Lakers Keeping Top-3 Protected Pick Must Be More Important Than Wins
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tox
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2017 2:38 pm    Post subject:

Goldenwest wrote:
babyskyhook wrote:
tox wrote:
Goldenwest wrote:
Tanking is just an excuse for a failing inept FO. At some point the tanking turns a once good franchise into a pitiful dysfunctional one.

The Lakers should try to get as many wins as possible. Even make a trade if it will make them better. The goal now should be a good FA off-season


The FA dream is dead imo. Gave up on it after the new CBA. Best we'll get is Deng or Williams type players. Not bad if you sign Williams to a cheap deal. Bad if you sign Deng to an expensive deal. But at this point I'm not even really preoccupied with free agency or anything... the Lakers still have cap flexibility to go for a B-tier free agent if it comes to that but the actual growth will have to be internal.



Agreed. All about getting as many shots in the lotto as possible within a cetain timeframe and drafting well while the team is bad.


Takes too much time and there's a lot of uncertainty relying just on lottery pics. Need to get FA's to get competitive. Eddie and NVE did not get the Lakers to the playoffs until Ceballos joined them. Lakers probably couldn't sign Shaq if they were still a lottery team. To me based on history, lakers need FA's or trades to get to that next level. FA's are going to help get us to the playoffs. Not more lotto picks,


Well Shaq isn't leaving Orlando in 2018, that was my point.

If you want to sign a max for a Ceballos caliber player, that's probably the best we can do. And it might be the smartest at this rate.
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2017 4:20 pm    Post subject:

tox wrote:
Goldenwest wrote:
babyskyhook wrote:
tox wrote:
Goldenwest wrote:
Tanking is just an excuse for a failing inept FO. At some point the tanking turns a once good franchise into a pitiful dysfunctional one.

The Lakers should try to get as many wins as possible. Even make a trade if it will make them better. The goal now should be a good FA off-season


The FA dream is dead imo. Gave up on it after the new CBA. Best we'll get is Deng or Williams type players. Not bad if you sign Williams to a cheap deal. Bad if you sign Deng to an expensive deal. But at this point I'm not even really preoccupied with free agency or anything... the Lakers still have cap flexibility to go for a B-tier free agent if it comes to that but the actual growth will have to be internal.



Agreed. All about getting as many shots in the lotto as possible within a cetain timeframe and drafting well while the team is bad.


Takes too much time and there's a lot of uncertainty relying just on lottery pics. Need to get FA's to get competitive. Eddie and NVE did not get the Lakers to the playoffs until Ceballos joined them. Lakers probably couldn't sign Shaq if they were still a lottery team. To me based on history, lakers need FA's or trades to get to that next level. FA's are going to help get us to the playoffs. Not more lotto picks,


Well Shaq isn't leaving Orlando in 2018, that was my point.

If you want to sign a max for a Ceballos caliber player, that's probably the best we can do. And it might be the smartest at this rate.

Agreeing somewhat with both sides of the argument being quoted above......after building a solid foundation through the draft, the Lakers should be able to get a top-tier free agent. Its not just drafting well or signing good free agents exclusively, the Lakers need to do both extraordinarily well. I would be much more confident in Laker management if it had managed to insert a Laker option after the second year in Mozgov's or Deng's contracts.
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2017 6:12 pm    Post subject:

Annihilator wrote:
tox wrote:
Goldenwest wrote:
babyskyhook wrote:
tox wrote:
Goldenwest wrote:
Tanking is just an excuse for a failing inept FO. At some point the tanking turns a once good franchise into a pitiful dysfunctional one.

The Lakers should try to get as many wins as possible. Even make a trade if it will make them better. The goal now should be a good FA off-season
The FA dream is dead imo. Gave up on it after the new CBA. Best we'll get is Deng or Williams type players. Not bad if you sign Williams to a cheap deal. Bad if you sign Deng to an expensive deal. But at this point I'm not even really preoccupied with free agency or anything... the Lakers still have cap flexibility to go for a B-tier free agent if it comes to that but the actual growth will have to be internal.
Agreed. All about getting as many shots in the lotto as possible within a cetain timeframe and drafting well while the team is bad.
Takes too much time and there's a lot of uncertainty relying just on lottery pics. Need to get FA's to get competitive. Eddie and NVE did not get the Lakers to the playoffs until Ceballos joined them. Lakers probably couldn't sign Shaq if they were still a lottery team. To me based on history, lakers need FA's or trades to get to that next level. FA's are going to help get us to the playoffs. Not more lotto picks,
Well Shaq isn't leaving Orlando in 2018, that was my point.

If you want to sign a max for a Ceballos caliber player, that's probably the best we can do. And it might be the smartest at this rate.
Agreeing somewhat with both sides of the argument being quoted above......after building a solid foundation through the draft, the Lakers should be able to get a top-tier free agent. Its not just drafting well or signing good free agents exclusively, the Lakers need to do both extraordinarily well. I would be much more confident in Laker management if it had managed to insert a Laker option after the second year in Mozgov's or Deng's contracts.
If the Lakers are able to get a lottery draft choice, they will be able to get a FA that might be listed at http://hoopshype.com/2017/01/25/nba-free-agency-2017-the-top-players/. If they got a player like UCLA's Ball, they will have a floor leader that will allow DLO, Randle, JC and Nance to flourish.

Ingram has the chance to be a player like the Spurs' Leonard.
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PostPosted: Sun Jan 29, 2017 11:50 pm    Post subject:

tox wrote:
Goldenwest wrote:
babyskyhook wrote:
tox wrote:
Goldenwest wrote:
Tanking is just an excuse for a failing inept FO. At some point the tanking turns a once good franchise into a pitiful dysfunctional one.

The Lakers should try to get as many wins as possible. Even make a trade if it will make them better. The goal now should be a good FA off-season


The FA dream is dead imo. Gave up on it after the new CBA. Best we'll get is Deng or Williams type players. Not bad if you sign Williams to a cheap deal. Bad if you sign Deng to an expensive deal. But at this point I'm not even really preoccupied with free agency or anything... the Lakers still have cap flexibility to go for a B-tier free agent if it comes to that but the actual growth will have to be internal.



Agreed. All about getting as many shots in the lotto as possible within a cetain timeframe and drafting well while the team is bad.


Takes too much time and there's a lot of uncertainty relying just on lottery pics. Need to get FA's to get competitive. Eddie and NVE did not get the Lakers to the playoffs until Ceballos joined them. Lakers probably couldn't sign Shaq if they were still a lottery team. To me based on history, lakers need FA's or trades to get to that next level. FA's are going to help get us to the playoffs. Not more lotto picks,


Well Shaq isn't leaving Orlando in 2018, that was my point.

If you want to sign a max for a Ceballos caliber player, that's probably the best we can do. And it might be the smartest at this rate.


Ok, gotcha, but there will be a Top FA who does have the option to sign with the Lakers. The Lakers have to set themselves up to be appealing to those guys. Yeah, we need to sign one or two guys who can help get us to the playoffs first. Looks like Mozgov and Deng are not those guys. Which is unfortunate. If only the team can play near 500 ball the rest of the way, that would make life in the offseason easier.

I'm in favor of a Butler type deal also. We have the largest market - but what we don't have is a bonafide all star. We get that first all-star at his peak - and others will more likely come.
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PostPosted: Mon Jan 30, 2017 10:04 pm    Post subject: Re: Lakers Keeping Top-3 Protected Pick Must Be More Important Than Wins

ive been preaching the points this article made before this season even began. I dont expect the average fan to really buy into it but I hope the FO is smart enough to realize the implications of losing this top 3 pick and how foolish it is to hang on to a prayer that a franchise player is going to walk away 10s of millions to play for us.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2017 12:03 am    Post subject:

A Mad Chinaman wrote:
Annihilator wrote:
tox wrote:
Goldenwest wrote:
babyskyhook wrote:
tox wrote:
Goldenwest wrote:
Tanking is just an excuse for a failing inept FO. At some point the tanking turns a once good franchise into a pitiful dysfunctional one.

The Lakers should try to get as many wins as possible. Even make a trade if it will make them better. The goal now should be a good FA off-season
The FA dream is dead imo. Gave up on it after the new CBA. Best we'll get is Deng or Williams type players. Not bad if you sign Williams to a cheap deal. Bad if you sign Deng to an expensive deal. But at this point I'm not even really preoccupied with free agency or anything... the Lakers still have cap flexibility to go for a B-tier free agent if it comes to that but the actual growth will have to be internal.
Agreed. All about getting as many shots in the lotto as possible within a cetain timeframe and drafting well while the team is bad.
Takes too much time and there's a lot of uncertainty relying just on lottery pics. Need to get FA's to get competitive. Eddie and NVE did not get the Lakers to the playoffs until Ceballos joined them. Lakers probably couldn't sign Shaq if they were still a lottery team. To me based on history, lakers need FA's or trades to get to that next level. FA's are going to help get us to the playoffs. Not more lotto picks,
Well Shaq isn't leaving Orlando in 2018, that was my point.

If you want to sign a max for a Ceballos caliber player, that's probably the best we can do. And it might be the smartest at this rate.
Agreeing somewhat with both sides of the argument being quoted above......after building a solid foundation through the draft, the Lakers should be able to get a top-tier free agent. Its not just drafting well or signing good free agents exclusively, the Lakers need to do both extraordinarily well. I would be much more confident in Laker management if it had managed to insert a Laker option after the second year in Mozgov's or Deng's contracts.
If the Lakers are able to get a lottery draft choice, they will be able to get a FA that might be listed at http://hoopshype.com/2017/01/25/nba-free-agency-2017-the-top-players/. If they got a player like UCLA's Ball, they will have a floor leader that will allow DLO, Randle, JC and Nance to flourish.

Ingram has the chance to be a player like the Spurs' Leonard.


Typically, it takes rookie point guards a few years to figure out their place in the league; the ones who make a significant impact right out of the box are really rare. I don't see a top free agent signing here based on an untested rookie point and a hope that all the young guys improve substantially.

Even if we keep our top three pick, I think we're still a couple of years away from having a good enough foundation to attract a difference-making free agent.
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PostPosted: Tue Jan 31, 2017 5:02 pm    Post subject:

activeverb wrote:
A Mad Chinaman wrote:
Annihilator wrote:
tox wrote:
Goldenwest wrote:
babyskyhook wrote:
tox wrote:
Goldenwest wrote:
Tanking is just an excuse for a failing inept FO. At some point the tanking turns a once good franchise into a pitiful dysfunctional one.

The Lakers should try to get as many wins as possible. Even make a trade if it will make them better. The goal now should be a good FA off-season
The FA dream is dead imo. Gave up on it after the new CBA. Best we'll get is Deng or Williams type players. Not bad if you sign Williams to a cheap deal. Bad if you sign Deng to an expensive deal. But at this point I'm not even really preoccupied with free agency or anything... the Lakers still have cap flexibility to go for a B-tier free agent if it comes to that but the actual growth will have to be internal.
Agreed. All about getting as many shots in the lotto as possible within a cetain timeframe and drafting well while the team is bad.
Takes too much time and there's a lot of uncertainty relying just on lottery pics. Need to get FA's to get competitive. Eddie and NVE did not get the Lakers to the playoffs until Ceballos joined them. Lakers probably couldn't sign Shaq if they were still a lottery team. To me based on history, lakers need FA's or trades to get to that next level. FA's are going to help get us to the playoffs. Not more lotto picks,
Well Shaq isn't leaving Orlando in 2018, that was my point.

If you want to sign a max for a Ceballos caliber player, that's probably the best we can do. And it might be the smartest at this rate.
Agreeing somewhat with both sides of the argument being quoted above......after building a solid foundation through the draft, the Lakers should be able to get a top-tier free agent. Its not just drafting well or signing good free agents exclusively, the Lakers need to do both extraordinarily well. I would be much more confident in Laker management if it had managed to insert a Laker option after the second year in Mozgov's or Deng's contracts.
If the Lakers are able to get a lottery draft choice, they will be able to get a FA that might be listed at http://hoopshype.com/2017/01/25/nba-free-agency-2017-the-top-players/. If they got a player like UCLA's Ball, they will have a floor leader that will allow DLO, Randle, JC and Nance to flourish.

Ingram has the chance to be a player like the Spurs' Leonard.
Typically, it takes rookie point guards a few years to figure out their place in the league; the ones who make a significant impact right out of the box are really rare. I don't see a top free agent signing here based on an untested rookie point and a hope that all the young guys improve substantially.

Even if we keep our top three pick, I think we're still a couple of years away from having a good enough foundation to attract a difference-making free agent.
Tangible indications that a PG is a floor general and/or have the ability to consistently beat his defender when not double teamed is seen quickly. DLO is talented, but if the Lakers get a lottery pick, it will probably be a PG that will cause a dilemma described at http://hoopshabit.com/2017/01/31/los-angeles-lakers-dangelo-russell/

We will see how Ben Simmons looks when he finally plays

In the NBA, it only takes a relatively few players to make a difference.
Note: Dave McMennin(??) stated that the Cavs are 18-49 without Lebron. In addition, Lebron is forced to play heavy minutes to keep the Cavs (#1 team in the East on top)
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2017 8:03 am    Post subject:

Unfortunately, getting that low draft pick and that in 2019 seems the best way to succeed.
It is unfortunate that the FO would put themselves in that position.
The FO just can't seem to make a good decision for the past 5 years or so.
They are deluded that the Lakers are still on top and that every player wants to play for the Lakers. The good players avoid the Lakers now.

When loosing seems to be the way to success, some changes in the FO needs to be made.
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2017 8:45 am    Post subject:

laker50 wrote:
Unfortunately, getting that low draft pick and that in 2019 seems the best way to succeed.
It is unfortunate that the FO would put themselves in that position.
The FO just can't seem to make a good decision for the past 5 years or so.
They are deluded that the Lakers are still on top and that every player wants to play for the Lakers. The good players avoid the Lakers now.

When loosing seems to be the way to success, some changes in the FO needs to be made.
Mitch went "All In" with the Steve Nash trade that had been lauded by many as an outstanding trade that unfortunately turned sour.

David Stern overturning the CP3 trade was an unprescendent action that no other team had to survive.

If the Clippers don't go past the second round, they will be rebuilding yet again

Appreciate that Mitch's goal is to win rings, not the playoffs
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 02, 2017 9:19 am    Post subject:

Inspector Gadget wrote:
fontana3d wrote:
Inspector Gadget wrote:
Don Draper wrote:
No question keeping the pick would be nice, whether we finish dead last or 9th. But if we get into the playoffs you won't see me whining about missing out on Ball.


We are 2 games back in the win column for the 8th seed, but some people want us to lose on purpose to have a chance at a top pick, don't understand how anyone would be against this team tasting the playoffs.


Because of what the Warriors are going to do to us if we get there.


That would end up being a good learning experience, we didn't become title contenders with Kobe until he endorsed the tough playoff loses early in his career.


We didnt become a title contender until we drafted Kobe. I'm not sure how much that tought playoff loss had to do with us winning championships. We mostly won rings because we had a very talented roster.

If we tank we have a much better shot at having a talented roster.
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PostPosted: Fri Feb 03, 2017 11:21 am    Post subject:

Lonzo Ball would be a perfect fit for the Lakers.
Russell plays more like a SG. He is a true pass first PG
like J. Kidd.

But it would take a first or second pick to get him most likely.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2017 9:37 am    Post subject:

tox wrote:
Goldenwest wrote:
babyskyhook wrote:
tox wrote:
Goldenwest wrote:
Tanking is just an excuse for a failing inept FO. At some point the tanking turns a once good franchise into a pitiful dysfunctional one.

The Lakers should try to get as many wins as possible. Even make a trade if it will make them better. The goal now should be a good FA off-season


The FA dream is dead imo. Gave up on it after the new CBA. Best we'll get is Deng or Williams type players. Not bad if you sign Williams to a cheap deal. Bad if you sign Deng to an expensive deal. But at this point I'm not even really preoccupied with free agency or anything... the Lakers still have cap flexibility to go for a B-tier free agent if it comes to that but the actual growth will have to be internal.



Agreed. All about getting as many shots in the lotto as possible within a cetain timeframe and drafting well while the team is bad.


Takes too much time and there's a lot of uncertainty relying just on lottery pics. Need to get FA's to get competitive. Eddie and NVE did not get the Lakers to the playoffs until Ceballos joined them. Lakers probably couldn't sign Shaq if they were still a lottery team. To me based on history, lakers need FA's or trades to get to that next level. FA's are going to help get us to the playoffs. Not more lotto picks,


Well Shaq isn't leaving Orlando in 2018, that was my point.

If you want to sign a max for a Ceballos caliber player, that's probably the best we can do. And it might be the smartest at this rate.


Ceballos could score 50. We got Deng and Mozgov. That's like the class flunky thinking he is going to a UC.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2017 9:43 am    Post subject:

Ceballos scored 50, with 30 points all based on garbage points and fouls.

When the Lakers needed him to be a shot creator in the playoffs, he was completely shut down.

Stick to the draft. Acquire assets. Get trade equity.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2017 12:02 pm    Post subject:

I hate "tanking" but here we have a golden opportunity to add a much needed playmaking or scoring pg to the team. The trick is to play hard, compete, gain valuable experience, and still lose. Luke should call Byron.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2017 5:53 pm    Post subject:

Trade what you can and hope we get a top 3 pick. Btw who are the top 3 guys in this draft.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2017 5:55 pm    Post subject:

lakermann44 wrote:
Trade what you can and hope we get a top 3 pick. Btw who are the top 3 guys in this draft.


lots of disagreement about who that would be in the draft thread

it's anyone's guess after fultz at 1. could be more dependent on individual team needs at the end of the day
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2017 6:22 pm    Post subject:

Remember everyone Ball is a local kid from Chino Hills, and he can be a hometown hero if he leads the Lakers back into contention someday.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2017 7:51 pm    Post subject:

fontana3d wrote:
Remember everyone Ball is a local kid from Chino Hills, and he can be a hometown hero if he leads the Lakers back into contention someday.


Like Jordan Farmar!

Jokes aside, I'm not crazy about him. He may be a pass first guard but he doesn't have that elite court vision that can pick a team apart.
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 04, 2017 11:07 pm    Post subject:

Ziggy wrote:
fontana3d wrote:
Remember everyone Ball is a local kid from Chino Hills, and he can be a hometown hero if he leads the Lakers back into contention someday.


Like Jordan Farmar!

Jokes aside, I'm not crazy about him. He may be a pass first guard but he doesn't have that elite court vision that can pick a team apart.


We might not have a choice if Fultz is off the board so it's either him or Jackson to improve the SG position.
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PostPosted: Sun Feb 05, 2017 9:56 pm    Post subject:

Mike@LG wrote:
Ceballos scored 50, with 30 points all based on garbage points and fouls.

When the Lakers needed him to be a shot creator in the playoffs, he was completely shut down.

Stick to the draft. Acquire assets. Get trade equity.


Don't disagree about ceballos. The point was that getting a player like him would be wishful thinking given our recent track record.

Ie the lakers are pretty much resigned to building through the draft.
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PostPosted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 1:39 am    Post subject:

Ziggy wrote:
fontana3d wrote:
Remember everyone Ball is a local kid from Chino Hills, and he can be a hometown hero if he leads the Lakers back into contention someday.


Like Jordan Farmar!

Jokes aside, I'm not crazy about him. He may be a pass first guard but he doesn't have that elite court vision that can pick a team apart.


Unfortunately, I see the same.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2017 8:55 am    Post subject:

Really think people need to chill out about that draft pick because chances are we're not keeping it. Better to root for the boys and hope for the best.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2017 9:01 am    Post subject:

Dwarf Nebula wrote:
Really think people need to chill out about that draft pick because chances are we're not keeping it. Better to root for the boys and hope for the best.


Exactly how I feel. This pick wasn't ours to begin with (in my mind) and the paramount concern is that our youngsters play as many meaningful minutes and try to win every game.

I still think that we will somehow get a top 3 pick even if we aren't bottom 3.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2017 9:07 am    Post subject:

Dwarf Nebula wrote:
Really think people need to chill out about that draft pick because chances are we're not keeping it. Better to root for the boys and hope for the best.


The same kind of talk went on last year at this time, and we got no.2. I ain't chillin about the draft pick because I expect us to keep it...until we don't. Fultz or Smith Jr, I already love the sound of it.
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PostPosted: Tue Feb 07, 2017 9:58 am    Post subject:

LakerDYnasty72 wrote:
Dwarf Nebula wrote:
Really think people need to chill out about that draft pick because chances are we're not keeping it. Better to root for the boys and hope for the best.


The same kind of talk went on last year at this time, and we got no.2. I ain't chillin about the draft pick because I expect us to keep it...until we don't. Fultz or Smith Jr, I already love the sound of it.


Wasn't last years top 5 protected? That's a big difference. I believe we always had a good chance of keeping that pick. This years odds are less than 50/50.
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