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venturalakersfan
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 Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2017 11:29 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | USCandLakers wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | USCandLakers wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | I know folks believe in Lakers exceptionalism (including me) and the notion pg13 in 2018 is a guarantee. I'm not so sure. Having that 5th year Bird rights offer IMO wouls seal the deal. Have to give us something for something. Assuming a top 3 pick, so long as we keep 2 of Dlo/Ingram/top 3 it's worth it. |
Like it sealed the deal with Dwight?
Not trading for him is about two things, protecting yourself in case he walks, and giving him the best chance to win so he doesn't even entertain the possibility.
It would be hard surrounding him with talent even if we didn't have the MozDeng contracts.
If he doesn't sign here, then we'll still have all our assets. It's a win-win. |
The fact you are comparing the two situations is laughable. Dwight hated playing with Kobe and the Lakers were building around an aging version of him.
If we gave up one of our top 3 assets (dlo/BI/top 3) plus likely Jc or randle, we will have 22-25m in cap space to start surrounding PG13. We can stretch Moz and Deng too if we want other pieces. |
And Paul George may find that he'd prefer to play elsewhere too. The situation hasn't even formed yet, and while I doubt this current regime would make a ridiculous decision like hiring MDA, you just can't predict what type of opportunity would present itself in the summer of 18 for PG, like Houston with Dwight.
It's kinda interesting how you mention Lakers exceptionalism in regards to others, but it appears to me that banking on PG to stay in the event that we trade for him is a more pronounced form of exceptionalism, as you're implying he'd re-up because of the extra money when he's set to leave Indiana in 2018, despite the extra money they can offer him. What would be the difference between LA and Indiana in the two situations? |
No. My point is the team that Bird rights on a max level player traditionally has the upper hand. Given that his camp has taken the exceptional step of informing teams he will join the Lakers put 1 + 1 together. |
And putting 1 and 1 together, PG doesn't want to be traded while the possibility of the DPE is in Indy. Same with Cousins.
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2017 11:30 am Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | USCandLakers wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | USCandLakers wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | I know folks believe in Lakers exceptionalism (including me) and the notion pg13 in 2018 is a guarantee. I'm not so sure. Having that 5th year Bird rights offer IMO wouls seal the deal. Have to give us something for something. Assuming a top 3 pick, so long as we keep 2 of Dlo/Ingram/top 3 it's worth it. |
Like it sealed the deal with Dwight?
Not trading for him is about two things, protecting yourself in case he walks, and giving him the best chance to win so he doesn't even entertain the possibility.
It would be hard surrounding him with talent even if we didn't have the MozDeng contracts.
If he doesn't sign here, then we'll still have all our assets. It's a win-win. |
The fact you are comparing the two situations is laughable. Dwight hated playing with Kobe and the Lakers were building around an aging version of him.
If we gave up one of our top 3 assets (dlo/BI/top 3) plus likely Jc or randle, we will have 22-25m in cap space to start surrounding PG13. We can stretch Moz and Deng too if we want other pieces. |
And Paul George may find that he'd prefer to play elsewhere too. The situation hasn't even formed yet, and while I doubt this current regime would make a ridiculous decision like hiring MDA, you just can't predict what type of opportunity would present itself in the summer of 18 for PG, like Houston with Dwight.
It's kinda interesting how you mention Lakers exceptionalism in regards to others, but it appears to me that banking on PG to stay in the event that we trade for him is a more pronounced form of exceptionalism, as you're implying he'd re-up because of the extra money when he's set to leave Indiana in 2018, despite the extra money they can offer him. What would be the difference between LA and Indiana in the two situations? |
No. My point is the team that Bird rights on a max level player traditionally has the upper hand. Given that his camp has taken the exceptional step of informing teams he will join the Lakers put 1 + 1 together. |
And putting 1 and 1 together, PG doesn't want to be traded while the possibility of the DPE is in Indy. Same with Cousins. |
And putting 1 and 1 together he's not making all NBA this season. Pacers likely have to move him this summer. So yeah.
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Krispy Kreme
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| Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2017 11:33 am Post subject: |
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I don't think PG is a franchise leading superstar (ala westbrook, Durant, LBJ, etc) but we need to start somewhere, and i think he makes other players better.
I'd take him as the 1st step in revamping this team. But I am concerned about his injuries.
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USCandLakers
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| Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2017 11:38 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | USCandLakers wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | USCandLakers wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | I know folks believe in Lakers exceptionalism (including me) and the notion pg13 in 2018 is a guarantee. I'm not so sure. Having that 5th year Bird rights offer IMO wouls seal the deal. Have to give us something for something. Assuming a top 3 pick, so long as we keep 2 of Dlo/Ingram/top 3 it's worth it. |
Like it sealed the deal with Dwight?
Not trading for him is about two things, protecting yourself in case he walks, and giving him the best chance to win so he doesn't even entertain the possibility.
It would be hard surrounding him with talent even if we didn't have the MozDeng contracts.
If he doesn't sign here, then we'll still have all our assets. It's a win-win. |
The fact you are comparing the two situations is laughable. Dwight hated playing with Kobe and the Lakers were building around an aging version of him.
If we gave up one of our top 3 assets (dlo/BI/top 3) plus likely Jc or randle, we will have 22-25m in cap space to start surrounding PG13. We can stretch Moz and Deng too if we want other pieces. |
And Paul George may find that he'd prefer to play elsewhere too. The situation hasn't even formed yet, and while I doubt this current regime would make a ridiculous decision like hiring MDA, you just can't predict what type of opportunity would present itself in the summer of 18 for PG, like Houston with Dwight.
It's kinda interesting how you mention Lakers exceptionalism in regards to others, but it appears to me that banking on PG to stay in the event that we trade for him is a more pronounced form of exceptionalism, as you're implying he'd re-up because of the extra money when he's set to leave Indiana in 2018, despite the extra money they can offer him. What would be the difference between LA and Indiana in the two situations? |
No. My point is the team that Bird rights on a max level player traditionally has the upper hand. Given that his camp has taken the exceptional step of informing teams he will join the Lakers put 1 + 1 together. |
Going off the same reports, he doesn't want us to gut the team trading for him. He wants to sign with us in 2018. Given how little we actually have, trading any of DLO/Ingram/top 3 would be gutting the team.
You trade for him and one of our main guys tears his achilles like Kobe did, do you still expect PG to re-sign? What if we're worse than his current Pacer team, as bad as the Knicks? What if he has the opportunity to sign with a super team? You just can't predict what's going to happen in that year, and trading for him feels like going all-in in a way that we should have just learned is what we should avoid, not when there is a safer path.
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adkindo
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| Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2017 11:49 am Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | USCandLakers wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | USCandLakers wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | I know folks believe in Lakers exceptionalism (including me) and the notion pg13 in 2018 is a guarantee. I'm not so sure. Having that 5th year Bird rights offer IMO wouls seal the deal. Have to give us something for something. Assuming a top 3 pick, so long as we keep 2 of Dlo/Ingram/top 3 it's worth it. |
Like it sealed the deal with Dwight?
Not trading for him is about two things, protecting yourself in case he walks, and giving him the best chance to win so he doesn't even entertain the possibility.
It would be hard surrounding him with talent even if we didn't have the MozDeng contracts.
If he doesn't sign here, then we'll still have all our assets. It's a win-win. |
The fact you are comparing the two situations is laughable. Dwight hated playing with Kobe and the Lakers were building around an aging version of him.
If we gave up one of our top 3 assets (dlo/BI/top 3) plus likely Jc or randle, we will have 22-25m in cap space to start surrounding PG13. We can stretch Moz and Deng too if we want other pieces. |
And Paul George may find that he'd prefer to play elsewhere too. The situation hasn't even formed yet, and while I doubt this current regime would make a ridiculous decision like hiring MDA, you just can't predict what type of opportunity would present itself in the summer of 18 for PG, like Houston with Dwight.
It's kinda interesting how you mention Lakers exceptionalism in regards to others, but it appears to me that banking on PG to stay in the event that we trade for him is a more pronounced form of exceptionalism, as you're implying he'd re-up because of the extra money when he's set to leave Indiana in 2018, despite the extra money they can offer him. What would be the difference between LA and Indiana in the two situations? |
No. My point is the team that Bird rights on a max level player traditionally has the upper hand. Given that his camp has taken the exceptional step of informing teams he will join the Lakers put 1 + 1 together. |
And putting 1 and 1 together, PG doesn't want to be traded while the possibility of the DPE is in Indy. Same with Cousins. |
That is probably true, but supposedly Bird is willing to bet he makes ALL NBA next season, and he will stay if the DPE is on the table. I think there is some risk, but it is a risk worth taking to wait until he is a FA. We do not have enough young assets to trade them away considering our cap space over next few years will only allow one large addition. I hope our FO remains smart this year, and realizes the Lakers likely hold the leverage, and patience will likely pay off. Trading off any of our young assets to acquire George this summer is likely a path the mediocrity. |
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2017 11:52 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: |
And putting 1 and 1 together he's not making all NBA this season. Pacers likely have to move him this summer. So yeah. |
Bird could trade him against his wishes (ala Cousins) but that is the last thing he wants. All his actions point toward him wanting to remain a Pacer and go for that DPE.
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2017 11:56 am Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: |
And putting 1 and 1 together he's not making all NBA this season. Pacers likely have to move him this summer. So yeah. |
Bird could trade him against his wishes (ala Cousins) but that is the last thing he wants. All his actions point toward him wanting to remain a Pacer and go for that DPE. |
He can want that but if he doesn't make the all NBA team (highly unlikely this year) he will be moved.
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2017 11:57 am Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: |
And putting 1 and 1 together he's not making all NBA this season. Pacers likely have to move him this summer. So yeah. |
Bird could trade him against his wishes (ala Cousins) but that is the last thing he wants. All his actions point toward him wanting to remain a Pacer and go for that DPE. |
Unlike boogie was by all accounts a team cancer pg13 isn't. Bird wanted better assets than the equivalent of buddy Hield a middling 1st rounder
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Runway8
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| Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2017 12:01 pm Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | I know folks believe in Lakers exceptionalism (including me) and the notion pg13 in 2018 is a guarantee. I'm not so sure. Having that 5th year Bird rights offer IMO wouls seal the deal. Have to give us something for something. Assuming a top 3 pick, so long as we keep 2 of Dlo/Ingram/top 3 it's worth it. |
Randle/Clarkson and Rockets pick. Or, wait it out.
I'm so NOT enamored with PG13. The thought of Brandon Ingram or Russell blowing up, while we're stuck with a fading PG13 is not good. We get PG13 on the up for a couple of years, but the down will come sooner than Laker fans want to think about. I'm a stickler for timing and age. And i don't see Paul George in the MJ/Kobe/Lebron class, history has shown you need to be in that class to dominate in your 30's. Everyone else just fades, and Paul George falls in the everyone else category. What's the fascination with him? Is it this home town kid romanticism? 23 pts is his career high and that's without any sidekick. The greats should be around 28 pts to 32 pts solo. He's much more selective than Kobe with his shots, yet he shoots poorer than prime Kobe.
Randle/Clarkson and Houston pick, or wait. And if he leaves money on the table to come home, then you know you got someone special who wants to be here. If not, then you didn't miss out on much. |
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adkindo
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| Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2017 12:03 pm Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: |
And putting 1 and 1 together he's not making all NBA this season. Pacers likely have to move him this summer. So yeah. |
Bird could trade him against his wishes (ala Cousins) but that is the last thing he wants. All his actions point toward him wanting to remain a Pacer and go for that DPE. |
Unlike boogie was by all accounts a team cancer pg13 isn't. Bird wanted better assets than the equivalent of buddy Hield a middling 1st rounder |
One report I heard was Bird wanted Bradley, Crowder and one of the Brooklyn pick or Jaylen Brown, and he was firm without expectation for him to diminish his demands this summer. We cannot offer a package like that....even Boston would not offer that for George or even Butler. |
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2017 1:25 pm Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: |
And putting 1 and 1 together he's not making all NBA this season. Pacers likely have to move him this summer. So yeah. |
Bird could trade him against his wishes (ala Cousins) but that is the last thing he wants. All his actions point toward him wanting to remain a Pacer and go for that DPE. |
He can want that but if he doesn't make the all NBA team (highly unlikely this year) he will be moved. |
Thanks Larry.
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venturalakersfan
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| Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2017 1:27 pm Post subject: |
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| USCandLakers wrote: |
Going off the same reports, he doesn't want us to gut the team trading for him. He wants to sign with us in 2018. Given how little we actually have, trading any of DLO/Ingram/top 3 would be gutting the team.
You trade for him and one of our main guys tears his achilles like Kobe did, do you still expect PG to re-sign? What if we're worse than his current Pacer team, as bad as the Knicks? What if he has the opportunity to sign with a super team? You just can't predict what's going to happen in that year, and trading for him feels like going all-in in a way that we should have just learned is what we should avoid, not when there is a safer path. |
So George using the Lakers as a way to scare off the Celtics is thought of as gospel here?
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2017 1:48 pm Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: |
And putting 1 and 1 together he's not making all NBA this season. Pacers likely have to move him this summer. So yeah. |
Bird could trade him against his wishes (ala Cousins) but that is the last thing he wants. All his actions point toward him wanting to remain a Pacer and go for that DPE. |
He can want that but if he doesn't make the all NBA team (highly unlikely this year) he will be moved. |
Thanks Larry. |
You're welcome. Sincerely, common sense.
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pio2u
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| Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2017 1:56 pm Post subject: |
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IMO Indy doesn't have the assets to put a contender together in short order. PG will get traded to some team before or during next season.
We don't need to trade for him because we are sitting in the cat-bird seat.  |
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tox
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| Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2017 2:16 pm Post subject: |
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| USCandLakers wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | I know folks believe in Lakers exceptionalism (including me) and the notion pg13 in 2018 is a guarantee. I'm not so sure. Having that 5th year Bird rights offer IMO wouls seal the deal. Have to give us something for something. Assuming a top 3 pick, so long as we keep 2 of Dlo/Ingram/top 3 it's worth it. |
Like it sealed the deal with Dwight?
Not trading for him is about two things, protecting yourself in case he walks, and giving him the best chance to win so he doesn't even entertain the possibility.
It would be hard surrounding him with talent even if we didn't have the MozDeng contracts.
If he doesn't sign here, then we'll still have all our assets. It's a win-win. |
preach |
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ahaider
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| Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2017 3:23 pm Post subject: |
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I think PG13 would pair really well with Ingram and D'Lo. That said, I'm willing to offer a lot less than most posters for PG13. He still has to opt out to sign a new deal so we're still incurring risk.
He may come to LA change his mind and go join the Clippers or some other team. So my best offer is probably Randle + Clarkson + Rockets pick.
Anything more than that - I think we'd be getting robbed.
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Chase.button07
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| Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2017 3:35 pm Post subject: |
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he is going to be an expirer. After getting burnt by Howard, my preference is to get him for Randle+ houston pick
not even offering clarkson |
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dcarter4kobe
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| Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2017 3:40 pm Post subject: |
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| Quote: | | I guarantee you he feels a lot better now because Magic is there. The problem they had before, these guys like Russell Westbrook and Paul George who grew up Lakers fans, they would see the purple and gold logo and the Staples Center, then they would see Jim Buss in an arena or on a picture on the Internet and they would just kind of go ‘Oh boy.’ He just doesn’t have a resume |
Sam Amick on Paul George and the Lakers
http://sacramento.cbslocal.com/2017/02/23/sam-amick-joins-the-lo-down-223/
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adkindo
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| Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2017 3:40 pm Post subject: |
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| Chase.button07 wrote: | he is going to be an expirer. After getting burnt by Howard, my preference is to get him for Randle+ houston pick
not even offering clarkson |
have to at least add in Clarkson or Brewer for salary match...and Larry is not going to have the stain of Randle, Brewer and the 27th pick for PG-13 on his legacy. I agree with you....not depleting talented pieces to get someone that we are likely to sign next summer without giving up any assets.....then maybe we consider moving something to pair with him once he is in house if we feel we need to. |
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adkindo
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| Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2017 3:43 pm Post subject: |
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| dcarter4kobe wrote: | | Quote: | | I guarantee you he feels a lot better now because Magic is there. The problem they had before, these guys like Russell Westbrook and Paul George who grew up Lakers fans, they would see the purple and gold logo and the Staples Center, then they would see Jim Buss in an arena or on a picture on the Internet and they would just kind of go ‘Oh boy.’ He just doesn’t have a resume |
Sam Amick on Paul George and the Lakers
http://sacramento.cbslocal.com/2017/02/23/sam-amick-joins-the-lo-down-223/ |
I like Amick a lot....he has always been a fairly straight forward guy in my opinion, but he has always been very pro Jeanie throughout the civil war in the Lakers FO....maybe that is irrelevant, but it probably does not hinder him from praising the benefits on new FO |
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Chase.button07
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| Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2017 3:54 pm Post subject: |
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| adkindo wrote: | | Chase.button07 wrote: | he is going to be an expirer. After getting burnt by Howard, my preference is to get him for Randle+ houston pick
not even offering clarkson |
have to at least add in Clarkson or Brewer for salary match...and Larry is not going to have the stain of Randle, Brewer and the 27th pick for PG-13 on his legacy. I agree with you....not depleting talented pieces to get someone that we are likely to sign next summer without giving up any assets.....then maybe we consider moving something to pair with him once he is in house if we feel we need to. |
ya add in salary filler. 3 pieces i am against trading for a PG13 rental are: top 3 pick, Ingram and DLO = all franchise player potential |
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vanexelent
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| Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2017 4:16 pm Post subject: |
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| adkindo wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: |
And putting 1 and 1 together he's not making all NBA this season. Pacers likely have to move him this summer. So yeah. |
Bird could trade him against his wishes (ala Cousins) but that is the last thing he wants. All his actions point toward him wanting to remain a Pacer and go for that DPE. |
Unlike boogie was by all accounts a team cancer pg13 isn't. Bird wanted better assets than the equivalent of buddy Hield a middling 1st rounder |
One report I heard was Bird wanted Bradley, Crowder and one of the Brooklyn pick or Jaylen Brown, and he was firm without expectation for him to diminish his demands this summer. We cannot offer a package like that....even Boston would not offer that for George or even Butler. |
And if Boston lands a top 3 pick (Brooklyn swap), then they will have even more leverage. As many have pointed out, this is a Point Guard heavy draft and they don't need a Point Guard. |
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ahaider
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| Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2017 4:45 pm Post subject: |
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| vanexelent wrote: | | adkindo wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: |
And putting 1 and 1 together he's not making all NBA this season. Pacers likely have to move him this summer. So yeah. |
Bird could trade him against his wishes (ala Cousins) but that is the last thing he wants. All his actions point toward him wanting to remain a Pacer and go for that DPE. |
Unlike boogie was by all accounts a team cancer pg13 isn't. Bird wanted better assets than the equivalent of buddy Hield a middling 1st rounder |
One report I heard was Bird wanted Bradley, Crowder and one of the Brooklyn pick or Jaylen Brown, and he was firm without expectation for him to diminish his demands this summer. We cannot offer a package like that....even Boston would not offer that for George or even Butler. |
And if Boston lands a top 3 pick (Brooklyn swap), then they will have even more leverage. As many have pointed out, this is a Point Guard heavy draft and they don't need a Point Guard. |
Exactly why we shouldn't get in any kind of bidding war for PG13. It's not a war we're going to win, and assuming we do - all the assets we'll have traded for PG13 will make it incredibly difficult if not impossible to win a ring.
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FreakofNature
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| Posted: Mon Feb 27, 2017 7:50 pm Post subject: |
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Real fan of PG-13. Loved the idea of Westbrook coming to lakerland, The Greek freak, both look lost for us, still in hopes for PG-13, but..........
If we bring in that top 3 pick, especially a top 2 pick ball or Fultz, have one of these guys join DLO/BI/randle/Zub/nance/Clarkson I think I stay pat and do not give up a Ingram and randle, or that top pick and Randle. I just hope he comes in 18 as a FA., if not he shows where his bread is buttered, and may the wind be behind him.... |
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Wildchild027
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| Posted: Tue Feb 28, 2017 6:38 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | venturalakersfan wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: |
And putting 1 and 1 together he's not making all NBA this season. Pacers likely have to move him this summer. So yeah. |
Bird could trade him against his wishes (ala Cousins) but that is the last thing he wants. All his actions point toward him wanting to remain a Pacer and go for that DPE. |
He can want that but if he doesn't make the all NBA team (highly unlikely this year) he will be moved. |
Thanks Larry. |
You're welcome. Sincerely, common sense. |
It's amazing how few people use common sense, You have people on here thinking that the Celtics will trade their Top 3 pick for Paul George. I guess they don't know that the Celtics can draft Fultz/Ball or Jackson, and still sign someone like Hayward or MIlsap.
And people using the Dwight Howard crutch are reaching too. Howard is the only player ever trade to another team that didn't take the 5 year max deal the next summer.
Deron Williams signed with the Nets. Carmelo sign with Knicks. Kevin Love sign with the Cavs. Batum signed with the Hornets. Ibaka is very likely to sign with the Raptors, and Cousins very likely to sign with the Pelicians, but let's keep using Howard as the rule, and not the exception to the rule.
I guess we can also blame management because Sacre didn't turn into Isaish Thomas, since both were the last pick in the draft. |
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