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greenfrog
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 Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 5:07 pm Post subject: |
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| 44TheLogo wrote: | | greenfrog wrote: | | There doesn't seem to be any easy way to filter this, and Pelton's term "full time" is hard to pin, but here it is: link |
you can filter by Games Started (GS) and put it > 30
that outputs the following: http://tinyurl.com/jjjw32p
I think we know that Beal, Lavine, and Booker aren't playing PG (Wall, Rubio, Bledsoe, respectively) so that just leaves Kyrie, Schroder, and Mudiay as the group he's being compared to. I think you can only really say that he's better than Mudiay of that group. |
I purposely didn't do that because I suspect by saying "full time" he meant to include bench players who play a lot of minutes (> 20 in my guess), as it's unlikely that many of the guys in this age group would be established starters. I also used a > 3 assist filter for the other nebulous term: point guard. |
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pjiddy
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| Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 5:16 pm Post subject: |
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| 44TheLogo wrote: | | greenfrog wrote: | | There doesn't seem to be any easy way to filter this, and Pelton's term "full time" is hard to pin, but here it is: link |
you can filter by Games Started (GS) and put it > 30
that outputs the following: http://tinyurl.com/jjjw32p
I think we know that Beal, Lavine, and Booker aren't playing PG (Wall, Rubio, Bledsoe, respectively) so that just leaves Kyrie, Schroder, and Mudiay as the group he's being compared to. I think you can only really say that he's better than Mudiay of that group. |
Clearly, he forgot Kyrie is under 25.
Otherwise, I take DLO over anyone on that list. |
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Omar Little
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| Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 5:29 pm Post subject: |
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| jonnybravo wrote: | | Omar Little wrote: | | Treble Clef wrote: | | pjiddy wrote: | | Quote: | Pelton: D'Angelo Russell rounds out my top five. The No. 2 overall pick has made incremental progress in his second season, improving his assist rate from 4.2 per 36 minutes to 6.0, increasing his usage rate to 27.4 percent of the Lakers' plays (up from 24.2 percent) while maintaining his efficiency and improving on the defensive glass.
While Russell still has a long way to go in his development as a playmaker and defender, a look around the league shows the opposite story at point guard as at center: Russell is perhaps the league's best full-time point guard younger than age 25, which augurs well for his long-term development. |
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I cant see through all of the filters to see what he is really saying. Is he not better than some of the 25 year olds who aren't full time point guards yet? Or was Pelton just emphasizing that Russell is a young starting PG? |
He's saying Russell is the best under 25 pg who plays significant minutes. BTW, Russell is the only non big in his top 5, meaning he's probably more valuable than some above him given the scarcity of top guards vs bigs. |
I think guards are much more impactful but I don't agree that there are more quality bigs than guards. |
Speaking specifically about the last few drafts. Note how 4 of his top five are bigs. |
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jonnybravo
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| Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 6:37 pm Post subject: |
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| Omar Little wrote: | | jonnybravo wrote: | | Omar Little wrote: | | Treble Clef wrote: | | pjiddy wrote: | | Quote: | Pelton: D'Angelo Russell rounds out my top five. The No. 2 overall pick has made incremental progress in his second season, improving his assist rate from 4.2 per 36 minutes to 6.0, increasing his usage rate to 27.4 percent of the Lakers' plays (up from 24.2 percent) while maintaining his efficiency and improving on the defensive glass.
While Russell still has a long way to go in his development as a playmaker and defender, a look around the league shows the opposite story at point guard as at center: Russell is perhaps the league's best full-time point guard younger than age 25, which augurs well for his long-term development. |
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I cant see through all of the filters to see what he is really saying. Is he not better than some of the 25 year olds who aren't full time point guards yet? Or was Pelton just emphasizing that Russell is a young starting PG? |
He's saying Russell is the best under 25 pg who plays significant minutes. BTW, Russell is the only non big in his top 5, meaning he's probably more valuable than some above him given the scarcity of top guards vs bigs. |
I think guards are much more impactful but I don't agree that there are more quality bigs than guards. |
Speaking specifically about the last few drafts. Note how 4 of his top five are bigs. |
Gotcha. 
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GoldenThroat
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| Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 7:00 pm Post subject: |
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As I posted in the Russell thread...
Quality bigs younger than 25
Anthony Davis
Rudy Gobert
Karl-Anthony Towns
Kristaps Porzingis
Nikola Jokic
Myles Turner
Andre Drummond
Julius Randle
Jonas Valanciunas
Steven Adams
Larry Nance, Jr.
Enes Kanter & Jahlil Okafor too, if you're into that sort of thing. |
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adkindo
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| Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 7:28 pm Post subject: |
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| Doesn't surprise me, before the season started, the clowns on TrueHoop were talking about the Lakers, and Ethan Strauss said he did not see anything good about the young players the Lakers had drafted in recent years, and the rest of the group began to agree and pile on....right as I was about the get angry, Pelton cut in and told them they were not just wrong, but way off...if I recall, spent about a minute providing an almost full proof explanation on why the Lakers young core could be very good, then told them it was ok if they disagreed, but to at least know they were wrong.....like 5 seconds of crickets, then they moved on. |
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jonnybravo
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| Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 7:47 pm Post subject: |
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I'd take Jokic over Porzingis.
In January: 22/10/5. 63% shooting, 56% from 3. 68% last month and it's not just put backs and dunks like Deandre. Dude is legit.
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tox
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| Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 8:13 pm Post subject: |
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| dcarter4kobe wrote: | | Pelton has always been a pretty logical guy for the most part IMO. |
He's the one stat head who I've always thought has pretty grounded predictions. |
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petergr
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| Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 8:35 pm Post subject: |
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| One correction...Pelton started projecting Jokic above Porzi since this point an year back. I remember Zach Lowe interviewing some people last year, he asked who is the 3rd best rookie and none of the clowns got it. Zach Lowe said its Jokic and its not even close. Most people were babbling Okafor, Winslow, Mudiay etc. |
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jonnybravo
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| Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 8:43 pm Post subject: |
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| petergr wrote: | | One correction...Pelton started projecting Jokic above Porzi since this point an year back. I remember Zach Lowe interviewing some people last year, he asked who is the 3rd best rookie and none of the clowns got it. Zach Lowe said its Jokic and its not even close. Most people were babbling Okafor, Winslow, Mudiay etc. |
He wasn't getting enough playing time last season. For the first few weeks this season it was the same drill. Mike Malone finally realized he's FAR and away their best player and has given Jokic more minutes and he has responded. All the advanced metrics last season projected him as a beast in limited time. He's proving he can do it with starter minutes.
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Vesper
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| Posted: Tue Jan 17, 2017 8:44 pm Post subject: |
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| THing with Jokic is that he sucks defensively, which is a huge problem moving forward for the Nuggets. |
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1hu2ren3dui4
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| Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 4:49 pm Post subject: |
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| GoldenThroat wrote: | As I posted in the Russell thread...
Quality bigs younger than 25
Anthony Davis
Rudy Gobert
Karl-Anthony Towns
Kristaps Porzingis
Nikola Jokic
Myles Turner
Andre Drummond
Julius Randle
Jonas Valanciunas
Steven Adams
Larry Nance, Jr.
Enes Kanter & Jahlil Okafor too, if you're into that sort of thing. |
Embiid out because it's a matter of time before injuries derail his career? |
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LaxT
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| Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 7:50 pm Post subject: |
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It is not ideal but acceptable when you draft the 4th best player with the 2nd pick.(Jokic drafted in 2014) Could have done worse with Okafor.
However, a new wave of PGs is coming: Fultz, Ball, Smith, Fox. I am not sure where Russell will be ranked among PGs in two years when elite ones like Westbrook, Curry, Lillard are still in their prime and the newbies are emerging. In other words, I am afraid we might end up with a Conley, a good player who never makes the ASG.
The same is true for Randle. Without star power, you are going nowhere in the NBA.
The team did well in recent drafts, but to build a contender through the draft, you need to do exceptionally well, and sometimes windfalls. |
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greenfrog
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| Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 8:30 pm Post subject: |
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If he turns out as good as Conley then all this consternation has been for nothing.
We are 4th currently in the lottery so we may have some options here. |
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LaxT
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| Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 10:07 pm Post subject: |
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| greenfrog wrote: | If he turns out as good as Conley then all this consternation has been for nothing.
We are 4th currently in the lottery so we may have some options here. |
If we end up with the 4th pick and lose it to the Sixers, it would be terrible. I wish for #1 and Fultz.
Mitch has proven that he can trade and draft. Free agency is a different story. I am not talking about the Durants but minor additions which end up better than expected. In recent years, we added a former lottery pick every year, Wes Johnson, Ed Davis, TRob etc., in hope of a windfall. None has worked so far.
It is a puzzle to me why Mitch could find somebody like Bazemore in trade but not in free agency. Actually he got Bazemore and soon lost him to the Hawks at a cheap price. Did the FO put all the eggs on hitting a homerun? Maybe. But they can still aim for a double after being striked out by the Durants.
Draft, trade, free agency are the three pillars for rebuilding. So far the team leans on draft and has done well, but one pillar will not build a contender. |
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GoldenThroat
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| Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 10:29 pm Post subject: |
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| 1hu2ren3dui4 wrote: | | GoldenThroat wrote: | As I posted in the Russell thread...
Quality bigs younger than 25
Anthony Davis
Rudy Gobert
Karl-Anthony Towns
Kristaps Porzingis
Nikola Jokic
Myles Turner
Andre Drummond
Julius Randle
Jonas Valanciunas
Steven Adams
Larry Nance, Jr.
Enes Kanter & Jahlil Okafor too, if you're into that sort of thing. |
Embiid out because it's a matter of time before injuries derail his career? |
I did a search on Basketball Reference and he didn't qualify for the minutes leaderboard. Of course Embiid is high up on that list. |
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greenfrog
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| Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 10:33 pm Post subject: |
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| LaxT wrote: | | greenfrog wrote: | If he turns out as good as Conley then all this consternation has been for nothing.
We are 4th currently in the lottery so we may have some options here. |
If we end up with the 4th pick and lose it to the Sixers, it would be terrible. I wish for #1 and Fultz.
Mitch has proven that he can trade and draft. Free agency is a different story. I am not talking about the Durants but minor additions which end up better than expected. In recent years, we added a former lottery pick every year, Wes Johnson, Ed Davis, TRob etc., in hope of a windfall. None has worked so far.
It is a puzzle to me why Mitch could find somebody like Bazemore in trade but not in free agency. Actually he got Bazemore and soon lost him to the Hawks at a cheap price. Did the FO put all the eggs on hitting a homerun? Maybe. But they can still aim for a double after being striked out by the Durants.
Draft, trade, free agency are the three pillars for rebuilding. So far the team leans on draft and has done well, but one pillar will not build a contender. |
Yes. Kyle Lowry was even too small potatoes.
That 4th ranking isn't set in stone either. Viva la Suns! |
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Truck Turner
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| Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 1:05 am Post subject: |
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| justsomelakerfan wrote: | | petergr wrote: | | justsomelakerfan wrote: | | dcarter4kobe wrote: | | Pelton has always been a pretty logical guy for the most part IMO. |
His Randle takes... I understand at the time this summer being lower on him given his overall season, but he would straight up laugh whenever people asked about him on podcasts this summer. Had him as a bust. He went overboard with Randle, but I generally like his takes. |
He was down on Randle but as long as i followed him...his seems too nice a guy to completely write off any young player's development. It will be interesting to see how he projects Randle among the 3rd year players. He did not have him in the top-10 last year. |
I remember earlier in the season he was starting to admit that Randle changed his game in ways he didn't anticipate he could. Props for owning up to it. Pelton has fair takes for the most part. |
I will never understand why so many people assumed Randle was incapable of improving. what was frustrating about it was nobody every offered any sort of reasoning as to WHY they felt Randle couldn't improved. |
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nash
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| Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 3:14 am Post subject: |
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| Truck Turner wrote: | | justsomelakerfan wrote: | | petergr wrote: | | justsomelakerfan wrote: | | dcarter4kobe wrote: | | Pelton has always been a pretty logical guy for the most part IMO. |
His Randle takes... I understand at the time this summer being lower on him given his overall season, but he would straight up laugh whenever people asked about him on podcasts this summer. Had him as a bust. He went overboard with Randle, but I generally like his takes. |
He was down on Randle but as long as i followed him...his seems too nice a guy to completely write off any young player's development. It will be interesting to see how he projects Randle among the 3rd year players. He did not have him in the top-10 last year. |
I remember earlier in the season he was starting to admit that Randle changed his game in ways he didn't anticipate he could. Props for owning up to it. Pelton has fair takes for the most part. |
I will never understand why so many people assumed Randle was incapable of improving. what was frustrating about it was nobody every offered any sort of reasoning as to WHY they felt Randle couldn't improved. |
I can't speak for others, but you luck at Zubac and you see a player with great hands and a soft touch. With Julius I feel the complete opposite, his finishes and his stroke looks awkward, his shots look like bullets and he lacks the length to defend under the rim. Over the top he seems to be willing just to do what looks cool at the stat sheet. He has some unmatched physical attributes, but there is a lot to be concerned too. Randle is improving, but I just have a tough time projecting a superstar watching him play. |
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nash
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| Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 3:54 am Post subject: |
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| LaxT wrote: | It is not ideal but acceptable when you draft the 4th best player with the 2nd pick.(Jokic drafted in 2014) Could have done worse with Okafor.
However, a new wave of PGs is coming: Fultz, Ball, Smith, Fox. I am not sure where Russell will be ranked among PGs in two years when elite ones like Westbrook, Curry, Lillard are still in their prime and the newbies are emerging. In other words, I am afraid we might end up with a Conley, a good player who never makes the ASG.
The same is true for Randle. Without star power, you are going nowhere in the NBA.
The team did well in recent drafts, but to build a contender through the draft, you need to do exceptionally well, and sometimes windfalls. |
I believe we did an outstanding job with our late picks, but it's usually with high picks that you have to hit the jackpot to rebuild through the draft. |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 7:11 am Post subject: |
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| jonnybravo wrote: | I'd take Jokic over Porzingis.
In January: 22/10/5. 63% shooting, 56% from 3. 68% last month and it's not just put backs and dunks like Deandre. Dude is legit. |
With Porky's Achilles issues, that also complicates things. His long-term durability/health were question marks probably. How many 7'3 guys have had a long and healthy career, especially those tasked with bearing a huge scoring burden like Porky does (or will, or should).
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Gepetto
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| Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 7:38 am Post subject: |
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| What does Pelton say about Nance? |
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Lakers_Jester
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| Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 10:04 am Post subject: |
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| Interesting |
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justsomelakerfan
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| Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 10:22 am Post subject: |
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| Gepetto wrote: | | What does Pelton say about Nance? |
| Quote: | Booker and former Kentucky teammate Trey Lyles are the two other one-and-done prospects currently performing around replacement level or better. The others in the group, including Mudiay and No. 3 pick Jahlil Okafor, are so far from replacement level right now that I'm not convinced they're going to get there.
As a result, I'm rounding out my top 10 with three lower-upside prospects who are contributing far more to their teams right now.
Nance is already an above-average backup big man -- the Lakers have really missed him while he has been sidelined -- who might eventually grow to become a starter. |
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greenfrog
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| Posted: Thu Jan 19, 2017 1:30 pm Post subject: |
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| IIRC, he wasn't very high on Nance coming out of the draft. |
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