Lakers Keeping Top-3 Protected Pick Must Be More Important Than Wins
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emplay
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2017 11:05 am    Post subject: Lakers Keeping Top-3 Protected Pick Must Be More Important Than Wins

Hey all,

Here's my latest at Bleacher Report

Lakers Keeping Top-3 Protected Pick Must Be More Important Than Wins

http://bleacherreport.com/articles/2688129-lakers-keeping-top-3-protected-pick-must-be-more-important-than-wins

Thanks,

Eric

PS: We had Jamal Crawford on our podcast, not Lakers but give it a listen if you have a chance - he does talk Lou Williams a bit

Latest Hollywood Hoops, @JCrossover visits to talk @LAClippers, @CP3 injury and his Seattle roots w/@JoshMartinNBA
https://soundcloud.com/eric-pincus/la-clippers-guard-jamal-crawford-ready-chris-paul-out
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Inspector Gadget
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2017 11:27 am    Post subject:

I think I'm speaking for everyone when I say that people are tired of the tank talk, even of playoffs are out of reach, getting wins can give us a better idea of what to expect next year.
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Jakanzi
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2017 11:35 am    Post subject:

I've thought about the Gasol trade and whether the designated player exception would have prevented that. However, Pau hadn't made any all NBA teams before he was a Laker so he wasn't eligible for the designated player exception. That's why I don't think it hurts the Lakers that much. A good player that's unhappy on a bad team is actually somewhat less likely to make an All NBA team.

Moreover, it seems likely to me that for those who do qualify, it makes it harder to fit a team around them and at some point the teams might get tired of paying that much money for a losing team (e.g. the problem in Portland right now). Think there are just too many moving parts to this system and unintended consequences that happen to definitively say this CBA was bad for the Lakers.
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eddiejonze
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2017 11:53 am    Post subject:

Inspector Gadget wrote:
I think I'm speaking for everyone when I say that people are tired of the tank talk, even of playoffs are out of reach, getting wins can give us a better idea of what to expect next year.

You're def not speaking for a lot of people, hence a tank thread, tank talk, and tank supporters. I want to tank, it's my right to want that, and it's refreshing to see a writer acknowledge that.
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justsomelakerfan
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2017 11:57 am    Post subject:

eddiejonze wrote:
Inspector Gadget wrote:
I think I'm speaking for everyone when I say that people are tired of the tank talk, even of playoffs are out of reach, getting wins can give us a better idea of what to expect next year.

You're def not speaking for a lot of people, hence a tank thread, tank talk, and tank supporters. I want to tank, it's my right to want that, and it's refreshing to see a writer acknowledge that.


The good thing about the Lakers is that they don't have to do much more to actively tank. Continue developing their guys and trade at least one of Lou or Nick. You're set. And they could already be set.
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Fortysixn2
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2017 11:59 am    Post subject:

I disagree, unless there is a clear stud (Lebron, Anthony davis) sitting at #1 it's a complete crapshoot. Look at the last 5 years (leaving the most recent draft out, too early to tell)

2015

Towns.- Stud
DLO - Ok, not going to be a franchise player
Okafor - on the way to being a bust

2014

Wiggins - Ok, not going to be a franchise player
Parker - Ok, not going to be a franchise player
Embiid - Looks like a stud, time will tell

2013

Bennett - Bust
Olapid - Ok, not going to be a franchise player
Porter - Ok, not going to be a franchise player

2012

Davis - Stud
MKG - Bust
Beal - Good NBA player

2011

Irving - Stud
Derrick Williams - Bust
Kanter - Ok, not going to be a franchise player

As far as I can see, unless you get the 1st pick....you can just hope for an average to good NBA player at 2-3 and you have just as good of a chance of picking a bust.

I'm all for keeping the pick, but I wouldn't make any moves to try to make sure we do. Trading Lou for 2nd round picks would be an example of a Tank move I would not support, if he gets moved then it should be for young assets or to fill a gap in our roster. If we were to trade him + filler for Rubio to shore up our PG position while DLO is out and eventually allow DLO to move to SG when Nick leaves...then that is a decent move.

Other than that, I can't say keeping the pick is a priority...if it happens it happens....we aren't the 76'ers or the Suns.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2017 12:02 pm    Post subject:

Do whatever it takes to keep that pick away from Philly
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eddiejonze
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2017 12:05 pm    Post subject:

Fortysixn2 wrote:
I disagree, unless there is a clear stud (Lebron, Anthony davis) sitting at #1 it's a complete crapshoot. Look at the last 5 years (leaving the most recent draft out, too early to tell)

2015

Towns.- Stud
DLO - Ok, not going to be a franchise player
Okafor - on the way to being a bust

2014

Wiggins - Ok, not going to be a franchise player
Parker - Ok, not going to be a franchise player
Embiid - Looks like a stud, time will tell

2013

Bennett - Bust
Olapid - Ok, not going to be a franchise player
Porter - Ok, not going to be a franchise player

2012

Davis - Stud
MKG - Bust
Beal - Good NBA player

2011

Irving - Stud
Derrick Williams - Bust
Kanter - Ok, not going to be a franchise player

As far as I can see, unless you get the 1st pick....you can just hope for an average to good NBA player at 2-3 and you have just as good of a chance of picking a bust.

I'm all for keeping the pick, but I wouldn't make any moves to try to make sure we do. Trading Lou for 2nd round picks would be an example of a Tank move I would not support, if he gets moved then it should be for young assets or to fill a gap in our roster. If we were to trade him + filler for Rubio to shore up our PG position while DLO is out and eventually allow DLO to move to SG when Nick leaves...then that is a decent move.

Other than that, I can't say keeping the pick is a priority...if it happens it happens....we aren't the 76'ers or the Suns.

I'm gonna go on record tho, and say that not only will fultz be a stud but ball too,,,, this is def a better draft than years past.
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dcarter4kobe
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2017 12:10 pm    Post subject:

Even if you don't keep the draft pick, a top 3 pick+Black/Lou could make a pretty good offer for a veteran player.
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justsomelakerfan
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2017 12:10 pm    Post subject:

Every draft is a crapshoot. Every single one. That's not me saying it's bad to tank, just saying it's a crapshoot and even the surest thing on the planet may not be as good as we predict.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2017 12:13 pm    Post subject:

justsomelakerfan wrote:
Every draft is a crapshoot. Every single one. That's not me saying it's bad to tank, just saying it's a crapshoot and even the surest thing on the planet may not be as good as we predict.


A crapshoot we have to take, especially when it comes with keeping our 2019 1st.
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justsomelakerfan
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2017 12:20 pm    Post subject:

dcarter4kobe wrote:
justsomelakerfan wrote:
Every draft is a crapshoot. Every single one. That's not me saying it's bad to tank, just saying it's a crapshoot and even the surest thing on the planet may not be as good as we predict.


A crapshoot we have to take, especially when it comes with keeping our 2019 1st.


100% agree. It's a roll of the dice you have to take, and the franchise should consider getting rid of Lou to do it, but I don't really believe anyone's a sure thing anymore.
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Jakanzi
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2017 12:21 pm    Post subject:

To me the draft is such a crapshoot that there's a nonzero possibility that if we only have our 2018 first that it ends up being a better player than who we could have picked with our 2017 and 2019 picks. That said, two assets are better than one. Not really sure the Lakers need to do much more to continue tanking though. Even if you trade Lou, Nick and start Zubac the chance of keeping the pick is likely still no better than a coin flip. Walton is already on record saying he's put Ingram out there in situations where that's not the most optimal strategy for winning.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2017 12:28 pm    Post subject:

I hate the tank talk.

I've always hated it. It's loser thinking.
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dcarter4kobe
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2017 12:28 pm    Post subject:

Jakanzi wrote:
To me the draft is such a crapshoot that there's a nonzero possibility that if we only have our 2018 first that it ends up being a better player than who we could have picked with our 2017 and 2019 picks. That said, two assets are better than one. Not really sure the Lakers need to do much more to continue tanking though. Even if you trade Lou, Nick and start Zubac the chance of keeping the pick is likely still no better than a coin flip. Walton is already on record saying he's put Ingram out there in situations where that's not the most optimal strategy for winning.


The 2nd spot in the lottery, like last year, should be the goal. 55% chance of keeping the pick.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2017 12:39 pm    Post subject:

Yay. For 4 years we play to lose.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2017 12:41 pm    Post subject:

yinoma2001 wrote:
Yay. For 4 years we play to lose.


Tanking isn't much different than what we're doing right now though. Close games, roster can't really gut out wins, bunch of young players getting larger roles... We basically just need to keep exactly what we're doing and trade Lou for an asset.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2017 1:01 pm    Post subject:

justsomelakerfan wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Yay. For 4 years we play to lose.


Tanking isn't much different than what we're doing right now though. Close games, roster can't really gut out wins, bunch of young players getting larger roles... We basically just need to keep exactly what we're doing and trade Lou for an asset.


It's not as if we're starting Ryan Kelly at SF.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2017 1:46 pm    Post subject:

eddiejonze wrote:
Inspector Gadget wrote:
I think I'm speaking for everyone when I say that people are tired of the tank talk, even of playoffs are out of reach, getting wins can give us a better idea of what to expect next year.

You're def not speaking for a lot of people, hence a tank thread, tank talk, and tank supporters. I want to tank, it's my right to want that, and it's refreshing to see a writer acknowledge that.


What good does tanking do to a young roster? it's not like tanking is a new theme for this team, we have endorsed it for 3 awful years, these guys need to taste some winning, aim for 30-35 wins to end the season with the young players believing they can get it done soon. you want us to just have no chance of competing while having a chance at a pick that the Sixers have 68.9% chance of keeping? We aren't gonna have the ping pong balls bouncing our way everytime especially when the NBA is very strict on making things obvious with the NBA lottery.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2017 1:53 pm    Post subject:

No question keeping the pick would be nice, whether we finish dead last or 9th. But if we get into the playoffs you won't see me whining about missing out on Ball.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2017 1:59 pm    Post subject:

Don Draper wrote:
No question keeping the pick would be nice, whether we finish dead last or 9th. But if we get into the playoffs you won't see me whining about missing out on Ball.


We are 2 games back in the win column for the 8th seed, but some people want us to lose on purpose to have a chance at a top pick, don't understand how anyone would be against this team tasting the playoffs.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2017 2:03 pm    Post subject:

Inspector Gadget wrote:
Don Draper wrote:
No question keeping the pick would be nice, whether we finish dead last or 9th. But if we get into the playoffs you won't see me whining about missing out on Ball.


We are 2 games back in the win column for the 8th seed, but some people want us to lose on purpose to have a chance at a top pick, don't understand how anyone would be against this team tasting the playoffs.


Because of what the Warriors are going to do to us if we get there.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2017 2:06 pm    Post subject:

fontana3d wrote:
Inspector Gadget wrote:
Don Draper wrote:
No question keeping the pick would be nice, whether we finish dead last or 9th. But if we get into the playoffs you won't see me whining about missing out on Ball.


We are 2 games back in the win column for the 8th seed, but some people want us to lose on purpose to have a chance at a top pick, don't understand how anyone would be against this team tasting the playoffs.


Because of what the Warriors are going to do to us if we get there.


That would end up being a good learning experience, we didn't become title contenders with Kobe until he endorsed the tough playoff loses early in his career.
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tox
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2017 2:11 pm    Post subject:

Inspector Gadget wrote:
Don Draper wrote:
No question keeping the pick would be nice, whether we finish dead last or 9th. But if we get into the playoffs you won't see me whining about missing out on Ball.


We are 2 games back in the win column for the 8th seed, but some people want us to lose on purpose to have a chance at a top pick, don't understand how anyone would be against this team tasting the playoffs.
We're also like 7 games back in the loss column.
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PostPosted: Sat Jan 21, 2017 2:13 pm    Post subject:

tox wrote:
Inspector Gadget wrote:
Don Draper wrote:
No question keeping the pick would be nice, whether we finish dead last or 9th. But if we get into the playoffs you won't see me whining about missing out on Ball.


We are 2 games back in the win column for the 8th seed, but some people want us to lose on purpose to have a chance at a top pick, don't understand how anyone would be against this team tasting the playoffs.
We're also like 7 games back in the loss column.


Thats not a big margin especially since Denver is expected to aggressively trade Chandler/Faried/Nurkic and others by the TD.
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