Lakers Have the 5th Best Young Core (25 or Under)
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Ujah's Goat
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 1:14 pm    Post subject: Re: Lakers Have the 5th Best Young Core (25 or Under)

activeverb wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Lakers have the 5th best young core under 25. Is that good enough to build on?


No. Right now, we're still determining what are guys can do and who is worth keeping. I wouldn't say we're at the point of knowing who we can build around. There isn't a single guy on this roster who I am confident will still be on the team and be an important piece 2 or 3 years from now.


+1 but I will admit that I am enamored by Ingram, Nance, and Zubac, and hope they are Lakers for a very long time.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 1:14 pm    Post subject:

DangeRuss wrote:
The bucks are the only team I'd definitively put ahead of us.

Philly has a lot of talent, but until they make some trades, they've got too much redundancy. Embiid is the truth though.

Minny's young core is basically 3 scorers and not much else. As of right now not one player on that team looks like a lock to build around.

Denver has a few nice young pieces but outside of jokic, nothing to write home about.

Phx core is meh.

We can be put anywhere between any of those teams, but right now the bucks are the only ones that look like they've got a future contender between Giannis, Parker, Middleton, and maybe even that 40 year old rookie they got.


In no order:

1. You said Bucks are definitively ahead of us. I agree.
2. Wiggins/Lavine are not just scorers, and KAT > our core.
3. Denver is in playoff contention, and Jokic > our core.
4. Philly has talent and is picking up steam, might chase playoffs once Simmons returns, and Embiid > our core.
5. Jazz are a 5th seed with their guys contributing. They are ahead of us.
6. OKC are a solid 7th with their guys contributing. As of now, they are better than us outright even if Westbrook leaves (I believe our guys have more potential, but there's no guarantee).
7. Porky > our core.

I think somewhere around 5th is a very reasonable ranking for our young core if you're not being a homer, though if I'm using the "25 and Under" definition I'd have us at 7th, tied with NYK.
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yinoma2001
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 1:19 pm    Post subject:

Ujah's Goat wrote:
DangeRuss wrote:
The bucks are the only team I'd definitively put ahead of us.

Philly has a lot of talent, but until they make some trades, they've got too much redundancy. Embiid is the truth though.

Minny's young core is basically 3 scorers and not much else. As of right now not one player on that team looks like a lock to build around.

Denver has a few nice young pieces but outside of jokic, nothing to write home about.

Phx core is meh.

We can be put anywhere between any of those teams, but right now the bucks are the only ones that look like they've got a future contender between Giannis, Parker, Middleton, and maybe even that 40 year old rookie they got.


In no order:

1. You said Bucks are definitively ahead of us. I agree.
2. Wiggins/Lavine are not just scorers, and KAT > our core.
3. Denver is in playoff contention, and Jokic > our core.
4. Philly has talent and is picking up steam, might chase playoffs once Simmons returns, and Embiid > our core.
5. Jazz are a 5th seed with their guys contributing. They are ahead of us.
6. OKC are a solid 7th with their guys contributing. As of now, they are better than us outright even if Westbrook leaves (I believe our guys have more potential, but there's no guarantee).
7. Porky > our core.

I think somewhere around 5th is a very reasonable ranking for our young core if you're not being a homer, though if I'm using the "25 and Under" definition I'd have us at 7th, tied with NYK.


5th-6th is probably right.

And again, just a snapshot for now, not long-term. Denver's playoff push should probably make them #5 on my list over the Lakers.

Long-term? Too soon to tell but I think #1-4 are firmly ahead of us right now.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 1:49 pm    Post subject:

I put Bucks and Wolves ahead, as both have 1 franchise player (Giannis is reality and KAT will be soon) and 2 very good players (Parker/Middleton and Wiggins/LaVine).

Philly has one big question mark called Simmons; I do expect him to be, at least, very good, but he's gotta play one NBA game yet. They have - most likely - their Franchise in Embiid, but the other 2 good names (Noel, Okafor) have the fitting problems we know. If Simmons prove to be very good, or even a Franchise, they can flip their other 2 bigs for someone good and take the front seat in the Young Core race.

Lakers fall a little behind as we still don't have a name to call Franchise Player. We have 3 players with that potential (Ingram, Russell, Randle) and if one of them evolve into a top player, than we're talking. We'd have a Franchise, 2-3 very good (maybe Zubac can get there) and 2-3 solid players in Nance, Clarkson and Zubac (again, depending on where the big boy will end). So, we have potential to be the best of the pack, but there's a big gap to cover; having a Franchise makes all the difference.

I like Utah's core but I wouldn't switch places. They have some talent, but I don't see a Franchise Player coming out of there. Gobert will be an All Star, but that's about it. No transcendent talent. I would place Denver ahead, just because of Jokic.

Phoenix is a mistery, I have no idea of what Bender and Chriss will be.

If I had to rank these Core, it would be:

1- Wolves
2- Bucks
3- Sixers
4- LAKERS
5- Nuggets
6- Jazz
7- Whatever...
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 1:56 pm    Post subject:

I like Zubac's upside more than Jokic.
Jokic will definitely be a better offensive player.
But Zubac's ability on defense is special. And he still has touch around the basket on O. Actually think he has the frame to be a better rebounder than Jokic too. And set much better screens. If the goal is playoff success. A two way Center is a must. Especially in the wild wild West.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 2:04 pm    Post subject:

Enough to build on...right now? No. However, I firmly believe that will change come next season. Reason? I believe Zubac will be a difference maker as he grows into his body, and the rest put in the work.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 2:16 pm    Post subject:

I would say the Bucks are #1 right now simply because Giannis.....thank god they took Jabari and not Embiid in 2014.....Giannis & Embid would just be stupid. Anyone know how the manchild Thon Maker is developing? I am just waiting for them to spring him on us in two years and he is close to Giannis.

I also think Towns will be really good, but got a little overrated last year. Future All-Star, for sure.....but I do not see his as carrying the "best player in league" tag during his career.
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ringfinger
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 2:37 pm    Post subject:

What's so interesting about this list, which I would say is fairly accurate give or take, is how quickly, with young players, the landscape can change.

Last season, you might have said we were one of the top 2 or 3. We've slipped.

Last season, we would not have had the Bucks and 76ers up there.
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jonnybravo
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 3:07 pm    Post subject:

DangeRuss wrote:
The bucks are the only team I'd definitively put ahead of us.

Philly has a lot of talent, but until they make some trades, they've got too much redundancy. Embiid is the truth though.

Minny's young core is basically 3 scorers and not much else. As of right now not one player on that team looks like a lock to build around.

Denver has a few nice young pieces but outside of jokic, nothing to write home about.

Phx core is meh.

We can be put anywhere between any of those teams, but right now the bucks are the only ones that look like they've got a future contender between Giannis, Parker, Middleton, and maybe even that 40 year old rookie they got.


Like Embiid, Kat alone makes Minny's core better than ours. I like the potential of our guys but not a single guy has yet broken out anywhere in the same solar system as him.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 3:07 pm    Post subject:

ringfinger wrote:
What's so interesting about this list, which I would say is fairly accurate give or take, is how quickly, with young players, the landscape can change.

Last season, you might have said we were one of the top 2 or 3. We've slipped.

Last season, we would not have had the Bucks and 76ers up there.


Yep great point. Who would have thought Embiid was THIS impactful so soon? Winning 7 of the last 8 games he's played in...jeez.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 3:08 pm    Post subject:

DangeRuss wrote:
The bucks are the only team I'd definitively put ahead of us.


We can be put anywhere between any of those teams, but right now the bucks are the only ones that look like they've got a future contender between Giannis, Parker, Middleton, and maybe even that 40 year old rookie they got.


Buck's Brogdon is also impressive. He dunked on Lebron and Kyrie on the same night. Hit clutch shots against the Spurs. Among the rookies I think he is rated number 1 this season.





Last edited by ryan_c on Fri Jan 20, 2017 3:13 pm; edited 3 times in total
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activeverb
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 3:09 pm    Post subject:

ringfinger wrote:
What's so interesting about this list, which I would say is fairly accurate give or take, is how quickly, with young players, the landscape can change.

Last season, you might have said we were one of the top 2 or 3. We've slipped.

Last season, we would not have had the Bucks and 76ers up there.


Sure. At first young players are gauged based on potential and projections of how will do. Quickly, actual performance is all that matters.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 3:11 pm    Post subject:

jonnybravo wrote:
DangeRuss wrote:
The bucks are the only team I'd definitively put ahead of us.

Philly has a lot of talent, but until they make some trades, they've got too much redundancy. Embiid is the truth though.

Minny's young core is basically 3 scorers and not much else. As of right now not one player on that team looks like a lock to build around.

Denver has a few nice young pieces but outside of jokic, nothing to write home about.

Phx core is meh.

We can be put anywhere between any of those teams, but right now the bucks are the only ones that look like they've got a future contender between Giannis, Parker, Middleton, and maybe even that 40 year old rookie they got.


Like Embiid, Kat alone makes Minny's core better than ours. I like the potential of our guys but not a single guy has yet broken out anywhere in the same solar system as him.


I agree and there are other young teams that are better than Lakers.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 3:19 pm    Post subject:

ringfinger wrote:
What's so interesting about this list, which I would say is fairly accurate give or take, is how quickly, with young players, the landscape can change.

Last season, you might have said we were one of the top 2 or 3. We've slipped.

Last season, we would not have had the Bucks and 76ers up there.

Not sure we would have been that high last season but I definitely agree with the landscape changing quickly.

I don't think there was any point at which Golden State was considered to have the most promising young core in the league and then they came out one year and won the championship. It's an outlier to be sure but the rule of sports and the NBA is stuff nobody predicted happens. Teams with cores like Portland, OKC, and Indiana all broke apart for different reasons when at one point it looked they would stay together. Denver has a potential franchise centerpiece because of a second round pick.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 3:20 pm    Post subject:

jonnybravo wrote:
DangeRuss wrote:
The bucks are the only team I'd definitively put ahead of us.

Philly has a lot of talent, but until they make some trades, they've got too much redundancy. Embiid is the truth though.

Minny's young core is basically 3 scorers and not much else. As of right now not one player on that team looks like a lock to build around.

Denver has a few nice young pieces but outside of jokic, nothing to write home about.

Phx core is meh.

We can be put anywhere between any of those teams, but right now the bucks are the only ones that look like they've got a future contender between Giannis, Parker, Middleton, and maybe even that 40 year old rookie they got.


Like Embiid, Kat alone makes Minny's core better than ours. I like the potential of our guys but not a single guy has yet broken out anywhere in the same solar system as him.


And the Knicks with Porzingis, maybe even Denver with Jokic. Getting that singular franchise player is the whole shebang, unless you can do it the hard way like Boston who may get one anyway through the draft this season.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 3:25 pm    Post subject:

It is worth saying....if Ingram breaks out late this year or next season, then a lot changes....or if Simmons struggles, or many other things could take place. We are currently not projected with a few teams, but nothing is set in stone....or even Play-Doh with young players.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 3:37 pm    Post subject:

ringfinger wrote:
What's so interesting about this list, which I would say is fairly accurate give or take, is how quickly, with young players, the landscape can change.

Last season, you might have said we were one of the top 2 or 3. We've slipped.

Last season, we would not have had the Bucks and 76ers up there.


I couldn't find my list from last year. I though I had the Lakers at 4 or 5. I could be wrong.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 3:40 pm    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
ringfinger wrote:
What's so interesting about this list, which I would say is fairly accurate give or take, is how quickly, with young players, the landscape can change.

Last season, you might have said we were one of the top 2 or 3. We've slipped.

Last season, we would not have had the Bucks and 76ers up there.


I couldn't find my list from last year. I though I had the Lakers at 4 or 5. I could be wrong.


if you did, you were on an island alone in this forum.....including me, seems like almost everyone was saying 2 or 3 at the lowest once we drafted Ingram. I think I said 2 behind TWolves.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 4:01 pm    Post subject: Re: Lakers Have the 5th Best Young Core (25 or Under)

Ujah's Goat wrote:
I will admit that I am enamored by Ingram, Nance, and Zubac, and hope they are Lakers for a very long time.


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PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 4:07 pm    Post subject:

Before at least one of our young players start showing some kind of superstar in the making numbers every team with a standout player like Embiid that you clearly can build around is ahead of us. At this point we are in NBA limbo with no young player able to land us a top free agent unless the most die hard fans would really believe someone is going to come just to play with Russell or Randle.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 4:08 pm    Post subject: Re: Lakers Have the 5th Best Young Core (25 or Under)

nash wrote:
Ujah's Goat wrote:
I will admit that I am enamored by Ingram, Nance, and Zubac, and hope they are Lakers for a very long time.


You are not alone


And not nearly enough if Dlo and Jules don't pan out.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 4:09 pm    Post subject: Re: Lakers Have the 5th Best Young Core (25 or Under)

yinoma2001 wrote:
I made a post about a year ago concerning young emerging cores (I couldn’t find it in the archives). So, now that we have a bit of more information, let’s compare some young cores (age 25 or under). Here’s how I’ve rated them:

1. Minny: KAT, Dunn, Wiggins, Jones, Lavine, Muhammad
2. 76ers: Embiid, Simmons, Saric, Noel, Okafor, TLC, Stauskas
3. Bucks: Giannis, Brogdon, Thon, Middleton, Parker, Snell
4. Jazz: Exum, Favors, Gobert, Hood, Lyles
5. Lakers: DLO, Ingram, Jules, JC, Nance, Zubac
6. Nuggets: Harris, Jokic, Nurkic, Mudiay, Murray
7. Suns: Bender, Booker, Chriss, Knight, Len, Warren
8. OKC: Adams, Abrines, Grant, Oladipo, Payne, Sabonis
9. Knicks: Hernangomez, Porky
10. Magic: Biyombo, Fournier, Gordon, Hezonja, Payton

Top 3 IMO are certainly any combination of Minny, 76ers, and Bucks. Bucks have the all-star, Minny has 2 ROY winners, and the 76ers have the likely current ROY (plus several lottery picks this year). The Jazz have some excellent player too. Lakers/Nuggets are probably close together, with Jokic currently being the best player out of the two teams.

Lakers have the 5th best young core under 25. Is that good enough to build on?
good post.

i think the wolves core is a bit overrated. Towns drew a lot od Duncan comparisons on this message board during his rookie season, but he's not in Duncan's league defensively. Embiid is a stronger prospect than him if health permits. Also, Dunn isn't looking too impressive for a 22 year old rookie, he is a dreadful shooter. 43.6 TS%, 27% from three point land, 61% from the free throw line...He's not very good in my opinion. Minny should have drafted buddy hield, who has shot 46.4 % from 3 on 5 attempts over his last 23 games.

I like our core better than Minny's. Philly though are sitting pretty if Simmons lives up to the hype. Embiid will be a top 5 player.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 4:17 pm    Post subject:

Just wondering, Bucks should have Knight in their Young Core, haven't they traded him for MCW and Plumlee.
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 4:21 pm    Post subject: Re: Lakers Have the 5th Best Young Core (25 or Under)

yinoma2001 wrote:
nash wrote:
Ujah's Goat wrote:
I will admit that I am enamored by Ingram, Nance, and Zubac, and hope they are Lakers for a very long time.


You are not alone


And not nearly enough if Dlo and Jules don't pan out.


It may be enough with Ingram and Zubac panning out. What we need is at least one of our young players to start posting great numbers. While they are not, we have our favorites
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yinoma2001
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PostPosted: Fri Jan 20, 2017 4:24 pm    Post subject: Re: Lakers Have the 5th Best Young Core (25 or Under)

nash wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
nash wrote:
Ujah's Goat wrote:
I will admit that I am enamored by Ingram, Nance, and Zubac, and hope they are Lakers for a very long time.


You are not alone


And not nearly enough if Dlo and Jules don't pan out.


It may be enough with Ingram and Zubac panning out. What we need is at least one of our young players to start posting great numbers. While they are not, we have our favorites


No. It's a fact. Those two aren't nearly enough. To have a 2nd and 7th pick not pan out is disastrous.
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