Lakers miss out on Cousins, Butler, George, whats happens now?
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tox
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2017 5:29 pm    Post subject:

mhan00 wrote:
Runway8 wrote:
P.K. wrote:
Deathstroke wrote:
P.K. wrote:
What happens now, you ask?

same thing that was happening before. We have some talented young guys we've built through the draft. They're collecting more picks to try to build even more.

Rebuilds typically take 3-5 years. We're really still in year 1.

we keep on keeping on and see what else becomes available to build with.


We are not in year 1 of the rebuild.

in reality, yes we are
NOTHING, absolutely nothing, done during Randle's wasted broken leg year or during the final year of the KFT disaster were helping with a rebuild. Yeah, we got picks, but other than that - nothing


Tell that to Jeannie. Because apparently Mitch and Jim lost their jobs because we're supposed to be contending.


Jim Buss promised we'd be contending. He said he would step down if we weren't. Well, we aren't, and he wasn't stepping down. If he wasn't man enough to keep to his word, that's his problem. Him getting fired was the right move. It sucks that Mitch had to go with him, but them's the breaks and he also contributed in some capacity to the worst four year stretch in Laker history.

I don't understand. If it's Mitch's fault for contributing to the worst four year stretch in Laker history, then what is Magic doing right now? He's continuing along the same exact plan that Mitch (who apparently (bleep) up?) was taking, i.e. riding with the young guys? Shouldn't Magic be doing something different? Maybe trading for PG13, for example?
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2017 5:30 pm    Post subject:

venturalakersfan wrote:
Runway8 wrote:
venturalakersfan wrote:
socalsp3 wrote:
why trade for a superstar when you are trying to tank to get a pick. I think they try to get PG13 again in the summer when they know if they have the top 3 pick. But the laker brass will make a priority to have an Laker allstar before the start of next season since the allstar game will be in LA next year.


Is the bolded serious? A superstar in the hand is worth 100 draft picks in the bush. Especially when the chances are that we do not get that draft pick. So you pass on a superstar for a chance to win the lottery?

As for the OP, we continue to develop the young players and they try to win every game they can. Then we re-assess things in the offseason.


You'd make a good PR for the Lakers. They just fired Black.

Meanwhile, in the Tank-Lab, Lakers just traded away Lou for more of those picks in the bush. But I get your message bro, gotta keep up the appearance.


If you would prefer a draft pick over a superstar then you need to go nowhere near a FO.


It's better to get both. There is no rush to get PG. He is not going anywhere. Get PG now and you might lose the pick.
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2017 5:35 pm    Post subject:

tox wrote:
mhan00 wrote:
Runway8 wrote:
P.K. wrote:
Deathstroke wrote:
P.K. wrote:
What happens now, you ask?

same thing that was happening before. We have some talented young guys we've built through the draft. They're collecting more picks to try to build even more.

Rebuilds typically take 3-5 years. We're really still in year 1.

we keep on keeping on and see what else becomes available to build with.


We are not in year 1 of the rebuild.

in reality, yes we are
NOTHING, absolutely nothing, done during Randle's wasted broken leg year or during the final year of the KFT disaster were helping with a rebuild. Yeah, we got picks, but other than that - nothing


Tell that to Jeannie. Because apparently Mitch and Jim lost their jobs because we're supposed to be contending.


Jim Buss promised we'd be contending. He said he would step down if we weren't. Well, we aren't, and he wasn't stepping down. If he wasn't man enough to keep to his word, that's his problem. Him getting fired was the right move. It sucks that Mitch had to go with him, but them's the breaks and he also contributed in some capacity to the worst four year stretch in Laker history.

I don't understand. If it's Mitch's fault for contributing to the worst four year stretch in Laker history, then what is Magic doing right now? He's continuing along the same exact plan that Mitch (who apparently (bleep) up?) was taking, i.e. riding with the young guys? Shouldn't Magic be doing something different? Maybe trading for PG13, for example?


What Mitch and Jim messed up on was getting FAs. Magic is here to get FA. He's a better salesman than who he replaced. The formula for success is still the draft, like GSW. You still need get picks. You add on FA to put you over the top later. You don't deplete draft assets to trade for stars when you don't have a team. See where the nets are now after mortgaging their future for stars.


Last edited by socalsp3 on Thu Feb 23, 2017 5:37 pm; edited 1 time in total
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2017 5:36 pm    Post subject:

tox wrote:
mhan00 wrote:
Runway8 wrote:
P.K. wrote:
Deathstroke wrote:
P.K. wrote:
What happens now, you ask?

same thing that was happening before. We have some talented young guys we've built through the draft. They're collecting more picks to try to build even more.

Rebuilds typically take 3-5 years. We're really still in year 1.

we keep on keeping on and see what else becomes available to build with.


We are not in year 1 of the rebuild.

in reality, yes we are
NOTHING, absolutely nothing, done during Randle's wasted broken leg year or during the final year of the KFT disaster were helping with a rebuild. Yeah, we got picks, but other than that - nothing


Tell that to Jeannie. Because apparently Mitch and Jim lost their jobs because we're supposed to be contending.


Jim Buss promised we'd be contending. He said he would step down if we weren't. Well, we aren't, and he wasn't stepping down. If he wasn't man enough to keep to his word, that's his problem. Him getting fired was the right move. It sucks that Mitch had to go with him, but them's the breaks and he also contributed in some capacity to the worst four year stretch in Laker history.

I don't understand. If it's Mitch's fault for contributing to the worst four year stretch in Laker history, then what is Magic doing right now? He's continuing along the same exact plan that Mitch (who apparently (bleep) up?) was taking, i.e. riding with the young guys? Shouldn't Magic be doing something different? Maybe trading for PG13, for example?

This is exactly why I thought a PG deadline trade was plausible even if he we gutted our team. If we're sticking with the same plan why did we hire Magic? And if you're going to say because we signed Deng and Moz why didn't we fire Mitch and Jim when it was clear they weren't worth their buck?
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2017 5:38 pm    Post subject:

This "missing out" topic...
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2017 5:52 pm    Post subject:

socalsp3 wrote:

What Mitch and Jim messed up on was getting FAs. Magic is here to get FA. He's a better salesman than who he replaced. The formula for success is still the draft, like GSW. You still need get picks. You add on FA to put you over the top later. You don't deplete draft assets to trade for stars when you don't have a team. See where the nets are now after mortgaging their future for stars.
But the person I'm responding to isn't just saying "Yeah well they should've done better in FA." Rather, they're saying "Well sucks he had to go but it's his fault partially for them being bottom-2 in wins the last 4 years." But that was inevitable if you're going for a youth rebuild along with a washed up Kobe. A lot of the moves that they missed, like not signing Bazemore or Ed Davis, wouldn't suddenly make them a playoff contender, even if they are good moves.

If the argument is this reductive "Well we need to win more, 2nd-to-last in 3+ years is unacceptable" then how is going with the youthcore rebuild over getting a bona fide blue chipper in Paul George any different? In fact, he just traded away Lou Williams for even more losses?
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2017 6:00 pm    Post subject:

KBH wrote:
adkindo wrote:
King Randle wrote:
Wait for George to come here in the summer of 2018.


horrible idea....control what you can control, and maintain flexibility. Try to draft a PG-13....look for gems in the undrafted pile....clear cap space if possible....be open to opportunistic trades...expedite youth development as much as they can handle. Again, Control what you can control, and stop waiting on someone to save us.

Just my opinion


This. Pragmatism with strategic aggressive moves is the way to go.


Does everyone remember why the Dwight Howard signing and release was so unusual? Because a majority of the time players are not unsigned going into the last year of their contract, no GM would keep their job if they didn't pester the superstar into signing an extension when they are of elite value in free agency, its business 101 if you have a commodity that's of highest value then you can bet that its also in the highest demand
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2017 6:10 pm    Post subject:

Missed out on all of them but kept all of our youth. We get PG for free next year so it was all good.
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2017 6:15 pm    Post subject:

tox wrote:
socalsp3 wrote:

What Mitch and Jim messed up on was getting FAs. Magic is here to get FA. He's a better salesman than who he replaced. The formula for success is still the draft, like GSW. You still need get picks. You add on FA to put you over the top later. You don't deplete draft assets to trade for stars when you don't have a team. See where the nets are now after mortgaging their future for stars.

I will be waiting to see how good Magic is with recruiting FA then. The problem was we finished with the 2nd worst record in NBA. It was not about how good the salesperson was.
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2017 6:16 pm    Post subject:

The Logo wrote:
tox wrote:
mhan00 wrote:
Runway8 wrote:
P.K. wrote:
Deathstroke wrote:
P.K. wrote:
What happens now, you ask?

same thing that was happening before. We have some talented young guys we've built through the draft. They're collecting more picks to try to build even more.

Rebuilds typically take 3-5 years. We're really still in year 1.

we keep on keeping on and see what else becomes available to build with.


We are not in year 1 of the rebuild.

in reality, yes we are
NOTHING, absolutely nothing, done during Randle's wasted broken leg year or during the final year of the KFT disaster were helping with a rebuild. Yeah, we got picks, but other than that - nothing


Tell that to Jeannie. Because apparently Mitch and Jim lost their jobs because we're supposed to be contending.


Jim Buss promised we'd be contending. He said he would step down if we weren't. Well, we aren't, and he wasn't stepping down. If he wasn't man enough to keep to his word, that's his problem. Him getting fired was the right move. It sucks that Mitch had to go with him, but them's the breaks and he also contributed in some capacity to the worst four year stretch in Laker history.

I don't understand. If it's Mitch's fault for contributing to the worst four year stretch in Laker history, then what is Magic doing right now? He's continuing along the same exact plan that Mitch (who apparently (bleep) up?) was taking, i.e. riding with the young guys? Shouldn't Magic be doing something different? Maybe trading for PG13, for example?

This is exactly why I thought a PG deadline trade was plausible even if he we gutted our team. If we're sticking with the same plan why did we hire Magic? And if you're going to say because we signed Deng and Moz why didn't we fire Mitch and Jim when it was clear they weren't worth their buck?


Because Jeanie wanted to give Moz and Deng enough time to prove themselves. You don't call them busts after just a few games. I think she did the right thing being very lenient to her brother.

You have to understand that the longer we wait on PG, the better the deal we will get. If we wait long enough until his contract expires, we might even get him for free. Getting him this year not only would cost us a lot but also will jeopadize our ability to tank. So not doing anything is a very smart move here.
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2017 6:54 pm    Post subject:

Yeah its a smart move, but not by design, if we had a serious legitimate chance to get PG you don't hesitate, to protect a pick, that would be playing not to lose instead of playing to win, ala the Shark, yes I agree the move to get the 27th pick and Brewer may seem like "stink-tank" on the surface but Magic knows what he is doing, that 27th pick is highly valuable in this off season when we have a crack as some superstar free agents

http://www.spotrac.com/nba/free-agents/
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2017 7:03 pm    Post subject:

LakerFan1977 wrote:
KBH wrote:
adkindo wrote:
King Randle wrote:
Wait for George to come here in the summer of 2018.


horrible idea....control what you can control, and maintain flexibility. Try to draft a PG-13....look for gems in the undrafted pile....clear cap space if possible....be open to opportunistic trades...expedite youth development as much as they can handle. Again, Control what you can control, and stop waiting on someone to save us.

Just my opinion


This. Pragmatism with strategic aggressive moves is the way to go.


Does everyone remember why the Dwight Howard signing and release was so unusual? Because a majority of the time players are not unsigned going into the last year of their contract, no GM would keep their job if they didn't pester the superstar into signing an extension when they are of elite value in free agency, its business 101 if you have a commodity that's of highest value then you can bet that its also in the highest demand


You can't "pester" into signing a contract if they don't want to sign it. A lot of superstars these days wait to see what their team does before they sign an extension.
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2017 7:08 pm    Post subject:

I could totally see Cousins becoming avaible on draft night...Davis & Cousins pairing is bad and they will be out of play-offs by 4 games today.
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2017 7:29 pm    Post subject:

LakerFan1977 wrote:
KBH wrote:
adkindo wrote:
King Randle wrote:
Wait for George to come here in the summer of 2018.


horrible idea....control what you can control, and maintain flexibility. Try to draft a PG-13....look for gems in the undrafted pile....clear cap space if possible....be open to opportunistic trades...expedite youth development as much as they can handle. Again, Control what you can control, and stop waiting on someone to save us.

Just my opinion


This. Pragmatism with strategic aggressive moves is the way to go.


Does everyone remember why the Dwight Howard signing and release was so unusual? Because a majority of the time players are not unsigned going into the last year of their contract, no GM would keep their job if they didn't pester the superstar into signing an extension when they are of elite value in free agency, its business 101 if you have a commodity that's of highest value then you can bet that its also in the highest demand


Well, the Dwight situation was a bit different. We were just a few years removed from a championship and operating under the assumption that no one willingly leaves the Lakers. Also, we had just assembled a team where Steve Nash, coming off an All-Star season, would be the fourth best player. It's a bit understandable that we thought Dwight re-signing was a foregone conclusion. Unfortunately, Murphy's Law beat us that season.
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2017 7:35 pm    Post subject:

tox wrote:
mhan00 wrote:
Runway8 wrote:
P.K. wrote:
Deathstroke wrote:
P.K. wrote:
What happens now, you ask?

same thing that was happening before. We have some talented young guys we've built through the draft. They're collecting more picks to try to build even more.

Rebuilds typically take 3-5 years. We're really still in year 1.

we keep on keeping on and see what else becomes available to build with.


We are not in year 1 of the rebuild.

in reality, yes we are
NOTHING, absolutely nothing, done during Randle's wasted broken leg year or during the final year of the KFT disaster were helping with a rebuild. Yeah, we got picks, but other than that - nothing


Tell that to Jeannie. Because apparently Mitch and Jim lost their jobs because we're supposed to be contending.


Jim Buss promised we'd be contending. He said he would step down if we weren't. Well, we aren't, and he wasn't stepping down. If he wasn't man enough to keep to his word, that's his problem. Him getting fired was the right move. It sucks that Mitch had to go with him, but them's the breaks and he also contributed in some capacity to the worst four year stretch in Laker history.

I don't understand. If it's Mitch's fault for contributing to the worst four year stretch in Laker history, then what is Magic doing right now? He's continuing along the same exact plan that Mitch (who apparently (bleep) up?) was taking, i.e. riding with the young guys? Shouldn't Magic be doing something different? Maybe trading for PG13, for example?



Who knows how much magic knows, staying put now helps the chances for that top 3 pick, PG-13 could hurt that, plus losing Ingram/randle now along with that 3rd pick would be quite the loss when you "could" keep the young guys and still get PG-13 in 16 months.

Teams are real wary of PG-13 now. Perhaps magic and pelinka have talked to PG-13 privatly, they know he is coming in 18', so sit tight for now, allow the young guys to grow, add a top 3 pick, and a 27th, and then in 16 months add PG-13....
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2017 7:59 pm    Post subject:

Not sure how you miss out on someone who wasn't available (Butler and PG13).

Also we may have offered a better deal than Cousins (or we didn't, the point is we don't know for sure). And we also don't know if Sactown would have been willing to trade with and improve the Lakers, a team that we have a historical Rivalry with. They may not have wanted to pull a trade.

I don't see is that we missed out on anything. A lot of people just assume, doesn't make it any more or less true than this.
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2017 8:10 pm    Post subject:

Cousins and the brow just lost by 30. Perhaps by 18' Cousins and PG-13 will join our current young guns and that new soon to be top 3 pick?

Cousins with 27 points, 14 boards, 5 assists, 5 steals, and 4 blocks....
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2017 8:13 pm    Post subject:

Lakers need to tank the rest of the way this year, of course. Must maximize odds to keep this year's pick and the 2019 one.

I think they need to tank next year as well and add another lottery pick. Just let the young kids develop and hopefully 1 or 2 will really develop and a couple of others will prove themselves capable of being good if not great players.

Then the following offseason you try to package the 2019 1st round pick with Deng or Mozgov's contract to get rid of 1 bad contract. Then bring in PG13 as a free agent, trade a couple of the young guys who developed during the 17-18 season for Westbrook.

After that, I'd build around PG13 and Westbrook until the remaining Deng or Mozgov contract comes off the books. Then I'd try to add Anthony Davis or Cousins as the 3rd superstar.

But it's not going to be a quick fix. Frankly, if Magic goes for a quick fix, it's going to backfire. The Lakers are still 5 years away from being a title favorite, IMO. And they're a couple of years away from being a playoff team.
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2017 8:21 pm    Post subject:

tox wrote:
mhan00 wrote:
Runway8 wrote:
P.K. wrote:
Deathstroke wrote:
P.K. wrote:
What happens now, you ask?

same thing that was happening before. We have some talented young guys we've built through the draft. They're collecting more picks to try to build even more.

Rebuilds typically take 3-5 years. We're really still in year 1.

we keep on keeping on and see what else becomes available to build with.


We are not in year 1 of the rebuild.

in reality, yes we are
NOTHING, absolutely nothing, done during Randle's wasted broken leg year or during the final year of the KFT disaster were helping with a rebuild. Yeah, we got picks, but other than that - nothing


Tell that to Jeannie. Because apparently Mitch and Jim lost their jobs because we're supposed to be contending.


Jim Buss promised we'd be contending. He said he would step down if we weren't. Well, we aren't, and he wasn't stepping down. If he wasn't man enough to keep to his word, that's his problem. Him getting fired was the right move. It sucks that Mitch had to go with him, but them's the breaks and he also contributed in some capacity to the worst four year stretch in Laker history.

I don't understand. If it's Mitch's fault for contributing to the worst four year stretch in Laker history, then what is Magic doing right now? He's continuing along the same exact plan that Mitch (who apparently (bleep) up?) was taking, i.e. riding with the young guys? Shouldn't Magic be doing something different? Maybe trading for PG13, for example?


You're seriously going to dog on Magic and "what he's doing" after two days on the job?

Get a clue.
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2017 8:33 pm    Post subject:

Your dreaming man, there is no way the league will allow its darling franchise to get all three superstars and quite honestly we could never afford all of them, the only real way we can get one of them is packaging picks and one of our best players not named DeAngelo or Brandon
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2017 9:08 pm    Post subject:

SickwithIt1010 wrote:
tox wrote:

I don't understand. If it's Mitch's fault for contributing to the worst four year stretch in Laker history, then what is Magic doing right now? He's continuing along the same exact plan that Mitch (who apparently (bleep) up?) was taking, i.e. riding with the young guys? Shouldn't Magic be doing something different? Maybe trading for PG13, for example?


You're seriously going to dog on Magic and "what he's doing" after two days on the job?

Get a clue.


I'm not dogging on Magic. I'm trying to understand how someone can go and proclaim -- "Hey Mitch oversaw the worst 3 teams in Lakers history" when Magic is doing the same. He just traded our best player for our a draft pick.

I'm not saying it's a bad strategy. I'm saying it's mind-boggling that people are on Magic's nuts for doing the exact same thing that the Lakers have been doing: lose to get assets. If you criticize the old regime for bad free agency signings, that's one thing.

But to categorically criticize on the basis of "WORST 3 TEAMS IN HISTORY" and to turn around and praise Magic for trading Lou for a 1st is absolutely asinine.
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2017 9:33 pm    Post subject:

LakerFan1977 wrote:
I understand that most fans probably have become patient because of circumstance and I sort of agree that it is possible to build a championship caliber team in 3 to 5 years, but I don't think any team in recent history has built them in house meaning almost entirely from the draft, maybe Detroit 2004 but someone would have to check on that, I think that if we get the No.1 pick the front office will seriously consider moving it because teams will probably start calling, their front office thinking hmmm Westbrook or George walk for nothing if they refuse to sign extensions or get a 1st pick and more doing business with a team they hate, I think the will choose the lesser of two supposed evils
uuhh gstate is looking at you in your face.

curry- draft pick
draymond- draft pick
klay-draft pick

they had all those guys already.
bogut draft pick.

They only signed iggy and livingston.

shoot harrison barnes- draft pick

the entire core outside iggy/livingston were picks.

so yes its possible and its almost set up that way with the new cba's in place.
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2017 9:39 pm    Post subject:

lakersfever714 wrote:


Because Jeanie wanted to give Moz and Deng enough time to prove themselves. You don't call them busts after just a few games. I think she did the right thing being very lenient to her brother.

You have to understand that the longer we wait on PG, the better the deal we will get. If we wait long enough until his contract expires, we might even get him for free. Getting him this year not only would cost us a lot but also will jeopadize our ability to tank. So not doing anything is a very smart move here.

It was clear by January Moz wasn't going to be consistent night in night out, same for Deng, unless you played him at the 4. Why not fire them then? I understand waiting on PG, but Mitch would've done the exact same thing. Sure the perception of the FO is different with Magic now than Mitch and Jim, but the methods they are using are the exact same. If you're going to throw out the old regime for their faulty methods, why use the same methods?
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2017 9:44 pm    Post subject:

splashmtn wrote:
LakerFan1977 wrote:
I understand that most fans probably have become patient because of circumstance and I sort of agree that it is possible to build a championship caliber team in 3 to 5 years, but I don't think any team in recent history has built them in house meaning almost entirely from the draft, maybe Detroit 2004 but someone would have to check on that, I think that if we get the No.1 pick the front office will seriously consider moving it because teams will probably start calling, their front office thinking hmmm Westbrook or George walk for nothing if they refuse to sign extensions or get a 1st pick and more doing business with a team they hate, I think the will choose the lesser of two supposed evils
uuhh gstate is looking at you in your face.

curry- draft pick
draymond- draft pick
klay-draft pick

they had all those guys already.
bogut draft pick.

They only signed iggy and livingston.

shoot harrison barnes- draft pick

the entire core outside iggy/livingston were picks.

so yes its possible and its almost set up that way with the new cba's in place.

their core may be drafted, but they've had a slew of great players, all star level helping out. livingston, iggy, those guys are big time players...Livingston especially did a lot of heavy lifting in the finals. no one talks about it. iggy was the damn mvp. this current nba is crazy.
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KobeDunk
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PostPosted: Thu Feb 23, 2017 9:54 pm    Post subject:

If we keep our pick we will have more assets to trade for one in the summer
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