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angrypuppy
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 Posted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 7:12 am Post subject: |
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| ChickenStu wrote: | Michael Lombardi tweeted that the NFL apparently has pictures, I assume of the women's injuries. Now, that doesn't prove that they got those injuries because Elliott assaulted them, but...somebody else said it, where there's smoke, there's fire.
And the Kobe thing was definitely different. It was one accuser/one incident, and the woman had "highly questionable" credibility, let's just say. |
The league has a sordid history of leaking evidence that it really doesn't have, all as a means of justifying the punishment. Zeke might be guilty, he's certainly a knucklehead, but evidence doesn't really matter. What does matter are the other owners, and if a clear majority of them want Dallas punished, then Goodell will appease them. |
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ringfinger
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| Posted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 10:36 am Post subject: |
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| ChickenStu wrote: | Michael Lombardi tweeted that the NFL apparently has pictures, I assume of the women's injuries. Now, that doesn't prove that they got those injuries because Elliott assaulted them, but...somebody else said it, where there's smoke, there's fire.
And the Kobe thing was definitely different. It was one accuser/one incident, and the woman had "highly questionable" credibility, let's just say. |
And that's why generally, when it comes to the accusation of a criminal offense, I prefer to let justice take its course and based on that, the league can decide how to levy punishment.
I do see the Kobe thing being different. There was sufficient evidence to charge Kobe. There wasn't sufficient evidence to charge Elliot. But as you can see, even in a scenario where you have sufficient evidence to file an official criminal charge even THAT level of scrutiny doesn't necessitate that a crime had actually been committed as we see with Kobe.
Here's kind of an interesting question. If a player is found or pleads guilty in a court of law, should his punishment be greater, less, or the same than if he were viewed as innocent in the eyes of the law? In other words, should it matter at all if you're actually criminally guilty? |
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Lakers2015
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| Posted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 11:11 am Post subject: |
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Zeke suspension is a joke.
Cowboys can survive though.
They have an incredible OL, two 1K rushers on their roster, and an excellent young QB.
Dallas just needs to hover around .500 until Zeke returns and I think they can still win the division.
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Lucky_Shot
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| Posted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 11:29 am Post subject: |
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| Lakers2015 wrote: | Zeke suspension is a joke.
Cowboys can survive though.
They have an incredible OL, two 1K rushers on their roster, and an excellent young QB.
Dallas just needs to hover around .500 until Zeke returns and I think they can still win the division. |
I'm not a fan of the Cowboys so it made me so happy to hear Zeke got 6 games. Hahaha I hope he has terrible new season. |
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Lakers2015
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| Posted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 2:10 pm Post subject: |
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| Lucky_Shot wrote: | | Lakers2015 wrote: | Zeke suspension is a joke.
Cowboys can survive though.
They have an incredible OL, two 1K rushers on their roster, and an excellent young QB.
Dallas just needs to hover around .500 until Zeke returns and I think they can still win the division. |
I'm not a fan of the Cowboys so it made me so happy to hear Zeke got 6 games. Hahaha I hope he has terrible new season. |
You don't have to be a fan of the Cowboys to realize he got screwed.
Dude wasn't even charged with the crime and got suspended damn near half a season for it.
Whatever though. Cowboys still have plenty of talent on that offense.
Definitely puts more pressure on Dak, but nothing is too big for him. Morris/McFadden is not a bad combination at RB. It's not Zeke, but with that OL they should still have a reliable run game and be able to still continue to have a balanced offense.
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jodeke
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| Posted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 2:51 pm Post subject: |
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| ringfinger wrote: | | jodeke wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | | jodeke wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | Just to clarify on the "pulling down the blouse" incident... it was NOT factored in in the investigation
| Quote: | | In March of this year, Elliott was seen in videos and photos pulling down a woman's shirt and exposing her breast on the roof of a Dallas bar during a St. Patrick's Day parade. Last month, Elliott was involved in an incident at another Dallas bar that initially sparked an assault investigation before police suspended their probe. That incident, however, was never part of the NFL's completed probe, a source with knowledge of the investigation told Rapoport and Pelissero. |
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/0ap3000000828558/article/cowboys-ezekiel-elliott-suspended-six-games-by-nfl |
IMO this is unfair.
| Quote: | The policy states: "In cases where a player is not charged with a crime, or is charged but not convicted, he may still be found to have violated the policy if the credible evidence establishes that he engaged in conduct prohibited by this personal conduct policy."
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I tend to agree. But I see the other side too ... just curious, how do you feel about Sterling being ousted and banned from the NBA? He didn't DO anything illegal, he was just recorded, in a private conversation, saying some very unpopular things.
Do you agree with that ruling? If you do, how is it different than what the NFL is doing here? |
Yes I agree with the decision. Are you actually comparing domestic abuse to racism? |
No. I'm comparing two disturbing actions which were not deemed to be crimes.
So while I (and you) hold the position that it is unfair to punish a player when he was not charges or convicted of a crime... I can think of several examples in which no charges were filed yet punishment seemed... warranted. |
That's what makes the NFL look like it's a subjective ruling body. They make themselves judge and jury. Zeke is accused of a crime, Sterling is accused of being a racist, which is not a crime.
I don't know how Elliott's suspension is to be served. If he's appealing can't he play until the appeal is heard? If the appeal drags out the entire season, is he allowed to play?
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Last edited by jodeke on Sat Aug 12, 2017 3:12 pm; edited 1 time in total |
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Lucky_Shot
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| Posted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 3:01 pm Post subject: |
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| Lakers2015 wrote: | | Lucky_Shot wrote: | | Lakers2015 wrote: | Zeke suspension is a joke.
Cowboys can survive though.
They have an incredible OL, two 1K rushers on their roster, and an excellent young QB.
Dallas just needs to hover around .500 until Zeke returns and I think they can still win the division. |
I'm not a fan of the Cowboys so it made me so happy to hear Zeke got 6 games. Hahaha I hope he has terrible new season. |
You don't have to be a fan of the Cowboys to realize he got screwed.
Dude wasn't even charged with the crime and got suspended damn near half a season for it.
Whatever though. Cowboys still have plenty of talent on that offense.
Definitely puts more pressure on Dak, but nothing is too big for him. Morris/McFadden is not a bad combination at RB. It's not Zeke, but with that OL they should still have a reliable run game and be able to still continue to have a balanced offense. |
Yeah the Cowboys are no joke but I think they will get crushed a few times in the playoffs before they break through with Dak. |
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rwongega
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AY2043
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| Posted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 3:42 pm Post subject: |
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| Lakers2015 wrote: | | Lucky_Shot wrote: | | Lakers2015 wrote: | Zeke suspension is a joke.
Cowboys can survive though.
They have an incredible OL, two 1K rushers on their roster, and an excellent young QB.
Dallas just needs to hover around .500 until Zeke returns and I think they can still win the division. |
I'm not a fan of the Cowboys so it made me so happy to hear Zeke got 6 games. Hahaha I hope he has terrible new season. |
You don't have to be a fan of the Cowboys to realize he got screwed.
Dude wasn't even charged with the crime and got suspended damn near half a season for it.
Whatever though. Cowboys still have plenty of talent on that offense.
Definitely puts more pressure on Dak, but nothing is too big for him. Morris/McFadden is not a bad combination at RB. It's not Zeke, but with that OL they should still have a reliable run game and be able to still continue to have a balanced offense. |
And with all of that said, they'll still lose in the Divisional round like they do every year  |
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AY2043
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| Posted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 3:45 pm Post subject: |
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| rwongega wrote: | | Tampa Bay Sucs finalize one of their most idiotic draft moves by cutting former 2nd round pick Roberto Aguayo. Several of the 2nd/3rd rounders drafted after Aguayo will be starters this coming season, including one that was named to the All-Rookie team. |
There is no circumstance under which trading up to draft a kicker in the second round would ever be even remotely defensible. The fact that he turned out to be completely awful just makes it hilariously bad |
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ringfinger
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| Posted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 7:38 pm Post subject: |
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| jodeke wrote: | That's what makes the NFL look like it's a subjective ruling body. They make themselves judge and jury. Zeke is accused of a crime, Sterling is accused of being a racist, which is not a crime.
I don't know how Elliott's suspension is to be served. If he's appealing can't he play until the appeal is heard? If the appeal drags out the entire season, is he allowed to play? |
As best as I understand it, Elliot has 3 business days to appeal. If he does, NFL will hold a hearing within 10 days. So still time to get that dealt with before the season starts.
The NFL is a subjective ruling body though. How else do you want them to do it? If a sports league can only punish someone for being found guilty of a crime, then how can you advocate for the Sterling ban? That ban was applied by a subjective ruling body, the NBA.
At the same time, I kind of agree with you. Punish only those guilty of a crime. But I have to realize that would mean I have to oppose the Sterling ban too. (In theory, I do oppose it as sickening as it feels). |
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rwongega
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| Posted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 8:00 pm Post subject: |
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| AY2043 wrote: | | rwongega wrote: | | Tampa Bay Sucs finalize one of their most idiotic draft moves by cutting former 2nd round pick Roberto Aguayo. Several of the 2nd/3rd rounders drafted after Aguayo will be starters this coming season, including one that was named to the All-Rookie team. |
There is no circumstance under which trading up to draft a kicker in the second round would ever be even remotely defensible. The fact that he turned out to be completely awful just makes it hilariously bad |
Yep. Unless this guy can hit 100% of FG's from like 80-90 yards away, there's no justification. Looking at his college stats, there's really nothing special about him other than he's slightly more accurate than other kickers but not by much.
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adkindo
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| Posted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 8:40 pm Post subject: |
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| rwongega wrote: | | AY2043 wrote: | | rwongega wrote: | | Tampa Bay Sucs finalize one of their most idiotic draft moves by cutting former 2nd round pick Roberto Aguayo. Several of the 2nd/3rd rounders drafted after Aguayo will be starters this coming season, including one that was named to the All-Rookie team. |
There is no circumstance under which trading up to draft a kicker in the second round would ever be even remotely defensible. The fact that he turned out to be completely awful just makes it hilariously bad |
Yep. Unless this guy can hit 100% of FG's from like 80-90 yards away, there's no justification. Looking at his college stats, there's really nothing special about him other than he's slightly more accurate than other kickers but not by much. |
nothing special? He is most accurate kicker in NCAA history. |
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rwongega
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| Posted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 9:04 pm Post subject: |
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| adkindo wrote: | | rwongega wrote: | | AY2043 wrote: | | rwongega wrote: | | Tampa Bay Sucs finalize one of their most idiotic draft moves by cutting former 2nd round pick Roberto Aguayo. Several of the 2nd/3rd rounders drafted after Aguayo will be starters this coming season, including one that was named to the All-Rookie team. |
There is no circumstance under which trading up to draft a kicker in the second round would ever be even remotely defensible. The fact that he turned out to be completely awful just makes it hilariously bad |
Yep. Unless this guy can hit 100% of FG's from like 80-90 yards away, there's no justification. Looking at his college stats, there's really nothing special about him other than he's slightly more accurate than other kickers but not by much. |
nothing special? He is most accurate kicker in NCAA history. |
Rarely kicks beyond 50 yards. Kicks a lot within the 1-39 yard range which accounts for the overinflated accuracy. And he's not the most accurate kicker in NCAA history. ACC yes, but not in NCAA. Not to mention his FG% dropped each successive year.
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adkindo
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| Posted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 9:17 pm Post subject: |
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| rwongega wrote: | | adkindo wrote: | | rwongega wrote: | | AY2043 wrote: | | rwongega wrote: | | Tampa Bay Sucs finalize one of their most idiotic draft moves by cutting former 2nd round pick Roberto Aguayo. Several of the 2nd/3rd rounders drafted after Aguayo will be starters this coming season, including one that was named to the All-Rookie team. |
There is no circumstance under which trading up to draft a kicker in the second round would ever be even remotely defensible. The fact that he turned out to be completely awful just makes it hilariously bad |
Yep. Unless this guy can hit 100% of FG's from like 80-90 yards away, there's no justification. Looking at his college stats, there's really nothing special about him other than he's slightly more accurate than other kickers but not by much. |
nothing special? He is most accurate kicker in NCAA history. |
Rarely kicks beyond 50 yards. Kicks a lot within the 1-39 yard range which accounts for the overinflated accuracy. And he's not the most accurate kicker in NCAA history. ACC yes, but not in NCAA. Not to mention his FG% dropped each successive year. |
| Quote: | | Combining extra points and field goals, Aguayo is the most accurate kicker in college football history, hitting on 267 of 276 tries. |
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2016/01/06/a-kicker-yes-a-kicker-leaves-school-early-for-the-draft/ |
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jodeke
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| Posted: Sat Aug 12, 2017 10:18 pm Post subject: |
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| ringfinger wrote: | | jodeke wrote: | That's what makes the NFL look like it's a subjective ruling body. They make themselves judge and jury. Zeke is accused of a crime, Sterling is accused of being a racist, which is not a crime.
I don't know how Elliott's suspension is to be served. If he's appealing can't he play until the appeal is heard? If the appeal drags out the entire season, is he allowed to play? |
As best as I understand it, Elliot has 3 business days to appeal. If he does, NFL will hold a hearing within 10 days. So still time to get that dealt with before the season starts.
The NFL is a subjective ruling body though. How else do you want them to do it? If a sports league can only punish someone for being found guilty of a crime, then how can you advocate for the Sterling ban? That ban was applied by a subjective ruling body, the NBA.
At the same time, I kind of agree with you. Punish only those guilty of a crime. But I have to realize that would mean I have to oppose the Sterling ban too. (In theory, I do oppose it as sickening as it feels). |
The Sterling ban was about racism not crime. 75 percent of the players in the NBA are Black. What would the brand look like if it had a owner who is perceived to be a racist? Wouldn't that light be shown on other owners if they allowed one of their own to be cast as such?
Sterling's crime was social by implication.
As I said, they are a subjective ruling body. They write their rules. When you become a owner or player you're subject to the body rules. Those rules protect the brand.
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lakersken80
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rwongega
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| Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 12:09 am Post subject: |
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| adkindo wrote: | | rwongega wrote: | | adkindo wrote: | | rwongega wrote: | | AY2043 wrote: | | rwongega wrote: | | Tampa Bay Sucs finalize one of their most idiotic draft moves by cutting former 2nd round pick Roberto Aguayo. Several of the 2nd/3rd rounders drafted after Aguayo will be starters this coming season, including one that was named to the All-Rookie team. |
There is no circumstance under which trading up to draft a kicker in the second round would ever be even remotely defensible. The fact that he turned out to be completely awful just makes it hilariously bad |
Yep. Unless this guy can hit 100% of FG's from like 80-90 yards away, there's no justification. Looking at his college stats, there's really nothing special about him other than he's slightly more accurate than other kickers but not by much. |
nothing special? He is most accurate kicker in NCAA history. |
Rarely kicks beyond 50 yards. Kicks a lot within the 1-39 yard range which accounts for the overinflated accuracy. And he's not the most accurate kicker in NCAA history. ACC yes, but not in NCAA. Not to mention his FG% dropped each successive year. |
| Quote: | | Combining extra points and field goals, Aguayo is the most accurate kicker in college football history, hitting on 267 of 276 tries. |
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2016/01/06/a-kicker-yes-a-kicker-leaves-school-early-for-the-draft/ |
https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/leaders/fg-pct-player-career.html
Extra points shouldn't be considered under accuracy seeing as they're a gimmie at the college level. (Case in point: Aguayo is 32 of 34 at the pro level, not counting his misses in the preseason, which were mostly uncontested)
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AY2043
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| Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 12:14 am Post subject: |
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I won't lie, it would be kind of cool to see a game there, despite my misgivings about forking over my money to Spanos. Doubt any NFL team will ever play in a stadium that only holds 30k after the chargers move out of there.
Tickets prices and parking are both insane tho |
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lakersken80
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| Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 12:25 am Post subject: |
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From what I read the Chargers weren't able to get the stadium to expand to 30k seats after getting feedback from AEG. So they ended up making a lot of changes to make the fan experience better. They added another video board and added more luxury boxes there.
And yes the ticket prices are insane, especially for the Raiders vs Chargers game.....I bet that stadium will be filled with silver and black when the Chargers have that "home" game....  |
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lakersken80
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adkindo
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| Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 1:03 pm Post subject: |
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| rwongega wrote: | | adkindo wrote: | | rwongega wrote: | | adkindo wrote: | | rwongega wrote: | | AY2043 wrote: | | rwongega wrote: | | Tampa Bay Sucs finalize one of their most idiotic draft moves by cutting former 2nd round pick Roberto Aguayo. Several of the 2nd/3rd rounders drafted after Aguayo will be starters this coming season, including one that was named to the All-Rookie team. |
There is no circumstance under which trading up to draft a kicker in the second round would ever be even remotely defensible. The fact that he turned out to be completely awful just makes it hilariously bad |
Yep. Unless this guy can hit 100% of FG's from like 80-90 yards away, there's no justification. Looking at his college stats, there's really nothing special about him other than he's slightly more accurate than other kickers but not by much. |
nothing special? He is most accurate kicker in NCAA history. |
Rarely kicks beyond 50 yards. Kicks a lot within the 1-39 yard range which accounts for the overinflated accuracy. And he's not the most accurate kicker in NCAA history. ACC yes, but not in NCAA. Not to mention his FG% dropped each successive year. |
| Quote: | | Combining extra points and field goals, Aguayo is the most accurate kicker in college football history, hitting on 267 of 276 tries. |
http://profootballtalk.nbcsports.com/2016/01/06/a-kicker-yes-a-kicker-leaves-school-early-for-the-draft/ |
https://www.sports-reference.com/cfb/leaders/fg-pct-player-career.html
Extra points shouldn't be considered under accuracy seeing as they're a gimmie at the college level. (Case in point: Aguayo is 32 of 34 at the pro level, not counting his misses in the preseason, which were mostly uncontested) |
you have an argument, but that is simply not how accuracy for kickers has been determined.....I did not create the formula, which is why you can find dozens of references claiming he is the most accurate kicker in NCAA history. |
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adkindo
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| Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 1:04 pm Post subject: |
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| lakersken80 wrote: | https://pbs.twimg.com/media/DHFCX-DXkAEKnAV.jpg
Not a bad seat in the house to watch an NFL game. |
If I was a Charger fan, i would love the opportunity to watch them in that stadium. |
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 1:35 pm Post subject: |
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| AY2043 wrote: | | rwongega wrote: | | Tampa Bay Sucs finalize one of their most idiotic draft moves by cutting former 2nd round pick Roberto Aguayo. Several of the 2nd/3rd rounders drafted after Aguayo will be starters this coming season, including one that was named to the All-Rookie team. |
There is no circumstance under which trading up to draft a kicker in the second round would ever be even remotely defensible. The fact that he turned out to be completely awful just makes it hilariously bad |
Anyone remember UCLA kicker John Lee? Drafted 32nd by the Cardinals and played one season.
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ChickenStu
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| Posted: Sun Aug 13, 2017 3:01 pm Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | AY2043 wrote: | | rwongega wrote: | | Tampa Bay Sucs finalize one of their most idiotic draft moves by cutting former 2nd round pick Roberto Aguayo. Several of the 2nd/3rd rounders drafted after Aguayo will be starters this coming season, including one that was named to the All-Rookie team. |
There is no circumstance under which trading up to draft a kicker in the second round would ever be even remotely defensible. The fact that he turned out to be completely awful just makes it hilariously bad |
Anyone remember UCLA kicker John Lee? Drafted 32nd by the Cardinals and played one season. |
I was VERY young, but yes, I remember him. Back then, of course, college kickers could kick field goals off a small tee. Apparently Lee couldn't adjust to not being allowed to do that in the pros.
As for Aguayo, it's absolutely correct that it is idiotic to draft a kicker in the 2nd round, let alone when you have to trade up to do it LOL. There are so many good kickers now that it's just never going to be worth it. It wasn't even worth it when Janikowski got taken early, but at least he's had a long and productive career. |
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