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ChickenStu
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PostPosted: Mon Nov 06, 2017 11:42 pm    Post subject:

ringfinger wrote:
ChickenStu wrote:
^
I am not saying that Kaepernick is an All-Pro QB. He's not that. However, if the true objective is to try to win football games, no one on Earth can say with a straight face that Tom Savage, or Matt McGloin, or TJ Yates gives you a better chance to win football games than Kaepernick would. Kaepernick did not play badly last season. Yes, the 49ers were horrible, but I think he had 16 TD's and 4 INT's and he can obviously move in the pocket, extend plays, and just flat-out run for first downs. (A quick check shows that he did, indeed, have a 16/4 split, with a 90.7 QB rating and even a 55.2 QBR, with a 50 QBR indicating "average" QB performance.) Savage is a statue back there, and he was 8 for 26 in the first 3 quarters...against the Colts! I mean, Kaepernick plays similarly to Watson for heaven's sake, though I'm not going to argue that he would play as well as Watson was playing, of course.

Still, if this were strictly about trying to win, there is no question as to what the best option would be. But more is at play, and I understand that, and everyone else should, as well.


The other thing with Kaepernick, besides major drama, is he's just kind of old. He's 30 yrs old already. Hasn't really played in a while and a major headache.

If I'm a team, I'm easily passing on Kaep to play some of my younger options.

Kaep has talents but leadership is not one of them and that might be the more important trait for a signal caller.


Again, I'll just say that I'm not arguing that he's going to be a star QB anymore. But the thing is...he really wasn't bad last season. Do you realize how many genuinely awful QB's are not just in the league, but starting for teams right now? Tom Savage is laughably awful. Joe Flacco has been on a downward spiral for quite some time now, cratering to a 5.3 YPA and 72.7 Rating this season. Blake Bortles is awful. Trevor Siemian/Brock Osweiler are a joke. Jay Cutler is bad, though I at least understand the idea of Gase wanting a guy he has worked with in the past. Arizona is 4-4 and has Drew Stanton starting at QB. Brett Hundley looks like a horrible passer on anything downfield. These are all current starting QB's on teams that could be legit playoff contenders with mere competency at the QB position. (I didn't mention CJ Beathard, DeShone Kizer, and Mitchell Trubisky because I recognize that those are basically tanking/developing teams that are taking a look at young QB's, and SF has Garoppolo waiting in the wings anyway.) If the argument was that Kaep wasn't worth the baggage of being a backup QB, I can somewhat get that, but there have been much-worse QB's that have led teams to the playoffs before.

Let's just be honest here: he's clearly good enough to be starting in the league for many teams. The Texans could legit win the AFC South with Kaep starting. And Denver's defense is still among the elite in the league, but their season has been torpedoed by the QB play. They won a Super Bowl two years ago with subpar QB play, and Kaep played far above what Manning/Osweiler gave the Broncos two seasons ago. Again, I recognize the off-the-field stuff that's going into this, but let's not say this is about him being a bad QB. There are demonstrably far worse QB's, and starting QB's at that. This is about politics.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 11:31 am    Post subject:

The (bleep) strikes again.

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For instance, Miko Grimes, the wife of Buccaneers cornerback Brent Grimes, can appear on a radio show and claim that the Oakland Raiders offensive line intentionally wanted to let Derek Carr suffer an injury and it will be something people have to address.
Appearing on something called Revolt TV, Grimes said that because Carr was not down with how the Raiders offensive line wanted to protest, the line allowed Carr to suffer a back injury.
"The reason Derek Carr got injured is because the Raiders offensive line allowed him to get injured. Because he was against them protesting," Grimes explained. "And they had a fight in that Monday night game [in Washington]. They were fighting in the locker room and that's the only all-black offensive line in the NFL is the Raiders."


https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/lets-debunk-miko-grimes-claim-that-raiders-o-line-let-derek-carr-get-hurt/
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 3:41 pm    Post subject:

ChickenStu wrote:
Let's just be honest here: he's clearly good enough to be starting in the league for many teams. The Texans could legit win the AFC South with Kaep starting.


I doubt it. The Watt and Mercilus injuries wrecked us. We were a 3-4 team with Watson putting up Hall of Fame numbers. I expect that weíll end up about 4-12 or 5-11 with Savage. The remaining defense is good enough that we could win a game or two. Kaepernick might get us to 6-10 or 7-9. Thatís not worth it.

I do agree that Kaepernick is good enough to play in the league, of course.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 3:49 pm    Post subject:

rwongega wrote:
The (bleep) strikes again.

Quote:
For instance, Miko Grimes, the wife of Buccaneers cornerback Brent Grimes, can appear on a radio show and claim that the Oakland Raiders offensive line intentionally wanted to let Derek Carr suffer an injury and it will be something people have to address.
Appearing on something called Revolt TV, Grimes said that because Carr was not down with how the Raiders offensive line wanted to protest, the line allowed Carr to suffer a back injury.
"The reason Derek Carr got injured is because the Raiders offensive line allowed him to get injured. Because he was against them protesting," Grimes explained. "And they had a fight in that Monday night game [in Washington]. They were fighting in the locker room and that's the only all-black offensive line in the NFL is the Raiders."


https://www.cbssports.com/nfl/news/lets-debunk-miko-grimes-claim-that-raiders-o-line-let-derek-carr-get-hurt/



I've heard that rumor myself so its not as if she made it up out of thin air.

That being said maybe she should talk about her husband's team and not somebody else's.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 3:54 pm    Post subject:

The Texans signed Josh Johnson. He hasn't thrown a pass in an NFL game since 2011. He's basically a terrible version of Kaepernick.

All political.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 4:07 pm    Post subject:

ChickenStu wrote:
The Texans signed Josh Johnson. He hasn't thrown a pass in an NFL game since 2011. He's basically a terrible version of Kaepernick.

All political.


Who is going to sign Kaepernick to be a third string QB?
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 4:40 pm    Post subject:

ChickenStu wrote:
The Texans signed Josh Johnson. He hasn't thrown a pass in an NFL game since 2011. He's basically a terrible version of Kaepernick.

All political.

Hey, youíre talking about the greatest QB in University of San Diego (no, not SDSU) history!
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AY2043
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 4:40 pm    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
ChickenStu wrote:
The Texans signed Josh Johnson. He hasn't thrown a pass in an NFL game since 2011. He's basically a terrible version of Kaepernick.

All political.


Who is going to sign Kaepernick to be a third string QB?

No one. But the Texans should sign him to be their starter.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 5:34 pm    Post subject:

AY2043 wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
ChickenStu wrote:
The Texans signed Josh Johnson. He hasn't thrown a pass in an NFL game since 2011. He's basically a terrible version of Kaepernick.

All political.


Who is going to sign Kaepernick to be a third string QB?

No one. But the Texans should sign him to be their starter.


Except its not as a starter they clearly want him to be a backup to Savage.

That being said I don't get why people are baffled that teams don't want to sign a QB that's currently suing the NFL.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 6:31 pm    Post subject:

ChickenStu wrote:
The Texans signed Josh Johnson. He hasn't thrown a pass in an NFL game since 2011. He's basically a terrible version of Kaepernick.

All political.


I would rather have Josh Johnson.

I live in San Diego and am very familiar with him. Look up some of his pre-season games for the 49ers, he can play.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 6:47 pm    Post subject:

AY2043 wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
ChickenStu wrote:
The Texans signed Josh Johnson. He hasn't thrown a pass in an NFL game since 2011. He's basically a terrible version of Kaepernick.

All political.


Who is going to sign Kaepernick to be a third string QB?

No one. But the Texans should sign him to be their starter.


See my response to Stu a few posts up. He's not worth it. My point in this post is that Josh Johnson was a different sort of signing than Kaepernick. We're talking about a third string QB. Johnson is a replacement for McGloin.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 9:43 pm    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
AY2043 wrote:
Aeneas Hunter wrote:
ChickenStu wrote:
The Texans signed Josh Johnson. He hasn't thrown a pass in an NFL game since 2011. He's basically a terrible version of Kaepernick.

All political.


Who is going to sign Kaepernick to be a third string QB?

No one. But the Texans should sign him to be their starter.


See my response to Stu a few posts up. He's not worth it. My point in this post is that Josh Johnson was a different sort of signing than Kaepernick. We're talking about a third string QB. Johnson is a replacement for McGloin.

No, yeah I get that. If you were the Patriots a couple weeks ago and had Brady and Jimmy G of course youíre not going to sign Kaepernick to be your 3rd string QB.

My point wasnít that they should have signed Kap instead of Johnson. It was that they should be looking at better options to start instead of Tom Savage.
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PostPosted: Tue Nov 07, 2017 11:42 pm    Post subject:

^
Look, if there are Texans fans here and you're totally cool with being non-competitive for the rest of the season, awesome. I think it's a bit of a slap in the face to their players in that locker room, though, who go through hell to play football. And they essentially are a dead team walking with that terrible passing statue of a quarterback in there. I absolutely understand that Kaep would not win the Texans a Super Bowl. But maybe he keeps them in games and things happen and you make the playoffs. It's a winnable division. Tim Tebow won a division title once.

Perhaps this is a sensitive issue for me because at 5'7, all my life I was looked at like I couldn't do the same things on the field or on the court that taller people could. Didn't matter that I was lightning quick and fast, that no one could throw a fastball by me, that I walked probably 33% of the time, that no one could throw me out trying to steal, etc. (OK, I actually got thrown out once in all my years playing baseball, but that was my dad's fault LOL. But I digress.) I used to make All-Star teams and watch as managers played clearly inferior players over me. The same thing happened in my freshman year of high school, and I gave it up and focused on tennis full-time because it was all political.

I deeply believe in playing the best players that you have on your team (hello, Kyle Kuzma!), and I also believe that the objective of the management of a team should be trying to win wherever that's possible. If the Texans had been 0-7 after last week and before Watson went down, sure, it would be pointless. But it's not like anybody is clearly the class of the AFC South. If they had signed him last week, he probably would've been ready to play this week, and I guarantee you that the Texans would not be 12 point underdogs against the Rams. The Texans are 3-5 and they lost heartbreaking games against the Pats and Seahawks. They had clearly been a competitive team up until last week. They still have divisional games left against the Titans, Jaguars, and Colts, and they also have what should be very winnable home games against Arizona and San Francisco. With a QB that might give you a chance, you aren't out of the race. By refusing to address the situation with the best possible player, they are choosing politics. Many teams have excuses to not sign Kaepernick. The Texans have a massive need, and they are perfectly OK with choosing politics over the chance of winning. It's very disappointing to me. I thought the same thing when Barry Bonds obviously got blackballed from MLB, despite coming off a season where he posted an OPS of over 1.000 in what turned out to be his final year, and despite the fact that I couldn't stand Bonds. My brain just gets offended by what I see as unfairness. Yeah, yeah, I know. Life isn't fair.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 5:38 am    Post subject:

ChickenStu wrote:
Look, if there are Texans fans here and you're totally cool with being non-competitive for the rest of the season, awesome.


I honestly do not understand why you think Colin Freaking Kaepernick would change that. He is not a good quarterback. Last year, he ranked behind Brock Osweiler in QBR. Would he be an improvement over Tom Savage? Probably, but only marginally. That is not enough to put up with the mountain of baggage that comes with him. So, no thanks.

I don't see any unfairness here. Kaepernick is a poor QB who decided to make himself controversial by kneeling for the national anthem. That offends some people, and he intended to offend them. That was the whole point. Let him whine about the backlash all he wants. I will be a little bit surprised if he ever plays in the NFL again.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 12:25 pm    Post subject:

I still think Kaepernick wasn't even sincere with his initial protests. Either some combination of saying "yes mam" to his activist gf and pouting over getting benched for Blaine Gabbert. I never liked him before the protests and I have no reason to ever change that perspective.
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 2:26 pm    Post subject:

time to come home Gruden...

Former NFL GM hearing Jon Gruden's name brought up in possible Buccaneers vacancy

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The latest Grumor is a juicy one, though, as it involves Gruden not only becoming a head coach somewhere again, but becoming a head coach of a team he already coached. Yes, the Tampa Bay Buccaneers, a team that is quickly melting down into a pile of dysfunction, could be looking for a new head coach.


LINK
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PostPosted: Wed Nov 08, 2017 4:06 pm    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
ChickenStu wrote:
Look, if there are Texans fans here and you're totally cool with being non-competitive for the rest of the season, awesome.


I honestly do not understand why you think Colin Freaking Kaepernick would change that. He is not a good quarterback. Last year, he ranked behind Brock Osweiler in QBR. Would he be an improvement over Tom Savage? Probably, but only marginally. That is not enough to put up with the mountain of baggage that comes with him. So, no thanks.

I don't see any unfairness here. Kaepernick is a poor QB who decided to make himself controversial by kneeling for the national anthem. That offends some people, and he intended to offend them. That was the whole point. Let him whine about the backlash all he wants. I will be a little bit surprised if he ever plays in the NFL again.


You're kind of cherry picking one stat there. Yes, according to QBR (which is a subjective stat anyway), Osweiler had a 55.3 QBR while Kaepernick had a 55.2 QBR. However, Kaepernick had 16 TD's (4.8 TD %), 4 INT's (1.2 INT %), 6.8 YPA, and a 9.8 Sack % rate. Osweiler had 15 TD's (2.9 TD %), 16 INT's (3.1 INT %), 5.8 YPA, and a 5.0 Sack % rate. The only thing Osweiler was better at was getting sacked less, which should make sense, since "running" QB's usually take more sacks. Osweiler even had a lower completion %, though both were not good in that area (roughly 59% for each). So with Osweiler completing a less % of passes, with those passes gaining less yardage per attempt, and with him turning the football over much more, and with him not being a threat to run, it's tough to understand how the QBR metric could favor Osweiler. I mean, the stats show he was a worse passer than Kaepernick, and this is before even factoring in Kaepernick's dual threat ability. There is no way that Osweiler was a better QB last season. It's kind of like how one could use the PER "stat" in the NBA to try to show that one guy is better than another guy. PER has never been kind to a guy like Paul George, for example. Last year, George's PER was less than Lou Williams' PER. No one with a straight face would tell you that Lou Williams had a better season. Unless defense just doesn't count, and last time I checked, that's 50% of a basketball player's job.

That all said, this discussion is getting us nowhere. You think Kaep is awful, while I think he would be in the lower tier of starting QB's in the league. That's not even saying much, but I still maintain that that would be a huge upgrade from what a team like the Texans has now. Or the Cardinals. Both of those teams basically have third-string types starting games for them.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 12:31 pm    Post subject:

Colts cut Vontae Davis just before he has season ending surgery.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 1:53 pm    Post subject:

ChickenStu wrote:
That all said, this discussion is getting us nowhere. You think Kaep is awful, while I think he would be in the lower tier of starting QB's in the league. That's not even saying much, but I still maintain that that would be a huge upgrade from what a team like the Texans has now. Or the Cardinals. Both of those teams basically have third-string types starting games for them.


My discussions about Kaepernick both here and elsewhere have been fascinating. There is a subset of fans who actually think Kaepernick is a good QB and who seem mystified that anyone would think otherwise. You don't go that far, as you think that he would be in the lower tier of starting QBs. But you still think he would be a huge upgrade over Tom Savage. Well, no, he wouldn't be a huge upgrade over anyone, short of maybe putting an offensive lineman at QB. You say that QBR is subjective and accuse me of cherry picking stats. The interesting part is that QBR actually gave him a negative rating as a passer last year, which is consistent with what a lot of people think about him.

I really don't get it. He's a lousy QB who carries enough baggage to fill an ocean liner. A team that signed him would face season ticket cancellations, boycotts, and Lavar Ball style media attention. Who the hell cares that he might be marginally better than Tom Savage?
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 4:01 pm    Post subject:

rwongega wrote:
Colts cut Vontae Davis just before he has season ending surgery.


Yeah that's really unbelievable(in that I find it rather terrible not that the Colts are above doing anything dysfunctional)

If not for the Manning years we're the Browns.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 4:08 pm    Post subject:

Basketball Fan wrote:
rwongega wrote:
Colts cut Vontae Davis just before he has season ending surgery.


Yeah that's really unbelievable(in that I find it rather terrible not that the Colts are above doing anything dysfunctional)

If not for the Manning years we're the Browns.


Vontae was perfect for that team. A headcase who performs whenever he's on the field.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 5:00 pm    Post subject:

Martellus Bennett returns to the Patriots

In other news the sky is blue
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 6:34 pm    Post subject:

Jerry Jones about to go to war with the other NFL owners? There are a lot of really bad optics going on in the NFL right now. The league is on a backslide.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 7:27 pm    Post subject:

ChickenStu wrote:
Jerry Jones about to go to war with the other NFL owners? There are a lot of really bad optics going on in the NFL right now. The league is on a backslide.


Yes, the optics are terrible. Jerry Jones is suddenly the reincarnation of Al Davis. Frankly, it is difficult to discern why Roger Goodell is getting paid $40M per year or why he is getting a five year extension. I understand that he has done a lot of good things for the owners on the business side, but at the moment a lot of that is coming undone.
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PostPosted: Thu Nov 09, 2017 8:14 pm    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
ChickenStu wrote:
Jerry Jones about to go to war with the other NFL owners? There are a lot of really bad optics going on in the NFL right now. The league is on a backslide.


Yes, the optics are terrible. Jerry Jones is suddenly the reincarnation of Al Davis. Frankly, it is difficult to discern why Roger Goodell is getting paid $40M per year or why he is getting a five year extension. I understand that he has done a lot of good things for the owners on the business side, but at the moment a lot of that is coming undone.

I truly donít understand why an extension is even on the table for Goodell.. The guy is universally maligned by fans and players, at least a large minority of the owners dislike him, and he has mishandled pretty much every situation thrown at him. The league is in an awful place right now, in large part due to him. It seems like common sense to me that they should look in a different direction.
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