why is Luke treating Russell the same way as Byron?
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Ujah's Goat
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 9:15 am    Post subject:

fiendishoc wrote:
There's a lot of anger toward Russell during this losing streak, but I bet a lot of this perception is actually caused by his shooting slump and uneven sub patterns. He is bad in defensive transition, which can look bad, but in the half court I see him trying. Randle has been the far worse offender recently in the effort department on that end.


Randle has been getting a pass on D around here because of the games in which he registers a few blocks (i.e. the 5-block game against the Hornets in which his D was atrocious otherwise). I'm still standing by my opinion that he has not shown anything to suggest he will ever be a decent defensive player at the PF/C positions.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 9:18 am    Post subject:

maybe its a Russell issue and not a coaching issue. Yeah Scott wasnt the best players coach, but Luke is a fair players coach who supports his players and installs confidence in them. Russell keeps taking the blame after most losses and says "this ones one me".. "I didnt bring it tonight". Not sure if he's still bothered by the knee but it becomes a broken record after awhile of seeing him have bad games and not respond well individually the following game.

Last 5 games: 9.6 PTS - 4.8 Rebounds - 4 ASTS - 2.2Tovers & 32% FG% and all of them have been losses.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 9:20 am    Post subject:

Ujah's Goat wrote:
fiendishoc wrote:
There's a lot of anger toward Russell during this losing streak, but I bet a lot of this perception is actually caused by his shooting slump and uneven sub patterns. He is bad in defensive transition, which can look bad, but in the half court I see him trying. Randle has been the far worse offender recently in the effort department on that end.


Randle has been getting a pass on D around here because of the games in which he registers a few blocks (i.e. the 5-block game against the Hornets in which his D was atrocious otherwise).I'm still standing by my opinion that he has not shown anything to suggest he will ever be a decent defensive player at the PF/C positions.




What Universe do you live in where Randle has been getting a pass on his defense around here? Have you ever been in the Randle thread or the game threads?

Even when Randle has a good game people point out his mistakes on the defensive end. He's had some moments where you can see his potential as a defender but he's been most inconsistent on that end of the floor.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 9:20 am    Post subject:

JeezyXVII wrote:
maybe its a Russell issue and not a coaching issue. Yeah Scott wasnt the best players coach, but Luke is a fair players coach who supports his players and installs confidence in them. Russell keeps taking the blame after most losses and says "this ones one me".. "I didnt bring it tonight". Not sure if he's still bothered by the knee but it becomes a broken record after awhile of seeing him have bad games and not respond well individually the following game.

Last 5 games: 9.6 PTS - 4.8 Rebounds - 4 ASTS - 2.2Tovers & 32% FG% and all of them have been losses.


And for the season, 15/4/5...for what is allegedly his down year.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 9:21 am    Post subject:

Ujah's Goat wrote:
fiendishoc wrote:
There's a lot of anger toward Russell during this losing streak, but I bet a lot of this perception is actually caused by his shooting slump and uneven sub patterns. He is bad in defensive transition, which can look bad, but in the half court I see him trying. Randle has been the far worse offender recently in the effort department on that end.


Randle has been getting a pass on D around here because of the games in which he registers a few blocks (i.e. the 5-block game against the Hornets in which his D was atrocious otherwise). I'm still standing by my opinion that he has not shown anything to suggest he will ever be a decent defensive player at the PF/C positions.


In the stretch where we won 3 out of 4, he was much better. Gave me some hope.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 9:22 am    Post subject:

The secret formula to wins is when DLO AND Jules play well. I can't remember too many games where the Lakers fared well when the duo didn't have a good game.

It's about teaching these young men how to establish habits that lead to consistency. The talent is there but the consistency isn't. That really takes time. Ask the TWolves who are struggling with the same issues.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 9:24 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
lakersboi1993 wrote:
Kinda of disappointed in Druss this year every game when we behind are making a comeback he does a two turnover in a row which always leads to extra points for the other team but not only that but where is all the fire In the kid go everybody that had been benched are didn't see a lot of minutes always Come back with a competitive spirit haven't seen it this year from Russ showed alot more of it last year & I have lost just a little faith in my guy as I thought this would be at worst a very good season for him if we get the draft pic and draft a guard do we trade Russ?


If you think he's playing poorly, you don't trade a player at their lowest value.


Playing poorly = player at lowest trade value

To answer the question, if we get a lottery pick and draft a guard I don't think that means that the FO automatically trades Russell. If Lakers draft a guard and you couple that with Russell falling out with Luke or the team (something drastic), I can see a trade centered around him happening.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 9:26 am    Post subject:

Ujah's Goat wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
lakersboi1993 wrote:
Kinda of disappointed in Druss this year every game when we behind are making a comeback he does a two turnover in a row which always leads to extra points for the other team but not only that but where is all the fire In the kid go everybody that had been benched are didn't see a lot of minutes always Come back with a competitive spirit haven't seen it this year from Russ showed alot more of it last year & I have lost just a little faith in my guy as I thought this would be at worst a very good season for him if we get the draft pic and draft a guard do we trade Russ?


If you think he's playing poorly, you don't trade a player at their lowest value.


Playing poorly = player at lowest trade value

To answer the question, if we get a lottery pick and draft a guard I don't think that means that the FO automatically trades Russell. If Lakers draft a guard and you couple that with Russell falling out with Luke or the team (something drastic), I can see a trade centered around him happening.


I disagree about trading him unless we are getting an all star level player in return. He's 20, on a rookie deal, and bodes well IMO as a modern day NBA guard.

I was stating that if he is playing as poorly as some think he is, why would a team give up much for him? If anything, you would seek to rehabilitate his worth given he's on a rookie deal (which is liquid gold in the new CBA).
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 9:26 am    Post subject:

Truck Turner wrote:
Ujah's Goat wrote:
fiendishoc wrote:
There's a lot of anger toward Russell during this losing streak, but I bet a lot of this perception is actually caused by his shooting slump and uneven sub patterns. He is bad in defensive transition, which can look bad, but in the half court I see him trying. Randle has been the far worse offender recently in the effort department on that end.


Randle has been getting a pass on D around here because of the games in which he registers a few blocks (i.e. the 5-block game against the Hornets in which his D was atrocious otherwise).I'm still standing by my opinion that he has not shown anything to suggest he will ever be a decent defensive player at the PF/C positions.




What Universe do you live in where Randle has been getting a pass on his defense around here? Have you ever been in the Randle thread or the game threads?

Even when Randle has a good game people point out his mistakes on the defensive end. He's had some moments where you can see his potential as a defender but he's been most inconsistent on that end of the floor.


It's all relative, my friend. Were you on the boards the week of the 5 block game? I was getting roasted for saying that Randle was not showing defensive improvement this season.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 9:29 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
The secret formula to wins is when DLO AND Jules play well. I can't remember too many games where the Lakers fared well when the duo didn't have a good game.

It's about teaching these young men how to establish habits that lead to consistency. The talent is there but the consistency isn't. That really takes time. Ask the TWolves who are struggling with the same issues.


Yup....

I'm shocked that anybody that's watched this team closely could question their talent. The consistency is the problem and as you said, that's going to take time. It's easy to forget, but the Warriors had similar problems a few years back. Loads of young talent that showed flashes of greatness but were inconsistent.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 9:31 am    Post subject:

Ujah's Goat wrote:
Truck Turner wrote:
Ujah's Goat wrote:
fiendishoc wrote:
There's a lot of anger toward Russell during this losing streak, but I bet a lot of this perception is actually caused by his shooting slump and uneven sub patterns. He is bad in defensive transition, which can look bad, but in the half court I see him trying. Randle has been the far worse offender recently in the effort department on that end.


Randle has been getting a pass on D around here because of the games in which he registers a few blocks (i.e. the 5-block game against the Hornets in which his D was atrocious otherwise).I'm still standing by my opinion that he has not shown anything to suggest he will ever be a decent defensive player at the PF/C positions.




What Universe do you live in where Randle has been getting a pass on his defense around here? Have you ever been in the Randle thread or the game threads?

Even when Randle has a good game people point out his mistakes on the defensive end. He's had some moments where you can see his potential as a defender but he's been most inconsistent on that end of the floor.


It's all relative, my friend. Were you on the boards the week of the 5 block game? I was getting roasted for saying that Randle was not showing defensive improvement this season.


He has shown improvement on the defensive end this season. That's not to say he's become a good defender, but he's definitely better than he was last season (which isn't saying much).
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 9:34 am    Post subject:

Truck Turner wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
The secret formula to wins is when DLO AND Jules play well. I can't remember too many games where the Lakers fared well when the duo didn't have a good game.

It's about teaching these young men how to establish habits that lead to consistency. The talent is there but the consistency isn't. That really takes time. Ask the TWolves who are struggling with the same issues.


Yup....

I'm shocked that anybody that's watched this team closely could question their talent. The consistency is the problem and as you said, that's going to take time. It's easy to forget, but the Warriors had similar problems a few years back. Loads of young talent that showed flashes of greatness but were inconsistent.


You'll see the TWolves for example, have games where Wiggins/KAT/Lavine explode and then others where 2 of the 3 are sucking it up. It's a symptom of youth and inexperience, NOT LACK OF TALENT.

The fact that some here immediately chock it up to lack of talent is ridiculous.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 9:35 am    Post subject:

I got banned for saying bad things about DLo on this forum so I don't need to say it again but I'd like to reiterate my stance from the beginning that DLo is a bust and should have been traded before the season started when his trade value was high.

Seeing him as a bust then trading him is easy. Good GM can spot talents and busts and make unpopular decisions. If Mitch believed in DLo and kept him, then he isn't as good a GM as I thought. Just like how Phil Jackson resigned Melo for the Knicks. If he was a good GM, he would have seen the Melo signing as a bad move (a would be very unpopular move).
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 9:37 am    Post subject:

lakersfever714 wrote:
I got banned for saying bad things about DLo on this forum so I don't need to say it again but I'd like to reiterate my stance from the beginning that DLo is a bust and should have been traded before the season started when his trade value was high.


I'd ask you to define "bust" as DLO is nowhere near that.

Anthony Bennett (#1 pick). Bust? Absolutely.

Trey Burke (#2). Bust? Sure.

DLO? Nowhere near that.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 9:42 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
lakersfever714 wrote:
I got banned for saying bad things about DLo on this forum so I don't need to say it again but I'd like to reiterate my stance from the beginning that DLo is a bust and should have been traded before the season started when his trade value was high.


I'd ask you to define "bust" as DLO is nowhere near that.

Anthony Bennett (#1 pick). Bust? Absolutely.

Trey Burke (#2). Bust? Sure.

DLO? Nowhere near that.


His turnovers are a nightmare for a pg and he doesn't have the speed which makes most pg good. Speed lets you get to the hoop easier which opens up your jumpshots which opens up passing lanes. On defensive end, speed lets you stay in front of guys and get steals. In other words, slow pg = bust.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 9:49 am    Post subject:

lakersfever714 wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
lakersfever714 wrote:
I got banned for saying bad things about DLo on this forum so I don't need to say it again but I'd like to reiterate my stance from the beginning that DLo is a bust and should have been traded before the season started when his trade value was high.


I'd ask you to define "bust" as DLO is nowhere near that.

Anthony Bennett (#1 pick). Bust? Absolutely.

Trey Burke (#2). Bust? Sure.

DLO? Nowhere near that.


His turnovers are a nightmare for a pg and he doesn't have the speed which makes most pg good. Speed lets you get to the hoop easier which opens up your jumpshots which opens up passing lanes. On defensive end, speed lets you stay in front of guys and get steals. In other words, slow pg = bust.


It's pretty clear to me you don't understand that term. Moving on.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 9:52 am    Post subject:

Posted it in the DLO thread last night. It's time to let DLO play his way through bad games.
Scott didn't give him a chance to do that. And Luke hasn't either.
We are so far below .500 now. What is there to gain by benching him so we can lose with the vets? All we have to look forward to is the future. And Lou and Swaggy shooting us into games isn't gonna bring us playoff success in the future.
The young guys have to be the priority. All around.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 9:54 am    Post subject:

I was also disappointed that he played like this while Magic Johnson was at the game. Shots will come and go but not to play with any fire or heart while Magic was watching is a red flag.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 9:56 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
Ujah's Goat wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
lakersboi1993 wrote:
Kinda of disappointed in Druss this year every game when we behind are making a comeback he does a two turnover in a row which always leads to extra points for the other team but not only that but where is all the fire In the kid go everybody that had been benched are didn't see a lot of minutes always Come back with a competitive spirit haven't seen it this year from Russ showed alot more of it last year & I have lost just a little faith in my guy as I thought this would be at worst a very good season for him if we get the draft pic and draft a guard do we trade Russ?


If you think he's playing poorly, you don't trade a player at their lowest value.


Playing poorly = player at lowest trade value

To answer the question, if we get a lottery pick and draft a guard I don't think that means that the FO automatically trades Russell. If Lakers draft a guard and you couple that with Russell falling out with Luke or the team (something drastic), I can see a trade centered around him happening.


I disagree about trading him unless we are getting an all star level player in return. He's 20, on a rookie deal, and bodes well IMO as a modern day NBA guard.

I was stating that if he is playing as poorly as some think he is, why would a team give up much for him? If anything, you would seek to rehabilitate his worth given he's on a rookie deal (which is liquid gold in the new CBA).


Teams are still enamored with potential and, as evidenced in the trade threads here, may believe that a situational change can allow players to bloom (this has been said about Noel, Okafor recently and players like Harkless, Barnes, Rondo, in recent seasons).

I don't agree that Russell has to be playing at a high level to net us a star due to his "potential," and believe that whether or not a trade involving him is successful will be more dependent on the entire trade package rather than his play alone. As you said, liquid gold.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 10:01 am    Post subject:

Truck Turner wrote:
Ujah's Goat wrote:
Truck Turner wrote:
Ujah's Goat wrote:
fiendishoc wrote:
There's a lot of anger toward Russell during this losing streak, but I bet a lot of this perception is actually caused by his shooting slump and uneven sub patterns. He is bad in defensive transition, which can look bad, but in the half court I see him trying. Randle has been the far worse offender recently in the effort department on that end.


Randle has been getting a pass on D around here because of the games in which he registers a few blocks (i.e. the 5-block game against the Hornets in which his D was atrocious otherwise).I'm still standing by my opinion that he has not shown anything to suggest he will ever be a decent defensive player at the PF/C positions.




What Universe do you live in where Randle has been getting a pass on his defense around here? Have you ever been in the Randle thread or the game threads?

Even when Randle has a good game people point out his mistakes on the defensive end. He's had some moments where you can see his potential as a defender but he's been most inconsistent on that end of the floor.


It's all relative, my friend. Were you on the boards the week of the 5 block game? I was getting roasted for saying that Randle was not showing defensive improvement this season.


He has shown improvement on the defensive end this season. That's not to say he's become a good defender, but he's definitely better than he was last season (which isn't saying much).


My point exactly. The room for improvement defensively with him is sky high, but his marginal improvement from last year to now is almost negligible. I think it's fair to criticize this glaring hole in his game, but a few posters get up in arms when it is said.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 10:03 am    Post subject:

It has to be an attitude problem because Ingram's play has been horrific at times yet he still gets his minutes. Ingram hasn't even come close to being as good as Russell was his rookie year but here we are, Russell getting benched again while Ingram's minutes increase. Something going on behind the scene and Walton has had enough.

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PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 10:05 am    Post subject:

OCWA wrote:
It has to be an attitude problem because Ingram's play has been horrific at times yet he still gets his minutes. Ingram's hasn't even come close to being as good as Russell was his rookie year but here we are, Russell getting benched again while Ingram's minutes increase. Something going on behind the scene and Walton has had enough.


Could it be also that Deng is having a terrible year and there's no one besides MWP who is a backup SF too ?
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 10:13 am    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
OCWA wrote:
It has to be an attitude problem because Ingram's play has been horrific at times yet he still gets his minutes. Ingram's hasn't even come close to being as good as Russell was his rookie year but here we are, Russell getting benched again while Ingram's minutes increase. Something going on behind the scene and Walton has had enough.


Could it be also that Deng is having a terrible year and there's no one besides MWP who is a backup SF too ?


Ingram's versatility does lead to more opportunities to get on the floor. But I suspect personalities/attitudes play some role in what we are seeing.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 10:15 am    Post subject:

OCWA wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
OCWA wrote:
It has to be an attitude problem because Ingram's play has been horrific at times yet he still gets his minutes. Ingram's hasn't even come close to being as good as Russell was his rookie year but here we are, Russell getting benched again while Ingram's minutes increase. Something going on behind the scene and Walton has had enough.


Could it be also that Deng is having a terrible year and there's no one besides MWP who is a backup SF too ?


Ingram's versatility does lead to more opportunities to get on the floor. But I suspect personalities/attitudes play some role in what we are seeing.


Could be, but also b/c Lou is playing so well. Ingram doesn't have a comparable Lou-sized threat to take his minutes away.
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PostPosted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 10:19 am    Post subject:

Dave20 wrote:
I was also disappointed that he played like this while Magic Johnson was at the game. Shots will come and go but not to play with any fire or heart while Magic was watching is a red flag.


Lol how do you come up with that stuff ?
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