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lakersken80
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2017 9:15 pm    Post subject:

Wow....
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ringfinger
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2017 9:16 pm    Post subject:

FG was blaaaackked.

Man, Chargers still blowing it in the 4th. Thats what you get when you take a rookie kicker I guess.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2017 9:16 pm    Post subject:

Bad line allowed Harris in to block the 2nd attempt. Honestly, I hate the timeout icing policy.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2017 9:19 pm    Post subject:

I think that was the first football game I have ever seen that involved each of the following:

- A female announcer
- Two black head coaches
- An asian kicker

Regardless of how you felt about their performances, that is still pretty neat.
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lakersken80
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2017 9:21 pm    Post subject:

Just like last season Chargers find a way to disappoint in the final plays of the game.
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ringfinger
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2017 9:23 pm    Post subject:

rwongega wrote:
Bad line allowed Harris in to block the 2nd attempt. Honestly, I hate the timeout icing policy.


I doubt it works on veteran kickers. Rookie kickers? Maybe.

Unless you're Aguayo. Then you just let him do his thing. Haha.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2017 9:23 pm    Post subject:

(bleep) (bleep) (bleep) (bleep) (bleep) (bleep).

Typical Chargers (bleep). Get your hopes up of an amazing comeback, then find a new way to lose
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2017 9:25 pm    Post subject:

I am continually amazed at a certain phenomenon as it relates to icing the kicker at the end of games. When the defense calls a timeout to ice the kicker, the kicker always seems to kick the ball anyway. If they make the kick when it doesn't count, it's well over half the time that they will miss the actual kick that counts. I am not exaggerating. It's genuinely unreal how often this happens. It's as if the universe will not allow the kicker to make 2 kicks in a row from the exact same spot just moments later.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2017 9:28 pm    Post subject:

^^
I should add that whenever the kicker goes ahead and kicks it when it doesn't count and he misses it, then he makes it on the next one, the one that counts. It's like you can correct what you did wrong on the one that didn't count. But if you make it, you can't repeat it exactly. It's genuinely one of the strangest things I've seen, how often this holds up.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2017 9:40 pm    Post subject:

ringfinger wrote:
rwongega wrote:
Bad line allowed Harris in to block the 2nd attempt. Honestly, I hate the timeout icing policy.


I doubt it works on veteran kickers. Rookie kickers? Maybe.

Unless you're Aguayo. Then you just let him do his thing. Haha.


Did you even see the play? A Broncos defensive lineman basically ripped through and whacked the ball. No kicker, HOF, veteran, or rookie would've avoided that. Had Feeney done his job, it would've been overtime because that ball if not blocked, would've been good as well.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2017 9:53 pm    Post subject:

ChickenStu wrote:
Siemian takes a bad sack (the 2nd one), they miss the FG, and maybe the Chargers will come from behind to win, instead of coming from ahead to choke! Could set a big tone for the season if they come back to win.

Nah, this game was an example of an even more common Chargers choking tactic. They go down big early, you resign yourself to the fact that they're going to lose, but then just when you think they have no chance they mount a miraculous comeback and give themselves a chance. Then, they inevitably fall just short in the final seconds.

They did switch it up this time though, usually it's an untimely interception or sack/fumble.
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2017 10:19 pm    Post subject:

You're allowed to call timeout right before the kicker kicks?

Why didn't they do it the second time around too?
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ChickenStu
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2017 11:12 pm    Post subject:

CandyCanes wrote:
You're allowed to call timeout right before the kicker kicks?

Why didn't they do it the second time around too?


They could have. I've seen some teams do that. But they probably correctly surmised that the 2nd kick usually misses after the first one goes in LOL. Why give him a 3rd chance?
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PostPosted: Mon Sep 11, 2017 11:40 pm    Post subject:

ChickenStu wrote:
CandyCanes wrote:
You're allowed to call timeout right before the kicker kicks?

Why didn't they do it the second time around too?


They could have. I've seen some teams do that. But they probably correctly surmised that the 2nd kick usually misses after the first one goes in LOL. Why give him a 3rd chance?


Really why give the kicker a second chance? The theory that iceing the kicker works is wrong grantland reviewed 9 seasons and found that iced kickers made a higher percent of their kicks.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2017 12:00 am    Post subject:

Lucky_Shot wrote:
ChickenStu wrote:
CandyCanes wrote:
You're allowed to call timeout right before the kicker kicks?

Why didn't they do it the second time around too?


They could have. I've seen some teams do that. But they probably correctly surmised that the 2nd kick usually misses after the first one goes in LOL. Why give him a 3rd chance?


Really why give the kicker a second chance? The theory that iceing the kicker works is wrong grantland reviewed 9 seasons and found that iced kickers made a higher percent of their kicks.


That's only if they don't actually kick the ball after the whistle. When they actually kick the meaningless kick (and it goes through), they miss more often than they don't on the one that really counts. I agree that the theory of "making them think about it" has no basis. But there is definitely something to actually making the same kick twice.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2017 12:03 am    Post subject:

ChickenStu wrote:
Lucky_Shot wrote:
ChickenStu wrote:
CandyCanes wrote:
You're allowed to call timeout right before the kicker kicks?

Why didn't they do it the second time around too?


They could have. I've seen some teams do that. But they probably correctly surmised that the 2nd kick usually misses after the first one goes in LOL. Why give him a 3rd chance?


Really why give the kicker a second chance? The theory that iceing the kicker works is wrong grantland reviewed 9 seasons and found that iced kickers made a higher percent of their kicks.


That's only if they don't actually kick the ball after the whistle. When they actually kick the meaningless kick (and it goes through), they miss more often than they don't on the one that really counts. I agree that the theory of "making them think about it" has no basis. But there is definitely something to actually making the same kick twice.


In this case though, the 2nd timeout gave a Denver lineman a chance to break through and take a swipe at the kick.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2017 12:25 am    Post subject:

rwongega wrote:
ChickenStu wrote:
Lucky_Shot wrote:
ChickenStu wrote:
CandyCanes wrote:
You're allowed to call timeout right before the kicker kicks?

Why didn't they do it the second time around too?


They could have. I've seen some teams do that. But they probably correctly surmised that the 2nd kick usually misses after the first one goes in LOL. Why give him a 3rd chance?


Really why give the kicker a second chance? The theory that iceing the kicker works is wrong grantland reviewed 9 seasons and found that iced kickers made a higher percent of their kicks.


That's only if they don't actually kick the ball after the whistle. When they actually kick the meaningless kick (and it goes through), they miss more often than they don't on the one that really counts. I agree that the theory of "making them think about it" has no basis. But there is definitely something to actually making the same kick twice.


In this case though, the 2nd timeout gave a Denver lineman a chance to break through and take a swipe at the kick.


My contention is that something different happens with the second field goal operation. Something. Maybe the kicker can't repeat the same kick. Maybe the guys up front don't block the same way. Maybe the opponent's defensive line spots something and rushes differently and breaks through or alters the kick. It's just uncanny how often the actual kick that counts ends up not going in after they kick the "practice" one through the uprights.
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ringfinger
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2017 5:57 am    Post subject:

rwongega wrote:
ringfinger wrote:
rwongega wrote:
Bad line allowed Harris in to block the 2nd attempt. Honestly, I hate the timeout icing policy.


I doubt it works on veteran kickers. Rookie kickers? Maybe.

Unless you're Aguayo. Then you just let him do his thing. Haha.


Did you even see the play? A Broncos defensive lineman basically ripped through and whacked the ball. No kicker, HOF, veteran, or rookie would've avoided that. Had Feeney done his job, it would've been overtime because that ball if not blocked, would've been good as well.


Yeah of course I did. I'm just saying I don't think icing works on veteran kickers. And that maybe it does on rookies. Just a total guess. I hear what you're saying that in this case it wasnt the kickers fault, I was speaking more in generalities.

I wonder what the data looks like for rookie kickers relative to their ordinary FG kick rate. Probably no data out there on that.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2017 9:41 am    Post subject:

DaMuleRules wrote:
Maybe, but the criticisms being leveled at her are things people absolutely ignore when males are calling the game - and some of them are things that conversely things they praise when it's a male. Howard Cosell, Vin Sculley and Chick Hearn all had affectations to their delivery. Madden was a buffoon. But all of them are were revered for being what she is being slammed for.


I watched about half an hour of the broadcast. I noticed that there was a woman calling the game, but I didn't think anything of it. She seemed like just another announcer. It wasn't until I checked this thread right now that I found out that people had issues with her. So yeah, I think you've got a point.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2017 9:46 am    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
DaMuleRules wrote:
Maybe, but the criticisms being leveled at her are things people absolutely ignore when males are calling the game - and some of them are things that conversely things they praise when it's a male. Howard Cosell, Vin Sculley and Chick Hearn all had affectations to their delivery. Madden was a buffoon. But all of them are were revered for being what she is being slammed for.


I watched about half an hour of the broadcast. I noticed that there was a woman calling the game, but I didn't think anything of it. She seemed like just another announcer. It wasn't until I checked this thread right now that I found out that people had issues with her. So yeah, I think you've got a point.


What was funny to me, while all the bickering between posters was going on a football game broke out.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2017 10:34 am    Post subject:

rwongega wrote:
Bad line allowed Harris in to block the 2nd attempt. Honestly, I hate the timeout icing policy.


Very simple, block down, take care of the inside
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2017 11:36 am    Post subject:

ChickenStu wrote:
rwongega wrote:
ChickenStu wrote:
Lucky_Shot wrote:
ChickenStu wrote:
CandyCanes wrote:
You're allowed to call timeout right before the kicker kicks?

Why didn't they do it the second time around too?


They could have. I've seen some teams do that. But they probably correctly surmised that the 2nd kick usually misses after the first one goes in LOL. Why give him a 3rd chance?


Really why give the kicker a second chance? The theory that iceing the kicker works is wrong grantland reviewed 9 seasons and found that iced kickers made a higher percent of their kicks.


That's only if they don't actually kick the ball after the whistle. When they actually kick the meaningless kick (and it goes through), they miss more often than they don't on the one that really counts. I agree that the theory of "making them think about it" has no basis. But there is definitely something to actually making the same kick twice.


In this case though, the 2nd timeout gave a Denver lineman a chance to break through and take a swipe at the kick.


My contention is that something different happens with the second field goal operation. Something. Maybe the kicker can't repeat the same kick. Maybe the guys up front don't block the same way. Maybe the opponent's defensive line spots something and rushes differently and breaks through or alters the kick. It's just uncanny how often the actual kick that counts ends up not going in after they kick the "practice" one through the uprights.


No two plays ever end up the same way. I tend to vouch for a rule change here: If the kicker starts towards his run, then no timeouts can be called as the play is starting.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2017 11:58 am    Post subject:

rwongega wrote:
Honestly, I hate the timeout icing policy.


I'd like to see a delay of game penalty if the coach calls the timeout so late that the ball winds up getting snapped. If you want to ice the kicker, fine. Just get rid of the stupid theater.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2017 2:01 pm    Post subject:

Aeneas Hunter wrote:
rwongega wrote:
Honestly, I hate the timeout icing policy.


I'd like to see a delay of game penalty if the coach calls the timeout so late that the ball winds up getting snapped. If you want to ice the kicker, fine. Just get rid of the stupid theater.


I see what you're saying about timing it really close. In a lot of these instances, it seems like the coach hurriedly asks for the timeout just an instant before the ball is snapped, the center actually snaps the ball, and then the official blows the whistle to stop the play AFTER the ball has been snapped. (In other words, the coach asks for the timeout before the play starts but times it so close that the official only blows the whistle after the snap, and the official recognizes that the timeout was actually asked for BEFORE the snap.) Yeah, I don't like that, either. Perhaps they need to change it so that if it's close and the official can't actually blow the whistle before the snap, then the play should just go on.
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PostPosted: Tue Sep 12, 2017 2:20 pm    Post subject:

Yea I can't stand the Chargers, nor the Donkeys, but this last second timeout before the snap of potential game tying or game winning FG's needs to cease asap!

The NFL's competition committee needs have this strategy banned or severely penalized.

It's not good for the sport, and puts even more pressure on the shoulders of these kickers.

A team can prepare all week, execute a game plan perfectly, and still lose a tough road divisional game because of the ineptness of the one player who doesn't even really need to grind or be involved in the team's prep all week.
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