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yinoma2001
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 Posted: Tue Feb 14, 2017 6:27 am Post subject: 96/4 = Lakers Guard Minutes |
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96 guard minutes (48 minutes available at each guard spot) divided by 4 players = 24 minutes.
2015-16 season:
JC: 32 mpg
Lou: 28.5 mpg
DLO: 28 mpg
Swaggy: 19 mpg (in only 54 games)
2016-17 season:
JC: 27 mpg (-5 mpg from 2015-16 season)
DLO: 26 (-2 mpg)
Swaggy: 26 (+ 7 mpg)
Lou: 24 (-4.5 mpg)
Swaggy's reemergence this year has really cut into the guard minutes. Last year's 3 guard rotation was more sustainable b/c Swaggy played in fewer games and minutes.
I think we have 4 legit players that all deserve minutes; I cannot in good conscience argue that 1 of the 4 guards simply have a major reduction in minutes. And as a coach, that's a difficult task too which is why Luke essentially divides the 96 available guard minutes by 4.
Not many teams have a 4 guard rotation like ours. The closest I could find was Philadelphia, which doesn't really have any top guards:
Henderson: 24mpg
Stauskas: 27
Sergio: 22
TJ: 25.
Denver also has:
Mudiay: 28
Harris: 28 (only 31 games)
Nelson: 26
Murray: 20.
I don't see the Lakers 96/4 rotation being a viable one going forward. DLO hopefully gets closer to 30mpg to round out the year. IF we are keeping the 4 guards, I would like to see:
DLO: 30
JC: 28
That leaves 38 minutes to be divided b/w Lou and Swaggy.
Swaggy: 20
Lou:18
However, I don't see this happening at all.
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Tue Feb 14, 2017 6:46 am Post subject: |
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With 26 games, this is really the time for Luke to start ramping up DLO's minutes. Let the kid make mistakes and learn right now b/c the playoffs are out of reach. This is a crucial growth process for a young player like him. What is there to lose at this point?
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dcarter4kobe
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| Posted: Tue Feb 14, 2017 6:53 am Post subject: |
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Preaching to the choir.
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Tue Feb 14, 2017 6:57 am Post subject: |
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| dcarter4kobe wrote: | | Preaching to the choir. |
There were plenty of folks here wondering why DLO was getting so few minutes. Just wanted to spell it out and show the actual effects of having 4 capable guards who all need minutes. Last year it was easier b/c Swaggy was solidly in Byron's doghouse.
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dcarter4kobe
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| Posted: Tue Feb 14, 2017 7:00 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | dcarter4kobe wrote: | | Preaching to the choir. |
There were plenty of folks here wondering why DLO was getting so few minutes. Just wanted to spell it out and show the actual effects of having 4 capable guards who all need minutes. Last year it was easier b/c Swaggy was solidly in Byron's doghouse. |
Yeah it's a good visual to actually see. And honestly I don't think 30 minutes is enough for Dlo either. Should be around 32-34.
Kind of ironic we complained a lot about Byron not playing Dlo enough minutes last season, now he is better and playing even less.
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Tue Feb 14, 2017 7:05 am Post subject: |
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| dcarter4kobe wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | dcarter4kobe wrote: | | Preaching to the choir. |
There were plenty of folks here wondering why DLO was getting so few minutes. Just wanted to spell it out and show the actual effects of having 4 capable guards who all need minutes. Last year it was easier b/c Swaggy was solidly in Byron's doghouse. |
Yeah it's a good visual to actually see. And honestly I don't think 30 minutes is enough for Dlo either. Should be around 32-34.
Kind of ironic we complained a lot about Byron not playing Dlo enough minutes last season, now he is better and playing even less. |
Well, Byron just didn't play Swaggy. If he had 4 able guards, I could see him playing DLO less last season.
The issue is that we can't really slide Young to the SF spot b/c we have a minutes logjam with Ingram/Deng, and can't slide Deng to PF b/c we have a logjam with Jules/Nance.
FO needs to clear some logjams IMO and look prospectively at what pieces will remain as the core going forward.
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pio2u
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| Posted: Tue Feb 14, 2017 7:06 am Post subject: |
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| It's time to play ALL of the young players for the rest of the season. |
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dcarter4kobe
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| Posted: Tue Feb 14, 2017 7:06 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | dcarter4kobe wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | dcarter4kobe wrote: | | Preaching to the choir. |
There were plenty of folks here wondering why DLO was getting so few minutes. Just wanted to spell it out and show the actual effects of having 4 capable guards who all need minutes. Last year it was easier b/c Swaggy was solidly in Byron's doghouse. |
Yeah it's a good visual to actually see. And honestly I don't think 30 minutes is enough for Dlo either. Should be around 32-34.
Kind of ironic we complained a lot about Byron not playing Dlo enough minutes last season, now he is better and playing even less. |
Well, Byron just didn't play Swaggy. If he had 4 able guards, I could see him playing DLO less last season.
The issue is that we can't really slide Young to the SF spot b/c we have a minutes logjam with Ingram/Deng, and can't slide Deng to PF b/c we have a logjam with Jules/Nance.
FO needs to clear some logjams IMO and look prospectively at what pieces will remain as the core going forward. |
Will Magic be smart enough to see that? Doubtful 
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Tue Feb 14, 2017 7:09 am Post subject: |
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| pio2u wrote: | | It's time to play ALL of the young players for the rest of the season. |
Yeah. I don't mind a primarily 3 guard rotation with a 32 (DLO), JC (32) (32 for the 3rd guard whether it's Lou or Swaggy). But having it cut 4 ways really is a disservice b/c you can't please everyone on the team, especially when a young player like DLO needs minutes and repetition.
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activeverb
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| Posted: Tue Feb 14, 2017 7:56 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | dcarter4kobe wrote: | | Preaching to the choir. |
There were plenty of folks here wondering why DLO was getting so few minutes. Just wanted to spell it out and show the actual effects of having 4 capable guards who all need minutes. Last year it was easier b/c Swaggy was solidly in Byron's doghouse. |
From what I've read, Luke has been holding down Russell's minutes because of various dissatisfaction with him. Earlier in the season it was about his not putting energy into defense. More recently, Luke has been saying that Russell looks tired in practices and during games. So I get a sense something is definitely going on between them and Luke is holding back his minutes because either he doesn't feel Russell is up for it or he feels Russell needs to work harder to earn them |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Tue Feb 14, 2017 7:58 am Post subject: |
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| activeverb wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | dcarter4kobe wrote: | | Preaching to the choir. |
There were plenty of folks here wondering why DLO was getting so few minutes. Just wanted to spell it out and show the actual effects of having 4 capable guards who all need minutes. Last year it was easier b/c Swaggy was solidly in Byron's doghouse. |
From what I've read, Luke has been holding down Russell's minutes because of various dissatisfaction with him. Earlier in the season it was about his not putting energy into defense. More recently, Luke has been saying that Russell looks tired in practices and during games. So I get a sense something is definitely going on between them and Luke is holding back his minutes because either he doesn't feel Russell is up for it or he feels Russell needs to work harder to earn them |
Sure, with any young guard, there is that element. However, the simpler explanation is that the Lakers have a 4th guard (Swaggy) as a co-equal (minutes-wise). That was not present last year as a factor. Swaggy really has improved his play.
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Fastbreak32
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| Posted: Tue Feb 14, 2017 8:25 am Post subject: |
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I agree, Yinoma. I also wonder if the vets have been given more minutes to entice teams to trade for them. I think we'll get an answer either way after the all-star break.
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nash
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| Posted: Tue Feb 14, 2017 8:25 am Post subject: |
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| activeverb wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | dcarter4kobe wrote: | | Preaching to the choir. |
There were plenty of folks here wondering why DLO was getting so few minutes. Just wanted to spell it out and show the actual effects of having 4 capable guards who all need minutes. Last year it was easier b/c Swaggy was solidly in Byron's doghouse. |
From what I've read, Luke has been holding down Russell's minutes because of various dissatisfaction with him. Earlier in the season it was about his not putting energy into defense. More recently, Luke has been saying that Russell looks tired in practices and during games. So I get a sense something is definitely going on between them and Luke is holding back his minutes because either he doesn't feel Russell is up for it or he feels Russell needs to work harder to earn them |
I really don't know because at this point Dlo is a better player than Ingram, but Luke holds him in a shorter leash. Russell had somewhat the same kind of problems with Scott, but that was not expected with Luke a players coach so it may have some to do with his work ethic, but at this point it may not be considered more than speculation. The fact is that unfortunately he and Randle are two players that don't bring it every night.
Last edited by nash on Tue Feb 14, 2017 8:34 am; edited 1 time in total |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Tue Feb 14, 2017 8:26 am Post subject: |
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The fascinating thing is that Swaggy absolutely earned his way into the minutes. Probably caught the FO/coaches by surprise as rumors abounded about Swaggy being cut after training camp.
It's I suppose, a good problem to have, but nevertheless it's not a sustainable plan to basically divide 96/4.
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LakersRGolden
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| Posted: Tue Feb 14, 2017 8:29 am Post subject: |
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| Sit Deng those games when he disappears and run Swaggy at SF some. |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Tue Feb 14, 2017 8:32 am Post subject: |
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| nash wrote: | | activeverb wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | dcarter4kobe wrote: | | Preaching to the choir. |
There were plenty of folks here wondering why DLO was getting so few minutes. Just wanted to spell it out and show the actual effects of having 4 capable guards who all need minutes. Last year it was easier b/c Swaggy was solidly in Byron's doghouse. |
From what I've read, Luke has been holding down Russell's minutes because of various dissatisfaction with him. Earlier in the season it was about his not putting energy into defense. More recently, Luke has been saying that Russell looks tired in practices and during games. So I get a sense something is definitely going on between them and Luke is holding back his minutes because either he doesn't feel Russell is up for it or he feels Russell needs to work harder to earn them |
I really don't know because at this point Dlo is a better player than Ingram, but Luke holds him in a shorter leash. Russell had somewhat the same kind of problems with Scott, but that was not expected with Luke a players coach, so it may have some to do with his work ethic, but at this point it may not be considered more than speculation the fact is that unfortunately him and Randle are two players that don't bring it every night. |
I think 96/4 is the simple explanation. Luke's a player's coach and wants to keep Lou/Swaggy/JC happy too. And to their credit, all 4 of the guards deserve minutes. And Luke is basically splitting the baby by starting DLO/Swaggy 1st/3rd, and giving Lou/JC ample run to close 2nd/4th.
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nash
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| Posted: Tue Feb 14, 2017 8:36 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | nash wrote: | | activeverb wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | dcarter4kobe wrote: | | Preaching to the choir. |
There were plenty of folks here wondering why DLO was getting so few minutes. Just wanted to spell it out and show the actual effects of having 4 capable guards who all need minutes. Last year it was easier b/c Swaggy was solidly in Byron's doghouse. |
From what I've read, Luke has been holding down Russell's minutes because of various dissatisfaction with him. Earlier in the season it was about his not putting energy into defense. More recently, Luke has been saying that Russell looks tired in practices and during games. So I get a sense something is definitely going on between them and Luke is holding back his minutes because either he doesn't feel Russell is up for it or he feels Russell needs to work harder to earn them |
I really don't know because at this point Dlo is a better player than Ingram, but Luke holds him in a shorter leash. Russell had somewhat the same kind of problems with Scott, but that was not expected with Luke a players coach, so it may have some to do with his work ethic, but at this point it may not be considered more than speculation the fact is that unfortunately him and Randle are two players that don't bring it every night. |
I think 96/4 is the simple explanation. Luke's a player's coach and wants to keep Lou/Swaggy/JC happy too. And to their credit, all 4 of the guards deserve minutes. And Luke is basically splitting the baby by starting DLO/Swaggy 1st/3rd, and giving Lou/JC ample run to close 2nd/4th. |
At this point moving JC or Lou would be a good idea because they play similar role. Lou is the better player, but JC is younger and still has room to grow while Lou's decline is something to be expected in the years to come, but he may have good value for a contender needing a solid scoring punch from the bench. |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Tue Feb 14, 2017 8:40 am Post subject: |
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| nash wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | nash wrote: | | activeverb wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | dcarter4kobe wrote: | | Preaching to the choir. |
There were plenty of folks here wondering why DLO was getting so few minutes. Just wanted to spell it out and show the actual effects of having 4 capable guards who all need minutes. Last year it was easier b/c Swaggy was solidly in Byron's doghouse. |
From what I've read, Luke has been holding down Russell's minutes because of various dissatisfaction with him. Earlier in the season it was about his not putting energy into defense. More recently, Luke has been saying that Russell looks tired in practices and during games. So I get a sense something is definitely going on between them and Luke is holding back his minutes because either he doesn't feel Russell is up for it or he feels Russell needs to work harder to earn them |
I really don't know because at this point Dlo is a better player than Ingram, but Luke holds him in a shorter leash. Russell had somewhat the same kind of problems with Scott, but that was not expected with Luke a players coach, so it may have some to do with his work ethic, but at this point it may not be considered more than speculation the fact is that unfortunately him and Randle are two players that don't bring it every night. |
I think 96/4 is the simple explanation. Luke's a player's coach and wants to keep Lou/Swaggy/JC happy too. And to their credit, all 4 of the guards deserve minutes. And Luke is basically splitting the baby by starting DLO/Swaggy 1st/3rd, and giving Lou/JC ample run to close 2nd/4th. |
At this point moving JC or Lou would be a good idea because they play similar role. Lou is the better player, but JC is younger and still has room to grow while Lou's decline is something to be expected in the years to come, but he may have good value for a contender needing a solid scoring punch from the bench. |
Yeah. 3 guard rotation is better IMO. All 4 really deserve playing time too.
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Fastbreak32
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| Posted: Tue Feb 14, 2017 8:47 am Post subject: |
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Yes, I think Lou has to be the odd man out. He's having a career year, so hopefully we can get value for him. I'm sure there's a contender out there who wants someone who can score 18 in under 25 minutes.
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LeBron, AD, & _________. Stay tuned.
"...there was a time when the Israelites were wandering in the desert and all of a sudden, bread came down from heaven,” Pelinka said. “That’s kind of what today feels like for us to have KCP join.” |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Tue Feb 14, 2017 8:59 am Post subject: |
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Happy that the East will become an arms race b/w Clev., Raptors (now legit contender in East IMO), Wiz, and even Boston.
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fiendishoc
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| Posted: Tue Feb 14, 2017 9:16 am Post subject: |
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| Well we could have seen more Swaggy at SF. Instead we saw more Ingram at guard. |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Tue Feb 14, 2017 9:19 am Post subject: |
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| fiendishoc wrote: | | Well we could have seen more Swaggy at SF. Instead we saw more Ingram at guard. |
We just have logjams galore, with sadly our veterans being way overcompensated to become 2nd or even 3rd string players. Ideally, I agree that Young should see more SF time, but where do you stash Deng off the bench (b/c he can't play PF b/c Nance is there now that Zub has become our #2 center...let alone Moz dropping to 3rd on the depth chart).
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fiendishoc
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| Posted: Tue Feb 14, 2017 9:27 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | fiendishoc wrote: | | Well we could have seen more Swaggy at SF. Instead we saw more Ingram at guard. |
We just have logjams galore, with sadly our veterans being way overcompensated to become 2nd or even 3rd string players. Ideally, I agree that Young should see more SF time, but where do you stash Deng off the bench (b/c he can't play PF b/c Nance is there now that Zub has become our #2 center...let alone Moz dropping to 3rd on the depth chart). |
I think he could have brought Ingram along slower. Maybe it will pay off in development in the long run, but in the short run I think it cost us some wins. If you're talking this stage of the season, well, it's already established that we're sitting vets.
As for next season, it's too early to know what we're going to have then. |
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nash
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| Posted: Tue Feb 14, 2017 10:02 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | nash wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | nash wrote: | | activeverb wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | dcarter4kobe wrote: | | Preaching to the choir. |
There were plenty of folks here wondering why DLO was getting so few minutes. Just wanted to spell it out and show the actual effects of having 4 capable guards who all need minutes. Last year it was easier b/c Swaggy was solidly in Byron's doghouse. |
From what I've read, Luke has been holding down Russell's minutes because of various dissatisfaction with him. Earlier in the season it was about his not putting energy into defense. More recently, Luke has been saying that Russell looks tired in practices and during games. So I get a sense something is definitely going on between them and Luke is holding back his minutes because either he doesn't feel Russell is up for it or he feels Russell needs to work harder to earn them |
I really don't know because at this point Dlo is a better player than Ingram, but Luke holds him in a shorter leash. Russell had somewhat the same kind of problems with Scott, but that was not expected with Luke a players coach, so it may have some to do with his work ethic, but at this point it may not be considered more than speculation the fact is that unfortunately him and Randle are two players that don't bring it every night. |
I think 96/4 is the simple explanation. Luke's a player's coach and wants to keep Lou/Swaggy/JC happy too. And to their credit, all 4 of the guards deserve minutes. And Luke is basically splitting the baby by starting DLO/Swaggy 1st/3rd, and giving Lou/JC ample run to close 2nd/4th. |
At this point moving JC or Lou would be a good idea because they play similar role. Lou is the better player, but JC is younger and still has room to grow while Lou's decline is something to be expected in the years to come, but he may have good value for a contender needing a solid scoring punch from the bench. |
Yeah. 3 guard rotation is better IMO. All 4 really deserve playing time too. |
There is another possible issue, Russell long term health. He is listed again as probably "sore left knee", not a good signal for someone playing moderate minutes in a slow and controlled pace. |
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dcarter4kobe
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| Posted: Tue Feb 14, 2017 11:01 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | fiendishoc wrote: | | Well we could have seen more Swaggy at SF. Instead we saw more Ingram at guard. |
We just have logjams galore, with sadly our veterans being way overcompensated to become 2nd or even 3rd string players. Ideally, I agree that Young should see more SF time, but where do you stash Deng off the bench (b/c he can't play PF b/c Nance is there now that Zub has become our #2 center...let alone Moz dropping to 3rd on the depth chart). |
That's the elephant in the room.
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