Lakers Have the 5th Best Young Core (25 or Under)
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yinoma2001
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 11:18 am    Post subject: Lakers Have the 5th Best Young Core (25 or Under)

I made a post about a year ago concerning young emerging cores (I couldnít find it in the archives). So, now that we have a bit of more information, letís compare some young cores (age 25 or under). Hereís how Iíve rated them:

1. Minny: KAT, Dunn, Wiggins, Jones, Lavine, Muhammad
2. 76ers: Embiid, Simmons, Saric, Noel, Okafor, TLC, Stauskas
3. Bucks: Giannis, Brogdon, Thon, Middleton, Parker, Snell
4. Jazz: Exum, Favors, Gobert, Hood, Lyles
5. Lakers: DLO, Ingram, Jules, JC, Nance, Zubac
6. Nuggets: Harris, Jokic, Nurkic, Mudiay, Murray
7. Suns: Bender, Booker, Chriss, Knight, Len, Warren
8. OKC: Adams, Abrines, Grant, Oladipo, Payne, Sabonis
9. Knicks: Hernangomez, Porky
10. Magic: Biyombo, Fournier, Gordon, Hezonja, Payton

Top 3 IMO are certainly any combination of Minny, 76ers, and Bucks. Bucks have the all-star, Minny has 2 ROY winners, and the 76ers have the likely current ROY (plus several lottery picks this year). The Jazz have some excellent player too. Lakers/Nuggets are probably close together, with Jokic currently being the best player out of the two teams.

Lakers have the 5th best young core under 25. Is that good enough to build on?
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2 Max Scenarios:

-JC out for $0/Deng stretched = 57.6m in 2018 cap space
-Same as above and Jules renounced/traded for $0 = 69.9m in 2018 cap space

2 of 4 of these players will be Lakers in 2018 (LBJ/PG13/WB/Boogie)
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 11:26 am    Post subject:

76ers have a lot of redundancy built in - they'll need to make some trades, but that is a good core of assets to build from. Minny is a good core, but the culture/coaching - to me - is a cancerous drain on both asset longevity and growth. Bucks are fire, but Brogdon is overrated (and already 24). Jazz -- meh, I think Gobert's about the only standout. Exum - lol. Favors, Lyles - also lol. Hood is okay.

I think our core, though perhaps not the best right now, has the most potential in that they can play together and have positional versatility. The ability to complement each other and make each other better is the comparative advantage of our core. Realistically, in two years, our starting line up could be DLO, Ingram, Jules, Zubac, RandomSg, with JC and Nance off the bench (or whatever combo you prefer; you could start JC and Nance, bring Jules off the bench, etc). That post also neglects the most important member of our core --- Luke.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 11:27 am    Post subject: Re: Lakers Have the 5th Best Young Core (25 or Under)

yinoma2001 wrote:
I made a post about a year ago concerning young emerging cores (I couldnít find it in the archives). So, now that we have a bit of more information, letís compare some young cores (age 25 or under). Hereís how Iíve rated them:

1. Minny: KAT, Dunn, Wiggins, Jones, Lavine, Muhammad
2. 76ers: Embiid, Simmons, Saric, Noel, Okafor, TLC, Stauskas
3. Bucks: Giannis, Brogdon, Thon, Middleton, Parker, Snell
4. Jazz: Exum, Favors, Gobert, Hood, Lyles
5. Lakers: DLO, Ingram, Jules, JC, Nance, Zubac
6. Nuggets: Harris, Jokic, Nurkic, Mudiay, Murray
7. Suns: Bender, Booker, Chriss, Knight, Len, Warren
8. OKC: Adams, Abrines, Grant, Oladipo, Payne, Sabonis
9. Knicks: Hernangomez, Porky
10. Magic: Biyombo, Fournier, Gordon, Hezonja, Payton

Top 3 IMO are certainly any combination of Minny, 76ers, and Bucks. Bucks have the all-star, Minny has 2 ROY winners, and the 76ers have the likely current ROY (plus several lottery picks this year). The Jazz have some excellent player too. Lakers/Nuggets are probably close together, with Jokic currently being the best player out of the two teams.

Lakers have the 5th best young core under 25. Is that good enough to build on?


The Jazz core is on the older side for a "young core", once our guys get to that age, id take us. I agree with your top 3 though. Sixers may have the 2 best players(embiid and Simmons) not named Giannias and a bunch of solid assets around them. With that said, I'd still probably take the Bucks over them.

1) Bucks
2) Sixers
3) Wolves
4) Lakers
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 11:28 am    Post subject: Re: Lakers Have the 5th Best Young Core (25 or Under)

yinoma2001 wrote:
I made a post about a year ago concerning young emerging cores (I couldnít find it in the archives). So, now that we have a bit of more information, letís compare some young cores (age 25 or under). Hereís how Iíve rated them:

1. Minny: KAT, Dunn, Wiggins, Jones, Lavine, Muhammad
2. 76ers: Embiid, Simmons, Saric, Noel, Okafor, TLC, Stauskas
3. Bucks: Giannis, Brogdon, Thon, Middleton, Parker, Snell
4. Jazz: Exum, Favors, Gobert, Hood, Lyles
5. Lakers: DLO, Ingram, Jules, JC, Nance, Zubac
6. Nuggets: Harris, Jokic, Nurkic, Mudiay, Murray
7. Suns: Bender, Booker, Chriss, Knight, Len, Warren
8. OKC: Adams, Abrines, Grant, Oladipo, Payne, Sabonis
9. Knicks: Hernangomez, Porky
10. Magic: Biyombo, Fournier, Gordon, Hezonja, Payton

Top 3 IMO are certainly any combination of Minny, 76ers, and Bucks. Bucks have the all-star, Minny has 2 ROY winners, and the 76ers have the likely current ROY (plus several lottery picks this year). The Jazz have some excellent player too. Lakers/Nuggets are probably close together, with Jokic currently being the best player out of the two teams.

Lakers have the 5th best young core under 25. Is that good enough to build on?


I judge young cores based on wins. Lakers at 4 or 5 seems fair. But I gotta put Jazz and Nuggets top 2 since they are playoff teams.
Minny and Philly are punished on my list for their combined 29-54 record.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 11:29 am    Post subject:

Cutheon wrote:
76ers have a lot of redundancy built in - they'll need to make some trades, but that is a good core of assets to build from. Minny is a good core, but the culture/coaching - to me - is a cancerous drain on both asset longevity and growth. Bucks are fire, but Brogdon is overrated (and already 24). Jazz -- meh, I think Gobert's about the only standout. Exum - lol. Favors, Lyles - also lol. Hood is okay.

I think our core, though perhaps not the best right now, has the most potential in that they can play together and have positional versatility. The ability to complement each other and make each other better is the comparative advantage of our core. Realistically, in two years, our starting line up could be DLO, Ingram, Jules, Zubac, RandomSg, with JC and Nance off the bench (or whatever combo you prefer; you could start JC and Nance, bring Jules off the bench, etc). That post also neglects the most important member of our core --- Luke.


This is just a snapshot and less with future projection per se, as the 76ers still have 2 likely lottery picks this year to add to their treasure trove and will likely move on from 1 or both of Noel/Oak and get other pieces.

Bucks have an all-star starter, and another who is playing at a very high level in Parker. So I give a good deal of present day weight to that.

But the Lakers have a really nice core that seems to fit together. The only missing piece is a stretch big.
_________________
2 Max Scenarios:

-JC out for $0/Deng stretched = 57.6m in 2018 cap space
-Same as above and Jules renounced/traded for $0 = 69.9m in 2018 cap space

2 of 4 of these players will be Lakers in 2018 (LBJ/PG13/WB/Boogie)
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 11:35 am    Post subject: Re: Lakers Have the 5th Best Young Core (25 or Under)

yinoma2001 wrote:


Lakers have the 5th best young core under 25. Is that good enough to build on?


I suppose it depends on what we are trying to build. If it's a championship, you typically need a Top 5 player in the league plus 1 or 2 other star players. Unless one of our guys makes a major leap we are quite a ways away.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 11:42 am    Post subject: Re: Lakers Have the 5th Best Young Core (25 or Under)

ocho wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:


Lakers have the 5th best young core under 25. Is that good enough to build on?


I suppose it depends on what we are trying to build. If it's a championship, you typically need a Top 5 player in the league plus 1 or 2 other star players. Unless one of our guys makes a major leap we are quite a ways away.


Agreed. Which is why this is only a snapshot. I think I had us around #5 last year too, but the top 3 solidified their spots this year. I think 76ers, Bucks, TWolves have several stars on their teams.

Lakers are still in TBD mode. I'm not writing off star potential for DLO/Ingram/Jules but they're certainly not there yet.
_________________
2 Max Scenarios:

-JC out for $0/Deng stretched = 57.6m in 2018 cap space
-Same as above and Jules renounced/traded for $0 = 69.9m in 2018 cap space

2 of 4 of these players will be Lakers in 2018 (LBJ/PG13/WB/Boogie)
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 11:42 am    Post subject:

I'd take our core over the Jazz. Our young guys have a lot to prove before they leapfrog Minny, Milwaukee, and even Philly. Embiid looks really good, and I'm sure Simmons will come out of the gate strong.
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Last edited by oldschool32 on Fri Jan 20, 2017 11:58 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 11:43 am    Post subject: Re: Lakers Have the 5th Best Young Core (25 or Under)

kikanga wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
I made a post about a year ago concerning young emerging cores (I couldnít find it in the archives). So, now that we have a bit of more information, letís compare some young cores (age 25 or under). Hereís how Iíve rated them:

1. Minny: KAT, Dunn, Wiggins, Jones, Lavine, Muhammad
2. 76ers: Embiid, Simmons, Saric, Noel, Okafor, TLC, Stauskas
3. Bucks: Giannis, Brogdon, Thon, Middleton, Parker, Snell
4. Jazz: Exum, Favors, Gobert, Hood, Lyles
5. Lakers: DLO, Ingram, Jules, JC, Nance, Zubac
6. Nuggets: Harris, Jokic, Nurkic, Mudiay, Murray
7. Suns: Bender, Booker, Chriss, Knight, Len, Warren
8. OKC: Adams, Abrines, Grant, Oladipo, Payne, Sabonis
9. Knicks: Hernangomez, Porky
10. Magic: Biyombo, Fournier, Gordon, Hezonja, Payton

Top 3 IMO are certainly any combination of Minny, 76ers, and Bucks. Bucks have the all-star, Minny has 2 ROY winners, and the 76ers have the likely current ROY (plus several lottery picks this year). The Jazz have some excellent player too. Lakers/Nuggets are probably close together, with Jokic currently being the best player out of the two teams.

Lakers have the 5th best young core under 25. Is that good enough to build on?


I judge young cores based on wins. Lakers at 4 or 5 seems fair. But I gotta put Jazz and Nuggets top 2 since they are playoff teams.
Minny and Philly are punished on my list for their combined 29-54 record.


The problem is with the Nuggets, how much of that is solely b/c of their young guys? Jokic, no doubt, but Mudiay/Murray have been inconsistent all year. Chandler/Danilo, etc. are vets who have played well.
_________________
2 Max Scenarios:

-JC out for $0/Deng stretched = 57.6m in 2018 cap space
-Same as above and Jules renounced/traded for $0 = 69.9m in 2018 cap space

2 of 4 of these players will be Lakers in 2018 (LBJ/PG13/WB/Boogie)
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 11:45 am    Post subject:

The players I would want the most to build around are Towns, Embiid, Simmons, Porzingis and Giannis. Knowing that I would take Philly's young guys to build a contender if I had a choice.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 11:48 am    Post subject: Re: Lakers Have the 5th Best Young Core (25 or Under)

yinoma2001 wrote:
kikanga wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
I made a post about a year ago concerning young emerging cores (I couldnít find it in the archives). So, now that we have a bit of more information, letís compare some young cores (age 25 or under). Hereís how Iíve rated them:

1. Minny: KAT, Dunn, Wiggins, Jones, Lavine, Muhammad
2. 76ers: Embiid, Simmons, Saric, Noel, Okafor, TLC, Stauskas
3. Bucks: Giannis, Brogdon, Thon, Middleton, Parker, Snell
4. Jazz: Exum, Favors, Gobert, Hood, Lyles
5. Lakers: DLO, Ingram, Jules, JC, Nance, Zubac
6. Nuggets: Harris, Jokic, Nurkic, Mudiay, Murray
7. Suns: Bender, Booker, Chriss, Knight, Len, Warren
8. OKC: Adams, Abrines, Grant, Oladipo, Payne, Sabonis
9. Knicks: Hernangomez, Porky
10. Magic: Biyombo, Fournier, Gordon, Hezonja, Payton

Top 3 IMO are certainly any combination of Minny, 76ers, and Bucks. Bucks have the all-star, Minny has 2 ROY winners, and the 76ers have the likely current ROY (plus several lottery picks this year). The Jazz have some excellent player too. Lakers/Nuggets are probably close together, with Jokic currently being the best player out of the two teams.

Lakers have the 5th best young core under 25. Is that good enough to build on?


I judge young cores based on wins. Lakers at 4 or 5 seems fair. But I gotta put Jazz and Nuggets top 2 since they are playoff teams.
Minny and Philly are punished on my list for their combined 29-54 record.


The problem is with the Nuggets, how much of that is solely b/c of their young guys? Jokic, no doubt, but Mudiay/Murray have been inconsistent all year. Chandler/Danilo, etc. are vets who have played well.


There are talented young cores who underachieve all the time. Put up great individual stats but are useless as a whole
There are teams that mix young and old talent and don't win games. PHX, NY, Magic come to mind.
Can't give credit for putting up pretty stats in loses. It's why I currently have DLO > Booker. DLO's been a part of more winning basketball this year. Even if he isn't dropping crazy stats as frequently as Booker.
At the end of the day it's about wins. It's why I prefer Conley over flashy guards like Bledsoe.
When healthy, Denver normally starts 3 young guys. And they collectively have a playoff win percentage. Denver has actually been worse this year when Gary Harris hasn't played (which has been alot).
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Last edited by kikanga on Fri Jan 20, 2017 11:51 am; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 11:49 am    Post subject:

The rough "tiers" I would have:

Tier 1: 76ers, Minny, Bucks, Utah

Tier 2: Lakers, Nuggets

Tier 3: PHX, OKC, Knicks, Magic.
_________________
2 Max Scenarios:

-JC out for $0/Deng stretched = 57.6m in 2018 cap space
-Same as above and Jules renounced/traded for $0 = 69.9m in 2018 cap space

2 of 4 of these players will be Lakers in 2018 (LBJ/PG13/WB/Boogie)
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 11:57 am    Post subject: Re: Lakers Have the 5th Best Young Core (25 or Under)

yinoma2001 wrote:
Lakers have the 5th best young core under 25. Is that good enough to build on?


No. Right now, we're still determining what are guys can do and who is worth keeping. I wouldn't say we're at the point of knowing who we can build around. There isn't a single guy on this roster who I am confident will still be on the team and be an important piece 2 or 3 years from now.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 11:59 am    Post subject: Re: Lakers Have the 5th Best Young Core (25 or Under)

yinoma2001 wrote:
ocho wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:


Lakers have the 5th best young core under 25. Is that good enough to build on?


I suppose it depends on what we are trying to build. If it's a championship, you typically need a Top 5 player in the league plus 1 or 2 other star players. Unless one of our guys makes a major leap we are quite a ways away.


Agreed. Which is why this is only a snapshot. I think I had us around #5 last year too, but the top 3 solidified their spots this year. I think 76ers, Bucks, TWolves have several stars on their teams.

Lakers are still in TBD mode. I'm not writing off star potential for DLO/Ingram/Jules but they're certainly not there yet.


Even if the Bucks only had Giannis or the Sixers only had Embiid, that puts them both pretty significantly ahead of us in my book.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 12:00 pm    Post subject: Re: Lakers Have the 5th Best Young Core (25 or Under)

ocho wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
ocho wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:


Lakers have the 5th best young core under 25. Is that good enough to build on?


I suppose it depends on what we are trying to build. If it's a championship, you typically need a Top 5 player in the league plus 1 or 2 other star players. Unless one of our guys makes a major leap we are quite a ways away.


Agreed. Which is why this is only a snapshot. I think I had us around #5 last year too, but the top 3 solidified their spots this year. I think 76ers, Bucks, TWolves have several stars on their teams.

Lakers are still in TBD mode. I'm not writing off star potential for DLO/Ingram/Jules but they're certainly not there yet.


Even if the Bucks only had Giannis or the Sixers only had Embiid, that puts them both pretty significantly ahead of us in my book.


Yeah. We're still aspiring to have players at that level. I'd put KAT in the same category.

Guys like Wiggins I have a few notches below and certainly not in the Giannis/Embiid/KAT group.
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2 Max Scenarios:

-JC out for $0/Deng stretched = 57.6m in 2018 cap space
-Same as above and Jules renounced/traded for $0 = 69.9m in 2018 cap space

2 of 4 of these players will be Lakers in 2018 (LBJ/PG13/WB/Boogie)
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 12:17 pm    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
The rough "tiers" I would have:

Tier 1: 76ers, Minny, Bucks, Utah

Tier 2: Lakers, Nuggets

Tier 3: PHX, OKC, Knicks, Magic.


I'd put Utah on Tier 2, put I agree with everything else
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 12:17 pm    Post subject: Re: Lakers Have the 5th Best Young Core (25 or Under)

yinoma2001 wrote:


Lakers have the 5th best young core under 25. Is that good enough to build on?


towards a championship? there's 2 title contenders this year in the entire league: Warriors and Cavs. that's the reality of the situation, not only do we not have enough to build on, every other team with except of 2 have NO SHOT at the championship.

NBA is a very sad sport to follow if you are caught up in the championship mentality.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 12:19 pm    Post subject: Re: Lakers Have the 5th Best Young Core (25 or Under)

kobetimeeverytime wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:


Lakers have the 5th best young core under 25. Is that good enough to build on?


towards a championship? there's 2 title contenders this year in the entire league: Warriors and Cavs. that's the reality of the situation, not only do we not have enough to build on, every other team with except of 2 have NO SHOT at the championship.

NBA is a very sad sport to follow if you are caught up in the championship mentality.


Which is why I'm comparing the under 25 cores since the Cavs window should pass in a few years. The Warriors on the other hand, that's going to be a big problem for the Lakers.
_________________
2 Max Scenarios:

-JC out for $0/Deng stretched = 57.6m in 2018 cap space
-Same as above and Jules renounced/traded for $0 = 69.9m in 2018 cap space

2 of 4 of these players will be Lakers in 2018 (LBJ/PG13/WB/Boogie)
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 12:21 pm    Post subject:

I've got Lakers behind the Nuggets. They have a Jokic. But it's close, their surrounding talent doesn't quite have the solid depth the Lakers' have.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 12:23 pm    Post subject:

justsomelakerfan wrote:
I've got Lakers behind the Nuggets. They have a Jokic. But it's close, their surrounding talent doesn't quite have the solid depth the Lakers' have.


Yeah, could go either way. If we had to draft Lakers/Nuggets, it would go:

1. Jokic
2-4. DLO/Ingram/Jules (whichever order)

Then you have a mix/match with the rest.
_________________
2 Max Scenarios:

-JC out for $0/Deng stretched = 57.6m in 2018 cap space
-Same as above and Jules renounced/traded for $0 = 69.9m in 2018 cap space

2 of 4 of these players will be Lakers in 2018 (LBJ/PG13/WB/Boogie)
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 12:26 pm    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
justsomelakerfan wrote:
I've got Lakers behind the Nuggets. They have a Jokic. But it's close, their surrounding talent doesn't quite have the solid depth the Lakers' have.


Yeah, could go either way. If we had to draft Lakers/Nuggets, it would go:

1. Jokic
2-4. DLO/Ingram/Jules (whichever order)

Then you have a mix/match with the rest.


Agreed. However having that superstar type talent in Jokic is what has them at the very mediocre eight seed right now. Gotta place them ahead of LAL, we're seeing what a player like Embiid can do for Philly, too. One guy can turn it around
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 12:26 pm    Post subject:

I agree with your rankings; however, Boston is going to be up there soon with a high chance of receiving a top 3 pick this year and likely another top 3 pick next year, to go along with Jaylen Brown's development.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 12:26 pm    Post subject:

I would definitely put Nuggets over LAL just based on Jokic, lol. Overall, can flip either team in ranking.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 12:28 pm    Post subject:

legend825 wrote:
I would definitely put Nuggets over LAL just based on Jokic, lol. Overall, can flip either team in ranking.


Yeah. Fair point. As this is only a snapshot of this year, that would make Denver ahead of the Lakers.

Long-term, I think we have a deeper and better core than the Nuggets.
_________________
2 Max Scenarios:

-JC out for $0/Deng stretched = 57.6m in 2018 cap space
-Same as above and Jules renounced/traded for $0 = 69.9m in 2018 cap space

2 of 4 of these players will be Lakers in 2018 (LBJ/PG13/WB/Boogie)
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 12:45 pm    Post subject:

The bucks are the only team I'd definitively put ahead of us.

Philly has a lot of talent, but until they make some trades, they've got too much redundancy. Embiid is the truth though.

Minny's young core is basically 3 scorers and not much else. As of right now not one player on that team looks like a lock to build around.

Denver has a few nice young pieces but outside of jokic, nothing to write home about.

Phx core is meh.

We can be put anywhere between any of those teams, but right now the bucks are the only ones that look like they've got a future contender between Giannis, Parker, Middleton, and maybe even that 40 year old rookie they got.
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