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Ujah's Goat
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 Posted: Tue Feb 14, 2017 12:55 pm Post subject: |
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| fiendishoc wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | fiendishoc wrote: | | Well we could have seen more Swaggy at SF. Instead we saw more Ingram at guard. |
We just have logjams galore, with sadly our veterans being way overcompensated to become 2nd or even 3rd string players. Ideally, I agree that Young should see more SF time, but where do you stash Deng off the bench (b/c he can't play PF b/c Nance is there now that Zub has become our #2 center...let alone Moz dropping to 3rd on the depth chart). |
I think he could have brought Ingram along slower. Maybe it will pay off in development in the long run, but in the short run I think it cost us some wins. If you're talking this stage of the season, well, it's already established that we're sitting vets.
As for next season, it's too early to know what we're going to have then. |
Maybe sit different players each night so that each gets more run per game? Luke has already sat Moz and Deng. Why not do the same with the guards? |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Tue Feb 14, 2017 1:19 pm Post subject: |
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| Ujah's Goat wrote: | | fiendishoc wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | fiendishoc wrote: | | Well we could have seen more Swaggy at SF. Instead we saw more Ingram at guard. |
We just have logjams galore, with sadly our veterans being way overcompensated to become 2nd or even 3rd string players. Ideally, I agree that Young should see more SF time, but where do you stash Deng off the bench (b/c he can't play PF b/c Nance is there now that Zub has become our #2 center...let alone Moz dropping to 3rd on the depth chart). |
I think he could have brought Ingram along slower. Maybe it will pay off in development in the long run, but in the short run I think it cost us some wins. If you're talking this stage of the season, well, it's already established that we're sitting vets.
As for next season, it's too early to know what we're going to have then. |
Maybe sit different players each night so that each gets more run per game? Luke has already sat Moz and Deng. Why not do the same with the guards? |
I think the difference is all 4 have value on the court unlike Moz/Deng.
It's not that any one of the 4 guards are somehow a bad player unfairly getting PT (i.e. Ronnie Price), it's that we have TOO many productive guards and Luke feels the need to play them equal minutes.
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Ujah's Goat
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| Posted: Tue Feb 14, 2017 1:34 pm Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | Ujah's Goat wrote: | | fiendishoc wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | fiendishoc wrote: | | Well we could have seen more Swaggy at SF. Instead we saw more Ingram at guard. |
We just have logjams galore, with sadly our veterans being way overcompensated to become 2nd or even 3rd string players. Ideally, I agree that Young should see more SF time, but where do you stash Deng off the bench (b/c he can't play PF b/c Nance is there now that Zub has become our #2 center...let alone Moz dropping to 3rd on the depth chart). |
I think he could have brought Ingram along slower. Maybe it will pay off in development in the long run, but in the short run I think it cost us some wins. If you're talking this stage of the season, well, it's already established that we're sitting vets.
As for next season, it's too early to know what we're going to have then. |
Maybe sit different players each night so that each gets more run per game? Luke has already sat Moz and Deng. Why not do the same with the guards? |
I think the difference is all 4 have value on the court unlike Moz/Deng.
It's not that any one of the 4 guards are somehow a bad player unfairly getting PT (i.e. Ronnie Price), it's that we have TOO many productive guards and Luke feels the need to play them equal minutes. |
The guard situation would resolve itself if one of the 4 is moved or Young walks. Wonder if this continues next year should we keep our pick and draft a guard. |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Tue Feb 14, 2017 1:37 pm Post subject: |
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Yeah. I don't like a 96/4 rotation for our guards long-term at all.
If we are fortunate to get someone like Fultz, it would be an extremely good and interesting problem to have. But if not, I hope we pare our guard rotation down.
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Wed Feb 15, 2017 6:13 am Post subject: |
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Tonight DLO didn't deserve to close out the game. That being said, Luke also has to start making DLO figure out to play himself out of a funk instead of conveniently yanking him out. I guess last night, with the rumors that Lou is being shopped, it was a good showcase to up his value.
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Ujah's Goat
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| Posted: Wed Feb 15, 2017 7:43 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | Tonight DLO didn't deserve to close out the game. That being said, Luke also has to start making DLO figure out to play himself out of a funk instead of conveniently yanking him out. I guess last night, with the rumors that Lou is being shopped, it was a good showcase to up his value. |
Russell's effort at times is so whack smh. |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Wed Feb 15, 2017 2:20 pm Post subject: |
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| Ujah's Goat wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | Tonight DLO didn't deserve to close out the game. That being said, Luke also has to start making DLO figure out to play himself out of a funk instead of conveniently yanking him out. I guess last night, with the rumors that Lou is being shopped, it was a good showcase to up his value. |
Russell's effort at times is so whack smh. |
It is. But does benching him enable that or improve it? Rather see him he embarrassed out there so he shapes up rather than just letting Lou do his thing.
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greenfrog
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| Posted: Wed Feb 15, 2017 2:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Ujah's Goat wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | Tonight DLO didn't deserve to close out the game. That being said, Luke also has to start making DLO figure out to play himself out of a funk instead of conveniently yanking him out. I guess last night, with the rumors that Lou is being shopped, it was a good showcase to up his value. |
Russell's effort at times is so whack smh. |
The most perplexing player I've ever seen. I hope he finishes the season well for his sake. With all the management upheaval and cries for "change" it's hard to figure how he isn't more driven to put his stamp on this team. The ball is literally in his hands. |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Wed Feb 15, 2017 7:20 pm Post subject: |
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We are back to 96/4 again tonight. 12/12/11/11 in minutes first half. This (bleep) is unsustainable and deleterious to our young players needing more minutes even if they are having a poor night.
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lakersfan8
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| Posted: Wed Feb 15, 2017 7:22 pm Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | We are back to 96/4 again tonight. 12/12/11/11 in minutes first half. This (bleep) is unsustainable and deleterious to our young players needing more minutes even if they are having a poor night. |
Somehow Luke still thinks winning the game is more important. |
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Wed Feb 15, 2017 8:27 pm Post subject: |
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| lakersfan8 wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | We are back to 96/4 again tonight. 12/12/11/11 in minutes first half. This (bleep) is unsustainable and deleterious to our young players needing more minutes even if they are having a poor night. |
Somehow Luke still thinks winning the game is more important. |
Well one is not mutually exclusive of the other. The young guys would get more minutes if they deserve it.
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Wed Feb 15, 2017 8:33 pm Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | lakersfan8 wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | We are back to 96/4 again tonight. 12/12/11/11 in minutes first half. This (bleep) is unsustainable and deleterious to our young players needing more minutes even if they are having a poor night. |
Somehow Luke still thinks winning the game is more important. |
Well one is not mutually exclusive of the other. The young guys would get more minutes if they deserve it. |
That's not the point. We have 4 guys who all deserve minutes for various reasons. Luke decides to basically split it 4 ways. This is a FO move to clear the clutter. (And this isn't about whether Lou is a good or bad player more of a minutes crunch).
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lakersfan8
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| Posted: Wed Feb 15, 2017 9:07 pm Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | lakersfan8 wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | We are back to 96/4 again tonight. 12/12/11/11 in minutes first half. This (bleep) is unsustainable and deleterious to our young players needing more minutes even if they are having a poor night. |
Somehow Luke still thinks winning the game is more important. |
Well one is not mutually exclusive of the other. The young guys would get more minutes if they deserve it. |
That's not the point. We have 4 guys who all deserve minutes for various reasons. Luke decides to basically split it 4 ways. This is a FO move to clear the clutter. (And this isn't about whether Lou is a good or bad player more of a minutes crunch). |
No, if Russell is a better scorer than Lou then we won't have this problem. Luke splits the minutes like this because he wants to develop Russell but he also doesn't want the game to become ugly. Instead of telling Russell to man up and become the player we hope he is, we critizise Lou taking Russell's shots. Young is capable playing SF. It doesn't have to be a 4 GUARD problem. |
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FreakofNature
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| Posted: Wed Feb 15, 2017 9:12 pm Post subject: |
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DLo gets 20 per game when playing 31 or more minutes (32 minutes average in those 14 games). His shooting goes up to 42% from 39% overall. He also gets 6 assists. DLO should get 34/35 minutes a game from here on out...
Trade LOU, help our odds at keeping a top 3 pick. get a 1st rounder for LOU. And give us a better chance at keeping the 19' pick along with that top 3 pick. |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2017 6:11 am Post subject: |
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| lakersfan8 wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | lakersfan8 wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | We are back to 96/4 again tonight. 12/12/11/11 in minutes first half. This (bleep) is unsustainable and deleterious to our young players needing more minutes even if they are having a poor night. |
Somehow Luke still thinks winning the game is more important. |
Well one is not mutually exclusive of the other. The young guys would get more minutes if they deserve it. |
That's not the point. We have 4 guys who all deserve minutes for various reasons. Luke decides to basically split it 4 ways. This is a FO move to clear the clutter. (And this isn't about whether Lou is a good or bad player more of a minutes crunch). |
No, if Russell is a better scorer than Lou then we won't have this problem. Luke splits the minutes like this because he wants to develop Russell but he also doesn't want the game to become ugly. Instead of telling Russell to man up and become the player we hope he is, we critizise Lou taking Russell's shots. Young is capable playing SF. It doesn't have to be a 4 GUARD problem. |
Disagree. It's really about trying to please all 4 of DLO/Lou/JC/Young. He can't slot Young at SF b/c you have Ingram/Deng that need minutes. We are stuck with a 96/4 issue until we move one of the 4 guards.
It's not Lou's fault for being placed in this situation. Actually, all 4 guards deserve probably closer to 30 mpg/each, but we can't do that. DLO needs the developmental minutes to make mistakes and grow; Lou is a competent vet and so is Swaggy; and JC also needs developmental minutes.
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2017 6:15 am Post subject: |
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I don't like the minutes distributions either. I don't have the exact numbers but it appears something like:
1Q, 7 mpg: DLO/Swaggy
1Q to 2Q, 12mpg: JC/Lou
2Q, 5 mpg: DLO/Swaggy
3Q, 7 mpg: DLO/Swaggy
3Q to 4Q, 12mpg: JC/Lou
Final 5 minutes in 4Q: up in the air.
Basically, JC/Lou get long 12 minute shifts to get a rhythm and flow. They get a break when the quarters end. Meanwhile, DLO/Swaggy have very truncated shifts and lose a lot of rhythm and flow. Oftentimes DLO/Swaggy are sitting 22-25 minutes of actual time out of a game. Anyone that's played basketball understands how cold your body gets when you sit out that long.
I don't understand these rotations, and I'm someone who has (and will continue to be) high on Luke.
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2017 1:09 pm Post subject: |
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Just think if we had DLO/JC/Swaggy with occasional Calderon/Huertas.
I could see:
DLO 32mpg
JC 32 mpg
Swaggy 28 mpg
Calderon/Huertas 4 mpg.
That's a better minutes distribution than what we have now with basically DLO/JC/Swaggy/Lou playing closer to 24-26mpg each.
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lakersfan8
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| Posted: Thu Feb 16, 2017 7:34 pm Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | lakersfan8 wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | lakersfan8 wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | We are back to 96/4 again tonight. 12/12/11/11 in minutes first half. This (bleep) is unsustainable and deleterious to our young players needing more minutes even if they are having a poor night. |
Somehow Luke still thinks winning the game is more important. |
Well one is not mutually exclusive of the other. The young guys would get more minutes if they deserve it. |
That's not the point. We have 4 guys who all deserve minutes for various reasons. Luke decides to basically split it 4 ways. This is a FO move to clear the clutter. (And this isn't about whether Lou is a good or bad player more of a minutes crunch). |
No, if Russell is a better scorer than Lou then we won't have this problem. Luke splits the minutes like this because he wants to develop Russell but he also doesn't want the game to become ugly. Instead of telling Russell to man up and become the player we hope he is, we critizise Lou taking Russell's shots. Young is capable playing SF. It doesn't have to be a 4 GUARD problem. |
Disagree. It's really about trying to please all 4 of DLO/Lou/JC/Young. He can't slot Young at SF b/c you have Ingram/Deng that need minutes. We are stuck with a 96/4 issue until we move one of the 4 guards.
It's not Lou's fault for being placed in this situation. Actually, all 4 guards deserve probably closer to 30 mpg/each, but we can't do that. DLO needs the developmental minutes to make mistakes and grow; Lou is a competent vet and so is Swaggy; and JC also needs developmental minutes. |
Deng can and has been playing minutes at the PF position. Take yesterday's game for example, there was a lineup like Huertus, Williams, Clarkson, Deng and Nance. You can easily change Huertus to Young. Also, Deng's on court performance has been underachieved, he doesn't necessarily need consistent minutes. Mozgov is out of the rotation completely despite being healthy. Why do we have to give playing time for Deng? I don't think this makes sense.
Cut Deng's minutes at SF, give that to Young then you can easily distribute more minutes to DLO and JC. |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Fri Feb 24, 2017 6:13 am Post subject: |
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So we should have less of a logjam now. IMO I think there's a good chance Calderon is bought out so he can join a playoff team. Hopefully we see:
DLO: 32mpg
JC: 32 mpg
Young: 28-29mpg
Ennis/Brewer/others: remaining minutes.
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