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yinoma2001
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Joined: 19 Jun 2010
Posts: 119487
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 Posted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 12:18 pm Post subject: |
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| ringfinger wrote: | | governator wrote: | | ringfinger wrote: | I was on board with both signings when they happened. Price tags a little steep, but I knew it wouldn't be easy signing a great catch to come here.
I thought Deng would provide some veteran leadership and Mozgov a decent big who didn't have an ego big enough to get in the way of younger players.
Even though it clearly hasn't worked out, one thing I appreciate from both guys is that they aren't being distractions. Mozzy is the first guy off the bench to high five guys on timeouts, even after not playing for like 7 games straight.
Deng is invisible to me. On the bench, in the game, etc. |
good perspective
If we have to move these contract(s) to clear space, for which star would you be willing to attach a JC or even a Randle? |
Depending on the star, I'd attach anyone. DLo, for me, is the only player close to untouchable.
I mean, why wouldn't I move either of them even straight up for a bad contract that is of shorter length? They offer nothing. Deng offers no leadership value at all. Did crack me up how some folks were suggesting it earlier in the year.
Mozzy has more value for me than Deng. A big, seems to be a good teammate/cheerleader at the very least. |
Beat writers were saying how Deng was working a lot with Ingram. I'm sure he's been a really positive influence on the kids. I thought he would drop off in years 3-4 of the deal, not 1.
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lakerMark
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Joined: 22 Sep 2005
Posts: 478
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| Posted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 12:30 pm Post subject: |
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| Four Decade Bandwagon wrote: | They are here until the end of their contracts. Unless one of them is is part of a salary match in a blockbuster trade. Then the Lakers will have a George or Butler and another inflated contract to complain about.
Both Deng and Mozgov can contribute. Maybe not at the levels that all want or as "value " contracts. But they help the young guys become better by their professionalism.
At the moment their mpg are reduced to let the young guys get playing time. As most of us want to develop the young centers and Ingram. Next year they will have bench roles as the Lakers strive to become competitive.
I have never shared the critical opinions of both. Lakers had to spend to bring in a couple of legitimate quality vets to help babysit a group of 19 and 20 year olds. They paid a premium for them to join a 17 win team and to accept the frustration of the losses and reduced playing time this season because the "young guys need to play".
I would have loved for them to play better. But my expectations were more extensive then the PER or even the level some seem to expect. Both will serve their purpose for the next couple years. As planned. . |
They both were terrible pickups with only 20 wins we would have been better served to have cap space and babies without overpaid babysitters. We saved cap space for years only to spend it on these two clowns but passed on quality low cost free agents that could have helped us drastically Isiah Thomas comes to mind. |
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fontana3d
Star Player
Joined: 22 Mar 2013
Posts: 3794
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| Posted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 12:59 pm Post subject: |
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| lakerMark wrote: | | Four Decade Bandwagon wrote: | They are here until the end of their contracts. Unless one of them is is part of a salary match in a blockbuster trade. Then the Lakers will have a George or Butler and another inflated contract to complain about.
Both Deng and Mozgov can contribute. Maybe not at the levels that all want or as "value " contracts. But they help the young guys become better by their professionalism.
At the moment their mpg are reduced to let the young guys get playing time. As most of us want to develop the young centers and Ingram. Next year they will have bench roles as the Lakers strive to become competitive.
I have never shared the critical opinions of both. Lakers had to spend to bring in a couple of legitimate quality vets to help babysit a group of 19 and 20 year olds. They paid a premium for them to join a 17 win team and to accept the frustration of the losses and reduced playing time this season because the "young guys need to play".
I would have loved for them to play better. But my expectations were more extensive then the PER or even the level some seem to expect. Both will serve their purpose for the next couple years. As planned. . |
They both were terrible pickups with only 20 wins we would have been better served to have cap space and babies without overpaid babysitters. We saved cap space for years only to spend it on these two clowns but passed on quality low cost free agents that could have helped us drastically Isiah Thomas comes to mind. |
Yeah in losing our pick which Isiah Thomas would had done. So tanking was necessary the only thing we screwed up is giving Mozgov and Deng four year deals they should had gotten only two years. |
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misterioso
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Joined: 14 Jan 2008
Posts: 616
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| Posted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 3:27 pm Post subject: |
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| Laker's Fan wrote: | What do people think about a Brandon Knight for Luol Deng deal?
Beyond this season Deng is owed 3-$54M while Knight is owed 3-$44M. Neither guy is playing and the Suns have openly shopped Knight, who Magic has been very complimentary of in the past. Deng plays a position of greater value and Phoenix could consider this year an anomaly, especially given their history of reviving vets. Deng and Chandler were also teammates in Chicago early in their careers. As for the salary difference, LA could pay around $4 million of that and Phoenix is closer to the cap floor than the cap ceiling. Maybe add a second rounder to incentive things.
Bringing in Knight does two things for LA. First it gives you a pretext not to sign another guard to big money (including Nick) and slightly longer term, look at Clarkson deals more aggressively. But perhaps most importantly it saves some '18 cap and gives you a little more flexibility. |
If the Suns get through the lottery with a #3-#5 pick, they're looking right where Jackson, Tatum, and Makkanen (Dirk Jr) would fall in the draft; all of these guys are better than Deng. Plus they have TJ Warren who is developing nicely. They have no need for Deng.
They're also way below the Lakers in the salary cap, something like $8 or $9 million if I remember correctly. Carrying the big salaries of Chandler and Knight is not as big a handcuff for them as Deng and Mozgov represents for the Lakers. Even if they have to live with Chandler and Knight on the 2nd team, it's not going to be the end of the earth.
Since the All-Star break, Watson has shown his new small lineup can play effectively. So let's say the Suns will look like this in 2017-2018:
Starting Lineup: Chriss C, Makkanen PF, Booker SF, Bledsoe SG, Ullis PG
2nd Unit: Chandler/Len C, Williams/Bender PF, Warren/Dudley SF, Barboza SG, Knight PG
IMO, that Phoenix starting lineup could be very competitive in a fast paced, high possession league and supported by a strong 2nd unit.
Young, yes, but potentially very good. Booker is already knocking on the young superstar door, Chriss is way ahead of the curve and will be right behind Booker, and Makkanen has demonstrated a Dirk type skillset and might have the biggest ceiling over Jackson and Tatum, both of whom are no slouches and are probably immediate contributors wherever they go. |
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misterioso
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Joined: 14 Jan 2008
Posts: 616
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| Posted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 3:57 pm Post subject: |
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IMO, the only way to get rid of Deng and Mozgov is in exchange for other bad contracts for players who don't fit into their team's systems (like Deng and Mozgov) or are injured or to package them with one of the young core guys.
Perhaps another necessary ingredient is an FO desperate to make a move.
I'm not saying these would be good trades, but they are examples of trading trash for more trash, but possibly better trash.
Let's say things get so bad in New York where Hornacek benches Melo at Phil's behest in order to run the Triangle. Deng probably would fit in the Triangle better than Melo. Melo for 2 years @ $21 million vs Deng at 3 years / $18 million.
There's also Mozgov for Noah, essentially a straight trade. It would be trading DNP-CD for DNP-INJ. Talk up Mozgov as the doppelganger of Luc Longley and perhaps Phil will bite. Noah is no bargain, but if healthy, he'll at least bring a defensive effort to the court as a 2nd unit guy. Play him limited minutes, he might bring something more to the table than Mozgov.
Deng for Rudy Gay. Rudy Gay is going to be nothing more than a one year rehab session as he tries to find his way back from his torn Achilles. Maybe Ranadive and Vlade would be dumb enough to trade away an injured player with one year left on his deal for a healthy player with 3 years left.
I have no idea if these are doable, but having a trade partner with no signs of brain activity would certainly help. |
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Inspector Gadget
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Joined: 18 Apr 2016
Posts: 46684
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| Posted: Sun Mar 12, 2017 5:36 pm Post subject: |
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Some possible Moz-Deng trades this summer:
Mozgov to Phoenix for Tyson Chandler
Deng to Portland for Allen Crabbe
Deng to New York for Noah
Mozgov / fillers for Brook Lopez
Deng to New Orleans for Solomon Hill
Deng to Memphis for Chandler Parsons |
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