? Once I get over 1.4x, moves too fast for me


Oh yeah. I used to listen to podcasted lectures at 2x or even 2.5-3x (if they spoke slowly enough) so I'm used to hearing sped up audio. I didn't consider that it might be too fast for others.
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GoldenThroat
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 9:04 am    Post subject:

In the debut episode of Laker Film Room Classic, I took a look at the game where Kobe shut down Allen Iverson.


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tox
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 10:43 am    Post subject:

^Great work GT. Really enjoyed this one.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 2:22 pm    Post subject:

Yeah it was awesome!
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 5:58 pm    Post subject:

One of my fave games. Cutheon and I were just talking about this the other day.

Nice breakdown, GT!
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 8:53 pm    Post subject:

GoldenThroat wrote:
In the debut episode of Laker Film Room Classic, I took a look at the game where Kobe shut down Allen Iverson.



Awesome. I miss young Kobe's D. I hope you're doing a video like this for one of the young core sooner than later ... Defense wins games.
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 10:09 pm    Post subject:

I forgot about that last possession, Kobe was a defensive beast.
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Jakanzi
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 11:46 pm    Post subject:

tox wrote:
The stats about Tarik's defensive PPP are vindicating as a champion of all things Tarik


I found myself pretty skeptical of that part of the podcast. If nothing else because we've seen Black be extremely foul prone and undisciplined with his hands. If you pick up two fouls in a quarter and the defense suffers the rest of the way because the opposing team gets into the bonus faster that seems to me it might actually make his defensive metrics look better (since he's not on the floor when the defense is worse) despite him having contributed to it.
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GoldenThroat
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PostPosted: Thu Apr 20, 2017 11:50 pm    Post subject:

Jakanzi wrote:
tox wrote:
The stats about Tarik's defensive PPP are vindicating as a champion of all things Tarik


I found myself pretty skeptical of that part of the podcast. If nothing else because we've seen Black be extremely foul prone and undisciplined with his hands. If you pick up two fouls in a quarter and the defense suffers the rest of the way because the opposing team gets into the bonus faster that seems to me it might actually make his defensive metrics look better (since he's not on the floor when the defense is worse) despite him having contributed to it.


This is a gap in PPP data. Unless it's a shooting foul or they're already in the bonus, this wouldn't be measured.

That said, big picture I still think Black is a good defender.
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Jakanzi
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 12:04 am    Post subject:

GoldenThroat wrote:
Jakanzi wrote:
tox wrote:
The stats about Tarik's defensive PPP are vindicating as a champion of all things Tarik


I found myself pretty skeptical of that part of the podcast. If nothing else because we've seen Black be extremely foul prone and undisciplined with his hands. If you pick up two fouls in a quarter and the defense suffers the rest of the way because the opposing team gets into the bonus faster that seems to me it might actually make his defensive metrics look better (since he's not on the floor when the defense is worse) despite him having contributed to it.


This is a gap in PPP data. Unless it's a shooting foul or they're already in the bonus, this wouldn't be measured.

That said, big picture I still think Black is a good defender.


Oh I agree that Black is good, I mean to say I was skeptical of the idea that Black was one of the best defenders in the league as the numbers were suggesting. Just felt like to me that nearly every game where Black was in the starting lineup he got into early foul trouble. For the minutes he's on the floor, especially against bench units, he's awesome.
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tox
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 12:33 am    Post subject:

Jakanzi wrote:
tox wrote:
The stats about Tarik's defensive PPP are vindicating as a champion of all things Tarik


I found myself pretty skeptical of that part of the podcast. If nothing else because we've seen Black be extremely foul prone and undisciplined with his hands. If you pick up two fouls in a quarter and the defense suffers the rest of the way because the opposing team gets into the bonus faster that seems to me it might actually make his defensive metrics look better (since he's not on the floor when the defense is worse) despite him having contributed to it.

Like GT says, the Synergy defensive data isn't perfect. I don't think he's actually the best defensive player in the league lol, but if a half-decent stat says you're the best at something, that probably means you're at least pretty good at it.

DRPM has Tarik at +1.96, which would put him as the #20 defensive center in the league (and a far cry from Gobert's +5.99). So yeah, for a backup C I'd say that's pretty good.

Although the edge case you bring up of him getting the team into foul trouble is interesting because DRPM explicitly cannot capture something like that either. I don't actually think that really has a big effect one way or another, but it's a pretty cool point to bring up. I never considered it.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 2:22 am    Post subject:

tox wrote:
Jakanzi wrote:
tox wrote:
The stats about Tarik's defensive PPP are vindicating as a champion of all things Tarik


I found myself pretty skeptical of that part of the podcast. If nothing else because we've seen Black be extremely foul prone and undisciplined with his hands. If you pick up two fouls in a quarter and the defense suffers the rest of the way because the opposing team gets into the bonus faster that seems to me it might actually make his defensive metrics look better (since he's not on the floor when the defense is worse) despite him having contributed to it.

Like GT says, the Synergy defensive data isn't perfect. I don't think he's actually the best defensive player in the league lol, but if a half-decent stat says you're the best at something, that probably means you're at least pretty good at it.

DRPM has Tarik at +1.96, which would put him as the #20 defensive center in the league (and a far cry from Gobert's +5.99). So yeah, for a backup C I'd say that's pretty good.

Although the edge case you bring up of him getting the team into foul trouble is interesting because DRPM explicitly cannot capture something like that either. I don't actually think that really has a big effect one way or another, but it's a pretty cool point to bring up. I never considered it.


There's also the case where if a player commits a shooting foul while he's in foul trouble and he gets subbed out either during or before the free throws are shot, which helps the fouling player "avoid" the hit to his plus/minus for something that was at least partially his fault. Maybe plus/minus accounts for this already, I'm not entirely sure.

But yea big picture, I doubt either of those things have a significant effect on the numbers. The more direct impact I should have emphasized is just how it affect Tarik's ability to stay on the floor. He's a decent enough offensive center so it's really this defensive weakness that prevents him from being a viable starter. So even a below average starting center like Mozgov has probably worse metrics across the board defensively but if he can stay on the floor against other starting centers and Black can't, how do you account for that when comparing the two?

I guess if I tried to nail down what I'm trying to say more quantitatively, the synergy stats put Tarik as like a 99th percentile defender. He's about 90th or so according to RPM. A normal grain of salt skepticism towards these numbers would say maybe Tarik is actually in the 80-85th percentile. But my sense is that the fouling is such a weakness that it knocks him even more than that, closer to maybe a 65-75 percentile range, which still ranks as good and above average overall among all players but is more consistent with the notion that he has limitations that make him a backup.
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tox
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 10:04 am    Post subject:

Jakanzi wrote:

There's also the case where if a player commits a shooting foul while he's in foul trouble and he gets subbed out either during or before the free throws are shot, which helps the fouling player "avoid" the hit to his plus/minus for something that was at least partially his fault. Maybe plus/minus accounts for this already, I'm not entirely sure.

But yea big picture, I doubt either of those things have a significant effect on the numbers. The more direct impact I should have emphasized is just how it affect Tarik's ability to stay on the floor. He's a decent enough offensive center so it's really this defensive weakness that prevents him from being a viable starter. So even a below average starting center like Mozgov has probably worse metrics across the board defensively but if he can stay on the floor against other starting centers and Black can't, how do you account for that when comparing the two?

I guess if I tried to nail down what I'm trying to say more quantitatively, the synergy stats put Tarik as like a 99th percentile defender. He's about 90th or so according to RPM. A normal grain of salt skepticism towards these numbers would say maybe Tarik is actually in the 80-85th percentile. But my sense is that the fouling is such a weakness that it knocks him even more than that, closer to maybe a 65-75 percentile range, which still ranks as good and above average overall among all players but is more consistent with the notion that he has limitations that make him a backup.

Yeah I can agree with all of that. I honestly think Tarik is a career backup. He was terrible when he started for a few games this season. But he's a very good backup which is still valuable. For me, despite the fouling concerns, his Synergy & RPM numbers just show me when he's on the court he's pretty good. But you're right that fouling limits the extent to how much he can play.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 11:17 am    Post subject:

My brother chopped up the Corey Brewer parts of our podcast and made this. I'm (bleep)' dying.


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 12:52 pm    Post subject:

COREY BREWER IS THE GREATEST PLAYER OF ALL TIME
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 3:45 pm    Post subject:

Kobe's one on one defense was the most underrated aspect of his game. There will only be one Bean.
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PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 4:07 pm    Post subject:

that ending


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PostPosted: Fri Apr 21, 2017 4:22 pm    Post subject:

tox wrote:
^Great work GT. Really enjoyed this one.



Really great catch GT....


Tks
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PostPosted: Sat Apr 22, 2017 7:26 am    Post subject:

LakerLogic wrote:
I forgot about that last possession, Kobe was a defensive beast.


My favorite kobe defense game was game 7 against portland he shut down like 3 or 4 different players that day.
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 12:05 am    Post subject:

New Podcast:

Paul George & Blake Griffin
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 5:59 am    Post subject:

GoldenThroat wrote:
New Podcast:

Paul George & Blake Griffin


only listened to first half on drive to office....but you and I agree 100% on how to handle the PG-13 issue.
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 8:22 am    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:
GoldenThroat wrote:
New Podcast:

Paul George & Blake Griffin


only listened to first half on drive to office....but you and I agree 100% on how to handle the PG-13 issue.


Listened to first 15 min so far; I agree with everything that GT said. Makes no sense to trade for PG-13 for what it would take.
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PostPosted: Tue Apr 25, 2017 9:28 am    Post subject:

GoldenThroat wrote:
New Podcast:

Paul George & Blake Griffin


is it on iTunes podcast?

thanks
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