Mike D'Antoni: Mitch and Jim weren't the problem
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MJST
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 12:39 pm    Post subject:



You look back on this and see how right he was... and how right Jerry was to see the league headed in this direction as well 2-3 seasons before anyone else caught on.

Yet remember all the joy when he was gone.. now some of those fans sit here 3 seasons later and realize how wrong they were and how they didn't see it, and had to sit through two seasons of Byron while any evolution the Lakers made in their style took two steps backwards with Byron while the rest of the league took several steps forward with that exact style.

And now with Luke we're playing catchup.

Consider the fact that with D'Antoni, our starting lineup of

Kendall Marshall
Jodie Meeks
Wesley Johnson
Shawne Williams
Pau Gasol

with Xavier Henry, Jodie Meeks, Jordan Hill and Ryan Kelly off the bench was 21st in the league offensively.... and without Pau Gasol and Chris Kaman and Jordan Hill in his place dropped 51 points on the Knicks in a quarter..


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Last edited by MJST on Fri Mar 03, 2017 12:43 pm; edited 3 times in total
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pmacla
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 12:40 pm    Post subject:

Dwight's refusal to be a pick and roll player and not trading Pau for a stretch 4 is what doomed that team and D'Antoni.

If those 2 things happen, maybe Kobe doesnt tear the achilles and we stay competitive longer, only problem is we are probably at square 1 of rebuild now without any young talent
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tox
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 12:41 pm    Post subject:

GoldenThroat wrote:
tox wrote:
TBF if we didn't have D'Antoni as coach in '13-'14 we might have gotten Wiggins/ Jabari/ Embiid


These were our Top 10 guys in minutes played that year. People thought he was terrible for winning 27 games w/this team.

1) Jodie Meeks
2) Wesley Johnson
3) Pau Gasol
4) Nick Young
5) Kendall Marshall
6) Jordan Hill
7) Ryan Kelly
8) Robert Sacre
9) Jordan Farmar
10) Xavier Henry

Yeah, as long as they had a functional point guard, they were never bad. I remember our 13-14 start (or something like that) had Blake balling out. Between injuries and trading Blake for Baze (a clear tanking move btw), he was hamstrung in his system... and he still won 27 games with that trash roster.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 12:42 pm    Post subject:

GoldenThroat wrote:
tox wrote:
TBF if we didn't have D'Antoni as coach in '13-'14 we might have gotten Wiggins/ Jabari/ Embiid


These were our Top 10 guys in minutes played that year. People thought he was terrible for winning 27 games w/this team.

1) Jodie Meeks
2) Wesley Johnson
3) Pau Gasol
4) Nick Young
5) Kendall Marshall
6) Jordan Hill
7) Ryan Kelly
8) Robert Sacre
9) Jordan Farmar
10) Xavier Henry
Nah, it was the "only Phil" cats.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 12:50 pm    Post subject:

GoldenThroat wrote:
tox wrote:
TBF if we didn't have D'Antoni as coach in '13-'14 we might have gotten Wiggins/ Jabari/ Embiid


These were our Top 10 guys in minutes played that year. People thought he was terrible for winning 27 games w/this team.

1) Jodie Meeks
2) Wesley Johnson
3) Pau Gasol
4) Nick Young
5) Kendall Marshall
6) Jordan Hill
7) Ryan Kelly
8) Robert Sacre
9) Jordan Farmar
10) Xavier Henry


Byron would have won more.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 12:59 pm    Post subject: Re: Mike D'Antoni: Mitch and Jim weren't the problem

Inspector Gadget wrote:
http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/245173/Mike-DAntoni-Mitch-Kupchak-Jim-Buss-Werent-The-Problem

He appoints to unfortunate situations and circumstances.


Very good interview
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kwase
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 1:00 pm    Post subject:

Jim was the problem and so were you. He should have never been hired in the first place.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 1:04 pm    Post subject:

kwase wrote:
Jim was the problem and so were you. He should have never been hired in the first place.


True, wrong coach with that roster. Should have just hired Phil or just stick with Bickerstaff for the season
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 1:05 pm    Post subject:

kwase wrote:
Jim was the problem and so were you. He should have never been hired in the first place.

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PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 1:06 pm    Post subject:

MDA should only be hired when he has a player that can run the entire offense and pretty much be the coach on the floor. Like Steve Nash and Harden who are wizards at getting everyone involved and getting theirs too.

You put MDA on a team where he doesn't have that "floor general", and he's screwed. I'll give him credit that he gives his floor general free reign on the entire offense as opposed to limiting them.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 1:13 pm    Post subject:

Krispy Kreme wrote:
MDA should only be hired when he has a player that can run the entire offense and pretty much be the coach on the floor. Like Steve Nash and Harden who are wizards at getting everyone involved and getting theirs too.

You put MDA on a team where he doesn't have that "floor general", and he's screwed.


No...MDA should only be hired when you have communication between the front office, coaching staff and players on how you plan to play the game.

Then when have a clear idea of how to build a team what pieces you need and conversely free agents no what to expect and can be told about there role and how they fit within the team.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 2:03 pm    Post subject:

Krispy Kreme wrote:
MDA should only be hired when he has a player that can run the entire offense and pretty much be the coach on the floor. Like Steve Nash and Harden who are wizards at getting everyone involved and getting theirs too.

You put MDA on a team where he doesn't have that "floor general", and he's screwed. I'll give him credit that he gives his floor general free reign on the entire offense as opposed to limiting them.


To be fair he was hired when we had (what we thought was a healthy) Steve Nash.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 2:13 pm    Post subject:

I wanted him gone. There was an arrogance to him that I didn't like. He has a system that works - and he wasn't given a chance here with the right squad.

Hindsight 20/20 - but at the time, I couldn't stand the guy. My frustrations apparently were misplaced and unwarranted. But I'm not going to sit here and tell anyone I TOLD YOU SO.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 2:44 pm    Post subject:

GoldenThroat wrote:
Fortysixn2 wrote:
Vancouver Fan wrote:
lakersken80 wrote:
MDA was the wrong coach for that roster....
I think he would've fit in better with the current roster.
He would've been amazing with Dlo, Slim, JC and Jrock. Shame. He is a decent HC.


He would have been a better fit with the current roster, but IMO he's not a very good HC. He's a poor leader and was unwilling or unable to adapt to a roster that very obviously wasn't suited to run his offense. He's succeeding now because Harden is at the absolute zenith of his career and he's allowing him to do everything...ala Russell Westbrook in OKC. Harden is a top 50 player of all time at this peak, his team should be in the playoffs regardless of the coaching or his teammates.

Anyway, pre lou trade our offense was great...better than a lot of playoff teams this year...our problem is that we don't have good perimeter defenders, no rim protection and we don't make enough effort on that end and do the basics like box out. Pringles aint gonna help with that...


Man. Houston is on pace to win 57 games with either Eric Gordon or Ryan Anderson as their 2nd best player. Literally the same two guys that Anthony Davis couldn't get to the playoffs with.

Mike D'Antoni was the person who was right, screaming amongst a chorus of people within the Lakers organization...both on the court and off...who were wrong. Remember what an (bleep) he was for having Pau Gasol shoot (gasp!) 28 threes in a season? That same guy shot 69 last year and has already shot 52 this year under probably the greatest coach in NBA history.

No, he's not a leader of men, but people were chanting "We Want Phil!" in this guy's first game. This organization, its players, and its fan base never gave him a chance to succeed here, because of their hubris. And we ended up getting what we deserved.

At least we got high draft picks out of it.


It's simple. Phil won 11 rings 5 with Lakers. MDA hasn't even been the finals. He's not a championship coach and was a terrible choice for the roster we had. You give the guy a chance the best he has proven he can do is make the WCF. He doesn't practice defense you can't win rings like that
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 2:47 pm    Post subject:

BobbyB wrote:
Krispy Kreme wrote:
MDA should only be hired when he has a player that can run the entire offense and pretty much be the coach on the floor. Like Steve Nash and Harden who are wizards at getting everyone involved and getting theirs too.

You put MDA on a team where he doesn't have that "floor general", and he's screwed.


No...MDA should only be hired when you have communication between the front office, coaching staff and players on how you plan to play the game.

Then when have a clear idea of how to build a team what pieces you need and conversely free agents no what to expect and can be told about there role and how they fit within the team.



Yeah and top of all that, get him a player who gets everyone involved like Harden and Nash. That takes care of 90% of the problems on offense and within a team. Truly great coaches can adapt to multiple situations with different rosters and reign in egos for the greater good. MDA is a one trick pony.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 2:48 pm    Post subject: Re: Mike D'Antoni: Mitch and Jim weren't the problem

Inspector Gadget wrote:
http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/245173/Mike-DAntoni-Mitch-Kupchak-Jim-Buss-Werent-The-Problem

He appoints to unfortunate situations and circumstances.


What else would he say, they hired him. That was the worst combination of coach and player types in the world.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 2:51 pm    Post subject: Re: Mike D'Antoni: Mitch and Jim weren't the problem

Inspector Gadget wrote:
http://basketball.realgm.com/wiretap/245173/Mike-DAntoni-Mitch-Kupchak-Jim-Buss-Werent-The-Problem

He appoints to unfortunate situations and circumstances.


He got the best out of what he had, and some Laker mediocre players got big contracts. That's why we only got Jules, If it was Byron, we would have ended up with Andrew Wiggins.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 2:51 pm    Post subject:

But I thought Jerry Buss went out (somehow) and interviewed MDA from his hospital bed and then overrode Jim to make the MDA hire?

Maybe I should let it go. Jim's ass is fired.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 2:55 pm    Post subject:

GoldenThroat wrote:
tox wrote:
TBF if we didn't have D'Antoni as coach in '13-'14 we might have gotten Wiggins/ Jabari/ Embiid


These were our Top 10 guys in minutes played that year. People thought he was terrible for winning 27 games w/this team.

1) Jodie Meeks
2) Wesley Johnson
3) Pau Gasol
4) Nick Young
5) Kendall Marshall
6) Jordan Hill
7) Ryan Kelly
8) Robert Sacre
9) Jordan Farmar
10) Xavier Henry


Always said this...lots of people here thought the team would win 40 games next season.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 2:57 pm    Post subject:

Mike D'Antoni's comments are obvious. Most of us that truly follow the Lakers know that Mitch and Jim were only a part of the problem. They don't get enough credit for some of the fantastic things they did. Many around here just want to focus on the negative.

However, how do we only focus on Jim and Mitch in this article when the real problem while Mike D'Antoni was here was... Mike D'Antoni? He is one of the worst coaches I have ever seen (and yes, I do remember Byron and even Magic's stint as head coach). Mike D'Antoni had elite players, and was yet so stubborn in wanting to play ONLY his style of basketball. Any coach worth his weight is going to adapt to his players, not making his players play out of their comfort zone and in a manner that minimizes their abilities.

D'Antoni's only a great coach when he is placed on a team that is built for his style. It's unfortunate that we had to hire him to find this out. How would we know that he would refuse to adapt to D12 and Pau's strengths?
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 2:57 pm    Post subject:

GoldenThroat wrote:
Fortysixn2 wrote:
Vancouver Fan wrote:
lakersken80 wrote:
MDA was the wrong coach for that roster....
I think he would've fit in better with the current roster.
He would've been amazing with Dlo, Slim, JC and Jrock. Shame. He is a decent HC.


He would have been a better fit with the current roster, but IMO he's not a very good HC. He's a poor leader and was unwilling or unable to adapt to a roster that very obviously wasn't suited to run his offense. He's succeeding now because Harden is at the absolute zenith of his career and he's allowing him to do everything...ala Russell Westbrook in OKC. Harden is a top 50 player of all time at this peak, his team should be in the playoffs regardless of the coaching or his teammates.

Anyway, pre lou trade our offense was great...better than a lot of playoff teams this year...our problem is that we don't have good perimeter defenders, no rim protection and we don't make enough effort on that end and do the basics like box out. Pringles aint gonna help with that...


Man. Houston is on pace to win 57 games with either Eric Gordon or Ryan Anderson as their 2nd best player. Literally the same two guys that Anthony Davis couldn't get to the playoffs with.

Mike D'Antoni was the person who was right, screaming amongst a chorus of people within the Lakers organization...both on the court and off...who were wrong. Remember what an (bleep) he was for having Pau Gasol shoot (gasp!) 28 threes in a season? That same guy shot 69 last year and has already shot 52 this year under probably the greatest coach in NBA history.

No, he's not a leader of men, but people were chanting "We Want Phil!" in this guy's first game. This organization, its players, and its fan base never gave him a chance to succeed here, because of their hubris. And we ended up getting what we deserved.

At least we got high draft picks out of it.


My exact sentiments GT. MDA got a bad rap, but he was one of the best coaches we've had, he was also the coach to lead us into the modern era. Glad we lucked in on Luke, but this team would've been amazing if the showtime cartel just allowed him to do his job and the front office builds a team around his philosophy
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 3:10 pm    Post subject:

CandyCanes wrote:
Vancouver Fan wrote:
lakersken80 wrote:
MDA was the wrong coach for that roster....
I think he would've fit in better with the current roster.
He would've been amazing with Dlo, Slim, JC and Jrock. Shame. He is a decent HC.


He's not just a decent head coach. He's about to be named Coach of the Year.

The main issues with him were basically his inability to deviate from his system, poor social skills, and inability to coach defense. If we'd hired a defensive specialist as lead assistant under him, then he could have had better results.

I'm not sure Luke is really all that much better than him.


The main problem was the obstinate, passive-aggressive players. Now Pau is making the 3 sign after buckets...
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nash
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 4:55 pm    Post subject:

Deathstroke wrote:

It's simple. Phil won 11 rings 5 with Lakers. MDA hasn't even been the finals. He's not a championship coach and was a terrible choice for the roster we had.


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PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 5:02 pm    Post subject:

so we have MDA and Luke who love working with mitch and jim.
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PostPosted: Fri Mar 03, 2017 5:04 pm    Post subject:

nash wrote:
Deathstroke wrote:

It's simple. Phil won 11 rings 5 with Lakers. MDA hasn't even been the finals. He's not a championship coach and was a terrible choice for the roster we had.




Phil won 11 rings & 5 with the Lakers because he had some of the greatest players of all-time on his team...most frequently at least 2 at once. It's absurd to compare the two based on how many rings they have.

I look forward to hearing how MDA "failed" to make it to the Finals with this Rockets roster too. smh
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