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RI Laker
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Joined: 27 Jun 2005
Posts: 7161
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 Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 11:17 am Post subject: |
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| I think the kids are showing us glimpses (and reasons to be excited), but lack consistency (which is a sign of immaturity and exactly where they should be). Effort is a problem at times (tough to fix especially when your team is playing bad going to the mid point of a season). Our biggest problem is we missed out on signing those top veterans to mix into our lineup with our pups. I think the FO was not patient enough and may have over reacted this past off season with our free agent acquisitions. However, its easy to sit here and Monday Morning quarterback things that have not worked out. I think we are still two years away (IF things go our way). |
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activeverb
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Joined: 17 Jun 2006
Posts: 37470
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| Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 11:21 am Post subject: Re: Pointing Fingers... |
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| Lakerpark wrote: | Hi, I have some general questions regarding the Lakers for you hardcore analysts....
I believe its time to point some fingers at who or what the problem is.
1. What is wrong with the Lakers? I don't really expect much because they do still have lots of holes in their roster. Experience and continued growth will remedy some of the problems but it seems like it goes deeper than that.
2. Why is their defense so bad? Is it just a lack of effort? Or are the players just not smart enough to grasp the concepts? Is it a physical ability issue? (too old, too young, too slow, too short, too skinny, etc)
Pointing some fingers:
3. Brandon Ingram - so far, he can't shoot. He seems to be improving slightly lately but I worry when a player shoots an airball when he is wide open. Why do some rookies have a hard time shooting when they get to the NBA? The rim is still 10 feet high just like in college. I'm talking about wide open shots... Otherwise BI is doing fine. Seems like he plays hard and smart.
4. Jordan Clarkson - makes some really dumb offensive plays once in a while and I don't know if he is improving any on defense. We seem a little forgiving when his shots are falling. He's still a ball hog. I feel his effort is high at least on offense. Not sure about on Defense.
5. Julius Randle - Is he one of the guys the press is saying is not putting out 100% effort? Seems to do well on the boards and in bringing the ball up and distributing. But when it comes to shooting the ball, he kind of reminds me of Kwame Brown in that he is afraid to shoot anything but a lay up and even his layups seem to have been shot by hands of stone.
6. Mozgov - What's his issue? I thought he was playing hard yesterday as evidenced by him running the court on the fast break a couple times. But his minutes were really cut short. Is he doing a good job this year. He can't seem to finish the easy short shots very consistently. But he does get hot occasionally from the perimeter. But his verticality ploys don't seem to do much. Seems like a more sturdier version of Hibbert. I know it was only one game but look at Zubac, he's about the same size, he does that verticality stuff and is not as strong but Zubac seems to produce (points, rebounds, blocks) . Mozgov doesn't seem to produce much. Is he one of the guys not hustling or playing smart?
7. Russell - So inconsistent. Is he becoming a slacker? Seems like Mudiay outplayed him last night. Hopefully Russell has stopped all his "I'm the best in the draft" and "I've got ice in my veins" talk.
8. Deng - Inconsistent - but at least is the effort there?
9. Lou Williams - great on offense but does he even try on defense? Is his poor defense just a physical thing or is it lack of effort?
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The guys I count on for good efforts:
10. Tarik Black - works hard all the time. How's his defense? I know he's too small to be a rim protector. Still needs work on his offense, but seems to be improving.
11. TRob - Works hard all the time. But limited offensive skills.
12. Zubac - hope he keeps it up. Hopefully he'll get stronger next season and that should help him on the boards. The guards need to give him some shots in the low post. So far all he seems to get are PNR shots.
13. Nance - Seems to be a big key for the Lakers. Plays hard, plays smart, has average to above average offensive skills. Seems like the Lakers MVP.
14. Nick Young - I think he's playing well. Pretty consistent on offense. And putting in a good effort on Defense based on what I have observed. Whether he is out to prove himself or because he is playing for a new contract, I say I can count on Nick.
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So, only five guys (maybe add 3/4 for BI and 1/2 for Lou) I can count on night in and night out. No wonder the Lakers are so bad. |
1. Young and inexperienced; general lack of talent
2. We stunk last year and really didn't do anything to improve. We don't have a single defender who you could call good, and we don't have any rim protection.
3. Rookies have a hard time because the game is faster and the defense is better. In college, they have time to shoot in the way they want. In the NBA, they often don't. I once heard a former an NBA player say, "Anyone in the NBA could shoot an amazing percentage if they could just stand there and shoot the ball the way they want, but you simply don't have time time."
4. Clarkson seems like an average player to me.
5. Randle is showing all the pros and cons people expected coming out of college.
6. Mosgov is what he is. Just because he got a big contract doesn't mean he is going to develop a bigger game. He's an average NBA center, who will rise and fall a bit depending on the quality of his teammates.
7. Russell is a young guy at the hardest NBA position to learn. He might turn into something, might not.
8. Deng is in the wrong system for his skills and style of play.
9. Lou is what he is -- a gunner who plays no defense. Volume shooter.
10. Tarik is an undersized hustle guy. Decent backup.
11. He's shown promise.
12. Nance seems like a decent backup.
13. Young is playing well in an ideal situation for him. He's the type of guy who will do worse as the team around him improves. Nice stopgate; don't seem him as important to the future. |
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Dilla_
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Joined: 25 Oct 2015
Posts: 1274
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| Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 11:40 am Post subject: |
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A young team which are very inexperienced and inconsistent which means they make more mistakes and blow leads. Defensively they are bad and some of that comes down to being a young team but that can't always be the excuse as the Lakers have been bad defensively for a few years now. And let's forget Luke is a rookie coach it's his first full season as an NBA coach and he is going to mistakes which he will learn from.
I wish Russell, Randle and Clarkson were getting more game time in each game. You could even put Ingram in to that conversation, the Lakers aren't going to make the playoffs so why not play the young players even more than they've been playing. Both Mozgov and Deng have been disappointing this season and both have very bad contracts which is going to be hard for the Lakers to trade, it looks like the Lakers will be stuck with them for at least two more seasons. Deng looks more like a PF and with Randle and Nance Jr as the current PF options Deng isn't going to get much game time at the four.
Nick Young and Lou Williams have been quite good this season and will the Lakers consider trading them near the deadline? Young will be a free agent this summer unless he opts in with his player option but I doubt he will do that, so Young might not return next season. Lou Williams contract is only 7M per season and he's still got another year left on it after this season so it's a very tradable.
Calderon is just back-up and won't return next season, same can be said about Huertas. Robinson has had some good moments this season and he offers something when he's 14 or 15 player on a roster. MWP shouldn't even be on the roster.
I like Black and the energy he brings, I think he will be back next season his contract is until 2018. You can see why the Lakers drafted Zubac but he's not ready yet but I'm against him getting 10 to 12 minutes per game or shutting down Mozgov when it's near the end of the season and Zubac getting his minutes.
Nance Jr has had injury problems in the past and might not be able to stay healthy for a whole season but he was a steal in the 2015 draft.
It's just going to take time for the young core to improve it might take longer than everyone expected and even Luke is still learning it's only his first season as an NBA coach.
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venturalakersfan
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Joined: 14 Apr 2001
Posts: 144475
Location: The Gold Coast
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| Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 11:48 am Post subject: |
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The 4 teams that most consider having the best collection of young talent (Lakers, 76ers, Wolves and Nuggets) have won 59 out of 167 games. 35%. That is what rebuilding looks like.
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adkindo
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Joined: 16 Jun 2005
Posts: 40345
Location: Dirty South
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| Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 12:27 pm Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | Was watching the Wolves the Spurs last night. They blew a sizeable lead to the Spurs b/c frankly, they are talented and young, but inexperienced.
I think the Wolves core is better than ours, and if they're struggling to close, then it's not hard to believe we are too. |
The Wolves problem is Lavine is a poor fit with Wiggins/Towns/Rubio. I honestly believe that is true.....at the same time, I think he would fit really well with the Lakers.
Rubio is optimal when he has the ball...a lot, and Wiggins and Towns greatly benefit from Rubio's ability to break down defenses and find them easy buckets. On that roster, Lavine's usage often is a negative to the overall team. In contrast, a PG like DLo does not need the ball nearly as much as Rubio, and Lavine's athleticism @ the 2, between Russell and Ingram would be beneficial.....while his poor defense would be a problem. The same case may be made for Rubio in the back court with DLo also playing off ball.... |
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frijolero01
Franchise Player
Joined: 10 May 2005
Posts: 13324
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| Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 12:44 pm Post subject: |
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| kobetimeeverytime wrote: | what's wrong with the lakers?
we have a squad of young <25 year old players. Even Kyrie wasn't winning at that age. You don't win in the NBA with young players, I don't know why people were expecting playoffs with this team. It simply wasn't realistic |
I'm definitely one of those who didn't expect playoffs this year even when we were 10-10. I just wanted improvement from last year. 30 wins is good enough for me but, at this rate, I don't see how they'll get to 20.
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troy
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Joined: 30 Jan 2013
Posts: 5029
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| Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 1:04 pm Post subject: |
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I tend to see this game a bit more simplistic.
In basketball, you win by scoring points. Yes, you need to prevent the other team from scoring, too. But to WIN, you must score points.
As I see the Lakers, there aren't very many good shooters. I'm different than what I hear from others, in that I feel defense doesn't require that much skill, but a boatload of effort and energy. The talent of a NBA player is measured not by his defense, but by his ability to score points. From scoring, everything else is emphasized.
On this current Lakers team, we just don't have enough players that can can score consistently. Russell constantly misses shots a normal NBA PG should make. Randall can't finish layups and misses wide open 3 foot shots, Moz comes and goes, but isn't athletic enough to score big down low, Young is okay, but can be streaky. Lou is a good scorer, I can say that. But at our key starting positions, we just don't have good offensive players.
I hear Luke saying it's not about scoring, because that comes and goes. That's is about defense. I disagree. You can't be good in this league with scoring that comes and goes. You have to have enough players on yoru team that can put points on the board. It's all about making shots. Defense doesn't win you games, it just slows the other team down. It's all about scoring, and we just don't have enough good shooters. |
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4OnTheFloor
Star Player
Joined: 20 Feb 2004
Posts: 1148
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| Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 1:22 pm Post subject: |
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| troy wrote: | I tend to see this game a bit more simplistic.
In basketball, you win by scoring points. Yes, you need to prevent the other team from scoring, too. But to WIN, you must score points.
As I see the Lakers, there aren't very many good shooters. I'm different than what I hear from others, in that I feel defense doesn't require that much skill, but a boatload of effort and energy. The talent of a NBA player is measured not by his defense, but by his ability to score points. From scoring, everything else is emphasized.
On this current Lakers team, we just don't have enough players that can can score consistently. Russell constantly misses shots a normal NBA PG should make. Randall can't finish layups and misses wide open 3 foot shots, Moz comes and goes, but isn't athletic enough to score big down low, Young is okay, but can be streaky. Lou is a good scorer, I can say that. But at our key starting positions, we just don't have good offensive players.
I hear Luke saying it's not about scoring, because that comes and goes. That's is about defense. I disagree. You can't be good in this league with scoring that comes and goes. You have to have enough players on yoru team that can put points on the board. It's all about making shots. Defense doesn't win you games, it just slows the other team down. It's all about scoring, and we just don't have enough good shooters. |
We scored 121 points last night, our average is 104 points a game. Scoring is not the problem. Stopping the other team from scoring is. I agree with Luke |
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yinoma2001
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Joined: 19 Jun 2010
Posts: 119487
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| Posted: Wed Jan 18, 2017 1:23 pm Post subject: |
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Agreed. Our defense is horrible. We have too many guys who think we can win by outscoring the other team.
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