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fontana3d
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 Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2017 11:52 am Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | fontana3d wrote: | | LakerLogic wrote: | | No way in hell we trade Fultz or Ball. |
Then we are not getting PG so wait till summer of 18. |
Then we likely don't get PG because we still suck and can only offer less. |
We better not suck next year or else Philly gets a top 5 pick because it will be unprotected. Do you want that? |
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fontana3d
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| Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2017 11:54 am Post subject: |
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| andree wrote: | | LakerLogic wrote: | | Lakers should be patient. Nobody is beating the Ws or Cavs in the next 2 to 3 years. If there ever was a time to suck, it's now. Sign PG as a FA. |
And we suck. Badly. I understand your point and it's valid.
But, if you look around the patience is weaning. This is a 4.th year without postseason. For one of the most spoiled fans in sport's history, that's a blasphemy. Even in our last drought in 90', we miss the playoffs only one year.
The next question is: how much do we need to suck? Even with the next high prospect next year and without big FA, we won't make the playoff.
And from next year on the extensions are coming. With Mozgov and Deng still here and the new extensions our window to lure big FA is not open for too long. Magic&Co need to decide which direction we take. And pretty soon. |
Just long enough to screw Philly and Orlando out of top 5 picks.Also summer 17 don't bother because the market is awful anyways. The real focus is Summer 2018.
Last edited by fontana3d on Sun Feb 26, 2017 11:55 am; edited 1 time in total |
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frenchbullcho
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| Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2017 11:54 am Post subject: |
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| Worthy42 wrote: | He got ejected last night in the 3rd.
Listening to his recent interviews pre-trade deadline sounds like he's done with Indiana.
His stats in that stretch of time has been dog crap too. Tanking his value on purpose.  |
I agree, he looks very unhappy in Indiana. 2018! |
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fontana3d
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| Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2017 11:57 am Post subject: |
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| frenchbullcho wrote: | | Worthy42 wrote: | He got ejected last night in the 3rd.
Listening to his recent interviews pre-trade deadline sounds like he's done with Indiana.
His stats in that stretch of time has been dog crap too. Tanking his value on purpose. |
I agree, he looks very unhappy in Indiana. 2018! |
And ready to leave some money on the table if he does leave. |
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2017 12:01 pm Post subject: |
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| fontana3d wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | fontana3d wrote: | | LakerLogic wrote: | | No way in hell we trade Fultz or Ball. |
Then we are not getting PG so wait till summer of 18. |
Then we likely don't get PG because we still suck and can only offer less. |
We better not suck next year or else Philly gets a top 5 pick because it will be unprotected. Do you want that? |
It doesn't matter what I want, unless we bring in a star we won't be good next season and likely not a FA destination. Again. And I don't give a crap about Philly. If our FO is making moves with Philly in mind we are screwed.
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LakerLogic
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| Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2017 12:06 pm Post subject: |
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The rest of this year and beginning of next year will be the litmus test. Do Russell and Ingram take the next step? How about Randle? He is up for an extension. If they are playing like they are now, I see them being traded.
It is up to Pelinka to figure out how much George wants to be here and if that is legit. |
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fontana3d
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| Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2017 12:08 pm Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | fontana3d wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | fontana3d wrote: | | LakerLogic wrote: | | No way in hell we trade Fultz or Ball. |
Then we are not getting PG so wait till summer of 18. |
Then we likely don't get PG because we still suck and can only offer less. |
We better not suck next year or else Philly gets a top 5 pick because it will be unprotected. Do you want that? |
It doesn't matter what I want, unless we bring in a star we won't be good next season and likely not a FA destination. Again. And I don't give a crap about Philly. If our FO is making moves with Philly in mind we are screwed. |
We they were because we need assets to make trades which we didn't have any. So we have to delay giving up picks to Philly and Orlando till we recover what assets we could. So tanking the last 4 years was part of the plan, and we didn't see that. Even if I cost me my job I'll be around long enough to make sure that happens then resign. |
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2017 12:11 pm Post subject: |
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That has nothing to do with us sucking next season and not being a destination for PG.
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andree
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| Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2017 12:24 pm Post subject: |
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| fontana3d wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | fontana3d wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | fontana3d wrote: | | LakerLogic wrote: | | No way in hell we trade Fultz or Ball. |
Then we are not getting PG so wait till summer of 18. |
Then we likely don't get PG because we still suck and can only offer less. |
We better not suck next year or else Philly gets a top 5 pick because it will be unprotected. Do you want that? |
It doesn't matter what I want, unless we bring in a star we won't be good next season and likely not a FA destination. Again. And I don't give a crap about Philly. If our FO is making moves with Philly in mind we are screwed. |
We they were because we need assets to make trades which we didn't have any. So we have to delay giving up picks to Philly and Orlando till we recover what assets we could. So tanking the last 4 years was part of the plan, and we didn't see that. Even if I cost me my job I'll be around long enough to make sure that happens then resign. |
If this was the Plan in the last 4 years, I could understand the purpose but was poor executed. Kobe's extension and all the contracts.
Why didn't we make like Philly. Let the kids play and take contracts the team want to lose with picks attached. Or like Minny. They play a lot Wiggins, LaVine and Towns. The veterans were only on small contracts. Like Garnett. We need to "enjoy" Mozgov and Deng for another 3 years. |
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Ujah's Goat
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| Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2017 1:01 pm Post subject: |
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| iimarshon wrote: | | andree wrote: | | richmorgan12 wrote: | | AY2043 wrote: | If we keep our pick, I almost would rather keep everyone and risk George not coming in 2018. At most, I'd offer JC/Randle/Houston 1st/20whatever 1st or something like that.
Worst case you have Fultz/Ball,DLO, Ingram, Randle, Nance, Zu, JC all under 24 yo, with our best 3 being 19,20, and 21. And then you have the 2019 pick too.
That's one hell of a foundation. And then if he actually signs in 2018 we're a legit contender by 2020 IMO. |
I agree, except I wouldn't trade anything of value for PG. I'd only trade players I didn't want, and Bird would never accept, so there would be no trade. |
But we could look at this situation other way. If you want an Ingram or Russell you need to take also a Mozgov or Deng, it's your choice which of these useless farts would smell better to you!
Maybe we don't realise, but in the next years these two contract would cripple our situation. If the cap will be 102m, we have 32m blocked by these 2. for another 3 years. It's painful. |
If we got Lonzo I would do
Ingram
Clarkson
Tarik Black
Deng or Mozgov
Houston Pick
For
Paul George
Monta Ellis
We'd have money for FA. And we'd have Lonzo, DLo, Randle, Nance and Zubac still.
LONZO / ELLIS
DLO / ???
GEORGE / BREWER
RANDLE / NANCE
ZUBAC / ????
Sign Larry Sanders.
Sign Chris Bosh.
Sign Young to a 1-2 year deal or someone like Patty Mills or Justin Holiday |
We have no indication that a Zubac/Randle front court could work, or that D'Lo could work full time at SG. Especially Randle at PF. That team would just miss out on the playoffs or be a perennial bottom seed. Pass. |
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Ujah's Goat
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| Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2017 1:02 pm Post subject: |
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| FreakofNature wrote: | | richmorgan12 wrote: | | AY2043 wrote: | If we keep our pick, I almost would rather keep everyone and risk George not coming in 2018. At most, I'd offer JC/Randle/Houston 1st/20whatever 1st or something like that.
Worst case you have Fultz/Ball,DLO, Ingram, Randle, Nance, Zu, JC all under 24 yo, with our best 3 being 19,20, and 21. And then you have the 2019 pick too.
That's one hell of a foundation. And then if he actually signs in 2018 we're a legit contender by 2020 IMO. |
I agree, except I wouldn't trade anything of value for PG. I'd only trade players I didn't want, and Bird would never accept, so there would be no trade. |
I agree too////Plus the 27th pick jusy might be another Zubac, or at least a solid rotation guy like nance. Look at Jokic at 41, Leoanrd in the 2nd, Butler the 30th pick overall for a few examples... |
Leonard was drafted 15th. |
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tsol27
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| Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2017 1:10 pm Post subject: |
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With PG13 tanking his own value it got me wondering can we trade for PG this offseason without giving up our Top 3 pick if we keep it?
Possibly trade
Clarkson
Ingram
27th Pick
for PG
That way we have the core of
Ball
Russell
Pg13
Randle
Zubac |
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Runway8
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| Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2017 2:00 pm Post subject: |
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| Some teams rebuild for eternity. They don't rebuild from championship dynasties, they rebuild from the glory days of winning 50+ regular season games. The Pacers are one of these teams, so if history teaches you anything, when you trade for their star, it's a fading star. Remember when they dealt Dale Davis to the Blazers for Jermaine O'neal? I bet Portland wished they never did that deal. And Portland was actually going for a championship. What reason do the Lakers have for dealing any of their top prospects for George? To put George in the same spot? Best play is to wait till summer of 18 and see if he really loves LA. He signs an extension, then do you really feel bad for missing out on a guy who was just using the Lakers as leverage? |
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fontana3d
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| Posted: Sun Feb 26, 2017 2:03 pm Post subject: |
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| tsol27 wrote: | With PG13 tanking his own value it got me wondering can we trade for PG this offseason without giving up our Top 3 pick if we keep it?
Possibly trade
Clarkson
Ingram
27th Pick
for PG
That way we have the core of
Ball
Russell
Pg13
Randle
Zubac |
Well we need a bench because we would had traded away the last of our bench production. |
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pio2u
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2017 9:50 am Post subject: |
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I know folks believe in Lakers exceptionalism (including me) and the notion pg13 in 2018 is a guarantee. I'm not so sure. Having that 5th year Bird rights offer IMO wouls seal the deal. Have to give us something for something. Assuming a top 3 pick, so long as we keep 2 of Dlo/Ingram/top 3 it's worth it.
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Wildchild027
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| Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2017 10:04 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | I know folks believe in Lakers exceptionalism (including me) and the notion pg13 in 2018 is a guarantee. I'm not so sure. Having that 5th year Bird rights offer IMO wouls seal the deal. Have to give us something for something. Assuming a top 3 pick, so long as we keep 2 of Dlo/Ingram/top 3 it's worth it. |
When our own fans realize that agents run the league, there mind set will change. It's cool to believe that we have power because we can sign him in 2018, but people keep forgetting that these guys aren't always willing to throw away 30 million dollars.
Paul's agent job is to get him to a place where he wants to play, and get him his money. I would be very surprise if he doesn't do both this offseason. |
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USCandLakers
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| Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2017 10:13 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | I know folks believe in Lakers exceptionalism (including me) and the notion pg13 in 2018 is a guarantee. I'm not so sure. Having that 5th year Bird rights offer IMO wouls seal the deal. Have to give us something for something. Assuming a top 3 pick, so long as we keep 2 of Dlo/Ingram/top 3 it's worth it. |
Like it sealed the deal with Dwight?
Not trading for him is about two things, protecting yourself in case he walks, and giving him the best chance to win so he doesn't even entertain the possibility.
It would be hard surrounding him with talent even if we didn't have the MozDeng contracts.
If he doesn't sign here, then we'll still have all our assets. It's a win-win.
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vanexelent
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| Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2017 10:32 am Post subject: |
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| Wildchild027 wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | I know folks believe in Lakers exceptionalism (including me) and the notion pg13 in 2018 is a guarantee. I'm not so sure. Having that 5th year Bird rights offer IMO wouls seal the deal. Have to give us something for something. Assuming a top 3 pick, so long as we keep 2 of Dlo/Ingram/top 3 it's worth it. |
When our own fans realize that agents run the league, there mind set will change. It's cool to believe that we have power because we can sign him in 2018, but people keep forgetting that these guys aren't always willing to throw away 30 million dollars.
Paul's agent job is to get him to a place where he wants to play, and get him his money. I would be very surprise if he doesn't do both this offseason. |
That would require the Pacers to agree to an extension, just for PG to get paid and traded. That's asking a lot from the Pacers while further limiting the amount of teams who can trade for PG.
Last edited by vanexelent on Mon Feb 27, 2017 10:33 am; edited 1 time in total |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2017 10:32 am Post subject: |
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| USCandLakers wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | I know folks believe in Lakers exceptionalism (including me) and the notion pg13 in 2018 is a guarantee. I'm not so sure. Having that 5th year Bird rights offer IMO wouls seal the deal. Have to give us something for something. Assuming a top 3 pick, so long as we keep 2 of Dlo/Ingram/top 3 it's worth it. |
Like it sealed the deal with Dwight?
Not trading for him is about two things, protecting yourself in case he walks, and giving him the best chance to win so he doesn't even entertain the possibility.
It would be hard surrounding him with talent even if we didn't have the MozDeng contracts.
If he doesn't sign here, then we'll still have all our assets. It's a win-win. |
The fact you are comparing the two situations is laughable. Dwight hated playing with Kobe and the Lakers were building around an aging version of him.
If we gave up one of our top 3 assets (dlo/BI/top 3) plus likely Jc or randle, we will have 22-25m in cap space to start surrounding PG13. We can stretch Moz and Deng too if we want other pieces.
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USCandLakers
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Joined: 13 Mar 2008
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| Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2017 11:19 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | USCandLakers wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | I know folks believe in Lakers exceptionalism (including me) and the notion pg13 in 2018 is a guarantee. I'm not so sure. Having that 5th year Bird rights offer IMO wouls seal the deal. Have to give us something for something. Assuming a top 3 pick, so long as we keep 2 of Dlo/Ingram/top 3 it's worth it. |
Like it sealed the deal with Dwight?
Not trading for him is about two things, protecting yourself in case he walks, and giving him the best chance to win so he doesn't even entertain the possibility.
It would be hard surrounding him with talent even if we didn't have the MozDeng contracts.
If he doesn't sign here, then we'll still have all our assets. It's a win-win. |
The fact you are comparing the two situations is laughable. Dwight hated playing with Kobe and the Lakers were building around an aging version of him.
If we gave up one of our top 3 assets (dlo/BI/top 3) plus likely Jc or randle, we will have 22-25m in cap space to start surrounding PG13. We can stretch Moz and Deng too if we want other pieces. |
And Paul George may find that he'd prefer to play elsewhere too. The situation hasn't even formed yet, and while I doubt this current regime would make a ridiculous decision like hiring MDA, you just can't predict what type of opportunity would present itself in the summer of 18 for PG, like Houston with Dwight.
It's kinda interesting how you mention Lakers exceptionalism in regards to others, but it appears to me that banking on PG to stay in the event that we trade for him is a more pronounced form of exceptionalism, as you're implying he'd re-up because of the extra money when he's set to leave Indiana in 2018, despite the extra money they can offer him. What would be the difference between LA and Indiana in the two situations?
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2017 11:22 am Post subject: |
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| USCandLakers wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | USCandLakers wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | I know folks believe in Lakers exceptionalism (including me) and the notion pg13 in 2018 is a guarantee. I'm not so sure. Having that 5th year Bird rights offer IMO wouls seal the deal. Have to give us something for something. Assuming a top 3 pick, so long as we keep 2 of Dlo/Ingram/top 3 it's worth it. |
Like it sealed the deal with Dwight?
Not trading for him is about two things, protecting yourself in case he walks, and giving him the best chance to win so he doesn't even entertain the possibility.
It would be hard surrounding him with talent even if we didn't have the MozDeng contracts.
If he doesn't sign here, then we'll still have all our assets. It's a win-win. |
The fact you are comparing the two situations is laughable. Dwight hated playing with Kobe and the Lakers were building around an aging version of him.
If we gave up one of our top 3 assets (dlo/BI/top 3) plus likely Jc or randle, we will have 22-25m in cap space to start surrounding PG13. We can stretch Moz and Deng too if we want other pieces. |
And Paul George may find that he'd prefer to play elsewhere too. The situation hasn't even formed yet, and while I doubt this current regime would make a ridiculous decision like hiring MDA, you just can't predict what type of opportunity would present itself in the summer of 18 for PG, like Houston with Dwight.
It's kinda interesting how you mention Lakers exceptionalism in regards to others, but it appears to me that banking on PG to stay in the event that we trade for him is a more pronounced form of exceptionalism, as you're implying he'd re-up because of the extra money when he's set to leave Indiana in 2018, despite the extra money they can offer him. What would be the difference between LA and Indiana in the two situations? |
No. My point is the team that Bird rights on a max level player traditionally has the upper hand. Given that his camp has taken the exceptional step of informing teams he will join the Lakers put 1 + 1 together.
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venturalakersfan
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Location: The Gold Coast
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| Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2017 11:25 am Post subject: |
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| Wildchild027 wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | I know folks believe in Lakers exceptionalism (including me) and the notion pg13 in 2018 is a guarantee. I'm not so sure. Having that 5th year Bird rights offer IMO wouls seal the deal. Have to give us something for something. Assuming a top 3 pick, so long as we keep 2 of Dlo/Ingram/top 3 it's worth it. |
When our own fans realize that agents run the league, there mind set will change. It's cool to believe that we have power because we can sign him in 2018, but people keep forgetting that these guys aren't always willing to throw away 30 million dollars.
Paul's agent job is to get him to a place where he wants to play, and get him his money. I would be very surprise if he doesn't do both this offseason. |
And the place where he can get the most money, and a place he has said he wants to play, is Indy. At least for next season.
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2017 11:27 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | USCandLakers wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | I know folks believe in Lakers exceptionalism (including me) and the notion pg13 in 2018 is a guarantee. I'm not so sure. Having that 5th year Bird rights offer IMO wouls seal the deal. Have to give us something for something. Assuming a top 3 pick, so long as we keep 2 of Dlo/Ingram/top 3 it's worth it. |
Like it sealed the deal with Dwight?
Not trading for him is about two things, protecting yourself in case he walks, and giving him the best chance to win so he doesn't even entertain the possibility.
It would be hard surrounding him with talent even if we didn't have the MozDeng contracts.
If he doesn't sign here, then we'll still have all our assets. It's a win-win. |
The fact you are comparing the two situations is laughable. Dwight hated playing with Kobe and the Lakers were building around an aging version of him.
If we gave up one of our top 3 assets (dlo/BI/top 3) plus likely Jc or randle, we will have 22-25m in cap space to start surrounding PG13. We can stretch Moz and Deng too if we want other pieces. |
Again, why would Bird want Randle with Turner there? I could see him wanting Zubac instead.
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2017 11:28 am Post subject: |
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| USCandLakers wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | USCandLakers wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | I know folks believe in Lakers exceptionalism (including me) and the notion pg13 in 2018 is a guarantee. I'm not so sure. Having that 5th year Bird rights offer IMO wouls seal the deal. Have to give us something for something. Assuming a top 3 pick, so long as we keep 2 of Dlo/Ingram/top 3 it's worth it. |
Like it sealed the deal with Dwight?
Not trading for him is about two things, protecting yourself in case he walks, and giving him the best chance to win so he doesn't even entertain the possibility.
It would be hard surrounding him with talent even if we didn't have the MozDeng contracts.
If he doesn't sign here, then we'll still have all our assets. It's a win-win. |
The fact you are comparing the two situations is laughable. Dwight hated playing with Kobe and the Lakers were building around an aging version of him.
If we gave up one of our top 3 assets (dlo/BI/top 3) plus likely Jc or randle, we will have 22-25m in cap space to start surrounding PG13. We can stretch Moz and Deng too if we want other pieces. |
And Paul George may find that he'd prefer to play elsewhere too. The situation hasn't even formed yet, and while I doubt this current regime would make a ridiculous decision like hiring MDA, you just can't predict what type of opportunity would present itself in the summer of 18 for PG, like Houston with Dwight.
It's kinda interesting how you mention Lakers exceptionalism in regards to others, but it appears to me that banking on PG to stay in the event that we trade for him is a more pronounced form of exceptionalism, as you're implying he'd re-up because of the extra money when he's set to leave Indiana in 2018, despite the extra money they can offer him. What would be the difference between LA and Indiana in the two situations? |
Howard is a carpetbagger, he really can't be compared to a normal NBA star. He seems to dislike everywhere he has been.
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