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samwowmar5
Sixth Man
Joined: 25 Jan 2017
Posts: 33
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 Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2017 8:57 pm Post subject: |
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| scoobs wrote: | | samwowmar5 wrote: | | If we end up getting a top 3 pick....who do you want? Ball/Fultz/Monk/other? |
Im torn between Ball and Fultz. Ball reminds me of one of my favorite all time players, Jason Kidd. He looks like Kevin Martin out there with his shot though, which i cant stand. Is he Jason Kidd or Kendall Marshall? Fultz reminds me of Dwayne Wade, but is he Dwayne Wade or Jordan Clarkson? |
I think Ball>Fultz. Ball can drive better and facilitate plus hit those long 3's. Fultz is really fast and flashy. I pay a good amount of attention to Pac 12 bball... |
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babyskyhook
Franchise Player
Joined: 15 Jul 2009
Posts: 18492
Location: The Garden Island
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| Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2017 10:26 pm Post subject: |
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| davidse wrote: |
No half measures.
Trade both.
Pick is too important for this team's chances of competing for an nba title in the next decade.
Lose those two and the tank is looking much MUCH better, not to mention you're not just giving them away, but actually getting back assets that will be more helpful to the team than those two players - when it actually means something - several years from now.
Just think about Swaggy catching fire and helping us win a couple of games we wouldn't otherwise win, and then.................he's gone next summer and we lose our pick.
Can you actually live with that ?
Can the Lakers ?
They're idiots if they can.
And Lou is straight up cashing out on a big time asset.
His play this season and his contract make him a great asset to move, and once again - if he's not moved and ends up helping us win the one or two games that make a difference ?
Well, then we deserve to lose our pick.
No.
Half.
Measures.
Everything but actively trying to lose on the court should be fair game. |
Preach brother!
+1,000 |
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davidse
Franchise Player
Joined: 03 Jul 2005
Posts: 14302
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| Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2017 10:32 pm Post subject: |
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| babyskyhook wrote: | | davidse wrote: |
No half measures.
Trade both.
Pick is too important for this team's chances of competing for an nba title in the next decade.
Lose those two and the tank is looking much MUCH better, not to mention you're not just giving them away, but actually getting back assets that will be more helpful to the team than those two players - when it actually means something - several years from now.
Just think about Swaggy catching fire and helping us win a couple of games we wouldn't otherwise win, and then.................he's gone next summer and we lose our pick.
Can you actually live with that ?
Can the Lakers ?
They're idiots if they can.
And Lou is straight up cashing out on a big time asset.
His play this season and his contract make him a great asset to move, and once again - if he's not moved and ends up helping us win the one or two games that make a difference ?
Well, then we deserve to lose our pick.
No.
Half.
Measures.
Everything but actively trying to lose on the court should be fair game. |
Preach brother!
+1,000 |
For a minute in tonight's game I thought I was being a profit with Lou and Swaggy almost winning it for us...
And you KNOW it's going to happen at some point if we keep them or even if we keep one of them, and you KNOW that it's going to be 1-2 games that's going to seperate teams at the bottom of the standings...
They're playing with fire and they deserve to get burned if they want to keep doing it with next to nothing to gain and so much to lose. |
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70sdude
Star Player
Joined: 05 Feb 2009
Posts: 4567
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| Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2017 5:31 am Post subject: |
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Ball is interesting in that he has had a trans-formative effect on the play of UCLA since coming in this season. Coupled as he is with a second smart, generous, all-around good tall player TJ Leaf, Ball gets an uptempo offense rolling fast, but he is showing a couple - or more - clicks less effective in the half court. Odd shooting motion, but effective for a college player. Below average defender on ball and in space; gets a block and steal per game based on size/length mismatches with opponents.
His handle is a bit loose in PAC-12 play. He can drive but he gets stripped in traffic a couple times a game.
I like his spirit, his judgement, his intangibles for the Lakers. I'd prefer him to Russell, not sure they'd combine well. |
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yinoma2001
Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010
Posts: 119487
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| Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2017 6:29 am Post subject: |
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| davidse wrote: | | babyskyhook wrote: | | davidse wrote: |
No half measures.
Trade both.
Pick is too important for this team's chances of competing for an nba title in the next decade.
Lose those two and the tank is looking much MUCH better, not to mention you're not just giving them away, but actually getting back assets that will be more helpful to the team than those two players - when it actually means something - several years from now.
Just think about Swaggy catching fire and helping us win a couple of games we wouldn't otherwise win, and then.................he's gone next summer and we lose our pick.
Can you actually live with that ?
Can the Lakers ?
They're idiots if they can.
And Lou is straight up cashing out on a big time asset.
His play this season and his contract make him a great asset to move, and once again - if he's not moved and ends up helping us win the one or two games that make a difference ?
Well, then we deserve to lose our pick.
No.
Half.
Measures.
Everything but actively trying to lose on the court should be fair game. |
Preach brother!
+1,000 |
For a minute in tonight's game I thought I was being a profit with Lou and Swaggy almost winning it for us...
And you KNOW it's going to happen at some point if we keep them or even if we keep one of them, and you KNOW that it's going to be 1-2 games that's going to seperate teams at the bottom of the standings...
They're playing with fire and they deserve to get burned if they want to keep doing it with next to nothing to gain and so much to lose. |
The false allure of an 8th seed will likely cause FO paralysis. They may keep both, watch as Swaggy leaves for nothing b/c he will opt out and be too expensiv.
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davidse
Franchise Player
Joined: 03 Jul 2005
Posts: 14302
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| Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2017 6:55 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | davidse wrote: | | babyskyhook wrote: | | davidse wrote: |
No half measures.
Trade both.
Pick is too important for this team's chances of competing for an nba title in the next decade.
Lose those two and the tank is looking much MUCH better, not to mention you're not just giving them away, but actually getting back assets that will be more helpful to the team than those two players - when it actually means something - several years from now.
Just think about Swaggy catching fire and helping us win a couple of games we wouldn't otherwise win, and then.................he's gone next summer and we lose our pick.
Can you actually live with that ?
Can the Lakers ?
They're idiots if they can.
And Lou is straight up cashing out on a big time asset.
His play this season and his contract make him a great asset to move, and once again - if he's not moved and ends up helping us win the one or two games that make a difference ?
Well, then we deserve to lose our pick.
No.
Half.
Measures.
Everything but actively trying to lose on the court should be fair game. |
Preach brother!
+1,000 |
For a minute in tonight's game I thought I was being a profit with Lou and Swaggy almost winning it for us...
And you KNOW it's going to happen at some point if we keep them or even if we keep one of them, and you KNOW that it's going to be 1-2 games that's going to seperate teams at the bottom of the standings...
They're playing with fire and they deserve to get burned if they want to keep doing it with next to nothing to gain and so much to lose. |
The false allure of an 8th seed will likely cause FO paralysis. They may keep both, watch as Swaggy leaves for nothing b/c he will opt out and be too expensiv. |
And watch him win us the 1-2 games that cost us the pick...
Seriously though, I see what you're saying but I insist on clinging on to common sense and still believing that we are not run by complete morons.
For now, I have to believe that. I'll soon see if they prove me wrong. |
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yinoma2001
Retired Number
Joined: 19 Jun 2010
Posts: 119487
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| Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2017 6:59 am Post subject: |
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| Quote: |
Seriously though, I see what you're saying but I insist on clinging on to common sense and still believing that we are not run by complete morons.
For now, I have to believe that. I'll soon see if they prove me wrong. |
I have absolutely no inside info, but common sense to me is that the Jim Buss regime might be close to being on its last legs. A few things can happen as a consequence:
1. a futile last ditch effort to make the playoffs and keep your job (most likely route);
2. essentially ceding de facto control to Mitch to finish out the year and wind down the team so they can obtain as many young assets (and worry about the succession in the FO for the offseason) (unlikely).
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davidse
Franchise Player
Joined: 03 Jul 2005
Posts: 14302
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| Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2017 7:37 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | Quote: |
Seriously though, I see what you're saying but I insist on clinging on to common sense and still believing that we are not run by complete morons.
For now, I have to believe that. I'll soon see if they prove me wrong. |
I have absolutely no inside info, but common sense to me is that the Jim Buss regime might be close to being on its last legs. A few things can happen as a consequence:
1. a futile last ditch effort to make the playoffs and keep your job (most likely route);
2. essentially ceding de facto control to Mitch to finish out the year and wind down the team so they can obtain as many young assets (and worry about the succession in the FO for the offseason) (unlikely). |
Saving grace though is that Jim is part owner and Mitch is as straight arrow as they come. |
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emplay
Site Staff
Joined: 15 Apr 2001
Posts: 25549
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| Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2017 11:49 am Post subject: |
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Yinoma2001 - Mitch has made 98% of the decisions the last 5+ years - maybe higher - I don't get #2 when that's already the case
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Salary Cap Strategist and Columnist at Bleacher Report and on Twitter at http://www.twitter.com/EricPincus |
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dcarter4kobe
Franchise Player
Joined: 30 Jul 2005
Posts: 17674
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| Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2017 11:52 am Post subject: |
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So Mitch was the one who thought those Deng/Mozgov contracts would be a good idea 
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"He's a Zen master, so he can speak to you, and he doesn't need a microphone; you can hear him in your head, 'Ron, don't shoot, don't shoot.' Whatever, pow, three. I love the Zen, though." |
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emplay
Site Staff
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Posts: 25549
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| Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2017 11:56 am Post subject: |
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yes
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yinoma2001
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Joined: 19 Jun 2010
Posts: 119487
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| Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2017 11:57 am Post subject: |
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| emplay wrote: | | Yinoma2001 - Mitch has made 98% of the decisions the last 5+ years - maybe higher - I don't get #2 when that's already the case |
By decision, is that he has made the technical moves subject to Jim Buss's approval? Isn't Jim his direct report?
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emplay
Site Staff
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Posts: 25549
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| Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2017 12:00 pm Post subject: |
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Mitch runs the team - Jim and him talk about the moves - Mitch is the team's major decision maker. It's a partnership but most of what happens is Mitch.
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yinoma2001
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Posts: 119487
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| Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2017 12:04 pm Post subject: |
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| emplay wrote: | | Mitch runs the team - Jim and him talk about the moves - Mitch is the team's major decision maker. It's a partnership but most of what happens is Mitch. |
So what you're saying is:
1. if one is blaming the Lakers for the past few years, it's on Mitch.
2. if Jim is removed and Mitch stays, we stay on whatever course we are on right now?
Again, I'm not a pro- or anti-Jim guy (and I'm a pro-Mitch guy), but just trying to understand their dynamics.
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emplay
Site Staff
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| Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2017 12:12 pm Post subject: |
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Jim has gotten a ton of blame but it's the partnership of Mitch/Jim that deserves credit and blame for the Lakers' previous success and recent stumbles. I'm not saying they've done poorly or done well, just that the responsibilities have been largely placed on Jim like he's the mastermind to everything that has ever gone wrong in the world, lol
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Salary Cap Strategist and Columnist at Bleacher Report and on Twitter at http://www.twitter.com/EricPincus |
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yinoma2001
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Joined: 19 Jun 2010
Posts: 119487
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| Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2017 12:20 pm Post subject: |
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| emplay wrote: | | Jim has gotten a ton of blame but it's the partnership of Mitch/Jim that deserves credit and blame for the Lakers' previous success and recent stumbles. I'm not saying they've done poorly or done well, just that the responsibilities have been largely placed on Jim like he's the mastermind to everything that has ever gone wrong in the world, lol |
If it's a "ride and die together" package that's being sold, I can understand then if some folks want the entire package thrown out.
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mhan00
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Joined: 13 Apr 2001
Posts: 32059
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| Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2017 1:24 pm Post subject: |
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| We've been so bad the last few years that John Ireland is on team tank now too. Though he and Mason phrased it as "trying to keep the pick" instead of "tank". |
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lukewaltonsdad
Star Player
Joined: 09 Jul 2014
Posts: 2983
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| Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2017 1:28 pm Post subject: |
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| We will finish with the second worst record, IMO. We'll have 56% odds to keep the pick. We will need some luck. |
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P.K.
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Joined: 10 Jul 2003
Posts: 29713
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| Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2017 1:34 pm Post subject: |
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After the loss to the Blazers (1/25):
Nugz #8: 19-25, .432, 44 games played, 38 games remaining
Blazers #9: 20-27, .426, 47 games played with 35 games remaining
Lakers #15: 16-33, .327, 49 games played, 33 games remaining
The Blazers have now beaten the Lakers 3 times since Jan 5th.
IF the Nugz continue winning 43.2% of their games they'll finish with 35.42 wins (call it 35), for a record of 35-47.
To get past that projected Nugz record , the Lakers would need to win 36 games. Or, put another way, 20 of their last 33 games (60.6%).
I think we can now safely say that making the playoffs is completely unobtainable.
On the other hand, I am glad that Luke took my advice (kidding) from the last post where I did this projection - acknowledged the playoffs are a pipe dream and played Zu major minutes.
The smartest course of action should be to use every single game from here on as a teaching opportunity and start getting young guys experience for next year - a little dose (or very big) of benching people that are playing stupid wouldn't be a bad thing here either. 33 games to get young guys experience, make them play D, and learn how to play the right way is an opportunity that shouldn't be squandered.
if that results in a few more losses that we wouldn't normally incur, no harm is done, since we're not going to the playoffs anyway. And, it has the added advantage of increasing our Lottery odds.
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LBJ + AD = More rings
Never argue with a fool - listeners can't tell you apart
Wilt's unstoppable fadeaway: www.youtube.com/watch?v=8O9MgNfcGJA
NPZ's Magic Johnson mix: www.youtube.com/watch?v=q8Qbo0WqvOI |
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davidse
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Joined: 03 Jul 2005
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| Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2017 1:59 pm Post subject: |
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| dcarter4kobe wrote: | | So Mitch was the one who thought those Deng/Mozgov contracts would be a good idea |
My guess as to what happened with Mozgov -
Luke really wanted him, but Luke is not a GM and doesn't really have a concept of how much you should pay a player or the consequences that could have on the Lakers' specific position, but Mitch decided to go all out and lock up the guy that Luke wanted so that to give him a good start to his tenure and their professional relationship.
Deng I think was a combination of Luke but also Mitch liking him specifically for a mentorship role.
But that's just me guessing based on the reports that Luke liked Mozgov so much. |
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adkindo
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Joined: 16 Jun 2005
Posts: 40345
Location: Dirty South
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| Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2017 3:39 pm Post subject: |
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| eddiejonze wrote: | | Inspector Gadget wrote: | | I think I'm speaking for everyone when I say that people are tired of the tank talk, even of playoffs are out of reach, getting wins can give us a better idea of what to expect next year. |
You're def not speaking for a lot of people, hence a tank thread, tank talk, and tank supporters. I want to tank, it's my right to want that, and it's refreshing to see a writer acknowledge that. |
I know this is days old, but I had not read thread since I had already read article....but this is a solid response...simple...to the point...not projecting out at others  |
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adkindo
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Location: Dirty South
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| Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2017 3:44 pm Post subject: |
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| emplay wrote: | | Jim has gotten a ton of blame but it's the partnership of Mitch/Jim that deserves credit and blame for the Lakers' previous success and recent stumbles. I'm not saying they've done poorly or done well, just that the responsibilities have been largely placed on Jim like he's the mastermind to everything that has ever gone wrong in the world, lol |
interesting.....so if I understand correctly, it was probably Mitch that identified Mozgov and Deng, then sold Jim on it? If that is true, and what you know of Mitch, is there any chance he would avoid dumping one of those contracts if a miracle opportunity arose due to optics, or the admission it was a mistake by him? |
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P.K.
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Posts: 29713
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| Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2017 4:09 pm Post subject: |
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| davidse wrote: | | dcarter4kobe wrote: | | So Mitch was the one who thought those Deng/Mozgov contracts would be a good idea |
My guess as to what happened with Mozgov -
Luke really wanted him, but Luke is not a GM and doesn't really have a concept of how much you should pay a player or the consequences that could have on the Lakers' specific position, but Mitch decided to go all out and lock up the guy that Luke wanted so that to give him a good start to his tenure and their professional relationship.
Deng I think was a combination of Luke but also Mitch liking him specifically for a mentorship role.
But that's just me guessing based on the reports that Luke liked Mozgov so much. |
Shaw was also reportedly pretty high on Moz, based on their time in Denver IIRC.
_________________
LBJ + AD = More rings
Never argue with a fool - listeners can't tell you apart
Wilt's unstoppable fadeaway: www.youtube.com/watch?v=8O9MgNfcGJA
NPZ's Magic Johnson mix: www.youtube.com/watch?v=q8Qbo0WqvOI |
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danzag
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Joined: 28 Apr 2013
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Location: Brazil
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| Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2017 4:54 pm Post subject: |
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| P.K. wrote: | | davidse wrote: | | dcarter4kobe wrote: | | So Mitch was the one who thought those Deng/Mozgov contracts would be a good idea |
My guess as to what happened with Mozgov -
Luke really wanted him, but Luke is not a GM and doesn't really have a concept of how much you should pay a player or the consequences that could have on the Lakers' specific position, but Mitch decided to go all out and lock up the guy that Luke wanted so that to give him a good start to his tenure and their professional relationship.
Deng I think was a combination of Luke but also Mitch liking him specifically for a mentorship role.
But that's just me guessing based on the reports that Luke liked Mozgov so much. |
Shaw was also reportedly pretty high on Moz, based on their time in Denver IIRC. |
Hard not to be high on him, after this performance:
http://ballislife.com/wp-content/uploads/2014/04/tumblr_n3uzbmpXUD1qa8tuqo1_1280.jpg |
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Goldenwest
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Posts: 2801
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| Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2017 5:36 pm Post subject: |
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Tanking is just an excuse for a failing inept FO. At some point the tanking turns a once good franchise into a pitiful dysfunctional one.
The Lakers should try to get as many wins as possible. Even make a trade if it will make them better. The goal now should be a good FA off-season |
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