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dcarter4kobe
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Joined: 30 Jul 2005
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 Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2017 11:18 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | Megaton wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | I think 1 will be stretched in 2018. |
That's certainly possible.
New CBA not having an amnesty really hurts. |
Team won't stretch both and carry 13-14m in dead cap space for 5 years. |
If it means getting 2 super stars, they would. We would capped out regardless during that span.
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2017 11:20 am Post subject: |
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| dcarter4kobe wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | Megaton wrote: | | yinoma2001 wrote: | | I think 1 will be stretched in 2018. |
That's certainly possible.
New CBA not having an amnesty really hurts. |
Team won't stretch both and carry 13-14m in dead cap space for 5 years. |
If it means getting 2 super stars, they would. We would capped out regardless during that span. |
I don't see us being in a cap situation to do that TBH.
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Lucky_Shot
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Joined: 10 Jan 2016
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| Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2017 11:27 am Post subject: |
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Think if we never signed these guys we would be going in FA with another 30 million!
These contracts took away are homerun power |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2017 11:28 am Post subject: |
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Well, consider it a goodbye gift courtesy of Jim/Mitch... 
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Lucky_Shot
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Joined: 10 Jan 2016
Posts: 5140
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| Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2017 11:34 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | Well, consider it a goodbye gift courtesy of Jim/Mitch... |
I never loved these moves but I had faith in Mitch and assumed he knew something I didnt but thats the thing if it quacks like duck |
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Dr. Funkbot
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Joined: 24 Sep 2001
Posts: 8188
Location: Eagle Rock
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| Posted: Thu Mar 09, 2017 11:36 am Post subject: |
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| Four Decade Bandwagon wrote: |
Ever consider both Moz and Deng looked at the roster and discussed the plan and their role for the year before they even signed? Both knew the plan was to still be a rebuild and likely lose games this season or more. That the young players would be given mpg to develop. And that there would be a high likelihood of DNPs by seasons end.
Have seen no indication that either player is complaining about playing time. They understand the situation. The team and their roles will be different next year.
Still believe they will be contributing as role players as the team gets more competitive over the next couple years. Or moved as part of a bigger trade. I understand that some dislike the contracts but these two are from useless as some seem to think. |
The contracts are bad, but I agree that there has to be some use for Deng and Mozzer. Deng especially seems to have gotten drastically worse between his playoff run with the heat and starting with the Lakers just 4 months later. I can't understand what happend there. Let's hope they can contribute a lot more next season because they will be Lakers for a long time.
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AFireInside619
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Joined: 11 Dec 2015
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| Posted: Fri Mar 10, 2017 11:17 pm Post subject: |
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| Rob Pelinka was asked on Mason & Ireland today how we would get ride of a couple of bad contracts, without mentioning them by name. Pelinka said that trades are easier to make and more GM friendly in the new CBA now. I seriously hope he can get ride of them without having to give up a young talent just for that sole reason. |
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greenfrog
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| Posted: Sat Mar 11, 2017 9:30 am Post subject: |
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| Dr. Funkbot wrote: | | Four Decade Bandwagon wrote: |
Ever consider both Moz and Deng looked at the roster and discussed the plan and their role for the year before they even signed? Both knew the plan was to still be a rebuild and likely lose games this season or more. That the young players would be given mpg to develop. And that there would be a high likelihood of DNPs by seasons end.
Have seen no indication that either player is complaining about playing time. They understand the situation. The team and their roles will be different next year.
Still believe they will be contributing as role players as the team gets more competitive over the next couple years. Or moved as part of a bigger trade. I understand that some dislike the contracts but these two are from useless as some seem to think. |
The contracts are bad, but I agree that there has to be some use for Deng and Mozzer. Deng especially seems to have gotten drastically worse between his playoff run with the heat and starting with the Lakers just 4 months later. I can't understand what happend there. Let's hope they can contribute a lot more next season because they will be Lakers for a long time. |
,
He played the 3 is mostly what happened. He underperformed there last season too.
How or if we find room to play him there next season will be very interesting.
Last edited by greenfrog on Sat Mar 11, 2017 7:24 pm; edited 2 times in total |
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Chase.button07
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Joined: 19 Feb 2017
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| Posted: Sat Mar 11, 2017 9:54 am Post subject: |
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3 years or 7 years on payroll
Next summer: 2 years or 5 years on payroll.
Maybe next year somebody will bite on their contracts? With a v good sweetener |
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Inspector Gadget
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| Posted: Sat Mar 11, 2017 1:02 pm Post subject: |
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| AFireInside619 wrote: | | Rob Pelinka was asked on Mason & Ireland today how we would get ride of a couple of bad contracts, without mentioning them by name. Pelinka said that trades are easier to make and more GM friendly in the new CBA now. I seriously hope he can get ride of them without having to give up a young talent just for that sole reason. |
It's not as hard as fans seem to make, Teams are always willing to take chances on contracts and it doesn't matter
How big the contract is, teams are making billions of dollars they won't care if they were to take on a contract. |
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Laker's Fan
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Joined: 27 Jun 2002
Posts: 12850
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| Posted: Sat Mar 11, 2017 1:32 pm Post subject: |
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What do people think about a Brandon Knight for Luol Deng deal?
Beyond this season Deng is owed 3-$54M while Knight is owed 3-$44M. Neither guy is playing and the Suns have openly shopped Knight, who Magic has been very complimentary of in the past. Deng plays a position of greater value and Phoenix could consider this year an anomaly, especially given their history of reviving vets. Deng and Chandler were also teammates in Chicago early in their careers. As for the salary difference, LA could pay around $4 million of that and Phoenix is closer to the cap floor than the cap ceiling. Maybe add a second rounder to incentive things.
Bringing in Knight does two things for LA. First it gives you a pretext not to sign another guard to big money (including Nick) and slightly longer term, look at Clarkson deals more aggressively. But perhaps most importantly it saves some '18 cap and gives you a little more flexibility.
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Inspector Gadget
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Joined: 18 Apr 2016
Posts: 46639
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| Posted: Sat Mar 11, 2017 1:50 pm Post subject: |
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| Laker's Fan wrote: | What do people think about a Brandon Knight for Luol Deng deal?
Beyond this season Deng is owed 3-$54M while Knight is owed 3-$44M. Neither guy is playing and the Suns have openly shopped Knight, who Magic has been very complimentary of in the past. Deng plays a position of greater value and Phoenix could consider this year an anomaly, especially given their history of reviving vets. Deng and Chandler were also teammates in Chicago early in their careers. As for the salary difference, LA could pay around $4 million of that and Phoenix is closer to the cap floor than the cap ceiling. Maybe add a second rounder to incentive things.
Bringing in Knight does two things for LA. First it gives you a pretext not to sign another guard to big money (including Nick) and slightly longer term, look at Clarkson deals more aggressively. But perhaps most importantly it saves some '18 cap and gives you a little more flexibility. |
Why not just have Moz included? Moz-Deng for Knight and Chandler. |
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Inspector Gadget
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| Posted: Sat Mar 11, 2017 2:15 pm Post subject: |
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| FYI Chandler is a LA guy and would make his transition with the Lakers very easy. |
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Laker's Fan
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Joined: 27 Jun 2002
Posts: 12850
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| Posted: Sat Mar 11, 2017 2:24 pm Post subject: |
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How about Moz/Randle/#27 for WCS and Sacramento's pick of Gay or Afflalo?
On Court Fit: Lets you slide Deng down to his natural position (PF) and gives you a PF/C rotation of Zu, WCS, Black, Deng and Nance. You're just missing the stretch big. The upside you lose in Randle you gain some in return with WCS.
Sacramento has Papagiannis as their lotto Center prospect and Moz could tudor him in a similar way he has Zubac. Their owner has been said to like Randle. Also getting another first round pick in a deep draft likely proves interesting in their rebuild.
Cap Fit: Assuming the '18 cap is the one most important to the Lakers, Deng/Moz/Randle cost you $46.5 Million (assumes $12.5M cap hold for Randle) or maybe another $5-$7 million if you extend Randle before then. Deng/WCS by contrast cost you $22.7 million. That's a '18 cap savings of between $24-$31 million. With this kind of move I believe you could talk to 7-9 year max free agents and still have a max slot for PG in '18 (EDIT: You could do 7-9 year max in '17 and max George if you stretched Deng in '18 or traded Jordan for a pick).
Sacramento is going to struggle getting to the salary floor boasting up to $50+ million in cap space this summer and with the bitter taste in the agent community with how the Boogie deal went down. Overpaying Randle could help mend some fences, at least with CAA. Eating Mozgov's deal isn't going to have any opportunity cost as it's just going to be a ballast that helps them meet the salary floor.
Extra: Magic and Vlade are pretty good friends.
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Austin Reaves keeps his game tight, like Kobe Bryant on game night. |
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activeverb
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| Posted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 9:03 am Post subject: |
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| Inspector Gadget wrote: | | AFireInside619 wrote: | | Rob Pelinka was asked on Mason & Ireland today how we would get ride of a couple of bad contracts, without mentioning them by name. Pelinka said that trades are easier to make and more GM friendly in the new CBA now. I seriously hope he can get ride of them without having to give up a young talent just for that sole reason. |
It's not as hard as fans seem to make, Teams are always willing to take chances on contracts and it doesn't matter
How big the contract is, teams are making billions of dollars they won't care if they were to take on a contract. |
I wouldnt put it like this. No one wants to take on a bad contract, and everyone is constrained by the same salary cap rules so teams don't take on bad contracts casually. It will take work to move those contracts, and we'll pay a price from moving them if it happens |
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unleasHell
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Joined: 16 Apr 2001
Posts: 11591
Location: Stay Thirsty my Friends
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| Posted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 9:56 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | Well, consider it a goodbye gift courtesy of Jim/Mitch... |
the gift that just keeps on giving...
-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
How long do you expect Deng / Moz to be on the Lakers?
The correct answer is: TOO LONG!
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“Always remember... Rumors are carried by haters, spread by fools, and accepted by idiots.” |
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kikanga
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Location: La La Land
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| Posted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 9:57 am Post subject: |
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| yinoma2001 wrote: | | Well, consider it a goodbye gift courtesy of Jim/Mitch... |
And what a gift it was.
That combined 33 mill a year till 2020 is the biggest hurdle our franchise faces.
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"Every hurt is a lesson, and every lesson makes you better” |
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JM
Star Player
Joined: 25 Jun 2005
Posts: 1281
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| Posted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 10:35 am Post subject: |
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| Laker's Fan wrote: | What do people think about a Brandon Knight for Luol Deng deal?
Beyond this season Deng is owed 3-$54M while Knight is owed 3-$44M. Neither guy is playing and the Suns have openly shopped Knight, who Magic has been very complimentary of in the past. Deng plays a position of greater value and Phoenix could consider this year an anomaly, especially given their history of reviving vets. Deng and Chandler were also teammates in Chicago early in their careers. As for the salary difference, LA could pay around $4 million of that and Phoenix is closer to the cap floor than the cap ceiling. Maybe add a second rounder to incentive things.
Bringing in Knight does two things for LA. First it gives you a pretext not to sign another guard to big money (including Nick) and slightly longer term, look at Clarkson deals more aggressively. But perhaps most importantly it saves some '18 cap and gives you a little more flexibility. |
Are you kidding? In a heartbeat. |
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yinoma2001
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Posts: 119487
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| Posted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 10:49 am Post subject: |
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| JM wrote: | | Laker's Fan wrote: | What do people think about a Brandon Knight for Luol Deng deal?
Beyond this season Deng is owed 3-$54M while Knight is owed 3-$44M. Neither guy is playing and the Suns have openly shopped Knight, who Magic has been very complimentary of in the past. Deng plays a position of greater value and Phoenix could consider this year an anomaly, especially given their history of reviving vets. Deng and Chandler were also teammates in Chicago early in their careers. As for the salary difference, LA could pay around $4 million of that and Phoenix is closer to the cap floor than the cap ceiling. Maybe add a second rounder to incentive things.
Bringing in Knight does two things for LA. First it gives you a pretext not to sign another guard to big money (including Nick) and slightly longer term, look at Clarkson deals more aggressively. But perhaps most importantly it saves some '18 cap and gives you a little more flexibility. |
Are you kidding? In a heartbeat. |
I would too. Why would phx?
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ringfinger
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| Posted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 10:58 am Post subject: |
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I was on board with both signings when they happened. Price tags a little steep, but I knew it wouldn't be easy signing a great catch to come here.
I thought Deng would provide some veteran leadership and Mozgov a decent big who didn't have an ego big enough to get in the way of younger players.
Even though it clearly hasn't worked out, one thing I appreciate from both guys is that they aren't being distractions. Mozzy is the first guy off the bench to high five guys on timeouts, even after not playing for like 7 games straight.
Deng is invisible to me. On the bench, in the game, etc. |
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governator
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| Posted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 11:47 am Post subject: |
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| ringfinger wrote: | I was on board with both signings when they happened. Price tags a little steep, but I knew it wouldn't be easy signing a great catch to come here.
I thought Deng would provide some veteran leadership and Mozgov a decent big who didn't have an ego big enough to get in the way of younger players.
Even though it clearly hasn't worked out, one thing I appreciate from both guys is that they aren't being distractions. Mozzy is the first guy off the bench to high five guys on timeouts, even after not playing for like 7 games straight.
Deng is invisible to me. On the bench, in the game, etc. |
good perspective
If we have to move these contract(s) to clear space, for which star would you be willing to attach a JC or even a Randle? |
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greenfrog
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| Posted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 11:52 am Post subject: |
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| governator wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | I was on board with both signings when they happened. Price tags a little steep, but I knew it wouldn't be easy signing a great catch to come here.
I thought Deng would provide some veteran leadership and Mozgov a decent big who didn't have an ego big enough to get in the way of younger players.
Even though it clearly hasn't worked out, one thing I appreciate from both guys is that they aren't being distractions. Mozzy is the first guy off the bench to high five guys on timeouts, even after not playing for like 7 games straight.
Deng is invisible to me. On the bench, in the game, etc. |
good perspective
If we have to move these contract(s) to clear space, for which star would you be willing to attach a JC or even a Randle? |
It's not going to be for a "star" if that happens. A bad contract with even both of those two attached I don't think nets very much. |
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Chase.button07
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Joined: 19 Feb 2017
Posts: 4996
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| Posted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 12:01 pm Post subject: |
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| greenfrog wrote: | | governator wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | I was on board with both signings when they happened. Price tags a little steep, but I knew it wouldn't be easy signing a great catch to come here.
I thought Deng would provide some veteran leadership and Mozgov a decent big who didn't have an ego big enough to get in the way of younger players.
Even though it clearly hasn't worked out, one thing I appreciate from both guys is that they aren't being distractions. Mozzy is the first guy off the bench to high five guys on timeouts, even after not playing for like 7 games straight.
Deng is invisible to me. On the bench, in the game, etc. |
good perspective
If we have to move these contract(s) to clear space, for which star would you be willing to attach a JC or even a Randle? |
It's not going to be for a "star" if that happens. A bad contract with even both of those two attached I don't think nets very much. |
i don't see any contracts worse then these 2. maybe evan turner but thats about it. |
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yinoma2001
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| Posted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 12:07 pm Post subject: |
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I didn't like the guys they signed but totally understood why they wanted vets. Hopefully they can figure out what to do going forward.
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ringfinger
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| Posted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 12:11 pm Post subject: |
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| governator wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | I was on board with both signings when they happened. Price tags a little steep, but I knew it wouldn't be easy signing a great catch to come here.
I thought Deng would provide some veteran leadership and Mozgov a decent big who didn't have an ego big enough to get in the way of younger players.
Even though it clearly hasn't worked out, one thing I appreciate from both guys is that they aren't being distractions. Mozzy is the first guy off the bench to high five guys on timeouts, even after not playing for like 7 games straight.
Deng is invisible to me. On the bench, in the game, etc. |
good perspective
If we have to move these contract(s) to clear space, for which star would you be willing to attach a JC or even a Randle? |
Depending on the star, I'd attach anyone. DLo, for me, is the only player close to untouchable.
I mean, why wouldn't I move either of them even straight up for a bad contract that is of shorter length? They offer nothing. Deng offers no leadership value at all. Did crack me up how some folks were suggesting it earlier in the year.
Mozzy has more value for me than Deng. A big, seems to be a good teammate/cheerleader at the very least. |
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