Lakers Have the 5th Best Young Core (25 or Under)
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adkindo
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2018 1:23 pm    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
Having said all of that, I think that you are learning that the rest of the NBA public is not as infatuated with our young core as some Laker fans are. That may piss you off, but it's a reality. While I am more bullish on our prospects, the assessment quoted above could very well turn out to be true.


do you know who your addressing? I am probably in the lower 25% of LG about my feeling in regards to our young players. Nobody would call me extremely bullish on any of our guys. That being said, I do not think 4th or 5th is the likely outcome for all of our young guys, especially Ingram....nor do I think anyone can feel strong in that evaluation of 20,21 and 22 year olds that have been in the league less than a year or two. Still my criticism is more in how they were not this critical of other teams ahead of us in their opinion.

In regards to podcasts....I love them because I can listen to them in the car, while I am doing things outside in the yard, grocery shopping, etc......and just a tip, listen to them on at least 1.25 speed.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2018 1:25 pm    Post subject:

scooterp10 wrote:
Inspector Gadget wrote:
Lakers young core is ahead of the curve, the Wolves and Sixers last year had a nice young core but were struggling to win games, this Lakers team has a core in which the FO can choose to develop while still win at the same time, the Wolves and Sixers knew they had to go out and get vets to win games, the Lakers have the luxury of keeping the young core intact punt for 2019 and still end up winning 45-50 games next year...


My ideal situation:

Add only one Max this off-season - PG13
LeBron goes to Philadelphia and can’t co-exist with Simmons and implodes.
Keep Julius on a team friendly contract. (but I’m keeping him regardless of what is offered.)
Sign IT to a 1-year large money deal and he returns to Boston form.
Keep Brook on a mid-level
Cavs miss playoffs all together and we win the lottery, #1 pick and grab Ayton.
Team stays healthy all year.
Beat Houston & Golden State, Win Championship

2019 - Trade Deng with some combination of pick(s) and Zubac.

Sky is the limit


I was nodding in agreement until Cavs miss playoffs
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tox
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2018 1:30 pm    Post subject:

Not sure who's better. Here are the ones you can argue:
Sixers if you trust the health of Embiid?
Bucks/Pels just because Giannis and AD?
Wolves/Nuggets because of KAT/Jokic?

Love em both but I hesitate to put BI and Zo on that caliber yet.

If we're talking full young cores, vs. a single superstar prospect, it's just the Sixers right?
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Aeneas Hunter
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2018 1:37 pm    Post subject:

adkindo wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
Having said all of that, I think that you are learning that the rest of the NBA public is not as infatuated with our young core as some Laker fans are. That may piss you off, but it's a reality. While I am more bullish on our prospects, the assessment quoted above could very well turn out to be true.


do you know who your addressing? I am probably in the lower 25% of LG about my feeling in regards to our young players. Nobody would call me extremely bullish on any of our guys. That being said, I do not think 4th or 5th is the likely outcome for all of our young guys, especially Ingram....nor do I think anyone can feel strong in that evaluation of 20,21 and 22 year olds that have been in the league less than a year or two. Still my criticism is more in how they were not this critical of other teams ahead of us in their opinion.

In regards to podcasts....I love them because I can listen to them in the car, while I am doing things outside in the yard, grocery shopping, etc......and just a tip, listen to them on at least 1.25 speed.


It may not be the likely outcome, but it is a distinctly possible outcome. If you listen to enough podcasts, you'll find someone who takes about every conceivable position. I listen to podcasts only when there is an interview that I want to hear. Otherwise, I find them to be valueless.
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scooterp10
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2018 1:38 pm    Post subject:

BizLA wrote:
scooterp10 wrote:
Inspector Gadget wrote:
Lakers young core is ahead of the curve, the Wolves and Sixers last year had a nice young core but were struggling to win games, this Lakers team has a core in which the FO can choose to develop while still win at the same time, the Wolves and Sixers knew they had to go out and get vets to win games, the Lakers have the luxury of keeping the young core intact punt for 2019 and still end up winning 45-50 games next year...


My ideal situation:

Add only one Max this off-season - PG13
LeBron goes to Philadelphia and can’t co-exist with Simmons and implodes.
Keep Julius on a team friendly contract. (but I’m keeping him regardless of what is offered.)
Sign IT to a 1-year large money deal and he returns to Boston form.
Keep Brook on a mid-level
Cavs miss playoffs all together and we win the lottery, #1 pick and grab Ayton.
Team stays healthy all year.
Beat Houston & Golden State, Win Championship

2019 - Trade Deng with some combination of pick(s) and Zubac.

Sky is the limit


I was nodding in agreement until Cavs miss playoffs


Lol, I know it’s no happening, but it would be awesome if it did. 😂
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av3773
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2018 1:40 pm    Post subject:

If we are looking depth I'd put the Lakers at 1

Randle
Kuzma
Hart
Ball
BI

Not sure if another team has an equivalent number of young talent....that's 3 starters and 2 primary rotation players and all 5 actually contibute
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activeverb
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2018 1:40 pm    Post subject:

tox wrote:
Not sure who's better. Here are the ones you can argue:
Sixers if you trust the health of Embiid?
Bucks/Pels just because Giannis and AD?
Wolves/Nuggets because of KAT/Jokic?

Love em both but I hesitate to put BI and Zo on that caliber yet.

If we're talking full young cores, vs. a single superstar prospect, it's just the Sixers right?



I'm not sure why people don't include Boston. Some people want to count Kyrie Irving as not part of "the young core" because he's about to turn 26, which seems silly to me.

It just seems like tortuous semantics to pretend that a Kyle Kuzma is part of a young team but Kyrie Irving isn't.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2018 1:41 pm    Post subject:

tox wrote:
Not sure who's better. Here are the ones you can argue:
Sixers if you trust the health of Embiid?
Bucks/Pels just because Giannis and AD?
Wolves/Nuggets because of KAT/Jokic?

Love em both but I hesitate to put BI and Zo on that caliber yet.

If we're talking full young cores, vs. a single superstar prospect, it's just the Sixers right?


gary harris and jamal murray are also very good young players for the nuggets.

personally i think it's something like this?

tier 1:
sixers/nuggets

tier 2:
milwaukee/minnesota/boston

tier 3:
lakers/jazz

tier 4:
suns/knicks/nets
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 02, 2018 2:55 pm    Post subject: Re: Lakers Have the 5th Best Young Core (25 or Under)

yinoma2001 wrote:
I made a post about a year ago concerning young emerging cores (I couldn’t find it in the archives). So, now that we have a bit of more information, let’s compare some young cores (age 25 or under). Here’s how I’ve rated them:

1. Minny: KAT, Dunn, Wiggins, Jones, Lavine, Muhammad
2. 76ers: Embiid, Simmons, Saric, Noel, Okafor, TLC, Stauskas
3. Bucks: Giannis, Brogdon, Thon, Middleton, Parker, Snell
4. Jazz: Exum, Favors, Gobert, Hood, Lyles
5. Lakers: DLO, Ingram, Jules, JC, Nance, Zubac
6. Nuggets: Harris, Jokic, Nurkic, Mudiay, Murray
7. Suns: Bender, Booker, Chriss, Knight, Len, Warren
8. OKC: Adams, Abrines, Grant, Oladipo, Payne, Sabonis
9. Knicks: Hernangomez, Porky
10. Magic: Biyombo, Fournier, Gordon, Hezonja, Payton

Top 3 IMO are certainly any combination of Minny, 76ers, and Bucks. Bucks have the all-star, Minny has 2 ROY winners, and the 76ers have the likely current ROY (plus several lottery picks this year). The Jazz have some excellent player too. Lakers/Nuggets are probably close together, with Jokic currently being the best player out of the two teams.

Lakers have the 5th best young core under 25. Is that good enough to build on?


Lakers are the YOUNG 2010 Thunder team that took the Lakers on in the playoffs

WB = Ball
Ibaka = JR
KD = BI
Harden=Kuzma
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cal1piggy
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2018 3:55 pm    Post subject:

44TheLogo wrote:
tox wrote:
Not sure who's better. Here are the ones you can argue:
Sixers if you trust the health of Embiid?
Bucks/Pels just because Giannis and AD?
Wolves/Nuggets because of KAT/Jokic?

Love em both but I hesitate to put BI and Zo on that caliber yet.

If we're talking full young cores, vs. a single superstar prospect, it's just the Sixers right?


gary harris and jamal murray are also very good young players for the nuggets.

personally i think it's something like this?

tier 1:
sixers/nuggets

tier 2:
milwaukee/minnesota/boston

tier 3:
lakers/jazz

tier 4:
suns/knicks/nets


imo, big stars like embiid and antetokounmpo are equivalent to about 2 young stars. though antetokounmpo > embiid due to health risk

Tier 1
sixers (simmons, embiid, saric, fultz?)

Tier 2
lakers (ball, bi, kuz, randle)
boston (smart, rozier, tatum, brown; cannot include irving at ~26)

Tier 3
milwaukee (antetokounmpo, parker)
minnesota (towns, wiggins)
denver (murray, jokic, harris)
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2018 6:19 pm    Post subject:

Here is a fun fact, with 20-something games left in the season, over at RealGM.com they have a poll to vote on which of the 8 teams listed will have the worst record in the NBA this year...

And the Lakers are NOT even listed, so we are starting to get some respect...!


LINK: https://basketball.realgm.com/
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2018 9:44 pm    Post subject:

So where are we now? Randle/Kuzma/Ingram/Hart/Ball////Zu.

Of the teams listed, I put that core only behind Embiid/Simmons. Minny traded Dunn/LaVine and Wiggins has regressed. Injury concerns with Jabari Parker, no progress from Thon.
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2018 9:47 pm    Post subject:

Zo better than all.
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2018 9:48 pm    Post subject:

Forgot about Denver. Jokic/Lyles(playing great)/Harris/Murray. I wold put that core above the Lakers too right now.
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PostPosted: Sat Mar 03, 2018 11:31 pm    Post subject:

dcarter4kobe wrote:
Forgot about Denver. Jokic/Lyles(playing great)/Harris/Murray. I wold put that core above the Lakers too right now.

Agree, but BI and Ball has better chance of being a super star than all 4 of the nugget players
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2018 8:45 am    Post subject:

2017-2018 Per 36 Min. Stats:
Nuggets (Harris/Murray/Jokic/Lyles; 21.8 YO): 75.9 PPG (59.4 TS%), 27.9 RPG, 15.9 APG
76ers (Simmons/Saric/Embiid/Fultz; 21.5 YO): 71.6 PPG (51.7 TS%), 33.4 RPG, 17.8 APG
Suns (Booker/Jackson/Bender/Warren; 21.3 YO): 74.7 PPG (52.7 TS%), 22.8 RPG, 10.6 APG
Lakers (Ball/Ingram/Randle/Kuzma; 21.3 YO): 68.9 PPG (53.5 TS%), 31.4 RPG, 17.4 APG

I think you'd be hard pressed to not say that Philly has the best core for now, especially if Fultz becomes something. However, all of these teams are relatively comparable offensively. Defensively, though, I think our four players have the most defensive potential from what I've seen. Whereas Ingram, Ball and Randle all project as plus defenders, only the same can be said, IMO, for Jackson on Phoenix and Embiid on Philly.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2018 9:00 am    Post subject:

LakerSanity wrote:
2017-2018 Per 36 Min. Stats:
Nuggets (Harris/Murray/Jokic/Lyles; 21.8 YO): 75.9 PPG (59.4 TS%), 27.9 RPG, 15.9 APG
76ers (Simmons/Saric/Embiid/Fultz; 21.5 YO): 71.6 PPG (51.7 TS%), 33.4 RPG, 17.8 APG
Suns (Booker/Jackson/Bender/Warren; 21.3 YO): 74.7 PPG (52.7 TS%), 22.8 RPG, 10.6 APG
Lakers (Ball/Ingram/Randle/Kuzma; 21.3 YO): 68.9 PPG (53.5 TS%), 31.4 RPG, 17.4 APG

I think you'd be hard pressed to not say that Philly has the best core for now, especially if Fultz becomes something. However, all of these teams are relatively comparable offensively. Defensively, though, I think our four players have the most defensive potential from what I've seen. Whereas Ingram, Ball and Randle all project as plus defenders, only the same can be said, IMO, for Jackson on Phoenix and Embiid on Philly.


I really think that's the difference. I also think you add in Hart, Zu, TBryant and it catapults us to the top.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2018 9:03 am    Post subject:

CervantesRises wrote:
LakerSanity wrote:
2017-2018 Per 36 Min. Stats:
Nuggets (Harris/Murray/Jokic/Lyles; 21.8 YO): 75.9 PPG (59.4 TS%), 27.9 RPG, 15.9 APG
76ers (Simmons/Saric/Embiid/Fultz; 21.5 YO): 71.6 PPG (51.7 TS%), 33.4 RPG, 17.8 APG
Suns (Booker/Jackson/Bender/Warren; 21.3 YO): 74.7 PPG (52.7 TS%), 22.8 RPG, 10.6 APG
Lakers (Ball/Ingram/Randle/Kuzma; 21.3 YO): 68.9 PPG (53.5 TS%), 31.4 RPG, 17.4 APG

I think you'd be hard pressed to not say that Philly has the best core for now, especially if Fultz becomes something. However, all of these teams are relatively comparable offensively. Defensively, though, I think our four players have the most defensive potential from what I've seen. Whereas Ingram, Ball and Randle all project as plus defenders, only the same can be said, IMO, for Jackson on Phoenix and Embiid on Philly.


I really think that's the difference. I also think you add in Hart, Zu, TBryant and it catapults us to the top.


All of those teams have more young guys to add too. We're talking about core players, the ones likely to stick around and be the center pieces of the team. That may be the case for Hart eventually if he shows more, but isn't right now. Definitely not the case for Zu or Bryant.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2018 9:16 am    Post subject:

Out of all these young cores:

1. best inside scorer - embiid, randle, jokic, towns - i would put embiid 1st but probably randle 2nd
2. best shooter - booker, who else?
3. best switching defender - not sure but lakers are up there with randle
4. best assist - ball, simmons - who is 1st?
5. best rebounder - embiid, randle, who else
6. best pick and roll - not sure
7. best drive/scorer - giannis, bi, who else? giannis 1st.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2018 9:22 am    Post subject:

In regards to Minnesota, I'd take Ball, Ingram and Randle all over Wiggins right now. I think each are better players than him TODAY. As for Towns, if you asked me to trade Ingram or Ball for Towns, I'd say no. I think both end up being better players in the long run assuming fair health. I know this is completely subjective, but there is something about Towns that rubs me the wrong way.. I imagine in the same way those who were down on DLO felt.

For different reasons, I'm also not high on Porzingis. Maybe its because both Towns and Porzingis come off as empty stats guys to me. I'm much, much higher on Embiid than I am either Towns or Porzingis. I think his play translates to wins.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2018 9:28 am    Post subject:

cal1piggy wrote:
Out of all these young cores:

1. best inside scorer - embiid, randle, jokic, towns - i would put embiid 1st but probably randle 2nd
2. best shooter - booker, who else?
3. best switching defender - not sure but lakers are up there with randle
4. best assist - ball, simmons - who is 1st?
5. best rebounder - embiid, randle, who else
6. best pick and roll - not sure
7. best drive/scorer - giannis, bi, who else? giannis 1st.


Jokic is arguably the best passer and rebounder.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 04, 2018 10:24 am    Post subject:

mad55557777 wrote:
dcarter4kobe wrote:
Forgot about Denver. Jokic/Lyles(playing great)/Harris/Murray. I wold put that core above the Lakers too right now.

Agree, but BI and Ball has better chance of being a super star than all 4 of the nugget players


Hmmm...

Denver has a great core. Better than Minny's last year.

I've got Lakers behind Philly and Denver, but not far behind Denver.

I think Phoenix is really underrated around here. They need to put some structure around Booker, Warren, Jackson, another top pick and go. Unfortunately I have always liked that sob Devin Booker
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 11:35 am    Post subject:

Only posting this for fun, since ESPN should always be taken with a grain of salt...

http://www.espn.com/nba/insider/story/_/id/22665881/ranking-giannis-antetokounmpo-anthony-davis-25-best-nba-players-25

I'll just show the Laker rankings, since I'm not sure if it's okay to reveal the entire article here:

Overall Average
16. BI
17. Lonzo (tied with Adams)
23. Kuz (tied with Wiggins)

Individual Rankings:
Sean Marks - BI @ 17, Jules @ 22, Lonzo ( )/Kuz unranked
Kevin Pelton - Lonzo @ 9, BI @ 24
Chris Herring - BI @ 6, Kuz @ 15, Lonzo @ 23

To give this some context, AD, Giannis, Beal, Drummond, Steven Adams, Otto Porter, and Capela are all under 25, so most of these guys are occupying the top spots. Add to that the established younger stars in Embiid, KAT, Jokic, Porzingis (eh), Booker, and Simmons.

But freakin' Marks had Josh Richardson ranked at 25 over Lonzo. Pelton has Fred VanVleet at 25. Herring has Tyus Jones at 24, one spot below Lonzo. Are they just trying to troll everyone at this point?
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tox
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 11:41 am    Post subject:

activeverb wrote:
tox wrote:
Not sure who's better. Here are the ones you can argue:
Sixers if you trust the health of Embiid?
Bucks/Pels just because Giannis and AD?
Wolves/Nuggets because of KAT/Jokic?

Love em both but I hesitate to put BI and Zo on that caliber yet.

If we're talking full young cores, vs. a single superstar prospect, it's just the Sixers right?



I'm not sure why people don't include Boston. Some people want to count Kyrie Irving as not part of "the young core" because he's about to turn 26, which seems silly to me.

It just seems like tortuous semantics to pretend that a Kyle Kuzma is part of a young team but Kyrie Irving isn't.

I honestly forgot about the Celtics, because they're a contender.
I don't know about Kyrie, he's like 26, but it's all arbitrary in the end.

I can amend my original post to be under 25. Arbitrary cutoff point, sure, but one we need because if we count Kyrie at age 26, why not (e.g.) George at 27 if we get him?
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 07, 2018 11:45 am    Post subject:

44TheLogo wrote:
tox wrote:
Not sure who's better. Here are the ones you can argue:
Sixers if you trust the health of Embiid?
Bucks/Pels just because Giannis and AD?
Wolves/Nuggets because of KAT/Jokic?

Love em both but I hesitate to put BI and Zo on that caliber yet.

If we're talking full young cores, vs. a single superstar prospect, it's just the Sixers right?


gary harris and jamal murray are also very good young players for the nuggets.

personally i think it's something like this?

tier 1:
sixers/nuggets

tier 2:
milwaukee/minnesota/boston

tier 3:
lakers/jazz

tier 4:
suns/knicks/nets

I think that's reasonable. I'm not sure about Minnesota though. They are really bad without Jimmy Butler, so how good is that core really? I mean yeah Towns is a monster statistically but the rest of their young core leaves a lot to be desired.

I forgot Gobert is 25 so the Jazz is a good point, alongside Mitchell.

Anyway can't argue with this at all
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