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jodeke Retired Number
Joined: 17 Nov 2007 Posts: 67317 Location: In a world where admitting to not knowing something is considered a great way to learn.
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Posted: Wed Feb 01, 2017 11:21 pm Post subject: |
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I don't know if this has been posted.
Dwyane Wade on LeBron James' Charles Barkley rant: 'Thank God he finally said something'
LINK _________________ Be who you are and say what you feel because those who mind don't matter and those who matter don't mind.
America will never be destroyed from the outside. If we falter and lose our freedoms, it will be because we destroyed ourselves. |
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Goldenwest Star Player
Joined: 28 Nov 2009 Posts: 2801
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Posted: Wed Feb 01, 2017 11:31 pm Post subject: |
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ocho wrote: | Krispy Kreme wrote: | hilarious. he has 2 other all-stars playing with him in the EAST. you know, the conference that is a joke, no matter what ESPN/NBA try to put out about the celtics, hawks or raptors being some great threat to the cavs.
what more does he want? to form his "super friends" CP3 and Wade/Melo?
Maybe then he'd be happy. Freaking baby. |
He's pushing the buttons of his teammates. He does this every year. |
May work with some but not with others. Thompson didn't seem to like it. Going public with this kind of public humiliation crap will backfire IMO. Phil was a master of it and Lebron certainly doesn't have Phil's way with words and skill with subtle jabs |
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activeverb Retired Number
Joined: 17 Jun 2006 Posts: 37470
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Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2017 1:01 am Post subject: |
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ClemensBriels wrote: | Look no further than the top players in today's game vs the 90's for an indication of how much better the league is.
Bron
Harden
KD
Steph
Kyrie
PG
Kawhi
Giannis
Westbrook
M Gasol
Aldridge
Anthony Davis
Isaiah Thomas
CP3
Blake
(bleep) all over the top 15 players from any year in the 90's. The league is so much stronger top to bottom it's not even close |
I don't see how you go about showing those 15 guys are better than MJ, Hakeem, Karl Malone, Drexler, Pippen, etc. from the 1990s. Seems completely in the eye of the beholder. |
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activeverb Retired Number
Joined: 17 Jun 2006 Posts: 37470
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Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2017 1:03 am Post subject: |
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SuperboyReformed wrote: | activeverb wrote: | SuperboyReformed wrote: | i only mention it because if i called a "post" stupid or silly i may be a little more harshly dealt with. Otherwise i dont really care.
re obsession. you guys are obsessed with my posting habits, if anything. im on a laker board talking about kobe and lebron. a lot. what the heck else is there to do here. to call someone who types a lot of words about kobe and lebron on a laker discussion forum "obsessed" is quite unfair. and again, typical of you and a few others when it comes to me.
also, i have noticed here that any discussion like this devolves into this sort of (bleep) tat, and its you who is starting it (when i say you, i mean the lebron supporters). i for sure did not. |
You're obsessed, in the sense, you interject LeBron and Kobe constantly into discussions even when the discussion has nothing to do with them.
I don't call you or the other posters silly, but I have no trouble labeling many of opinions as silly. You constantly say you think LeBron is an average NBA player, which is simply a silly opinion.
I am not sure you consider a LeBron supporter. I'm not one. I have no emotional attachment to the guy, and don't really care if he fail or succeed. I do think he's a fun basketball player to watch and one of the greatest basketball players of all time on par with Kareem, magic, bird, Kobe, Duncan,shaq and the rest of the guys at the top of the heap. My interpretation is you consider a LeBron supporter anyone who doesn't attack him as you do
That's OK. This board and, in the NBA is simply about having fun and being entertained and that's how are you entertaining yourself. |
listen av (bleep) out of here with "obsessed" please. you have 20000+ posts and youre calling me obsessed. |
I have to admit 20,000 posts on this site is pretty pathetic. |
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Steve007 Franchise Player
Joined: 21 Jul 2006 Posts: 13165
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Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2017 4:18 am Post subject: |
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I don't even get why people mention the East. Lebron most likely needs to beat the Warriors to win a title, and his chances of winning a ring will depend a lot on whether the Cavs can beat that team, not on whether they can beat teams like Toronto, Boston, etc. In the last 6 years it has come down to whether the Lebron team can beat the champion from the West. Right now I think it doesn't look so good for Cleveland. And I thought they were really fortunate to beat the Warriors last year when GS didn't even have Durant and had Green suspended for a game. |
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RestEasyBlackMamba Star Player
Joined: 24 May 2015 Posts: 3061
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Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2017 7:52 am Post subject: |
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Lebron should've just kept the arguement basketball like Kobe did when Chuck called him a quitter. Barkley could've easily fired back at Lebron and brought up personal stuff like Delonte West. Whether he likes it or not a lot of people will perceive Lebron taking the easy path to finals. It was there the moment he signed with Miami. |
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governator Franchise Player
Joined: 28 Jan 2006 Posts: 24996
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Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2017 8:09 am Post subject: |
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activeverb wrote: | ClemensBriels wrote: | Look no further than the top players in today's game vs the 90's for an indication of how much better the league is.
Bron
Harden
KD
Steph
Kyrie
PG
Kawhi
Giannis
Westbrook
M Gasol
Aldridge
Anthony Davis
Isaiah Thomas
CP3
Blake
(bleep) all over the top 15 players from any year in the 90's. The league is so much stronger top to bottom it's not even close |
I don't see how you go about showing those 15 guys are better than MJ, Hakeem, Karl Malone, Drexler, Pippen, etc. from the 1990s. Seems completely in the eye of the beholder. |
Yeah, need to watch the older games on youtube. Most of the stuff you see today has been done before... some might be more refined like Steph (the new Ray Allen/Reggie Miller), Blake (the new Shawn Kemp), CP3 (there's a bunch of good PGs in 90s), PG13 (Kobe, MJ), Kawhi (Pippen), especially the bigs (90s bigs were great), more stretch bigs now but 90s had more paint dominating bigs (Shaq/Ewing/D.Rob/Hakeem/Eaton...)
The top talents of each eras overall are about equal |
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the association Star Player
Joined: 03 Feb 2015 Posts: 1982
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Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2017 8:22 am Post subject: |
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24ways2die wrote: | Lebron should've just kept the arguement basketball like Kobe did when Chuck called him a quitter. Barkley could've easily fired back at Lebron and brought up personal stuff like Delonte West. Whether he likes it or not a lot of people will perceive Lebron taking the easy path to finals. It was there the moment he signed with Miami. |
I don't think the pages of history will care about anything above (including the factual and relevancy errors in the opinion) when it comes to considering LeBron and his place within the pantheon of all time greats. With probably 3 - 4 years left in his NBA career after this season, he's already into the 4 - 7 range (or better) on the all time list for most experts and casual fans alike ... |
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the association Star Player
Joined: 03 Feb 2015 Posts: 1982
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Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2017 8:29 am Post subject: |
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governator wrote: | activeverb wrote: | ClemensBriels wrote: | Look no further than the top players in today's game vs the 90's for an indication of how much better the league is.
Bron
Harden
KD
Steph
Kyrie
PG
Kawhi
Giannis
Westbrook
M Gasol
Aldridge
Anthony Davis
Isaiah Thomas
CP3
Blake
(bleep) all over the top 15 players from any year in the 90's. The league is so much stronger top to bottom it's not even close |
I don't see how you go about showing those 15 guys are better than MJ, Hakeem, Karl Malone, Drexler, Pippen, etc. from the 1990s. Seems completely in the eye of the beholder. |
Yeah, need to watch the older games on youtube. Most of the stuff you see today has been done before... some might be more refined like Steph (the new Ray Allen/Reggie Miller), Blake (the new Shawn Kemp), CP3 (there's a bunch of good PGs in 90s), PG13 (Kobe, MJ), Kawhi (Pippen), especially the bigs (90s bigs were great), more stretch bigs now but 90s had more paint dominating bigs (Shaq/Ewing/D.Rob/Hakeem/Eaton...)
The top talents of each eras overall are about equal |
There's little dispute at this point that evolving training methods, nutrition, and other advances in sports sciences have yielded more capable athletes ...
I know this is a sensitive discussion for many people, but I just don't think it's logical to dispute that the modern day NBA contingent wouldn't struggle to outplay their counterparts from the 1990s, just as the players from the 1990s wouldn't struggle to outplay their counterparts from the 1970s (and so on) ... |
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governator Franchise Player
Joined: 28 Jan 2006 Posts: 24996
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Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2017 8:51 am Post subject: |
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the association wrote: | governator wrote: | activeverb wrote: | ClemensBriels wrote: | Look no further than the top players in today's game vs the 90's for an indication of how much better the league is.
Bron
Harden
KD
Steph
Kyrie
PG
Kawhi
Giannis
Westbrook
M Gasol
Aldridge
Anthony Davis
Isaiah Thomas
CP3
Blake
(bleep) all over the top 15 players from any year in the 90's. The league is so much stronger top to bottom it's not even close |
I don't see how you go about showing those 15 guys are better than MJ, Hakeem, Karl Malone, Drexler, Pippen, etc. from the 1990s. Seems completely in the eye of the beholder. |
Yeah, need to watch the older games on youtube. Most of the stuff you see today has been done before... some might be more refined like Steph (the new Ray Allen/Reggie Miller), Blake (the new Shawn Kemp), CP3 (there's a bunch of good PGs in 90s), PG13 (Kobe, MJ), Kawhi (Pippen), especially the bigs (90s bigs were great), more stretch bigs now but 90s had more paint dominating bigs (Shaq/Ewing/D.Rob/Hakeem/Eaton...)
The top talents of each eras overall are about equal |
There's little dispute at this point that evolving training methods, nutrition, and other advances in sports sciences have yielded more capable athletes ...
I know this is a sensitive discussion for many people, but I just don't think it's logical to dispute that the modern day NBA contingent wouldn't struggle to outplay their counterparts from the 1990s, just as the players from the 1990s wouldn't struggle to outplay their counterparts from the 1970s (and so on) ... |
absolutely, the training and the 'game' will always continue to evolve for the better. But to think that basketball athletes from 70s or 90s wouldn't do well today if train just like today's athlete... gotta disagree |
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the association Star Player
Joined: 03 Feb 2015 Posts: 1982
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Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2017 9:09 am Post subject: |
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governator wrote: | the association wrote: | governator wrote: | activeverb wrote: | ClemensBriels wrote: | Look no further than the top players in today's game vs the 90's for an indication of how much better the league is.
Bron
Harden
KD
Steph
Kyrie
PG
Kawhi
Giannis
Westbrook
M Gasol
Aldridge
Anthony Davis
Isaiah Thomas
CP3
Blake
(bleep) all over the top 15 players from any year in the 90's. The league is so much stronger top to bottom it's not even close |
I don't see how you go about showing those 15 guys are better than MJ, Hakeem, Karl Malone, Drexler, Pippen, etc. from the 1990s. Seems completely in the eye of the beholder. |
Yeah, need to watch the older games on youtube. Most of the stuff you see today has been done before... some might be more refined like Steph (the new Ray Allen/Reggie Miller), Blake (the new Shawn Kemp), CP3 (there's a bunch of good PGs in 90s), PG13 (Kobe, MJ), Kawhi (Pippen), especially the bigs (90s bigs were great), more stretch bigs now but 90s had more paint dominating bigs (Shaq/Ewing/D.Rob/Hakeem/Eaton...)
The top talents of each eras overall are about equal |
There's little dispute at this point that evolving training methods, nutrition, and other advances in sports sciences have yielded more capable athletes ...
I know this is a sensitive discussion for many people, but I just don't think it's logical to dispute that the modern day NBA contingent wouldn't struggle to outplay their counterparts from the 1990s, just as the players from the 1990s wouldn't struggle to outplay their counterparts from the 1970s (and so on) ... |
absolutely, the training and the 'game' will always continue to evolve for the better. But to think that basketball athletes from 70s or 90s wouldn't do well today if train just like today's athlete... gotta disagree |
Two things ... first, global access to the sport of basketball has expanded, which has significantly increased the overall talent level. The players in the 1980s were playing the best the U.S. had to offer on the court. Today, it's a global game.
And second, some of the advances we're discussing result in iterative and recursive effects down the line, too ...
At the extreme, it's like arguing that a neanderthal could, with the proper diet, training methods and coaching, be just as competitive as a modern day NBA player ... yeah, but how do you overcome the 5'2" height issue ... ?
Anyway, it's hypothetical, but I wouldn't hesitate to pick any composite All Star Team from the last ten years (best 12 players from the EC and the WC) to beat the 1992 Dream Team ... and I grew up watching Magic, Bird and Jordan, so that's saying a lot from my perspective ... |
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governator Franchise Player
Joined: 28 Jan 2006 Posts: 24996
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Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2017 9:20 am Post subject: |
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the association wrote: | governator wrote: | the association wrote: | governator wrote: | activeverb wrote: | ClemensBriels wrote: | Look no further than the top players in today's game vs the 90's for an indication of how much better the league is.
Bron
Harden
KD
Steph
Kyrie
PG
Kawhi
Giannis
Westbrook
M Gasol
Aldridge
Anthony Davis
Isaiah Thomas
CP3
Blake
(bleep) all over the top 15 players from any year in the 90's. The league is so much stronger top to bottom it's not even close |
I don't see how you go about showing those 15 guys are better than MJ, Hakeem, Karl Malone, Drexler, Pippen, etc. from the 1990s. Seems completely in the eye of the beholder. |
Yeah, need to watch the older games on youtube. Most of the stuff you see today has been done before... some might be more refined like Steph (the new Ray Allen/Reggie Miller), Blake (the new Shawn Kemp), CP3 (there's a bunch of good PGs in 90s), PG13 (Kobe, MJ), Kawhi (Pippen), especially the bigs (90s bigs were great), more stretch bigs now but 90s had more paint dominating bigs (Shaq/Ewing/D.Rob/Hakeem/Eaton...)
The top talents of each eras overall are about equal |
There's little dispute at this point that evolving training methods, nutrition, and other advances in sports sciences have yielded more capable athletes ...
I know this is a sensitive discussion for many people, but I just don't think it's logical to dispute that the modern day NBA contingent wouldn't struggle to outplay their counterparts from the 1990s, just as the players from the 1990s wouldn't struggle to outplay their counterparts from the 1970s (and so on) ... |
absolutely, the training and the 'game' will always continue to evolve for the better. But to think that basketball athletes from 70s or 90s wouldn't do well today if train just like today's athlete... gotta disagree |
Two things ... first, global access to the sport of basketball has expanded, which has significantly increased the overall talent level. The players in the 1980s were playing the best the U.S. had to offer on the court. Today, it's a global game.
And second, some of the advances we're discussing result in iterative and recursive effects down the line, too ...
At the extreme, it's like arguing that a neanderthal could, with the proper diet, training methods and coaching, be just as competitive as a modern day NBA player ... yeah, but how do you overcome the 5'2" height issue ... ?
Anyway, it's hypothetical, but I wouldn't hesitate to pick any composite All Star Team from the last ten years (best 12 players from the EC and the WC) to beat the 1992 Dream Team ... and I grew up watching Magic, Bird and Jordan, so that's saying a lot from my perspective ... |
all good, We just have diff prospective. But the neanderthal vs h.sapiens arguement is off (should be h. sapiens vs h. sapiens). Also the 5'2" heights argument is off too, players from 70s and 90s have similar measurements to current players |
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activeverb Retired Number
Joined: 17 Jun 2006 Posts: 37470
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Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2017 10:42 am Post subject: |
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the association wrote: | governator wrote: | activeverb wrote: | ClemensBriels wrote: | Look no further than the top players in today's game vs the 90's for an indication of how much better the league is.
Bron
Harden
KD
Steph
Kyrie
PG
Kawhi
Giannis
Westbrook
M Gasol
Aldridge
Anthony Davis
Isaiah Thomas
CP3
Blake
(bleep) all over the top 15 players from any year in the 90's. The league is so much stronger top to bottom it's not even close |
I don't see how you go about showing those 15 guys are better than MJ, Hakeem, Karl Malone, Drexler, Pippen, etc. from the 1990s. Seems completely in the eye of the beholder. |
Yeah, need to watch the older games on youtube. Most of the stuff you see today has been done before... some might be more refined like Steph (the new Ray Allen/Reggie Miller), Blake (the new Shawn Kemp), CP3 (there's a bunch of good PGs in 90s), PG13 (Kobe, MJ), Kawhi (Pippen), especially the bigs (90s bigs were great), more stretch bigs now but 90s had more paint dominating bigs (Shaq/Ewing/D.Rob/Hakeem/Eaton...)
The top talents of each eras overall are about equal |
There's little dispute at this point that evolving training methods, nutrition, and other advances in sports sciences have yielded more capable athletes ...
I know this is a sensitive discussion for many people, but I just don't think it's logical to dispute that the modern day NBA contingent wouldn't struggle to outplay their counterparts from the 1990s, just as the players from the 1990s wouldn't struggle to outplay their counterparts from the 1970s (and so on) ... |
Sure, nutrition, sports medicine and training continues to evolve. But it's a stretch for anyone to say that proves players from today are superior to players 20 years ago.
By that reasoning, the best player in any given era is always the GOAT because the present players are always better than the past players. |
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vanexelent Retired Number
Joined: 17 May 2005 Posts: 30081
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Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2017 11:03 am Post subject: |
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If the original Dream Team were all in their prime, they would wipe the floor with the best 10 players today. |
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governator Franchise Player
Joined: 28 Jan 2006 Posts: 24996
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Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2017 11:17 am Post subject: |
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vanexelent wrote: | If the original Dream Team were all in their prime, they would wipe the floor with the best 10 players today. |
just for fun, list the top 10 from Dream team and today, side by side |
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activeverb Retired Number
Joined: 17 Jun 2006 Posts: 37470
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Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2017 12:55 pm Post subject: |
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governator wrote: | vanexelent wrote: | If the original Dream Team were all in their prime, they would wipe the floor with the best 10 players today. |
just for fun, list the top 10 from Dream team and today, side by side |
David Robinson..........Demarcus Cousins
Charles Barkley......... Lebron James
Larry Bird................. Kevin Durant
Michael Jordan...........James Harden
Magic Johnson...........Stephen Curry
Patrick Ewing............DeAndre Jordan
Karl Malone.............. Anthony Davis
Scottie Pippen.......... Kawai Leonard
Clyde Drexler........... Russell Westbrook
John Stockton........... Chris Paul
Obviously, people can quibble about the modern choices; I think people will disagree with the modern centers, and maybe even whether the lineups should be broken down to include legitimate centers, but I think this is a decent concensus.
Also, we are assuming Bird is at his prime.
And one more thing: We could argue if there are better players from the 90s than some of the Dream Teamers, such as Hakeem, Shaq, and Gary Payton. The Dream Team couldn't have foreign players, for one thing. The last two members of the Dream Team were Mullen (who I thought overrated) and Christian Laettner, who was out on because they wanted a college player (and didn't select Shaq for reasons beyond understanding).
So my 90s Dream Team is
Hakeem
Malone
Bird
Jordan
Magic
Robinson
Barkley
Pippen
Drexler
Payton
Shaq
Stockton
And of course we get into issues of rules and style of play. If you are playing in the modern, running gunning style, you might make some different picks for the 90s. If you are playing in the 90s style, you might choose some different modern guys. |
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jonnybravo Retired Number
Joined: 21 Sep 2007 Posts: 30621
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Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2017 1:35 pm Post subject: |
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the association wrote: | governator wrote: | the association wrote: | governator wrote: | activeverb wrote: | ClemensBriels wrote: | Look no further than the top players in today's game vs the 90's for an indication of how much better the league is.
Bron
Harden
KD
Steph
Kyrie
PG
Kawhi
Giannis
Westbrook
M Gasol
Aldridge
Anthony Davis
Isaiah Thomas
CP3
Blake
(bleep) all over the top 15 players from any year in the 90's. The league is so much stronger top to bottom it's not even close |
I don't see how you go about showing those 15 guys are better than MJ, Hakeem, Karl Malone, Drexler, Pippen, etc. from the 1990s. Seems completely in the eye of the beholder. |
Yeah, need to watch the older games on youtube. Most of the stuff you see today has been done before... some might be more refined like Steph (the new Ray Allen/Reggie Miller), Blake (the new Shawn Kemp), CP3 (there's a bunch of good PGs in 90s), PG13 (Kobe, MJ), Kawhi (Pippen), especially the bigs (90s bigs were great), more stretch bigs now but 90s had more paint dominating bigs (Shaq/Ewing/D.Rob/Hakeem/Eaton...)
The top talents of each eras overall are about equal |
There's little dispute at this point that evolving training methods, nutrition, and other advances in sports sciences have yielded more capable athletes ...
I know this is a sensitive discussion for many people, but I just don't think it's logical to dispute that the modern day NBA contingent wouldn't struggle to outplay their counterparts from the 1990s, just as the players from the 1990s wouldn't struggle to outplay their counterparts from the 1970s (and so on) ... |
absolutely, the training and the 'game' will always continue to evolve for the better. But to think that basketball athletes from 70s or 90s wouldn't do well today if train just like today's athlete... gotta disagree |
Two things ... first, global access to the sport of basketball has expanded, which has significantly increased the overall talent level. The players in the 1980s were playing the best the U.S. had to offer on the court. Today, it's a global game.
And second, some of the advances we're discussing result in iterative and recursive effects down the line, too ...
At the extreme, it's like arguing that a neanderthal could, with the proper diet, training methods and coaching, be just as competitive as a modern day NBA player ... yeah, but how do you overcome the 5'2" height issue ... ?
Anyway, it's hypothetical, but I wouldn't hesitate to pick any composite All Star Team from the last ten years (best 12 players from the EC and the WC) to beat the 1992 Dream Team ... and I grew up watching Magic, Bird and Jordan, so that's saying a lot from my perspective ... |
This. Best of a lot will always be better than the best of little .
Talent pool has grown so massively over the last 15 years that to discount this HUGE factor is silly. I see it all the time.
You can see this play out in real time with the UFC. As far back as a decade ago, that might as well have been the leather football era. YOu inject exponential amounts of $$$ into a sport and hte talent pool will increase exponentially. It's such a basic concept across all fields (of academica/sports/careers etc) yet when discussing sports eras, it's laughably ignored. 20 years ago, the potential best MMA fighter may be working a desk job after his wrestling career. Point is, the greater the talent pool, the more likely the best in the world IS the best in the world and not sitting around doing something else. We'll never have the perfect system unless all 7 billion people try out for everything but the greater the monetary incentive, the greater the talent pool. Add globalization and the talent pool disparity is laughable. Some of the players of yesteryear wouldn't even have made the league.
In any event, I think globalization/$ has peaked to such an extent that the worldwide talent pool has reached crticial mass about a decade ago and it's platueaing. _________________ KOBE |
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activeverb Retired Number
Joined: 17 Jun 2006 Posts: 37470
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Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2017 2:41 pm Post subject: |
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jonnybravo wrote: | the association wrote: | governator wrote: | the association wrote: | governator wrote: | activeverb wrote: | ClemensBriels wrote: | Look no further than the top players in today's game vs the 90's for an indication of how much better the league is.
Bron
Harden
KD
Steph
Kyrie
PG
Kawhi
Giannis
Westbrook
M Gasol
Aldridge
Anthony Davis
Isaiah Thomas
CP3
Blake
(bleep) all over the top 15 players from any year in the 90's. The league is so much stronger top to bottom it's not even close |
I don't see how you go about showing those 15 guys are better than MJ, Hakeem, Karl Malone, Drexler, Pippen, etc. from the 1990s. Seems completely in the eye of the beholder. |
Yeah, need to watch the older games on youtube. Most of the stuff you see today has been done before... some might be more refined like Steph (the new Ray Allen/Reggie Miller), Blake (the new Shawn Kemp), CP3 (there's a bunch of good PGs in 90s), PG13 (Kobe, MJ), Kawhi (Pippen), especially the bigs (90s bigs were great), more stretch bigs now but 90s had more paint dominating bigs (Shaq/Ewing/D.Rob/Hakeem/Eaton...)
The top talents of each eras overall are about equal |
There's little dispute at this point that evolving training methods, nutrition, and other advances in sports sciences have yielded more capable athletes ...
I know this is a sensitive discussion for many people, but I just don't think it's logical to dispute that the modern day NBA contingent wouldn't struggle to outplay their counterparts from the 1990s, just as the players from the 1990s wouldn't struggle to outplay their counterparts from the 1970s (and so on) ... |
absolutely, the training and the 'game' will always continue to evolve for the better. But to think that basketball athletes from 70s or 90s wouldn't do well today if train just like today's athlete... gotta disagree |
Two things ... first, global access to the sport of basketball has expanded, which has significantly increased the overall talent level. The players in the 1980s were playing the best the U.S. had to offer on the court. Today, it's a global game.
And second, some of the advances we're discussing result in iterative and recursive effects down the line, too ...
At the extreme, it's like arguing that a neanderthal could, with the proper diet, training methods and coaching, be just as competitive as a modern day NBA player ... yeah, but how do you overcome the 5'2" height issue ... ?
Anyway, it's hypothetical, but I wouldn't hesitate to pick any composite All Star Team from the last ten years (best 12 players from the EC and the WC) to beat the 1992 Dream Team ... and I grew up watching Magic, Bird and Jordan, so that's saying a lot from my perspective ... |
This. Best of a lot will always be better than the best of little .
Talent pool has grown so massively over the last 15 years that to discount this HUGE factor is silly. I see it all the time.
You can see this play out in real time with the UFC. As far back as a decade ago, that might as well have been the leather football era. YOu inject exponential amounts of $$$ into a sport and hte talent pool will increase exponentially. It's such a basic concept across all fields (of academica/sports/careers etc) yet when discussing sports eras, it's laughably ignored. 20 years ago, the potential best MMA fighter may be working a desk job after his wrestling career. Point is, the greater the talent pool, the more likely the best in the world IS the best in the world and not sitting around doing something else. We'll never have the perfect system unless all 7 billion people try out for everything but the greater the monetary incentive, the greater the talent pool. Add globalization and the talent pool disparity is laughable. Some of the players of yesteryear wouldn't even have made the league.
In any event, I think globalization/$ has peaked to such an extent that the worldwide talent pool has reached crticial mass about a decade ago and it's platueaing. |
Not necessarily. Sure, there is easier access to foreign players. At the same time, the number of teams has increased from 26 to 30. We can argue if the increase in foreign players simply helped keep the average talent level as the number of spots in the league increased.
And there are other key changes, like players coming out school earlier, which arguable equips them with less skills and experience that may affect them throughout their career.
And also, the NBA pool is a few hundred people. It’s not a given that if you draw such a small number from a larger pool you’ll have a proportional increase in talent. In other words, drawing 300 people from a pool of 6 billion rather than 2 billion doesn’t inherently mean the final group will be three times better. You might end up with a higher grade of people in the middle of the final group, but a lesser grade at the top of the group. If you care Bill James talked about the mathematics of this in one of his books.
There are a lot of different parts to the equation, and I’ve never seen anyone make a good stab at sorting them all out in a pervasive way. |
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ClemensBriels Sixth Man
Joined: 14 Jan 2017 Posts: 80
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Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2017 6:25 pm Post subject: |
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vanexelent wrote: | If the original Dream Team were all in their prime, they would wipe the floor with the best 10 players today. |
Lmao. Their primes didn't line up, first of all. But okay fine, I'll play ball- the prime versions of
Steph (or CP3, although it wouldn't be a great fit, he could probably adapt and might make for a better team than Steph would)
Harden
KD
LeBron
AD? Embiid? Towns? Porzingis?
(The 5s are all too young, but if we use your method, one of them is sure to end up being a transcendant talent when they do hit their prime. AD is already a freak)
That team would wreck (bleep). Nobody is (bleep) wiping the floor with them.
Last edited by ClemensBriels on Thu Feb 02, 2017 6:30 pm; edited 3 times in total |
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ClemensBriels Sixth Man
Joined: 14 Jan 2017 Posts: 80
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Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2017 6:27 pm Post subject: |
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Really though
KD
Bron
Harden
Right now, they are probably the best top 3 players at any given time, ever. They are all just so, so insanely good offensively |
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activeverb Retired Number
Joined: 17 Jun 2006 Posts: 37470
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Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2017 8:55 pm Post subject: |
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ClemensBriels wrote: | Really though
KD
Bron
Harden
Right now, they are probably the best top 3 players at any given time, ever. They are all just so, so insanely good offensively |
I don't know about that. Are they better than:
Shaq-Kobe-Duncan
MJ-Hakeem-Barkley
Kareem-Magic-Bird
I could go on and on. Lots of great players in NBA history. I'm not sure how you make a case for one trio above the other beyond "eye of the beholder." |
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BigGameHames Star Player
Joined: 24 May 2015 Posts: 7982
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Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2017 9:05 pm Post subject: |
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ClemensBriels wrote: | Really though
KD
Bron
Harden
Right now, they are probably the best top 3 players at any given time, ever. They are all just so, so insanely good offensively |
Westbrook>Harden
Curry>Harden
Harden is extremely gifted offensively but his unwillingness to play any kind of D stops me from putting him in the top 5 despite his phenomenal stats and offensive game. |
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ClemensBriels Sixth Man
Joined: 14 Jan 2017 Posts: 80
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Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2017 9:26 pm Post subject: |
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BigGameHames wrote: | ClemensBriels wrote: | Really though
KD
Bron
Harden
Right now, they are probably the best top 3 players at any given time, ever. They are all just so, so insanely good offensively |
Westbrook>Harden
Curry>Harden
Harden is extremely gifted offensively but his unwillingness to play any kind of D stops me from putting him in the top 5 despite his phenomenal stats and offensive game. |
Nah he plays D. He just takes a few plays off a night on that end and losers with no lives make youtube videos about it. Like other superstars are playing lockdown d the entire night or something lol.
Westbrook's D is arguably worse. A lot of the time he doesn't even contest shots, he just goes for the rebound. And jacks up 10 3s a game at an awful clip. I would never take Westbrook in a million years over Harden. I mean I'm a huge fan of Harden's game and can't stand Westbrook's so I'm a little biased but no way in hell I could ever see it. Westbrook also gambles too often defensively. He's just overall reckless and selfish... I am not at all a fan
Steph is hard for me to judge. I think he lacks athleticism but makes up for it at least somewhat with his insane shooting ability. Also can't get over how awful he was in the finals last year- hobbled or not. So many inexplicably bad turnovers. Gimme Harden over him still |
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SuperboyReformed Star Player
Joined: 07 Oct 2012 Posts: 4083
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Posted: Thu Feb 02, 2017 10:59 pm Post subject: |
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ClemensBriels wrote: | BigGameHames wrote: | ClemensBriels wrote: | Really though
KD
Bron
Harden
Right now, they are probably the best top 3 players at any given time, ever. They are all just so, so insanely good offensively |
Westbrook>Harden
Curry>Harden
Harden is extremely gifted offensively but his unwillingness to play any kind of D stops me from putting him in the top 5 despite his phenomenal stats and offensive game. |
Nah he plays D. He just takes a few plays off a night on that end and losers with no lives make youtube videos about it. Like other superstars are playing lockdown d the entire night or something lol.
Westbrook's D is arguably worse. A lot of the time he doesn't even contest shots, he just goes for the rebound. And jacks up 10 3s a game at an awful clip. I would never take Westbrook in a million years over Harden. I mean I'm a huge fan of Harden's game and can't stand Westbrook's so I'm a little biased but no way in hell I could ever see it. Westbrook also gambles too often defensively. He's just overall reckless and selfish... I am not at all a fan
Steph is hard for me to judge. I think he lacks athleticism but makes up for it at least somewhat with his insane shooting ability. Also can't get over how awful he was in the finals last year- hobbled or not. So many inexplicably bad turnovers. Gimme Harden over him still |
Harden has blown games worse than Curry at times. Harden is more talented than Curry, but he is such a weird player with all his dumb gimmicks. I get lebron and duncan doing gimmicks, but a guy like harden doesnt have to...yet he still does.
i forgot which game it was, but he was having a 4th quarter that i was saying was kobe level stuff, and i dont say that about anyone other than tmac mj etc maybe. He just blows it at the end, ruined all of it. All because of his dumb gimmicks.
Curry is not in Harden's position. Curry, i dunno, hes just a shooter. harden is doing everything. harden is doing exactly what lebron is doing...trying to get as many columns and stats filled up. curry is doing one simple thing, try to make as many threes as possible. that is his only job, i think. the guy has it easier than all these stars in a sense...harden, lebron, even irving has to do more than curry. |
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ClemensBriels Sixth Man
Joined: 14 Jan 2017 Posts: 80
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Posted: Fri Feb 03, 2017 12:08 am Post subject: |
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SuperboyReformed wrote: | ClemensBriels wrote: | BigGameHames wrote: | ClemensBriels wrote: | Really though
KD
Bron
Harden
Right now, they are probably the best top 3 players at any given time, ever. They are all just so, so insanely good offensively |
Westbrook>Harden
Curry>Harden
Harden is extremely gifted offensively but his unwillingness to play any kind of D stops me from putting him in the top 5 despite his phenomenal stats and offensive game. |
Nah he plays D. He just takes a few plays off a night on that end and losers with no lives make youtube videos about it. Like other superstars are playing lockdown d the entire night or something lol.
Westbrook's D is arguably worse. A lot of the time he doesn't even contest shots, he just goes for the rebound. And jacks up 10 3s a game at an awful clip. I would never take Westbrook in a million years over Harden. I mean I'm a huge fan of Harden's game and can't stand Westbrook's so I'm a little biased but no way in hell I could ever see it. Westbrook also gambles too often defensively. He's just overall reckless and selfish... I am not at all a fan
Steph is hard for me to judge. I think he lacks athleticism but makes up for it at least somewhat with his insane shooting ability. Also can't get over how awful he was in the finals last year- hobbled or not. So many inexplicably bad turnovers. Gimme Harden over him still |
Harden has blown games worse than Curry at times. Harden is more talented than Curry, but he is such a weird player with all his dumb gimmicks. I get lebron and duncan doing gimmicks, but a guy like harden doesnt have to...yet he still does.
i forgot which game it was, but he was having a 4th quarter that i was saying was kobe level stuff, and i dont say that about anyone other than tmac mj etc maybe. He just blows it at the end, ruined all of it. All because of his dumb gimmicks.
Curry is not in Harden's position. Curry, i dunno, hes just a shooter. harden is doing everything. harden is doing exactly what lebron is doing...trying to get as many columns and stats filled up. curry is doing one simple thing, try to make as many threes as possible. that is his only job, i think. the guy has it easier than all these stars in a sense...harden, lebron, even irving has to do more than curry. |
Maybe Kobe should have employed some dumb gimmicks because the 12-13 Lakers were something like 17-25 when Kobe took 20+ shots. Kobe blew so many games that year... he pissed me off to no end with his hero ball. |
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