ok, warning, ridiculous thought experiment with lebron.
replace magic with lebron on the showtime teams. he has to do the same role, leading breaks and passing. it would be so bad. just turnover after turnover. and he doesn't get to change the strategy! he has to keep doing it! it would be like 30 turnovers. half would be travels, the other half would be just bad passes. lol. this is fact, btw.
Joined: 24 Dec 2007 Posts: 35812 Location: Santa Clarita, CA (Hell) ->>>>>Ithaca, NY -≥≥≥≥≥Berkeley, CA
Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2017 11:03 pm Post subject:
SuperboyReformed wrote:
ok, warning, ridiculous thought experiment with lebron.
replace magic with lebron on the showtime teams. he has to do the same role, leading breaks and passing. it would be so bad. just turnover after turnover. and he doesn't get to change the strategy! he has to keep doing it! it would be like 30 turnovers. half would be travels, the other half would be just bad passes. lol. this is fact, btw.
What if you replaced Magic with Kobe on the Showtime teams and forced him to perform the same role? _________________ Damian Lillard shatters Dwight Coward's championship dreams:
Joined: 10 Apr 2001 Posts: 65135 Location: Orange County, CA
Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2017 11:17 pm Post subject:
CandyCanes wrote:
SuperboyReformed wrote:
ok, warning, ridiculous thought experiment with lebron.
replace magic with lebron on the showtime teams. he has to do the same role, leading breaks and passing. it would be so bad. just turnover after turnover. and he doesn't get to change the strategy! he has to keep doing it! it would be like 30 turnovers. half would be travels, the other half would be just bad passes. lol. this is fact, btw.
What if you replaced Magic with Kobe on the Showtime teams and forced him to perform the same role?
Magic in the triangle would be bloody awesome.
Please, let Magic work that high post and low post and hook everyone. Or make Shaq a 33ppg player during the regular season. _________________ Resident Car Nut.
ok, warning, ridiculous thought experiment with lebron.
replace magic with lebron on the showtime teams. he has to do the same role, leading breaks and passing. it would be so bad. just turnover after turnover. and he doesn't get to change the strategy! he has to keep doing it! it would be like 30 turnovers. half would be travels, the other half would be just bad passes. lol. this is fact, btw.
What if you replaced Magic with Kobe on the Showtime teams and forced him to perform the same role?
If the Lakers had either Kobe or Lebron instead of Magic, they would have kept Norm Nixon as point guard and run a different type of offense. Would have still been a great team with either one of them.
That would actually be an interesting team:
C - Kareem
PF- Lebron
SF - Wilkes/Worthy
SG - Cooper
PG - Nixon
They'd be more of a half-court offense than a running team, and a stronger defensive team. They'd be more of a Celtics style from that era.
Joined: 07 Jun 2002 Posts: 9674 Location: San Diego
Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2017 11:28 pm Post subject:
activeverb wrote:
the association wrote:
yinoma2001 wrote:
Magic is my favorite player ever. So I can't be objective about this.
Same ... however, I feel justified in voting for Magic anyway. Both are all time greats, to be sure. But Magic's nine NBA Finals appearances and five rings in 13 seasons, to say nothing of how he played a pivotal role in revolutionizing the game we see before us today, are still more impactful achievements than what LeBron's been able to do thus far.
It's hard to make an apples to apples comparison. Magic was lucky to be drafted onto a team that already had a GOAT player, another Hall of Famer and a bunch of all-stars and DPOY guy.
That's not to diminish Magic. But most of the greats (Jordan, Lebron, Hakeem) aren't drafted onto teams that were one player away from the finals.
Well Kobe wasn't drafted by the Lakers either but by will, found his way here.
The other thing here is that Magic's career was cut way short. We NEVER really got to see him as the main Laker, with the team completely built around him as the #1 option. Instead, we got to see the rise of Jordan and the retirement of Magic. If he had not gotten the HIV virus, I am more than sure he would have won at least one more, possible two more rings and even Jordan would be out of this conversation. History is cruel. _________________ Never argue with stupid people! They will drag you down to their level and then beat you with experience!! - Twain
Joined: 24 Dec 2007 Posts: 35812 Location: Santa Clarita, CA (Hell) ->>>>>Ithaca, NY -≥≥≥≥≥Berkeley, CA
Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2017 11:55 pm Post subject:
activeverb wrote:
CandyCanes wrote:
SuperboyReformed wrote:
ok, warning, ridiculous thought experiment with lebron.
replace magic with lebron on the showtime teams. he has to do the same role, leading breaks and passing. it would be so bad. just turnover after turnover. and he doesn't get to change the strategy! he has to keep doing it! it would be like 30 turnovers. half would be travels, the other half would be just bad passes. lol. this is fact, btw.
What if you replaced Magic with Kobe on the Showtime teams and forced him to perform the same role?
If the Lakers had either Kobe or Lebron instead of Magic, they would have kept Norm Nixon as point guard and run a different type of offense. Would have still been a great team with either one of them.
That would actually be an interesting team:
C - Kareem
PF- Lebron
SF - Wilkes/Worthy
SG - Cooper
PG - Nixon
They'd be more of a half-court offense than a running team, and a stronger defensive team. They'd be more of a Celtics style from that era.
But Superboy's rules were that you cannot change the role or strategy. Thus, Kobe would have to be a facilitator. _________________ Damian Lillard shatters Dwight Coward's championship dreams:
Magic is my favorite player ever. So I can't be objective about this.
Same ... however, I feel justified in voting for Magic anyway. Both are all time greats, to be sure. But Magic's nine NBA Finals appearances and five rings in 13 seasons, to say nothing of how he played a pivotal role in revolutionizing the game we see before us today, are still more impactful achievements than what LeBron's been able to do thus far.
It's hard to make an apples to apples comparison. Magic was lucky to be drafted onto a team that already had a GOAT player, another Hall of Famer and a bunch of all-stars and DPOY guy.
That's not to diminish Magic. But most of the greats (Jordan, Lebron, Hakeem) aren't drafted onto teams that were one player away from the finals.
Well Kobe wasn't drafted by the Lakers either but by will, found his way here.
The other thing here is that Magic's career was cut way short. We NEVER really got to see him as the main Laker, with the team completely built around him as the #1 option. Instead, we got to see the rise of Jordan and the retirement of Magic. If he had not gotten the HIV virus, I am more than sure he would have won at least one more, possible two more rings and even Jordan would be out of this conversation. History is cruel.
Don't see how you think Kobe found his way here "by will." We arranged for the Cavs to draft him for us. If he got here by anyone's will, I'd say it was Jerry West's. But onto the real topic ...
It's cool that you are "more than sure" that Magic would have won one or two more rings. I suspect lots of Jordan fans are "more than sure" he'd have 5 or 6 more rings if he hadn't played baseball and retired after the second threepeat.
Heck, I think every player on the GOAT short list has at least a couple "what if" rings. They give those puppies out pretty easily.
Magic is my favorite player ever. So I can't be objective about this.
Same ... however, I feel justified in voting for Magic anyway. Both are all time greats, to be sure. But Magic's nine NBA Finals appearances and five rings in 13 seasons, to say nothing of how he played a pivotal role in revolutionizing the game we see before us today, are still more impactful achievements than what LeBron's been able to do thus far.
It's hard to make an apples to apples comparison. Magic was lucky to be drafted onto a team that already had a GOAT player, another Hall of Famer and a bunch of all-stars and DPOY guy.
That's not to diminish Magic. But most of the greats (Jordan, Lebron, Hakeem) aren't drafted onto teams that were one player away from the finals.
Well Kobe wasn't drafted by the Lakers either but by will, found his way here.
The other thing here is that Magic's career was cut way short. We NEVER really got to see him as the main Laker, with the team completely built around him as the #1 option. Instead, we got to see the rise of Jordan and the retirement of Magic. If he had not gotten the HIV virus, I am more than sure he would have won at least one more, possible two more rings and even Jordan would be out of this conversation. History is cruel.
Don't see how you think Kobe found his way here "by will." We arranged for the Cavs to draft him for us. If he got here by anyone's will, I'd say it was Jerry West's. But onto the real topic ...
It's cool that you are "more than sure" that Magic would have won one or two more rings. I suspect lots of Jordan fans are "more than sure" he'd have 5 or 6 more rings if he hadn't played baseball and retired after the second threepeat.
Heck, I think every player on the GOAT short list has at least a couple "what if" rings. They give those puppies out pretty easily.
The Hornets drafted Kobe, and then traded him to us a few weeks later ... however, it's common knowledge by now that he refused to consider pre-draft workouts for certain teams drafting ahead of the 13th pick in the 1996 draft, and took specific steps to dictate where he would end up. It's true that Jerry West also maneuvered to acquire him, but there are enough first person accounts of what actually transpired to establish that intentional efforts were certainly made by Kobe and Arn Tellem to ensure that he landed in purple and gold. That Jerry West was willing to "conspire" with them is true, but I don't think there's any case to make that Kobe didn't find his way to LA "by will".
As far as Jordan and the possibility that he might have won more rings without having retired twice before he finally hung them up, I'd say 2 - 3 (max.) more rings is reasonable, but not 5 or 6 ...
Lebron is great, probably top 5-7 ever, but not better than Magic. Lebron vs. Kobe would be a more compelling argument.
Except Kobe is better than Magic, so not really.
I don't agree with the assessment above, and neither does just about every professional covering the sport of basketball who publishes an All Time Great list. It's substantially more challenging finding a list with Kobe ahead of Magic than it is to find five with Magic ahead of Kobe. And the same is true in a discussion between Kareem and Kobe. Actually, I don't think I've ever seen a credible list with Kobe ahead of Kareem. Maybe support can be found for that idea if you limit the discussion to Kareem's Lakers career vs. Kobe's Lakers career, but otherwise ... I don't think so.
ok, warning, ridiculous thought experiment with lebron.
replace magic with lebron on the showtime teams. he has to do the same role, leading breaks and passing. it would be so bad. just turnover after turnover. and he doesn't get to change the strategy! he has to keep doing it! it would be like 30 turnovers. half would be travels, the other half would be just bad passes. lol. this is fact, btw.
ok, warning, ridiculous thought experiment with lebron.
replace magic with lebron on the showtime teams. he has to do the same role, leading breaks and passing. it would be so bad. just turnover after turnover. and he doesn't get to change the strategy! he has to keep doing it! it would be like 30 turnovers. half would be travels, the other half would be just bad passes. lol. this is fact, btw.
What if you replaced Magic with Kobe on the Showtime teams and forced him to perform the same role?
If the Lakers had either Kobe or Lebron instead of Magic, they would have kept Norm Nixon as point guard and run a different type of offense. Would have still been a great team with either one of them.
That would actually be an interesting team:
C - Kareem
PF- Lebron
SF - Wilkes/Worthy
SG - Cooper
PG - Nixon
They'd be more of a half-court offense than a running team, and a stronger defensive team. They'd be more of a Celtics style from that era.
But Superboy's rules were that you cannot change the role or strategy. Thus, Kobe would have to be a facilitator.
Oh, I wasn't playing his what if game. I was playing the what if game that you simply add Kobe and LeBron to Showtime, and then use the players in the most effective way
That said, sure, I could see Lebron or Kobe playing point guard on Showtime, even though it's really not their position. Not saying that would have been as good as Magic, but they both have sufficient ball handling and passing ability for the job.
Last edited by activeverb on Sat Feb 04, 2017 1:47 pm; edited 1 time in total
Joined: 10 Dec 2006 Posts: 52652 Location: Making a safety stop at 15 feet.
Posted: Sat Feb 04, 2017 10:22 am Post subject:
activeverb wrote:
DaMuleRules wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
The word "indisputable" has no application in these discussion. If I felt the urge, I could construct a plausible argument that Lebron is the GOAT, or that Superboy is right about him. Well, maybe not the latter.
Agreed. The discussions of who is the GOAT in the handful of greatest evers is pointless.
All I will say is that if I were a team owner/GM building a team around the player of my choice - between Magic and El BJ, I'd take Magic every day of the week and twice on Sunday.
There is a big difference between indisputable and pointless.
For me, the point of a GOAT debate isn't to find a consensus. It's to see what people's reasoning for their opinion is, and how well that reasoning stands up to challenges.
I meant "Pointless" in terms of the impossibility of ever determining such a thing because there are so many varied reasons and criteria - not that the arguments were completely lacking in merit. _________________ You thought God was an architect, now you know
He’s something like a pipe bomb ready to blow
And everything you built that’s all for show
goes up in flames
In 24 frames
The word "indisputable" has no application in these discussion. If I felt the urge, I could construct a plausible argument that Lebron is the GOAT, or that Superboy is right about him. Well, maybe not the latter.
Agreed. The discussions of who is the GOAT in the handful of greatest evers is pointless.
All I will say is that if I were a team owner/GM building a team around the player of my choice - between Magic and El BJ, I'd take Magic every day of the week and twice on Sunday.
There is a big difference between indisputable and pointless.
For me, the point of a GOAT debate isn't to find a consensus. It's to see what people's reasoning for their opinion is, and how well that reasoning stands up to challenges.
I meant "Pointless" in terms of the impossibility of ever determining such a thing because there are so many varied reasons and criteria - not that the arguments were completely lacking in merit.
Well, sure, ranking players is completely subjective. It's something you do for fun -- if doing it is not fun for someone, no reason for them to take part.
Lebron is great, probably top 5-7 ever, but not better than Magic. Lebron vs. Kobe would be a more compelling argument.
Except Kobe is better than Magic, so not really.
I don't agree with the assessment above, and neither does just about every professional covering the sport of basketball who publishes an All Time Great list. It's substantially more challenging finding a list with Kobe ahead of Magic than it is to find five with Magic ahead of Kobe. And the same is true in a discussion between Kareem and Kobe. Actually, I don't think I've ever seen a credible list with Kobe ahead of Kareem. Maybe support can be found for that idea if you limit the discussion to Kareem's Lakers career vs. Kobe's Lakers career, but otherwise ... I don't think so.
LeBron is ahead of Kobe on every reputable writers list, too
Lebron is great, probably top 5-7 ever, but not better than Magic. Lebron vs. Kobe would be a more compelling argument.
Except Kobe is better than Magic, so not really.
I don't agree with the assessment above, and neither does just about every professional covering the sport of basketball who publishes an All Time Great list. It's substantially more challenging finding a list with Kobe ahead of Magic than it is to find five with Magic ahead of Kobe. And the same is true in a discussion between Kareem and Kobe. Actually, I don't think I've ever seen a credible list with Kobe ahead of Kareem. Maybe support can be found for that idea if you limit the discussion to Kareem's Lakers career vs. Kobe's Lakers career, but otherwise ... I don't think so.
Kobe will never be ahead of Kareem as a player. But Kobe is ahead of Magic, and Kobe is the greatest Laker of all time(if Kareem's entire career was as a Laker he'd be ahead, but it wasn't). So yeah.
And the only reason someone wouldn't put Kobe ahead of Magic is nostalgia.
venturalakersfan wrote:
MJST wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
Lebron is great, probably top 5-7 ever, but not better than Magic. Lebron vs. Kobe would be a more compelling argument.
Except Kobe is better than Magic, so not really.
Disagree.
I don't.
Kobe Bryant Lakers Ranks
Seasons: 1st
Playoffs Seasons: 1st
All-Star Appearances: 1st
NBA First Team: 1st
NBA Defensive First Team: 1st
Games: 1st
Season Points: 1st
Playoff Points: 1st
Points in a Season: 1st (2,832)
Points in a Game: 1st (81)
Points in a Half: 1st (55)
Points in a Quarter: 1st (30) twice
60 Point Games: 1st (5)
50 Point Games(career): 1st (24)
50 Point Games(Season): 1st (10)
Consecutive 50 Point Games: 1st (4)
40 Point Games(career): 1st (121)
40 Point Games(Season): 1st (27)
Consecutive 40 Point Games: 1st (9)
Field Goals Made in a Quarter: 1st
Field Goals Made in a Half: 1st
Field Goals Made in a game: 1st
Free Throws: 1st
Free Throws(Consecutive Playoff Record): 1st
Steals: 1st
Steals(Half): 1st (6)
Steals(Quarter): 1st (3)
Lakers All-Time Assist Leader: 2nd
Minutes: 1st
Minutes(Playoffs): 1st
Most Points Scored in Christmas Games: 1st (All-Time)
Championships: 1st (Tied)
All-Star MVP's won: 1st (tied all time)
All-Star Points Scored(Career): 1st
3-Pointers Made in a Single Game: 1st
Only Laker(and Player) in NBA History to have over 30,000 Points and 6,000 Assists
Only Player and Laker in NBA History to have over 30,000 Points, 7,000 Rebounds and 6,000 Assists
Greatest Laker of All-Time: Kobe Bryant
it's inarguable. Kobe is better than Magic. Only nostalgia glasses would keep Magic ahead.
Lebron is great, probably top 5-7 ever, but not better than Magic. Lebron vs. Kobe would be a more compelling argument.
Except Kobe is better than Magic, so not really.
I don't agree with the assessment above, and neither does just about every professional covering the sport of basketball who publishes an All Time Great list. It's substantially more challenging finding a list with Kobe ahead of Magic than it is to find five with Magic ahead of Kobe. And the same is true in a discussion between Kareem and Kobe. Actually, I don't think I've ever seen a credible list with Kobe ahead of Kareem. Maybe support can be found for that idea if you limit the discussion to Kareem's Lakers career vs. Kobe's Lakers career, but otherwise ... I don't think so.
Kobe will never be ahead of Kareem as a player. But Kobe is ahead of Magic, and Kobe is the greatest Laker of all time(if Kareem's entire career was as a Laker he'd be ahead, but it wasn't). So yeah.
And the only reason someone wouldn't put Kobe ahead of Magic is nostalgia.
venturalakersfan wrote:
MJST wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
Lebron is great, probably top 5-7 ever, but not better than Magic. Lebron vs. Kobe would be a more compelling argument.
Except Kobe is better than Magic, so not really.
Disagree.
I don't.
Kobe Bryant Lakers Ranks
Seasons: 1st
Playoffs Seasons: 1st
All-Star Appearances: 1st
NBA First Team: 1st
NBA Defensive First Team: 1st
Games: 1st
Season Points: 1st
Playoff Points: 1st
Points in a Season: 1st (2,832)
Points in a Game: 1st (81)
Points in a Half: 1st (55)
Points in a Quarter: 1st (30) twice
60 Point Games: 1st (5)
50 Point Games(career): 1st (24)
50 Point Games(Season): 1st (10)
Consecutive 50 Point Games: 1st (4)
40 Point Games(career): 1st (121)
40 Point Games(Season): 1st (27)
Consecutive 40 Point Games: 1st (9)
Field Goals Made in a Quarter: 1st
Field Goals Made in a Half: 1st
Field Goals Made in a game: 1st
Free Throws: 1st
Free Throws(Consecutive Playoff Record): 1st
Steals: 1st
Steals(Half): 1st (6)
Steals(Quarter): 1st (3)
Lakers All-Time Assist Leader: 2nd
Minutes: 1st
Minutes(Playoffs): 1st
Most Points Scored in Christmas Games: 1st (All-Time)
Championships: 1st (Tied)
All-Star MVP's won: 1st (tied all time)
All-Star Points Scored(Career): 1st
3-Pointers Made in a Single Game: 1st
Only Laker(and Player) in NBA History to have over 30,000 Points and 6,000 Assists
Only Player and Laker in NBA History to have over 30,000 Points, 7,000 Rebounds and 6,000 Assists
Greatest Laker of All-Time: Kobe Bryant
it's inarguable. Kobe is better than Magic. Only nostalgia glasses would keep Magic ahead.
Kobe's longevity should def count but Magic went to the finals 9 times out of 13 seasons, more MVP, assist leader of all time... you're not wrong, they're not wrong either
Lebron is great, probably top 5-7 ever, but not better than Magic. Lebron vs. Kobe would be a more compelling argument.
Except Kobe is better than Magic, so not really.
I don't agree with the assessment above, and neither does just about every professional covering the sport of basketball who publishes an All Time Great list. It's substantially more challenging finding a list with Kobe ahead of Magic than it is to find five with Magic ahead of Kobe. And the same is true in a discussion between Kareem and Kobe. Actually, I don't think I've ever seen a credible list with Kobe ahead of Kareem. Maybe support can be found for that idea if you limit the discussion to Kareem's Lakers career vs. Kobe's Lakers career, but otherwise ... I don't think so.
Kobe will never be ahead of Kareem as a player. But Kobe is ahead of Magic, and Kobe is the greatest Laker of all time(if Kareem's entire career was as a Laker he'd be ahead, but it wasn't). So yeah.
And the only reason someone wouldn't put Kobe ahead of Magic is nostalgia.
venturalakersfan wrote:
MJST wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
Lebron is great, probably top 5-7 ever, but not better than Magic. Lebron vs. Kobe would be a more compelling argument.
Except Kobe is better than Magic, so not really.
Disagree.
I don't.
Kobe Bryant Lakers Ranks
Seasons: 1st
Playoffs Seasons: 1st
All-Star Appearances: 1st
NBA First Team: 1st
NBA Defensive First Team: 1st
Games: 1st
Season Points: 1st
Playoff Points: 1st
Points in a Season: 1st (2,832)
Points in a Game: 1st (81)
Points in a Half: 1st (55)
Points in a Quarter: 1st (30) twice
60 Point Games: 1st (5)
50 Point Games(career): 1st (24)
50 Point Games(Season): 1st (10)
Consecutive 50 Point Games: 1st (4)
40 Point Games(career): 1st (121)
40 Point Games(Season): 1st (27)
Consecutive 40 Point Games: 1st (9)
Field Goals Made in a Quarter: 1st
Field Goals Made in a Half: 1st
Field Goals Made in a game: 1st
Free Throws: 1st
Free Throws(Consecutive Playoff Record): 1st
Steals: 1st
Steals(Half): 1st (6)
Steals(Quarter): 1st (3)
Lakers All-Time Assist Leader: 2nd
Minutes: 1st
Minutes(Playoffs): 1st
Most Points Scored in Christmas Games: 1st (All-Time)
Championships: 1st (Tied)
All-Star MVP's won: 1st (tied all time)
All-Star Points Scored(Career): 1st
3-Pointers Made in a Single Game: 1st
Only Laker(and Player) in NBA History to have over 30,000 Points and 6,000 Assists
Only Player and Laker in NBA History to have over 30,000 Points, 7,000 Rebounds and 6,000 Assists
Greatest Laker of All-Time: Kobe Bryant
it's inarguable. Kobe is better than Magic. Only nostalgia glasses would keep Magic ahead.
Oh, you could just as easily list Magic's accomplishments and say: "it's inarguable. Magic is better than Kobe Only people who think the NBA was created In 1990 would keep Kobe ahead." And that would be just as persuasive as your approach (which is to say not at all.)
For me, your list could be boiled down to one sentence: The case for Kobe over Magic is longevity and scoring.
Fair enough. There have been lots of great Lakers and longevity is a reasonable factor for selecting Kobe.
Personally, I go with Magic, but Kobe is a close second.
it's inarguable. Kobe is better than Magic. Only nostalgia glasses would keep Magic ahead.
Are you old enough to have watched both of these players throughout their respective careers? I'm in my early 40s, so I base my views on conclusions drawn while following Magic's career from Day 1 and Kobe's career from Day 1. It's not nostalgia for me. As AV pointed out, your argument is largely based on longevity and raw scoring and popularity contest considerations, without very much regard to the other areas of the game.
It also neglects to recognize the areas where Magic clearly outperformed Kobe ... rebounds, assists, steals, scoring efficiency (FG and FT %age), all of the relevant advanced statistics ... and then there's the more esoteric concepts like leadership, poise in stepping up to deliver legendary performances on the biggest stage (the NBA Finals), and the even broader concept of being "a winner" ... Magic never played on an NBA team that won less than 53 games. His teams never failed to qualify for the postseason. He didn't struggle to co-exist with other all time greats on his teams, those he might have otherwise deemed to have been "stealing" some of "his" spotlight. Magic played one year of college basketball ... and he was an NCAA champion. He played perhaps the greatest game in NBA history (factoring in all of the conditions and the results I posted upstream) in leading the Lakers to the NBA championship in his rookie season. He played 13 seasons, but the final one was a throwaway because he played less than 3% of his career minutes in the 1995/96 season when he returned after four years of retirement ... so in the 12 full seasons of his career, he guided his team to the NBA Finals nine times. This final detail means that 75% of the time, he played a crucial role in positioning our franchise to compete for an NBA title.
Nope. Just depends on what you prioritize. When you prioritize winning, Magic is ahead of Bryant.
Kobe has the same amount of championships as Magic in less finals. So I wouldn't say that.
Let's not forget also that while Magic's Finals Game performance which lead to his first Championship was grand, it was Kareem who deserved Finals MVP.
Not to mention what Kobe was able to do for the Lakers team from 2007-2010 with 3 straight Finals appearances had a less talented team than Magic ever manned. You look at that 2007-2010 Lakers squad and you tell me how 'stacked' they were. When you look at that accomplishment and the fact and how quick that turnaround was just by giving Kobe a 2nd option, I can't deny that.
I prioritize winning and longevity, and Kobe had both.
Last edited by MJST on Mon Feb 06, 2017 12:10 pm; edited 2 times in total
Nope. Just depends on what you prioritize. When you prioritize winning, Magic is ahead of Bryant.
Kobe has the same amount of championships as Magic in less finals. So I wouldn't say that.
Let's not forget also that while Magic's Finals Game performance which lead to his first Championship was grand, it was Kareem who deserved Finals MVP.
Not to mention what Kobe was able to do for the Lakers team from 2007-2010 with 3 straight Finals appearances had a less talented team than Magic ever manned. You look at that 2007-2010 Lakers squad and you tell me how 'stacked' they were. When you look at that accomplishment and the fact and how quick that turnaround was just by giving Kobe a 2nd option, I can't deny that.
I prioritize winning and longevity, and Kobe had both.
Less finals for Kobe is actually argument for Magic being better
Magic had Kareem, Kobe had Shaq... ok
That 07-10 Kobe led squad were awesome, not a lot of flashy names in the team but able to go to finals 3 straight times but Magic's team was called showtime not cause it sucked
Joined: 10 Apr 2001 Posts: 65135 Location: Orange County, CA
Posted: Mon Feb 06, 2017 12:04 pm Post subject:
MJST wrote:
Mike@LG wrote:
Quote:
nostalgia glasses would keep Magic ahead.
Nope. Just depends on what you prioritize. When you prioritize winning, Magic is ahead of Bryant.
Kobe has the same amount of championships as Magic in less finals. So I wouldn't say that.
Let's not forget also that while Magic's Finals Game performance which lead to his first Championship was grand, it was Kareem who deserved Finals MVP.
Not to mention what Kobe was able to do for the Lakers team from 2007-2010 with 3 straight Finals appearances had a less talented team than Magic ever manned. You look at that 2007-2010 Lakers squad and you tell me how 'stacked' they were. When you look at that accomplishment and the fact and how quick that turnaround was just by giving Kobe a 2nd option, I can't deny that.
I prioritize winning and longevity, and Kobe had both.
I prioritize winning too. How many lottery seasons with Magic? How many Finals appearances? I'm guessing his regular season winning percentages are off the chart.
You want to go by efficiency in terms of championships and finals appearances? Fine. I'll still think the 80's were the most competitive Final 2-3 teams of the decade.
I'd also argue, 5 championships, in half of Kobe's career span.
Take away Magic's rookie Finals MVP if you'd like. Magic didn't need a triangle offense to win. He just won from the get-go. When the Lakers got lottery picks and traded vets for rookies? Didn't matter. Still won. When an arguable GOAT on major decline (Kareem) left and the Lakers had a rookie/2nd year Yugoslavian C who was perceived as soft? Still made the Finals. _________________ Resident Car Nut.
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