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lakers4life78
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Joined: 09 Apr 2012
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Location: Southern California
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 Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2017 10:29 am Post subject: |
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One argument:
We're a young team with players that have upside and need time to grow. Ingram has a star's skill set and Russell has a high ceiling. Walton is an excellent young coach that needs time. Mitch needs more time. Free agents will come when the team is good,
Second argument:
This organization is a dumpster fire. There's not a real difference maker in their young core. Mitch is a dinosaur. Walton is in over his head, and they may only have one first round pick the next 3 years. Plus they signed two terrible veteran free agent deals. The CBA screwed over the Lakers.
In either scenario the Lakers are YEARS away. I think some thing in both scenarios are true.
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Dr. Funkbot
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Joined: 24 Sep 2001
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Location: Eagle Rock
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| Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2017 10:35 am Post subject: |
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It's the injuries. The team was rolling until the injuries hit. Damn injuries again.
But it is what it is. Our team is not deep enough to withstand injuries.DLO is out again, so it will be very hard for us to win games going forward until he is back.
Deng and Tina Fey Mozgov were terrible bad signings. UGG, but the draft picks have been on point.
As long as we don't panic and trade away the core for an aging vet we will be golden in a few years.
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activeverb
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Joined: 17 Jun 2006
Posts: 37470
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| Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2017 10:37 am Post subject: Re: STATE OF THE LAKERS: Where Are We? |
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| pio2u wrote: | | All this means is that the FO has work to do and it's up to them to come up with viable plans and solutions. |
It's possible that the current plan is as viable as any other plan.
The problem is we base our expectations on an astronomical level of success that may well not be repeatable given the current CBA and societal changes, such as social media making it less important to play in large, media-heavy cities.
People say, "Yeah, I get it, we're rebuilding - no problem," and then after we lose 5 games in a row they screamed, "Why is this happening? Fix it. Make trades. Get us in contention by next week." |
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yinoma2001
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Joined: 19 Jun 2010
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| Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2017 10:43 am Post subject: |
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I know we measure (rightfully so) things by championships.
I've sadly (but realistically) lowered that expectation of this franchise (at least for the next 5 years) to making the playoffs.
We are still a ways away from the playoffs. I was hoping for more from MozDeng but this has been disappointing.
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TheBlackMamba
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Joined: 23 Apr 2007
Posts: 9057
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| Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2017 10:56 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | I know we measure (rightfully so) things by championships.
I've sadly (but realistically) lowered that expectation of this franchise (at least for the next 5 years) to making the playoffs.
We are still a ways away from the playoffs. I was hoping for more from MozDeng but this has been disappointing. |
To be fair, though, when you have very young players, the outlook can change significantly from year to year. Things look pretty (bleep) right now, I'm not gonna lie. But let's see how the rest of the games this season go, and what another summer of hard work can do for the kids. I'm still hopeful that the current core can make a difference. Just gotta ignore the noise from the media and other fans writing us off after 0.5 seasons... |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2017 10:59 am Post subject: |
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| TheBlackMamba wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | I know we measure (rightfully so) things by championships.
I've sadly (but realistically) lowered that expectation of this franchise (at least for the next 5 years) to making the playoffs.
We are still a ways away from the playoffs. I was hoping for more from MozDeng but this has been disappointing. |
To be fair, though, when you have very young players, the outlook can change significantly from year to year. Things look pretty (bleep) right now, I'm not gonna lie. But let's see how the rest of the games this season go, and what another summer of hard work can do for the kids. I'm still hopeful that the current core can make a difference. Just gotta ignore the noise from the media and other fans writing us off after 0.5 seasons... |
My 5 year outlook from now is that I hope by 2 years from now (2018 season) we are a solid playoff team. Next year is anyone's guess though I think we hopefully go from 28-30 wins this year to 40 wins the next.
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Ujah's Goat
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Joined: 01 Jun 2016
Posts: 1417
Location: Babylon
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| Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2017 1:47 pm Post subject: |
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All the pink slips Jimbo handed out after our back to back ships are catching up to him. Now it's his turn
#karma |
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pio2u
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tox
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Joined: 16 Nov 2015
Posts: 17886
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| Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2017 7:23 pm Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | TheBlackMamba wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | I know we measure (rightfully so) things by championships.
I've sadly (but realistically) lowered that expectation of this franchise (at least for the next 5 years) to making the playoffs.
We are still a ways away from the playoffs. I was hoping for more from MozDeng but this has been disappointing. |
To be fair, though, when you have very young players, the outlook can change significantly from year to year. Things look pretty (bleep) right now, I'm not gonna lie. But let's see how the rest of the games this season go, and what another summer of hard work can do for the kids. I'm still hopeful that the current core can make a difference. Just gotta ignore the noise from the media and other fans writing us off after 0.5 seasons... |
My 5 year outlook from now is that I hope by 2 years from now (2018 season) we are a solid playoff team. Next year is anyone's guess though I think we hopefully go from 28-30 wins this year to 40 wins the next. |
Celtics went from 27-55 to 40 to 48 in the first 3 seasons of Brad Stevens' tenure.
I think we do the same. |
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pio2u
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Joined: 26 Dec 2012
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| Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2017 8:05 pm Post subject: |
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| tox wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | TheBlackMamba wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | I know we measure (rightfully so) things by championships.
I've sadly (but realistically) lowered that expectation of this franchise (at least for the next 5 years) to making the playoffs.
We are still a ways away from the playoffs. I was hoping for more from MozDeng but this has been disappointing. |
To be fair, though, when you have very young players, the outlook can change significantly from year to year. Things look pretty (bleep) right now, I'm not gonna lie. But let's see how the rest of the games this season go, and what another summer of hard work can do for the kids. I'm still hopeful that the current core can make a difference. Just gotta ignore the noise from the media and other fans writing us off after 0.5 seasons... |
My 5 year outlook from now is that I hope by 2 years from now (2018 season) we are a solid playoff team. Next year is anyone's guess though I think we hopefully go from 28-30 wins this year to 40 wins the next. |
Celtics went from 27-55 to 40 to 48 in the first 3 seasons of Brad Stevens' tenure.
I think we do the same. |
I also believe that we will turn it around and have similar results. This team is young but they are talented.
However we will have to vastly improve on the defensive side. Accountability is the key. |
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splashmtn
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Joined: 30 Aug 2016
Posts: 3961
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| Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2017 10:36 pm Post subject: |
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| danzag wrote: | There's an interesting quote from Jordan Clarkson on that NBA.com article:
| Quote: | | “This is the first time that we’ve been able to kind of learn from our mistakes, play with each other, learn with each other. The last two years that I’ve been here, we’ve kind of had to deal with situations. At the same time, it was all deserved. But now it’s kind of our time to turn the page and just learn.” |
Our rebuilding started this year. Unfortunately, our 3rd and 2nd year players (Randle, Clarkson, Russell) are basically rookies because Byron simply couldn't teach them anything.
The players are learning, the coach is learning.
I didn't like the hiring of Mike Brown, nor Mike D'Antoni. I don't like those Mozgov and Deng contracts. I'm not happy about being swept by the freaking Mavs this season. But even after all that bullsh*t and losing seasons, we still have a great young core and some cap flexibility for our next free agency.
I think that this core (Russell, Ingram, Randle, Clarkson, Nance, Zubac) is a unique combination of talent and have a great chance to succeed under Walton, and I'm willing to give them 2 more years to get to .500 basketball, and to decide whether I want Jim Buss gone or not. |
can't blame it all on byron. you have to blame it on todays young guys as well. they couldn't take that type of coaching. most of these current young guys can't. and thats in all sports. shoot, thats in life in general.
so in comes luke who fits them much better.
but a lot of it has to do with kobe being on the team and being hurt and on a fairwell tour. you should have known then. that it was a some what lost year for the kids. the one thing they did get out of it is to learn from old man kobe and his will to push thru anything. obviously if they were smart they would've picked his brain about everything basketball. aside from that. there wasnt much to learn since it wasnt a real season when you literally have the best player the league has seen since jordan retiring and waving good bye every night. then the injuries we've dealt with since the dwight howard deal. think about it. we have had record breaking injuries to those vets, then we've had it to our half vet, half young guys rosters. then we started to ball this season and what happened? the injury bug killed all of that.
so we not only have these last two CBA's working against us and the nixed cp3 deal that pushed our rebuilding back much further. but we also had to deal with a rash of injuries over the past say 5 years or so that has killed any momentum we would ever gain during each season.
Until our guys can stop getting so hurt so often. we will never be but so good. even if the kids grow up and get better. they will win more games but never enough due to injury if this keeps happening. we've already allowed old man vitti to retire. so this can't be put on him either. it's a horrible string of bad luck in the injury category. |
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dood23
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Joined: 16 Jun 2010
Posts: 12084
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| Posted: Tue Jan 24, 2017 11:27 pm Post subject: |
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we are about to
ENJOY.
THIS.
SUNDAY.
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"There's only 2 dudes better than me, and I'm BOTH OF THEM." |
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Stumpy25
Star Player
Joined: 27 Oct 2016
Posts: 1314
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| Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2017 10:32 am Post subject: |
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| lakers4life78 wrote: | One argument:
We're a young team with players that have upside and need time to grow. Ingram has a star's skill set and Russell has a high ceiling. Walton is an excellent young coach that needs time. Mitch needs more time. Free agents will come when the team is good,
Second argument:
This organization is a dumpster fire. There's not a real difference maker in their young core. Mitch is a dinosaur. Walton is in over his head, and they may only have one first round pick the next 3 years. Plus they signed two terrible veteran free agent deals. The CBA screwed over the Lakers.
In either scenario the Lakers are YEARS away. I think some thing in both scenarios are true. |
What Barkley said even though I don't agree with him most of the time is right. He said the Lakers had good young talent but not great talent. Good in the NBA just means a mediocre team. The Lakers need to look at their young players and asses who will continue to improve. Assessment is based on factors like work ethic, improvement in areas of concern and problems that can or cannot be corrected et. Imho opinion the Lakers have a few players that will improve and get better, others that fit necessary roles and are keepers, while others that imho won't be much better a couple of years down the line. In other words they've reached most of their peak and should be traded asap, to some other team that thinks they can be something special. Unload now before it's too late. If you can get first round picks for them do it. This yearly waiting game is running thin among fans, and of course investors. At the same time the face of the FO needs to change and someone with basketball knowledge that is recognized as a special person should be in charge (ie. Magic, West etc) |
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Krispy Kreme
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Joined: 30 Mar 2003
Posts: 12252
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| Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2017 10:55 am Post subject: |
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we are a bad, young team in search of an owner who actually knows what he's doing. and we are also in search of a big time FA. however that comes (signing, trade, etc).
that's the word.
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pio2u
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Joined: 26 Dec 2012
Posts: 54647
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| Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2017 6:06 pm Post subject: |
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How Do We Measure Lakers Success This Season? 
Serena Winters weighs in on the Lakers season
| Quote: | what’s the measure of success for the Lakers this season now?
In reality, it hasn’t changed. It just feels a little different after being teased and let down with playoff possibilities and the novelty of laid back Luke slowly wearing off.
The measure of success for the Lakers this season has always been and will continue to be the development of their young core. Over half of the Lakers roster is 25 and under, three of which aren’t even of legal age to consume alcohol. |
http://www.lakersnation.com/measuring-the-lakers-success-this-2016-season/2017/01/25/ |
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laker4life
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Joined: 26 Nov 2001
Posts: 7324
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| Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2017 6:21 pm Post subject: |
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| Ujah's Goat wrote: | All the pink slips Jimbo handed out after our back to back ships are catching up to him. Now it's his turn
#karma |
Yeah forgot about that purge of employees related to Phil.
Jimbo will not be getting any sympathy |
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Ujah's Goat
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Joined: 01 Jun 2016
Posts: 1417
Location: Babylon
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| Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2017 7:21 pm Post subject: |
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| laker4life wrote: | | Ujah's Goat wrote: | All the pink slips Jimbo handed out after our back to back ships are catching up to him. Now it's his turn
#karma |
Yeah forgot about that purge of employees related to Phil.
Jimbo will not be getting any sympathy |
That was easily the oddest thing I have seen happen on the professional side of a sporting team. All posturing to get rid of those associated with Phil, but to what end? Why immediately after going back to back? Can you imagine the Spurs doing something like that to get at Popovich? Didn't make sense to me then, still doesn't now.
#neverforget
##shipjimboout |
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pio2u
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Joined: 26 Dec 2012
Posts: 54647
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| Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2017 8:51 pm Post subject: |
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| Ujah's Goat wrote: | | laker4life wrote: | | Ujah's Goat wrote: | All the pink slips Jimbo handed out after our back to back ships are catching up to him. Now it's his turn
#karma |
Yeah forgot about that purge of employees related to Phil.
Jimbo will not be getting any sympathy |
That was easily the oddest thing I have seen happen on the professional side of a sporting team. All posturing to get rid of those associated with Phil, but to what end? Why immediately after going back to back? Can you imagine the Spurs doing something like that to get at Popovich? Didn't make sense to me then, still doesn't now.
#neverforget
##shipjimboout |
It seemed like a knee-jerk attempt to establish himself as the undisputed boss. If so, it backfired royally. |
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venturalakersfan
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Joined: 14 Apr 2001
Posts: 144476
Location: The Gold Coast
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| Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2017 10:08 pm Post subject: |
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| laker4life wrote: | | Ujah's Goat wrote: | All the pink slips Jimbo handed out after our back to back ships are catching up to him. Now it's his turn
#karma |
Yeah forgot about that purge of employees related to Phil.
Jimbo will not be getting any sympathy |
Most weren't related to Phil, most were there long before Phil got there.
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RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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ringfinger
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Posts: 29418
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| Posted: Wed Jan 25, 2017 10:21 pm Post subject: |
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| Lakers are in the same state I said we were a few weeks ago. Slightly behind schedule. Nothing has changed. That's the sad part. |
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frank70
Sixth Man
Joined: 05 Feb 2008
Posts: 74
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| Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2017 4:47 am Post subject: |
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Hi, i am new on the boards. I live in Germany and am an active coach of a basketball team (3rd division ... but still  ).
Obviously, English isn't my mother language. So you have to be a bit lenient if i make mistakes.
My 2cents:
I am not that positive about the state of the Lakers right now. Of course the roster isn't that well constructed at the moment (too many gun-happy guards like Lou, Nick and JC). But that's not a real problem considering the future. You can balance the roster out, when the young core is more ready to compete.
Speaking of the young core: speaking as a basketball coach ... i am not that optimistic.
Randle: He has without a question a very good combination of physical abilities. He is fast for his frame and has lateral quickness as well. He can be a force in transition where he gets a good amount of his assists from. He is a good rebounder although he hasn't even gotten good rebounding technique.
But what about his weaknesses?
Very low basketball IQ imho. Subpar midrange shot (at least technically), questionable finishing ability around the rim. Very poor defense (ability and will). No rim protection.
He lacks basketball fundamentals in a way that makes me almost speechless. What was he doing/learning the last 10 years? He cannot even set a proper screen. If you look at most of the European prospects you see good fundamentals most of the time (Zubac can set proper picks!)
Ingram: He is very young, but honestly there are already some question marks. His shooting form doesn't look that good (he has a hickup in his motion). So far he cannot create his own shot at all. His misses often aren't close, he misses quite a few shots by a lot. If we are honest: He simply doesn't look like a good shooter - as he was advertised.
Yes, he has a very good feel for the game - he has the IQ. His length will be helpful for the rest of his career. He will end up being at least a versatile, good NBA player.
He has to get stronger and to work on his shot. If he does he has a high ceiling. But imho he isn't looking like a safe thing or a No.1 option. He looks more like a complementary piece. A very versatile No.2 - what isn't a bad thing to have at all.
Russell: He has talent, no question. He sees the game well and often makes the right play - what is rare for a 20 year old point-guard. The key for his success is his shooting. If he shoots around 40% from three and gets dependable on pull-ups out of the pick.and-roll his playmaking abilities will start to shine. Can he get better? I would say so. His shooting form looks good.
Add his low-post abilities and i would say that we will have a very good player at point in two years.
If he can become an all-star? Or even more? I don't know. He is lacking a bit speed and quickness. If he can get a bit shiftier and can become better with changing pace, it could be possible. Working on his footwork would do wonders for his defensive effectivness as well.
Clarkson: Good 6th man. He lacks basketball IQ. His decision making isn't the best. He misses plays on a regular basis. He is 24 - basketball IQ normally cannot be "learned".
His defense is better this season but still not good.
WYSIWYG imho. Trade piece.
Nance: Very good role player in the future. Could possibly be a vital part for a bigger trade down the line. His value alone might not be that high. But in combination with another player?
Zubac: I liked what i have seen so far. Centers normally develop at a slower pace. Considering that, he has made good progess in his first year. His body has developed a bit already. He plays smart for a 19-year old. He has pretty good touch around the basket and has good fundamentals. He sets good screens and is rim protecting already. He will be a starting center in two or three years imho.
Conclusion:: I am not convinced that the young core is enough to bring us in contention. Maybe we need one major trade, packaging two of them to get a difference-maker. Russell and Ingram will probably be the best of the young guys, but maybe we have to trade one of them (with Nance, Clarkson or Randle) to make a splash in order to attract other all-star-caliber players.
Brandom Ingram, Julius Randle and a 1st rounder (that we maybe get for trading Lou) for ..... Paul George (in the off-season). Would that be enough? Probably not but it would probably be a start for negotiations. I would hate to give up Ingram. But you have to give to get.
We would have Russell, Clarkson, George, Nance and Zubac as a core. Would that be enough talent in 2018 to attract another high-impact-player? |
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danzag
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Joined: 28 Apr 2013
Posts: 22406
Location: Brazil
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| Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2017 4:56 am Post subject: |
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| frank70 wrote: | | Brandom Ingram, Julius Randle and a 1st rounder (that we maybe get for trading Lou) for ..... Paul George (in the off-season). Would that be enough? Probably not but it would probably be a start for negotiations. I would hate to give up Ingram. But you have to give to get. |
Welcome to LG, frank.
I'd be ecstatic if we could do those trades. |
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frank70
Sixth Man
Joined: 05 Feb 2008
Posts: 74
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| Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2017 5:05 am Post subject: |
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| danzag wrote: | | frank70 wrote: | | Brandom Ingram, Julius Randle and a 1st rounder (that we maybe get for trading Lou) for ..... Paul George (in the off-season). Would that be enough? Probably not but it would probably be a start for negotiations. I would hate to give up Ingram. But you have to give to get. |
Welcome to LG, frank.
I'd be ecstatic if we could do those trades. |
I don't know, what the situation will be in Indiana in the off-season. If George isn't happy and would be open for a trade? Maybe Indiana isn't convinced that he resigns 2018?
But maybe i am way off and Larry hangs up the phone cause he doesn't want to have Ingram nor Randle. As i said: my trade proposal might not (nearly) be enough. But we cannot give up Ingram+Russell.
Therefore keeping our Top 3 pick this year would be vital imho. |
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danzag
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Joined: 28 Apr 2013
Posts: 22406
Location: Brazil
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| Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2017 5:16 am Post subject: |
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| frank70 wrote: | | danzag wrote: | | frank70 wrote: | | Brandom Ingram, Julius Randle and a 1st rounder (that we maybe get for trading Lou) for ..... Paul George (in the off-season). Would that be enough? Probably not but it would probably be a start for negotiations. I would hate to give up Ingram. But you have to give to get. |
Welcome to LG, frank.
I'd be ecstatic if we could do those trades. |
I don't know, what the situation will be in Indiana in the off-season. If George isn't happy and would be open for a trade? Maybe Indiana isn't convinced that he resigns 2018?
But maybe i am way off and Larry hangs up the phone cause he doesn't want to have Ingram nor Randle. As i said: my trade proposal might not (nearly) be enough. But we cannot give up Ingram+Russell.
Therefore keeping our Top 3 pick this year would be vital imho. |
It seems that Paul George isn't happy on Indiana. I don't think he re-signs, but I don't know how Larry is planning to deal with it. Maybe he blows up the team and start a rebuilding.
But yeah, giving both Russell and Ingram would be too much. I wouldn't do it. |
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yinoma2001
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Joined: 19 Jun 2010
Posts: 119487
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| Posted: Thu Jan 26, 2017 6:50 am Post subject: |
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If the Lakers miss out on a top 3 pick, finish 2nd to last, this may be it for Jim (and Mitch probably retires). If Moz/Deng are your final moves after punting for 3 seasons, not much can be said to defend the long term plan.
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