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lakersfan8
Star Player
Joined: 27 May 2014
Posts: 2993
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 Posted: Sat Jun 22, 2019 7:08 pm Post subject: |
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| gooner wrote: | | lakersfan8 wrote: |
Simply put, I prefer LBJ+ young core + a max player than LBJ+AD+a bunch of role players. The desperation was what cost Pelinka loss on this trade. |
This presents your position accurately. You have a preference and based on that preference you adopt/believe/push a narrative that speculates Pelinka is incompetent. |
These are not entirely the same issue though. I have my preference but I would be totally okay with it if Pelinka got the deal done without giving up so much asset. I didn’t like many of Magic’s move because it involved too much risk and without careful planning regards to how they could fix it if things don’t go according to the plan. When I look at this trade, I don’t see how Magic will handle this trade any differently than Pelinka. |
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manlisten
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Joined: 09 Jul 2004
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| Posted: Sun Jun 23, 2019 10:38 am Post subject: |
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Which assets are people considering to be too many? The #4? Hart? The future firsts? The pick swap? For me the #4 was a given and the future firsts are an afterthought. The '20 pick is probably the most important to keep (obviously aside from #4) as that one should develop quickly enough to contribute to an AD led team. We still should have the '21 pick, the '23 and one of '24 or '25. I've seen people compare it to the Nash trade but they're conveniently leaving out that only one of those picks was consequential (Mikal Bridges) and the rest never produced NBA talent, as should be the case with this trade. I would've preferred to keep Ingram but I understand the machinations behind why he was traded in favor of Kuz. We gave up more than other teams did to acquire stars but I don't look at it as some gross overpay.
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It was reminiscent of one of those Most Interesting Man in the World advertisements: "I don't always shoot 6-for-28 from the field, but when I do, I become the youngest player in league history to score 28,000 career points." |
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Laker's Fan
Franchise Player
Joined: 27 Jun 2002
Posts: 12850
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| Posted: Sun Jun 23, 2019 10:57 am Post subject: |
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| Nash Vegas wrote: | | 2019 wrote: |
did we trade a future 2nd? |
Yes |
ATLs GM came from Golden St, so there are inroads there. I would also put a higher value on a ‘24 2nd from GS than a ‘20 2nd from the Lakers. But Rob definitely didn’t get a hookup.
In the end, the value really depends on what they did with the pick. |
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trablos
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Joined: 10 May 2017
Posts: 3020
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| Posted: Sun Jun 23, 2019 1:35 pm Post subject: |
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| manlisten wrote: | | Which assets are people considering to be too many? The #4? Hart? The future firsts? The pick swap? For me the #4 was a given and the future firsts are an afterthought. The '20 pick is probably the most important to keep (obviously aside from #4) as that one should develop quickly enough to contribute to an AD led team. We still should have the '21 pick, the '23 and one of '24 or '25. I've seen people compare it to the Nash trade but they're conveniently leaving out that only one of those picks was consequential (Mikal Bridges) and the rest never produced NBA talent, as should be the case with this trade. I would've preferred to keep Ingram but I understand the machinations behind why he was traded in favor of Kuz. We gave up more than other teams did to acquire stars but I don't look at it as some gross overpay. |
I would have like to keep Hart or a future 1st, but we did what we had to do. |
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audioaxes
Franchise Player
Joined: 26 Apr 2004
Posts: 12573
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| Posted: Sun Jun 23, 2019 8:27 pm Post subject: |
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| manlisten wrote: | | Which assets are people considering to be too many? The #4? Hart? The future firsts? The pick swap? For me the #4 was a given and the future firsts are an afterthought. The '20 pick is probably the most important to keep (obviously aside from #4) as that one should develop quickly enough to contribute to an AD led team. We still should have the '21 pick, the '23 and one of '24 or '25. I've seen people compare it to the Nash trade but they're conveniently leaving out that only one of those picks was consequential (Mikal Bridges) and the rest never produced NBA talent, as should be the case with this trade. I would've preferred to keep Ingram but I understand the machinations behind why he was traded in favor of Kuz. We gave up more than other teams did to acquire stars but I don't look at it as some gross overpay. |
I think BI+Ball+#4 was a more than fair package considering we were clearly the only ones who had a serious offer and that we were favorites to simply sign him outright if we just waited a year. Absolute final offer would have been throwing in a future 1st. |
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Frank The Tank
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Joined: 25 Dec 2013
Posts: 113
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| Posted: Sun Jun 23, 2019 11:49 pm Post subject: |
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| manlisten wrote: | | I've seen people compare it to the Nash trade but they're conveniently leaving out that only one of those picks was consequential (Mikal Bridges) and the rest never produced NBA talent, as should be the case with this trade. |
If we had to give up the #2 draft picks in the 2015/2016/2017 draft, wouldn't you agree that pick would have been consequential?
There were draft protections attached to the Nash trade that blunted how bad the trade could have been- it was supposed to be the 2015 pick, but it was Top 5-protected in 2015. And, then we had draft protections for a Top 3-protected in both 2016 & 2017.
Without the draft protections, that would have been the #2 overall pick in 2015, the #2 pick in 2016, and the #2 pick in 2017.
Usually, with draft protections, its to protect the team trading away their draft picks. But, with this trade, the draft protections are tilted in favor of New Orleans, the team getting the draft picks.
I think you're also overlooking the changes to the NBA draft which will make it easier for bad teams that don't tank to nab a high draft pick.
Finally, even if the draft pick doesn't amount to much, its still an asset that the Lakers could have used to trade for other pieces. The Cavs were able to fill out the teams surrounding LeBron by trading away their picks.
But, by giving up all those picks in this trade, we don't have those picks to trade in the future. Its going to be hard enough to build a championship team with our limited cap space and we've made it that much harder by giving up all these picks when we really didn't need to. |
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Laker's Fan
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Joined: 27 Jun 2002
Posts: 12850
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| Posted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 5:21 pm Post subject: |
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Like everyone else, I haven't been thrilled with the Laker FO. It's been amateur hour, a lot of it. But I will say this. Pelinka seems to have been at the center of getting Magic out of the PBO position, and it cannot be undersold as to how important that was for the long term health of the organization. He scooped Davis from Boston and the walls are coming down over there. By getting the Davis deal done early, he also gave his two superstars a window to recruit. He may be about to swap Walton, Shaw and Mermuys for Vogel, Adams and Hollins (ok, and Kidd). He replaced Nunez with Judy Seto.
Any number of these things could be couched as Rob doing what was best for himself. But if we're looking at the big picture, as-is we contend next year and are a "yes" from one of the top free agents from becoming a potential dynasty. July 1 might be a very big day for Mr. Pelinka. |
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Ziggy
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Joined: 10 Feb 2005
Posts: 12712
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| Posted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 6:35 pm Post subject: |
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| audioaxes wrote: | | manlisten wrote: | | Which assets are people considering to be too many? The #4? Hart? The future firsts? The pick swap? For me the #4 was a given and the future firsts are an afterthought. The '20 pick is probably the most important to keep (obviously aside from #4) as that one should develop quickly enough to contribute to an AD led team. We still should have the '21 pick, the '23 and one of '24 or '25. I've seen people compare it to the Nash trade but they're conveniently leaving out that only one of those picks was consequential (Mikal Bridges) and the rest never produced NBA talent, as should be the case with this trade. I would've preferred to keep Ingram but I understand the machinations behind why he was traded in favor of Kuz. We gave up more than other teams did to acquire stars but I don't look at it as some gross overpay. |
I think BI+Ball+#4 was a more than fair package considering we were clearly the only ones who had a serious offer and that we were favorites to simply sign him outright if we just waited a year. Absolute final offer would have been throwing in a future 1st. |
From the outside looking in, Ball and BI have missed a ton of games. BI had a potentially career-ending ailment. I'm Lonzo's biggest fan but he's a highly flawed player. We obviously value these guys more. This is why I was opposed to opening up trade talks again for AD, because I knew how undervalued our youngs were in the open market. The picks are what it took for the Pels to look beyond these flaws. |
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ocho
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Joined: 24 May 2005
Posts: 53796
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| Posted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 6:59 pm Post subject: |
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Rob received no votes for Exec of the Year.
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14-5-3-12 |
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KeepItRealOrElse
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Joined: 11 Oct 2012
Posts: 32767
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| Posted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 7:00 pm Post subject: |
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leor_77
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Joined: 23 Mar 2012
Posts: 21920
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| Posted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 7:04 pm Post subject: |
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| Magic and Bird getting a lifetime achievement award on the NBA Award show...Timing is kinda suspect. Almost like a PR repair type of thing for Magic. |
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realking24
Star Player
Joined: 12 Dec 2012
Posts: 2203
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| Posted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 7:09 pm Post subject: |
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| ocho wrote: | | Rob received no votes for Exec of the Year. |
I wouldn’t vote for him last year! Maybe this year lol hopefully |
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KeepItRealOrElse
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Joined: 11 Oct 2012
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| Posted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 7:09 pm Post subject: |
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| leor_77 wrote: | | Magic and Bird getting a lifetime achievement award on the NBA Award show...Timing is kinda suspect. Almost like a PR repair type of thing for Magic. |
yep |
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Baron Von Humongous
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Joined: 02 Jul 2015
Posts: 32979
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| Posted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 7:10 pm Post subject: |
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| ocho wrote: | | Rob received no votes for Exec of the Year. |
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Under New Management |
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venturalakersfan
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Joined: 14 Apr 2001
Posts: 144462
Location: The Gold Coast
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| Posted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 7:39 pm Post subject: |
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| leor_77 wrote: | | Magic and Bird getting a lifetime achievement award on the NBA Award show...Timing is kinda suspect. Almost like a PR repair type of thing for Magic. |
Or maybe it has been 40 years since their rookie seasons?
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RIP mom. 11-21-1933 to 6-14-2023. |
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Beir32
Star Player
Joined: 16 Feb 2016
Posts: 1710
Location: Western PA
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| Posted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 7:51 pm Post subject: |
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| audioaxes wrote: | | manlisten wrote: | | Which assets are people considering to be too many? The #4? Hart? The future firsts? The pick swap? For me the #4 was a given and the future firsts are an afterthought. The '20 pick is probably the most important to keep (obviously aside from #4) as that one should develop quickly enough to contribute to an AD led team. We still should have the '21 pick, the '23 and one of '24 or '25. I've seen people compare it to the Nash trade but they're conveniently leaving out that only one of those picks was consequential (Mikal Bridges) and the rest never produced NBA talent, as should be the case with this trade. I would've preferred to keep Ingram but I understand the machinations behind why he was traded in favor of Kuz. We gave up more than other teams did to acquire stars but I don't look at it as some gross overpay. |
I think BI+Ball+#4 was a more than fair package considering we were clearly the only ones who had a serious offer and that we were favorites to simply sign him outright if we just waited a year. Absolute final offer would have been throwing in a future 1st. |
Just like Paul George. |
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epak
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Joined: 30 Aug 2005
Posts: 34147
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| Posted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 8:42 pm Post subject: |
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| venturalakersfan wrote: | | leor_77 wrote: | | Magic and Bird getting a lifetime achievement award on the NBA Award show...Timing is kinda suspect. Almost like a PR repair type of thing for Magic. |
Or maybe it has been 40 years since their rookie seasons? |
Yep they are amazing.
I wonder if the award was set before Magic's departure. |
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xэloЯRolex
Sixth Man
Joined: 24 Jun 2019
Posts: 51
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| Posted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 8:49 pm Post subject: |
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| Rob Pelinka is the best GM in the league...i know that many people hate him (even some of our fans), but i'm sure that our future is very bright under his leadership... |
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AFireInside619
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Joined: 11 Dec 2015
Posts: 11447
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| Posted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 8:50 pm Post subject: |
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| xэloЯRolex wrote: | | Rob Pelinka is the best GM in the league...i know that many people hate him (even some of our fans), but i'm sure that our future is very bright under his leadership... |
This is how you choose to spend your first post? Either way, welcome to LG!
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“You have to dance beautifully in the box that you are comfortable dancing in.” - Kobe Bryant |
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xэloЯRolex
Sixth Man
Joined: 24 Jun 2019
Posts: 51
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| Posted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 8:52 pm Post subject: |
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| AFireInside619 wrote: | | xэloЯRolex wrote: | | Rob Pelinka is the best GM in the league...i know that many people hate him (even some of our fans), but i'm sure that our future is very bright under his leadership... |
This is how you choose to spend your first post? Either way, welcome to LG! |
yes and thanks  |
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HBLaker
Starting Rotation
Joined: 02 Jul 2018
Posts: 281
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| Posted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 8:55 pm Post subject: |
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| AFireInside619 wrote: | | xэloЯRolex wrote: | | Rob Pelinka is the best GM in the league...i know that many people hate him (even some of our fans), but i'm sure that our future is very bright under his leadership... |
This is how you choose to spend your first post? Either way, welcome to LG! |
I know, a positive post? Crazy. |
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LAL1947
Star Player
Joined: 26 Dec 2018
Posts: 1855
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| Posted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 8:58 pm Post subject: |
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| ocho wrote: | | Rob received no votes for Exec of the Year. |
You have to feel for him, Rob has been the sacrificial lamb to help preserve Magic's NBA "legacy". There'll be enough Exec Of The Year votes once he helps lead us to titles.
It's a good thing he put the "Has anyone seen Magic? He ain't in the office" operation in play when he did. |
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lakersfever714
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Joined: 05 Jan 2016
Posts: 11759
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| Posted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 9:04 pm Post subject: |
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| ocho wrote: | | Rob received no votes for Exec of the Year. |
That's because he hasn't been an exec for a full year yet. Magic's been running the show this year and Rob's been an executive for about 2 months.
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LeGoat! LeMazing! LeGend! |
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realking24
Star Player
Joined: 12 Dec 2012
Posts: 2203
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| Posted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 9:24 pm Post subject: |
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| xэloЯRolex wrote: | | Rob Pelinka is the best GM in the league...i know that many people hate him (even some of our fans), but i'm sure that our future is very bright under his leadership... |
Welcome and sorry Rob Palinka. Explain his bizarre behavior in which he told us a complete lie Which I will call the Kobe Batman Lie. I personally am a straight shooter and don’t like getting bs by people I don’t care if their famous or not.
I will admit I have been tough on him for certain moves and patterns that seemed amateur or not experienced example trading Zubac for nothing, or fracturing our relationships with our players via Lopez, Randle and the trade rumors with the kids. Having a complete separate war room last year is very troubling and tells to many biblical verses. Last one is tong and cheek.
How much was that Magic vs Rob I probably do feel better with Palinka. Lebron and Rich had a very heavy hand in this Anthony Davis trade. I also would of felt much better with Griffin negotiating and working for the Lakers instead. But after all that said and if they can sign some good free agents, with how screwed up our process was we might be completing for a championship!!!! People you can’t make this (bleep) up. I guess it truly is the Lakers way. So Rob sign some good people and listen to your scouts!!!!!and Pete!!! Please!! I’m willing to give him a fair shake and just move on until he proves otherwise. |
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LakerMindLA
Star Player
Joined: 26 Dec 2008
Posts: 5344
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| Posted: Mon Jun 24, 2019 9:37 pm Post subject: |
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| manlisten wrote: | | Which assets are people considering to be too many? The #4? Hart? The future firsts? The pick swap? For me the #4 was a given and the future firsts are an afterthought. The '20 pick is probably the most important to keep (obviously aside from #4) as that one should develop quickly enough to contribute to an AD led team. We still should have the '21 pick, the '23 and one of '24 or '25. I've seen people compare it to the Nash trade but they're conveniently leaving out that only one of those picks was consequential (Mikal Bridges) and the rest never produced NBA talent, as should be the case with this trade. I would've preferred to keep Ingram but I understand the machinations behind why he was traded in favor of Kuz. We gave up more than other teams did to acquire stars but I don't look at it as some gross overpay. |
The 20th pick was the least important to keep as it is the easiest to project. AD is a free-agent, Lebron is old and while we feel very strongly that AD will be on the 2021 roster and Lebron will still be dominant, anything can happen.
The biggest overpay though was 3 consecutive years of giving up 'rights' to your pick so far in the future after what was already given up.
If Lakers do have to rebuild within the next 7 years, they basically will be giving up 3 years of top picks in a row, especially if the rebuilt starts in 2022.
I have no problem giving up picks, but if we were going to give up so much, the picks should have been 2021 and 2023 with at most 1 swap in 2022 or 2022 and 2024 with no 2023 swap.
The details are minor, but they are very important for reducing the risk of this trade. |
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