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sAM sHILE
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 28, 2017 9:19 am    Post subject:

GoldenThroat wrote:
akk7 wrote:
Hate to rehash this, but I cannot buy when Tania says Jeanie brought in Magic to be a liaison between her and the front office. She thought his past relationship with Mitch would allow for Mitch to trust Magic and keep him in the loop.

That is absolute bull. Magic was on First Take and every other ESPN show saying I obviously want to run the Lakers and I want to be president.

He was openly saying he wants their job

On the Russell stuff, it was interesting to hear that the Lakers have been wanting to move on for months. I kind of agreed with Darius that the Lakers had their minds made up on him and were basically looking for reasons to keep him rather than the other way around. Plus, he didn't fit in with their ultimate plan of LBJ + PG.

I also didn't get the toughen him up thing. I wish you would've asked did he do something prior to the benching to get him benched, because the toughen him up thing just sounds PC and actually doesn't make much sense. Why would anyone be cool with being benched not based on merit, but to get "toughed up." There was definitely something else.


Honestly, the Russell discussion wasn't planned, so I was just thinking on the fly as best as I could. As soon as she said (paraphrasing) "they were looking to move Russell for a while and the fact that they found a taker for Mozgov's contract was a bonus" made me be like....wait, what?!?! So we went down that road as best as we could on the fly, and probably missed a couple of questions along the way.

I felt like it provided me some closure on the deal though. Even if I REALLY disagreed with some components of it (they didn't consider playing them together?!?!?), I feel like I have a good idea of what happened now.

IMO, together would have provided a porous backcourt defense. Hence, we have KCP to provide balance
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 28, 2017 9:37 am    Post subject:

Really like Kuzma's potential as an on-ball defender.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 28, 2017 9:45 am    Post subject:

sAM sHILE wrote:
IMO, together would have provided a porous backcourt defense. Hence, we have KCP to provide balance


Perhaps, but the same thing would have been said of Steph Curry & Klay Thompson at 21 at 19 years old.

KCP is here for a year, at $18M. We don't really "have" KCP, at least in terms of him being on the roster the next time we have a shot at contending. And if we do, it'll likely mean that we failed to get a max FA and we'll be paying him a LOT more money than we'd be paying Russell.

Russell makes more than $10M less than KCP and we'd have his Bird Rights so that we could go over the cap to re-sign him if necessary. KCP is a good player, but neither of those things are true with him and they matter.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 28, 2017 10:17 pm    Post subject:

sAM sHILE wrote:
LakerSD wrote:
Interesting stuff. It's pretty clear to me that:

1. The lakers saw issues with DLO off court (teammate, keeps to himself, etc.)
2. They want to play fast/Luke system and Lonzo fits that better.
3. They just don't see DLO as a SG for whatever reason.

Tbh, both parties are at fault. The lakers didn't have the right culture/environment and that created issues that were exacerbated by DLO and his personality. I do think DLO will get it together in Brooklyn. He will learn from his mistakes and I'm sure the lakers know their own mistakes from culture/environment perspective and are working to rectify that.


Its about defense. if DLO stayed to play SG, the backcourt would be a porous. He needs to play with a good defender in the backcourt. KCP provides that for Ball


Having watched Ball play defense in the SL, its painfully obvious he is not yet there and will struggle there in his rookie year. Dlo, probably an average defender, would not have been able to keep up with the quicker guards. Pairing them would have likely resulted in the worst defensice backcourt in the league. Yes, offensively I think it would have worked, but defense is what wins games. And the lakers totally lucked out in getting KCP, for which there was not really a real plan for the SG position. The FO was very lucky he became available, and he likely fits way better than Dlo could have.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 28, 2017 10:23 pm    Post subject:

GoldenThroat wrote:
sAM sHILE wrote:
IMO, together would have provided a porous backcourt defense. Hence, we have KCP to provide balance


Perhaps, but the same thing would have been said of Steph Curry & Klay Thompson at 21 at 19 years old.

KCP is here for a year, at $18M. We don't really "have" KCP, at least in terms of him being on the roster the next time we have a shot at contending. And if we do, it'll likely mean that we failed to get a max FA and we'll be paying him a LOT more money than we'd be paying Russell.

Russell makes more than $10M less than KCP and we'd have his Bird Rights so that we could go over the cap to re-sign him if necessary. KCP is a good player, but neither of those things are true with him and they matter.


As always, you bring up some good points. But I really can't see either Dlo or Ball being even close to Klay defensively, ever. Not that thats what either needs to be, but it would take some time (a few years) for either to develop into good defenders. And yet, it still may have been worth waiting a couple months into the season before making the decision to trade Dlo. I think the deal they made would have been there in December too.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 28, 2017 10:32 pm    Post subject:

GoldenThroat wrote:


Do you see Kuzma as more of a 3 now with the potential to be a stretch 4 as well? The reason I'm asking is because a lot of the issues you highlighted seem like they wouldn't be as big of an issue at the 3 to start his career.

I love his potential as a 4 next to Ingram, but I think I like the idea of keeping randle, nance and Kuzma more and I believe it's possible if Kuzma gets most of his minutes at the 3.
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PostPosted: Fri Jul 28, 2017 10:58 pm    Post subject:

PICKnPOP wrote:
GoldenThroat wrote:


Do you see Kuzma as more of a 3 now with the potential to be a stretch 4 as well? The reason I'm asking is because a lot of the issues you highlighted seem like they wouldn't be as big of an issue at the 3 to start his career.

I love his potential as a 4 next to Ingram, but I think I like the idea of keeping randle, nance and Kuzma more and I believe it's possible if Kuzma gets most of his minutes at the 3.


I'm a lot more okay with Kuzma at the 3 than I was at the start of Summer League. I still think he's primarily a 4, but I don't think he'd suffer much from playing the 3 instead. I'm usually VERY much against guys playing one position smaller than their natural position, but he's an exception to that rule.
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PostPosted: Sat Jul 29, 2017 4:24 pm    Post subject:

GoldenThroat wrote:
PICKnPOP wrote:
GoldenThroat wrote:


Do you see Kuzma as more of a 3 now with the potential to be a stretch 4 as well? The reason I'm asking is because a lot of the issues you highlighted seem like they wouldn't be as big of an issue at the 3 to start his career.

I love his potential as a 4 next to Ingram, but I think I like the idea of keeping randle, nance and Kuzma more and I believe it's possible if Kuzma gets most of his minutes at the 3.


I'm a lot more okay with Kuzma at the 3 than I was at the start of Summer League. I still think he's primarily a 4, but I don't think he'd suffer much from playing the 3 instead. I'm usually VERY much against guys playing one position smaller than their natural position, but he's an exception to that rule.


Nice. Yeah I'm all about positionleas basketball. If I could get away with playing Julius at the 1 I would do it just to create the mismatch. Kuzma is quickly becoming one of my favorites because of his versatility.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 30, 2017 6:14 am    Post subject:

foreveralakerfan wrote:
GoldenThroat wrote:
sAM sHILE wrote:
IMO, together would have provided a porous backcourt defense. Hence, we have KCP to provide balance


Perhaps, but the same thing would have been said of Steph Curry & Klay Thompson at 21 at 19 years old.

KCP is here for a year, at $18M. We don't really "have" KCP, at least in terms of him being on the roster the next time we have a shot at contending. And if we do, it'll likely mean that we failed to get a max FA and we'll be paying him a LOT more money than we'd be paying Russell.

Russell makes more than $10M less than KCP and we'd have his Bird Rights so that we could go over the cap to re-sign him if necessary. KCP is a good player, but neither of those things are true with him and they matter.


As always, you bring up some good points. But I really can't see either Dlo or Ball being even close to Klay defensively, ever. Not that thats what either needs to be, but it would take some time (a few years) for either to develop into good defenders. And yet, it still may have been worth waiting a couple months into the season before making the decision to trade Dlo. I think the deal they made would have been there in December too.


Yeah, I agree.

What I got from interview though was that Lakers just wanted DAR gone, for whatever reason. in order to give a completely fresh start to Lonzo.

The interview kind of gave me closure on the whole DAR trade. Not because I necessarily agree with or understand all the reasoning, but because it seems like for whatever reason the fit was really not working for either side.

From the interview, it seemed like everyone in building had reached a decision about DAR, and it was not about if, or even when, but how.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 30, 2017 8:40 am    Post subject:

GoldenThroat wrote:
PICKnPOP wrote:
GoldenThroat wrote:


Do you see Kuzma as more of a 3 now with the potential to be a stretch 4 as well? The reason I'm asking is because a lot of the issues you highlighted seem like they wouldn't be as big of an issue at the 3 to start his career.

I love his potential as a 4 next to Ingram, but I think I like the idea of keeping randle, nance and Kuzma more and I believe it's possible if Kuzma gets most of his minutes at the 3.


I'm a lot more okay with Kuzma at the 3 than I was at the start of Summer League. I still think he's primarily a 4, but I don't think he'd suffer much from playing the 3 instead. I'm usually VERY much against guys playing one position smaller than their natural position, but he's an exception to that rule.


I'm at the point of where I just say, whatever gets him on the floor.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 30, 2017 8:45 am    Post subject:

GoldenThroat wrote:
PICKnPOP wrote:
GoldenThroat wrote:


Do you see Kuzma as more of a 3 now with the potential to be a stretch 4 as well? The reason I'm asking is because a lot of the issues you highlighted seem like they wouldn't be as big of an issue at the 3 to start his career.

I love his potential as a 4 next to Ingram, but I think I like the idea of keeping randle, nance and Kuzma more and I believe it's possible if Kuzma gets most of his minutes at the 3.


I'm a lot more okay with Kuzma at the 3 than I was at the start of Summer League. I still think he's primarily a 4, but I don't think he'd suffer much from playing the 3 instead. I'm usually VERY much against guys playing one position smaller than their natural position, but he's an exception to that rule.


Definitely. I'm imagining a lineup that would have a potentially great defense/offense balance.

I'm anxious to see:

Ball
KCP
Kuzma (subbing for BI in this instance at the 3)
Nance
Lopez- can he stay on the floor when teams go small?
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 30, 2017 8:56 am    Post subject:

Quote:

Lopez- can he stay on the floor when teams go small?


Footspeed would be an issue. Nance would have to pick off the lead transition frontcourt player before a switch.

Lopez's boxing out leading to higher defensive rebounding percentages help out A LOT with smaller lineups.

But offensively? Absolutely.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 30, 2017 3:38 pm    Post subject:

GoldenThroat wrote:
sAM sHILE wrote:
IMO, together would have provided a porous backcourt defense. Hence, we have KCP to provide balance


Perhaps, but the same thing would have been said of Steph Curry & Klay Thompson at 21 at 19 years old.

KCP is here for a year, at $18M. We don't really "have" KCP, at least in terms of him being on the roster the next time we have a shot at contending. And if we do, it'll likely mean that we failed to get a max FA and we'll be paying him a LOT more money than we'd be paying Russell.

Russell makes more than $10M less than KCP and we'd have his Bird Rights so that we could go over the cap to re-sign him if necessary. KCP is a good player, but neither of those things are true with him and they matter.


I agree the notion that they would have been poor defensively this year is beside the point. DLO/Lonzo had a higher upside than Lonzo/Pope and would have given us one more year to work things out. It was essentially Magic saying I'm taking my shot in 2018 instead of the growing from within approach with a cap plan that would have had some space in '18 and some in '19.

Next year Pope will cost us a similar amount as Russell and Mozgov would have. Sans 2Max if you resign Pope that's probably true for '18-19 as well so there's no real 'cap cost' of the deal at that point. But you did lose some upside potential. In 19-20 Russell's cap hold is $21 million because he was the second pick and the new CBA closed the loop hole pretty well so his bird rights don't provide the same kind of cap management they used to. And that would be if you chose not to extend him which would have been dicey with Lonzo taking over as the alpha.

Magic saw a rich free agent class, limited cap room in the market, is supremely confident in his ability to recruit guys and there's a lot of smoke around a few of the top players wanting to come to LA. Dr. Buss always said it's better to make your move a year too early than a year too late. This could be a case of that. They got lucky with Pope so they don't necessarily get full credit for that as part of their planning, but their decisions did make that possible. Pope is a better natural fit next to Lonzo in some ways as a pretty good defender who can do some things with the ball in his hands but doesn't need it to have an impact.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 30, 2017 4:01 pm    Post subject:

Laker's Fan wrote:
I agree the notion that they would have been poor defensively this year is beside the point. DLO/Lonzo had a higher upside than Lonzo/Pope and would have given us one more year to work things out. It was essentially Magic saying I'm taking my shot in 2018 instead of the growing from within approach with a cap plan that would have had some space in '18 and some in '19.

Next year Pope will cost us a similar amount as Russell and Mozgov would have. Sans 2Max if you resign Pope that's probably true for '18-19 as well so there's no real 'cap cost' of the deal at that point. But you did lose some upside potential. In 19-20 Russell's cap hold is $21 million because he was the second pick and the new CBA closed the loop hole pretty well so his bird rights don't provide the same kind of cap management they used to. And that would be if you chose not to extend him which would have been dicey with Lonzo taking over as the alpha.

Magic saw a rich free agent class, limited cap room in the market, is supremely confident in his ability to recruit guys and there's a lot of smoke around a few of the top players wanting to come to LA. Dr. Buss always said it's better to make your move a year too early than a year too late. This could be a case of that. They got lucky with Pope so they don't necessarily get full credit for that as part of their planning, but their decisions did make that possible. Pope is a better natural fit next to Lonzo in some ways as a pretty good defender who can do some things with the ball in his hands but doesn't need it to have an impact.


That's a pretty good summary of the situation, on top of the obvious personality issues that they had with him. It really all comes down to 2018 Free Agency, as to whether or not this was a good idea. If we find ourselves inking Brook Lopez or KCP to long term deals because we whiffed on the big time guys, I'm going to be very upset.
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PostPosted: Sun Jul 30, 2017 7:00 pm    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
GoldenThroat wrote:
PICKnPOP wrote:
GoldenThroat wrote:


Do you see Kuzma as more of a 3 now with the potential to be a stretch 4 as well? The reason I'm asking is because a lot of the issues you highlighted seem like they wouldn't be as big of an issue at the 3 to start his career.

I love his potential as a 4 next to Ingram, but I think I like the idea of keeping randle, nance and Kuzma more and I believe it's possible if Kuzma gets most of his minutes at the 3.


I'm a lot more okay with Kuzma at the 3 than I was at the start of Summer League. I still think he's primarily a 4, but I don't think he'd suffer much from playing the 3 instead. I'm usually VERY much against guys playing one position smaller than their natural position, but he's an exception to that rule.


I'm at the point of where I just say, whatever gets him on the floor.


Exactly. Curious about how they used him at small ball center during summer league though. I'm wondering if that's something they envision him doing in the future as well.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2017 9:06 am    Post subject:


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PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2017 9:24 am    Post subject:

His length is so crazy

Pete, I have an unrelated question. Why is the college 3pt line shorter than the NBA's? I say this because, if the goal is to get players "NBA ready" then why not make the line the same? I never understood that logic. We saw how it affected the players during Summer League, we saw 6 or 7 times where they stepped out of bounds subconsciously.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2017 10:36 am    Post subject:

True Lakers Fan wrote:
His length is so crazy

Pete, I have an unrelated question. Why is the college 3pt line shorter than the NBA's? I say this because, if the goal is to get players "NBA ready" then why not make the line the same? I never understood that logic. We saw how it affected the players during Summer League, we saw 6 or 7 times where they stepped out of bounds subconsciously.


Roughly 98% of NCAA players don't have a career in basketball after college, let alone the NBA. The college game is already bogged down, an even lower scoring college game would be too dreadful to watch.
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PostPosted: Mon Jul 31, 2017 5:15 pm    Post subject:

GoldenThroat wrote:


Very nicely done. I wish Ingram and the staff would see this video.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 03, 2017 11:10 am    Post subject:

Just hit 10K followers on Twitter. Thanks to all of you guys for your support since the beginning. Big things ahead and in the works.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 03, 2017 11:43 am    Post subject:

GoldenThroat wrote:
Just hit 10K followers on Twitter. Thanks to all of you guys for your support since the beginning. Big things ahead and in the works.


I will say i was one of your earliest Twitter followers.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 03, 2017 12:56 pm    Post subject:

GT - got a question for you.

When I watch KK play, he reminds me a ton of Robert Horry - tall, not too physical, very good spot up shooter from deep, not the best going to the basket and finishing, solid defender (especially against 3's or not over-powering 4's). And I think if he is like Horry, he would be a great addition to the team. But I never hear this comparison.

Do you see this as well or am I just missing something?
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 03, 2017 1:53 pm    Post subject:

GoldenThroat wrote:
Just hit 10K followers on Twitter. Thanks to all of you guys for your support since the beginning. Big things ahead and in the works.


let me hold like 3.5 followers right quick fam
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 03, 2017 2:00 pm    Post subject:

foreveralakerfan wrote:
GT - got a question for you.

When I watch KK play, he reminds me a ton of Robert Horry - tall, not too physical, very good spot up shooter from deep, not the best going to the basket and finishing, solid defender (especially against 3's or not over-powering 4's). And I think if he is like Horry, he would be a great addition to the team. But I never hear this comparison.

Do you see this as well or am I just missing something?


I've actually heard the Horry comparison a few times and it's probably my favorite one.
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PostPosted: Thu Aug 03, 2017 2:05 pm    Post subject:

GoldenThroat wrote:
Just hit 10K followers on Twitter. Thanks to all of you guys for your support since the beginning. Big things ahead and in the works.


Congrats. I think the main takeaway I got out of your LFR project was that you slid into someone's DMs and got a girl out of it.

All cause of LFR. I see you.

Congratulations again. I always make sure to check out your vids and twitter.
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