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petergr Star Player
Joined: 03 May 2012 Posts: 1525 Location: kiki
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Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 2:34 pm Post subject: Kevin Pelton's sophomore rankings: D'Angelo and Larry Nance Jr in top-10 |
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Kevin Pelton is doing his annual rankings of the rookies, sophomores, juniors etc based on future potential.
1) KAT
2) Porzi
3) Jokic
4) Turner
5) D'Angello
Booker is at 8, Larry Nance is at 8. Okafor and Mudiay are out of top-10.
Prior to the draft, he had KAT as 1 and D'lo & Porzi tied at 2. He was also high on Turner. Don't remember the projection on Jokic. He was quite low on Okafor and Mudiay prior to the draft.
So, Lakers draft looking very good. It will be perfect if Russel can jump into the top-3. |
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Mike@LG Moderator
Joined: 10 Apr 2001 Posts: 65135 Location: Orange County, CA
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Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 2:35 pm Post subject: Re: Kevin Pelton's sophomore rankings: D'Angelo and Larry Nance Jr in top-10 |
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petergr wrote: | Kevin Pelton is doing his annual rankings of the rookies, sophomores, juniors etc based on future potential.
1) KAT
2) Porzi
3) Jokic
4) Turner
5) D'Angello
Booker is at 8, Larry Nance is at 8. Okafor and Mudiay are out of top-10.
Prior to the draft, he had KAT as 1 and D'lo & Porzi tied at 2. He was also high on Turner. Don't remember the projection on Jokic. He was quite low on Okafor and Mudiay prior to the draft.
So, Lakers draft looking very good. It will be perfect if Russel can jump into the top-3. |
Link to article please? _________________ Resident Car Nut.
https://lakersdraft.substack.com/
I am not an economic advisor nor do I advise economic strategies or plans. |
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petergr Star Player
Joined: 03 May 2012 Posts: 1525 Location: kiki
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Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 2:40 pm Post subject: |
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I have always been a fan of Kevin Pelton since his basket ball prospectus days. He is by far the best among all writers at draft projections.
Some of his really successful hits in projecting really high upside compared to their draft position were :
1) Paul Milsap
2) Dramond Green
3) Jay Crawder
4) Steph Curry
5) Ty Lawson
6) Clint Capella
He also projected quite a few busts very well:
1) Evan Turner
2) Wesley Johnson
3) Acie Law
4) Rodney Stuckey
5) Austin Rivers
6) Anthony Benett
He had some misses like Nick Calathes, Adam Morisson...but has been stellar over the years. |
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petergr Star Player
Joined: 03 May 2012 Posts: 1525 Location: kiki
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Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 2:41 pm Post subject: Re: Kevin Pelton's sophomore rankings: D'Angelo and Larry Nance Jr in top-10 |
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Mike@LG wrote: | petergr wrote: | Kevin Pelton is doing his annual rankings of the rookies, sophomores, juniors etc based on future potential.
1) KAT
2) Porzi
3) Jokic
4) Turner
5) D'Angello
Booker is at 8, Larry Nance is at 8. Okafor and Mudiay are out of top-10.
Prior to the draft, he had KAT as 1 and D'lo & Porzi tied at 2. He was also high on Turner. Don't remember the projection on Jokic. He was quite low on Okafor and Mudiay prior to the draft.
So, Lakers draft looking very good. It will be perfect if Russel can jump into the top-3. |
Link to article please? |
Its an ESPN Insider article
http://www.espn.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/18491855/kristaps-porzingis-karl-anthony-towns-best-nba-sophomore-chad-ford-kevin-pelton-debate |
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Mike@LG Moderator
Joined: 10 Apr 2001 Posts: 65135 Location: Orange County, CA
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Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 2:42 pm Post subject: Re: Kevin Pelton's sophomore rankings: D'Angelo and Larry Nance Jr in top-10 |
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petergr wrote: | Mike@LG wrote: | petergr wrote: | Kevin Pelton is doing his annual rankings of the rookies, sophomores, juniors etc based on future potential.
1) KAT
2) Porzi
3) Jokic
4) Turner
5) D'Angello
Booker is at 8, Larry Nance is at 8. Okafor and Mudiay are out of top-10.
Prior to the draft, he had KAT as 1 and D'lo & Porzi tied at 2. He was also high on Turner. Don't remember the projection on Jokic. He was quite low on Okafor and Mudiay prior to the draft.
So, Lakers draft looking very good. It will be perfect if Russel can jump into the top-3. |
Link to article please? |
Its an ESPN Insider article
http://www.espn.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/18491855/kristaps-porzingis-karl-anthony-towns-best-nba-sophomore-chad-ford-kevin-pelton-debate |
Thank you. _________________ Resident Car Nut.
https://lakersdraft.substack.com/
I am not an economic advisor nor do I advise economic strategies or plans. |
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saetarubia Star Player
Joined: 06 Jul 2014 Posts: 6208
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Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 2:44 pm Post subject: |
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Thanks. I see DLo ending up 2nd or 3rd eventually. _________________ Showtime 2.0 |
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petergr Star Player
Joined: 03 May 2012 Posts: 1525 Location: kiki
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pjiddy Retired Number
Joined: 12 Dec 2005 Posts: 29077
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Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 3:20 pm Post subject: |
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Quote: | Pelton: D'Angelo Russell rounds out my top five. The No. 2 overall pick has made incremental progress in his second season, improving his assist rate from 4.2 per 36 minutes to 6.0, increasing his usage rate to 27.4 percent of the Lakers' plays (up from 24.2 percent) while maintaining his efficiency and improving on the defensive glass.
While Russell still has a long way to go in his development as a playmaker and defender, a look around the league shows the opposite story at point guard as at center: Russell is perhaps the league's best full-time point guard younger than age 25, which augurs well for his long-term development. |
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dcarter4kobe Franchise Player
Joined: 30 Jul 2005 Posts: 17680
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Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 3:39 pm Post subject: |
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Pelton has always been a pretty logical guy for the most part IMO. _________________ "He's a Zen master, so he can speak to you, and he doesn't need a microphone; you can hear him in your head, 'Ron, don't shoot, don't shoot.' Whatever, pow, three. I love the Zen, though." |
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yinoma2001 Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010 Posts: 119487
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Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 3:45 pm Post subject: |
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Nice. _________________ From 2-10 to the Western Conference Finals |
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petergr Star Player
Joined: 03 May 2012 Posts: 1525 Location: kiki
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Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 3:46 pm Post subject: |
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The chad ford guy in the same article....is almost commical
PELTON: D'Angelo Russell rounds out my top five. The No. 2 overall pick has made incremental progress in his second season, improving his assist rate from 4.2 per 36 minutes to 6.0, increasing his usage rate to 27.4 percent of the Lakers' plays (up from 24.2 percent) while maintaining his efficiency and improving on the defensive glass.
While Russell still has a long way to go in his development as a playmaker and defender, a look around the league shows the opposite story at point guard as at center: Russell is perhaps the league's best full-time point guard younger than age 25, which augurs well for his long-term development.
You've consistently favored Emmanuel Mudiay over Russell. Is that still the case?
FORD: No. Mudiay is still struggling and Russell is looking better. But neither is at No. 5 for me.
I know the advanced stats have not been kind to Devin Booker, but I still think he should make the top five on potential. He's a 20-year-old who is averaging better than 20 PPG, has the potential to be an elite shooter and shows an overall great feel for the game.
Booker is averaging 27.6 PPG in January and shooting 50 percent from 3. I know it's a small sample size and he has been streaky. I also know he hasn't brought a lot else to the table statistically. But I still see major upside from him and would bet he starts to figure out more ways to contribute down the road.
PELTON: I don't totally disagree on Booker. I think there's a gap between Booker and Russell, but I still have him sixth. Although Booker's defensive stats are unlikely to improve much, I do think he'll become a much more efficient offensive player than he is now when put in a more appropriate role alongside better shot creators.
Booker and former Kentucky teammate Trey Lyles are the two other one-and-done prospects currently performing around replacement level or better. The others in the group, including Mudiay and No. 3 pick Jahlil Okafor, are so far from replacement level right now that I'm not convinced they're going to get there.
As a result, I'm rounding out my top 10 with three lower-upside prospects who are contributing far more to their teams right now. |
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justsomelakerfan Franchise Player
Joined: 16 Jul 2016 Posts: 10939
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Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 3:48 pm Post subject: |
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dcarter4kobe wrote: | Pelton has always been a pretty logical guy for the most part IMO. |
His Randle takes... I understand at the time this summer being lower on him given his overall season, but he would straight up laugh whenever people asked about him on podcasts this summer. Had him as a bust. He went overboard with Randle, but I generally like his takes. _________________ Austin Reaves
Tweeter: @sarah_dotbiz
Last edited by justsomelakerfan on Tue Jan 17, 2017 3:48 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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petergr Star Player
Joined: 03 May 2012 Posts: 1525 Location: kiki
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Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 3:48 pm Post subject: |
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FORD: Mudiay continues to be awful and I think it's only a matter of time before Jamal Murray replaces him. But there are still enough glimpses of a good player there that I can't write Mudiay off yet.
As for Okafor, I wonder how all of us got it so wrong on him during most of the year before the draft. There was a time early in the draft process when he was the consensus No. 1 guy. Now it's clear Okafor isn't as good as NBA scouts and I thought he was in November and December of his freshman season at Duke.
But I don't think Okafor is as bad as he looks many nights in Philly either. He needs a change of scenery badly and all indications are that the Sixers are going to give it to him -- probably in the next month. On a different team in a different situation, I think Okafor can be a quality starter in the NBA someday.
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dcarter4kobe Franchise Player
Joined: 30 Jul 2005 Posts: 17680
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Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 3:51 pm Post subject: |
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justsomelakerfan wrote: | dcarter4kobe wrote: | Pelton has always been a pretty logical guy for the most part IMO. |
His Randle takes... I understand at the time this summer being lower on him given his overall season, but he would straight up laugh whenever people asked about him on podcasts this summer. Had him as a bust. He went overboard with Randle, but I generally like his takes. |
Another one of his hot takes lol
https://twitter.com/kpelton/status/749652385056714752 _________________ "He's a Zen master, so he can speak to you, and he doesn't need a microphone; you can hear him in your head, 'Ron, don't shoot, don't shoot.' Whatever, pow, three. I love the Zen, though." |
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petergr Star Player
Joined: 03 May 2012 Posts: 1525 Location: kiki
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Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 3:54 pm Post subject: |
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justsomelakerfan wrote: | dcarter4kobe wrote: | Pelton has always been a pretty logical guy for the most part IMO. |
His Randle takes... I understand at the time this summer being lower on him given his overall season, but he would straight up laugh whenever people asked about him on podcasts this summer. Had him as a bust. He went overboard with Randle, but I generally like his takes. |
He was down on Randle but as long as i followed him...his seems too nice a guy to completely write off any young player's development. It will be interesting to see how he projects Randle among the 3rd year players. He did not have him in the top-10 last year. |
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justsomelakerfan Franchise Player
Joined: 16 Jul 2016 Posts: 10939
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Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 3:56 pm Post subject: |
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petergr wrote: | justsomelakerfan wrote: | dcarter4kobe wrote: | Pelton has always been a pretty logical guy for the most part IMO. |
His Randle takes... I understand at the time this summer being lower on him given his overall season, but he would straight up laugh whenever people asked about him on podcasts this summer. Had him as a bust. He went overboard with Randle, but I generally like his takes. |
He was down on Randle but as long as i followed him...his seems too nice a guy to completely write off any young player's development. It will be interesting to see how he projects Randle among the 3rd year players. He did not have him in the top-10 last year. |
I remember earlier in the season he was starting to admit that Randle changed his game in ways he didn't anticipate he could. Props for owning up to it. Pelton has fair takes for the most part. _________________ Austin Reaves
Tweeter: @sarah_dotbiz |
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Treble Clef Franchise Player
Joined: 20 Nov 2012 Posts: 23913
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Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 4:02 pm Post subject: |
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pjiddy wrote: | Quote: | Pelton: D'Angelo Russell rounds out my top five. The No. 2 overall pick has made incremental progress in his second season, improving his assist rate from 4.2 per 36 minutes to 6.0, increasing his usage rate to 27.4 percent of the Lakers' plays (up from 24.2 percent) while maintaining his efficiency and improving on the defensive glass.
While Russell still has a long way to go in his development as a playmaker and defender, a look around the league shows the opposite story at point guard as at center: Russell is perhaps the league's best full-time point guard younger than age 25, which augurs well for his long-term development. |
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I cant see through all of the filters to see what he is really saying. Is he not better than some of the 25 year olds who aren't full time point guards yet? Or was Pelton just emphasizing that Russell is a young starting PG? |
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Omar Little Moderator
Joined: 02 May 2005 Posts: 90307 Location: Formerly Known As 24
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Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 4:09 pm Post subject: |
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Treble Clef wrote: | pjiddy wrote: | Quote: | Pelton: D'Angelo Russell rounds out my top five. The No. 2 overall pick has made incremental progress in his second season, improving his assist rate from 4.2 per 36 minutes to 6.0, increasing his usage rate to 27.4 percent of the Lakers' plays (up from 24.2 percent) while maintaining his efficiency and improving on the defensive glass.
While Russell still has a long way to go in his development as a playmaker and defender, a look around the league shows the opposite story at point guard as at center: Russell is perhaps the league's best full-time point guard younger than age 25, which augurs well for his long-term development. |
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I cant see through all of the filters to see what he is really saying. Is he not better than some of the 25 year olds who aren't full time point guards yet? Or was Pelton just emphasizing that Russell is a young starting PG? |
He's saying Russell is the best under 25 pg who plays significant minutes. BTW, Russell is the only non big in his top 5, meaning he's probably more valuable than some above him given the scarcity of top guards vs bigs. |
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Treble Clef Franchise Player
Joined: 20 Nov 2012 Posts: 23913
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Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 4:36 pm Post subject: |
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Omar Little wrote: | Treble Clef wrote: | pjiddy wrote: | Quote: | Pelton: D'Angelo Russell rounds out my top five. The No. 2 overall pick has made incremental progress in his second season, improving his assist rate from 4.2 per 36 minutes to 6.0, increasing his usage rate to 27.4 percent of the Lakers' plays (up from 24.2 percent) while maintaining his efficiency and improving on the defensive glass.
While Russell still has a long way to go in his development as a playmaker and defender, a look around the league shows the opposite story at point guard as at center: Russell is perhaps the league's best full-time point guard younger than age 25, which augurs well for his long-term development. |
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I cant see through all of the filters to see what he is really saying. Is he not better than some of the 25 year olds who aren't full time point guards yet? Or was Pelton just emphasizing that Russell is a young starting PG? |
He's saying Russell is the best under 25 pg who plays significant minutes. BTW, Russell is the only non big in his top 5, meaning he's probably more valuable than some above him given the scarcity of top guards vs bigs. |
Well I mean was the "significant minutes" filter a way of leaving non starters out of the comparison? Off the top of my head I can only think of a few starting point guards under 25. Mudiay, Brogdon, whoever Philly has, anyone else? I wasnt sure if he is calling him the best <25 pg period or if he thinks some <25 pg's who don't play as much are better and he filtered them out. |
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jonnybravo Retired Number
Joined: 21 Sep 2007 Posts: 30710
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Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 4:38 pm Post subject: |
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Omar Little wrote: | Treble Clef wrote: | pjiddy wrote: | Quote: | Pelton: D'Angelo Russell rounds out my top five. The No. 2 overall pick has made incremental progress in his second season, improving his assist rate from 4.2 per 36 minutes to 6.0, increasing his usage rate to 27.4 percent of the Lakers' plays (up from 24.2 percent) while maintaining his efficiency and improving on the defensive glass.
While Russell still has a long way to go in his development as a playmaker and defender, a look around the league shows the opposite story at point guard as at center: Russell is perhaps the league's best full-time point guard younger than age 25, which augurs well for his long-term development. |
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I cant see through all of the filters to see what he is really saying. Is he not better than some of the 25 year olds who aren't full time point guards yet? Or was Pelton just emphasizing that Russell is a young starting PG? |
He's saying Russell is the best under 25 pg who plays significant minutes. BTW, Russell is the only non big in his top 5, meaning he's probably more valuable than some above him given the scarcity of top guards vs bigs. |
I think guards are much more impactful but I don't agree that there are more quality bigs than guards. _________________ KOBE |
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LakerSD Franchise Player
Joined: 10 Nov 2016 Posts: 23788
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Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 4:40 pm Post subject: |
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Hope it works out that way or close to it. |
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greenfrog Retired Number
Joined: 02 Jan 2011 Posts: 36081 Location: 502 Bad Gateway
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Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 4:42 pm Post subject: |
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There doesn't seem to be any easy way to filter this, and Pelton's term "full time" is hard to pin, but here it is: link
In terms of TS%, I never would have expected him to be that close with Payton. |
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saetarubia Star Player
Joined: 06 Jul 2014 Posts: 6208
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Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 4:52 pm Post subject: |
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jonnybravo wrote: | Omar Little wrote: | Treble Clef wrote: | pjiddy wrote: | Quote: | Pelton: D'Angelo Russell rounds out my top five. The No. 2 overall pick has made incremental progress in his second season, improving his assist rate from 4.2 per 36 minutes to 6.0, increasing his usage rate to 27.4 percent of the Lakers' plays (up from 24.2 percent) while maintaining his efficiency and improving on the defensive glass.
While Russell still has a long way to go in his development as a playmaker and defender, a look around the league shows the opposite story at point guard as at center: Russell is perhaps the league's best full-time point guard younger than age 25, which augurs well for his long-term development. |
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I cant see through all of the filters to see what he is really saying. Is he not better than some of the 25 year olds who aren't full time point guards yet? Or was Pelton just emphasizing that Russell is a young starting PG? |
He's saying Russell is the best under 25 pg who plays significant minutes. BTW, Russell is the only non big in his top 5, meaning he's probably more valuable than some above him given the scarcity of top guards vs bigs. |
I think guards are much more impactful but I don't agree that there are more quality bigs than guards. |
I think he meant among U-25 players. There haven't been many good guards coming out in recent years. _________________ Showtime 2.0 |
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44TheLogo Star Player
Joined: 21 Feb 2009 Posts: 6364
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Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 4:54 pm Post subject: |
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greenfrog wrote: | There doesn't seem to be any easy way to filter this, and Pelton's term "full time" is hard to pin, but here it is: link |
you can filter by Games Started (GS) and put it > 30
that outputs the following: http://tinyurl.com/jjjw32p
I think we know that Beal, Lavine, and Booker aren't playing PG (Wall, Rubio, Bledsoe, respectively) so that just leaves Kyrie, Schroder, and Mudiay as the group he's being compared to. I think you can only really say that he's better than Mudiay of that group. |
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petergr Star Player
Joined: 03 May 2012 Posts: 1525 Location: kiki
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Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 5:04 pm Post subject: |
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jonnybravo wrote: | Omar Little wrote: | Treble Clef wrote: | pjiddy wrote: | Quote: | Pelton: D'Angelo Russell rounds out my top five. The No. 2 overall pick has made incremental progress in his second season, improving his assist rate from 4.2 per 36 minutes to 6.0, increasing his usage rate to 27.4 percent of the Lakers' plays (up from 24.2 percent) while maintaining his efficiency and improving on the defensive glass.
While Russell still has a long way to go in his development as a playmaker and defender, a look around the league shows the opposite story at point guard as at center: Russell is perhaps the league's best full-time point guard younger than age 25, which augurs well for his long-term development. |
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I cant see through all of the filters toe see what he is really saying. Is he not better than some of the 25 year olds who aren't full time point guards yet? Or was Pelton just emphasizing that Russell is a young starting PG? |
He's saying Russell is the best under 25 pg who plays significant minutes. BTW, Russell is the only non big in his top 5, meaning he's probably more valuable than some above him given the scarcity of top guards vs bigs. |
I think guards are much more impactful but I don't agree that there are more quality bigs than guards. |
I think the bar for a quality big has spiked up in the last couple of years.
Bigs like KAT, Porzi, Anthony Davis, Embiid, Jokic, Turner...have guard like offensive skills with potential for elite/good defense.
Traditional one dimensional big men like have become way too many and redundant. Its easy to find them for cheap:
Offense only: Al Jefferson, current day version of Pau, Okafor, Monroe
Deffense only: Hibbert, Asik
That's the reason why contracts of so called good centers like Asik, Monroe, Plumlee etc have become immovable. Noah, Mozgov will be there too.
There are plenty of teams with 2/3 starting caliber centers that cannot be on the floor at the same time...Pelicans, Sixers, Blazers, Bucks are all in this category. They are having a really hard time in moving one of the their big men. |
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