OFFICIAL ROB PELINKA THREAD.
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vasashi17+
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 29, 2020 12:50 pm    Post subject:

Flavors wrote:
vasashi17+ wrote:
LD01: I’m no fan of Jules...but there was a large contingent that valued Jules and if we never traded him at the deadline and placed a QO on him to keep him restricted before the July moratorium, maybe it showed that we valued him too. Either way, dude was a 7th overall pick and we’re going to have to agree to disagree, cause no matter how you cut it, imo an asset was lost with nothing to show for it. At the very least you hand him a bag to get him paid and use him as salary filler with the Pels or work in a 3way to dump him (see the Wiz loving our kids).

As for no other assets left after Kawhi passed...we had 34m in cap, the AD trade couldn’t be official till July 6th and with Kawhi forcing Okc to move George, Russ was available and Htown was obviously interested in offloading Cp3.

A 3way deal or even a 4way deal still including the Wiz could have brought back a 3rd to pair with Bron/AD. At the very least we could facilitate a trade with Miami, Htown and/or Okc to have salary dumped on us along with draft pick incentives while Cp3 goes to Miami. The reason none of this was possible was cause we didn’t want to add salary that extended past 2021 and this led to scrapping the barrel for 2 year max deals with what was remaining on the market. Again agree to disagree but 34m in cap space was a great asset to have and we didn’t maximize its potential imo.

As for giving up the farm for AD, at the very least you expect dude to get locked up via an extension that takes him to 2022 where he gets a 35% max deal. That didn’t even happen... and even if he claimed he wanted to explore free agency, we still could offer him a 30%max extension directly after trading for him. But of course we couldn’t cause he waived his trade kicker to make room for Kawhi’s max, which didn’t happen and instead the barrel players got paid some extra dough as a result. Btw, Simmons, Bledsoe, Wall, Dejounte, Dray, Waiters, Tristan, JR are all Klutch klients that took extensions. Again, all we had to do was offer to see if it would take, but we couldn’t cause we talked dude into waiving it for Kawhi...woof.

But Rob exec of the year and deserves an extension....weeeeak!


Those example don’t apply here. All of those Klutch clients either accepted rookie extensions or took less than the max. AD had a major financial incentive to turn down an extension now.


If dude didn’t waive his trade kicker (after we whiffed on Kawhi, he still could have activated it since the deal can’t be official till after the moratorium concludes) he would make 31.2m this year and that enables him to get a 30%max extension for the 2020/21 season. Let’s say he signed a 2yr extension, that takes him right up to 2022 where he can sign a 35%max deal.

He wouldn’t lose any potential money via a 30%max extension. The only reason we couldn’t offer it (and had to wait 6 months to offer a sub-max extension) is cause dude waived his kicker.
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Laker_Dynasty_01
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 29, 2020 2:43 pm    Post subject:

vasashi17+ wrote:
LD01: I’m no fan of Jules...but there was a large contingent that valued Jules and if we never traded him at the deadline and placed a QO on him to keep him restricted before the July moratorium, maybe it showed that we valued him too. Either way, dude was a 7th overall pick and we’re going to have to agree to disagree, cause no matter how you cut it, imo an asset was lost with nothing to show for it. At the very least you hand him a bag to get him paid and use him as salary filler with the Pels or work in a 3way to dump him (see the Wiz loving our kids).

As for no other assets left after Kawhi passed...we had 34m in cap, the AD trade couldn’t be official till July 6th and with Kawhi forcing Okc to move George, Russ was available and Htown was obviously interested in offloading Cp3.

A 3way deal or even a 4way deal still including the Wiz could have brought back a 3rd to pair with Bron/AD. At the very least we could facilitate a trade with Miami, Htown and/or Okc to have salary dumped on us along with draft pick incentives while Cp3 goes to Miami. The reason none of this was possible was cause we didn’t want to add salary that extended past 2021 and this led to scrapping the barrel for 2 year max deals with what was remaining on the market. Again agree to disagree but 34m in cap space was a great asset to have and we didn’t maximize its potential imo.

As for giving up the farm for AD, at the very least you expect dude to get locked up via an extension that takes him to 2022 where he gets a 35% max deal. That didn’t even happen... and even if he claimed he wanted to explore free agency, we still could offer him a 30%max extension directly after trading for him. But of course we couldn’t cause he waived his trade kicker to make room for Kawhi’s max, which didn’t happen and instead the barrel players got paid some extra dough as a result. Btw, Simmons, Bledsoe, Wall, Dejounte, Dray, Waiters, Tristan, JR are all Klutch klients that took extensions. Again, all we had to do was offer to see if it would take, but we couldn’t cause we talked dude into waiving it for Kawhi...woof.


Pelicans wouldn't want Jules, they were rebuilding at the time and would prefer the cap space. Locking him up long-term and stashing him on the bench is a horrible strategy, Jordan Clarkson is an example of this. We put the QO on him just in case something could be worked out, the QO wasn't binding and you know that...

...Moving on, it would be disrespectful to both client and agent to offer AD an extension the way you proposed, after he specifically stated he'd be testing free agency. AD doesn't want to lock up his future, too many things can happen. AD has played on a garbage team his whole career, why would he lock himself in to any situation without testing the waters first?

The Lakers may stumble and the Warriors may acquire another superstar in the offseason (making the West unwinnable), or perhaps Chicago hits it big in the lottery and AD wants to go home. Why would a superstar limit his options by signing now? Star players bet on themselves and don't worry about locking in to long term deals unless they're happy with the situation. Even Kawhi, degenerative hip and all, only signed a 2+1. The players you listed who signed extensions were all happy with their situations, and got paid at or above market value.

The Heat didn't need us if they were intent on acquiring a superstar, they had the ballast and young talent to get a deal done. CP3's contract makes teams unwilling to give up too much for him. CP3 is only a marginal upgrade from Dragic, the price tag is too high for Miami if they also must dump salary to a third team in addition to giving OKC some young talent.

Even if they were hardcapped and we took on some salary to get them under that threshold, they would still need to send out 80% of whatever salary they got in return.

Therefore, Dragic would not be available, as he would be the ballast needed to acquire a Westbrook or CP3 (other players would be negative assets). The Heat would send us Waiters, Olynyk, or Meyers Leonard. Waiters is the best option, but not really worth the money, and who knows if they give any decent compensation that makes up for the loss of the several rotation players (or KCP, as his role would be diminished).

We can agree to disagree, but you are asking for the moon with your trade expectations.
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vasashi17+
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PostPosted: Sat Feb 29, 2020 3:01 pm    Post subject:

AD is perceived as “soft” by some...afraid of contact and/or injury prone. Either way, a max deal protects him against this narrative. Imo I believe he’s actually playing through a labrum injury. We’ll see in the offseason tho, but whether it was last summer or this coming summer, there was a path for dude to get his full 30%max and we allowed for one if those paths to get blocked so that we can give Green, Kcp, McGee, Boog, Cook a little more of that bag.

One thing you’re also forgetting is that he has to accept an extension. Like we offered him a sub-max in January and he declined, we could have done the same with a full max extension (Via trade kicker) immediately after the trade...and leave it entirely up to him to accept or decline it. Either way at, that’s a form if respect and not disrespect in offering a player a max deal ALONG with trading the farm for him.

Lastly, Miami needed to offload salary to make room for salary like Russ/Cp3 since they were hardcapped at the apron (via Butler S&t). If we were not angling to trade for Co3/Russ ourselves, we facilitate teams that need to unload salary (10 S&ts last summer hardcappimg all those teams) and have them incentivize it with draft capital (ie restock what we lost in the AD purge).

Bottomline, there were many paths to take and imo I thought our Kawhi contingency was the least favorable route. Different strokes for different folks tho, so I’m sure most are happy with our regular season, but I feel we could still be in this position while still restocking our assets and being in better position to pull off win-now transactions (see unable to add draft capital at this year’s deadline essentially making Kuz our “1st round pick” to offer at the trade deadline this year).

Btw, how am I asking for the moon when I said at the very least you should get future 2nds for assets before dumping them? Haha
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Laker_Dynasty_01
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 01, 2020 3:02 am    Post subject:

All that was offered when we tried to trade Julius at the 2018 deadline was a player's contract with one year left (Ajincia), plus a 2nd round pick. We could literally buy a 2nd round pick for less than it would cost to make that trade, the FO figured they may as well keep Randle for the extra two months and see if he helps us win a few more games.

I will say the pick we used on Wagner was mismanaged, anyone taking up a roster spot has to show immediate potential if not contributing on an NBA floor. Wagner had little chance to fit in the Lakers' near-future plans, and signaled Randle was on the way out a week before free agency.

AD accepting a max extension after saying he'd test free agency would signal that he fears injury.

Seeing as how the Heat were unwilling to trade Derrick Jones to dump Olynyk, highly doubt we even get an unprotected 1st for taking on Olynyk's salary, a player we don't need.

The Heat could have sent out some combination of Dragic/Olynyk/Waiters/Leonard/Winslow plus two young guys out of Herro/Jones/Nunn/Robinson and picks, and they could've matched CP3's salary without including a third team. A hard capped team can't receive salary in a s&t if over the apron, but can make (nearly) dollar-for-dollar trades straight up, just as long as they send out slightly more salary than they receive. Ryan Anderson had already been stretched, and the Thunder weren't hard-capped.

Apparently, Miami didn't want CP3 unless the Thunder took back their bad contracts, they weren't even looking to trade Dragic at any point in the offseason. The rumor of him being shopped to Dallas was refuted. CP3 is an upgrade over Dragic, but not worth double his salary over more years. And it's not Morey's style to break a dollar into 4 quarters, so Russ isn't an option.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 01, 2020 8:07 am    Post subject:

Fans are sleeping on Rob. KUZ, GREEN, and Markieff >>> Marcus.
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vasashi17+
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 01, 2020 8:48 am    Post subject:

LD01: appreciate the discussion bro and giving me a different perspective on how our FO and other teams may maneuver, but I just don’t see it that way.

With Bron on the books, AD about to get his own bag to take him to 2022 (2+1) for a 35%max bag and even targeting Kawhi last summer who also was angling for a 35%max bag in signing a 2+1, our FO has shown us multiple perspectives as well with no definitive end game. If Kawhi signed last summer and we traded everything (including future pick maneuverability) for AD, it would imply we in it to win now and not hold onto any Giannis possibility in 2021. Yet when we whiffed on Kawhi, we only targeted 2 year options and still would have to dump Kuz and our 2020 1st, while getting off our 2021 (9-30 pick of it doesn’t convey to the Pels) to get Bron enough money after he opts out of his 41m and still max out Giannis. Or we have to convince AD to take less than the max to make 2021 free agency a reality. Just too many hurdles to even take 2021 seriously. Yet that is how we pivoted once we whiffed on 2019 free agency.

Also what was the point of hiring Kidd and forcing Vogs to take a deal that lines up with Bron’s deal expiring? Was it to groom Zo? We were angling for an AD trade, so I guess not. Was it for Giannis in 2021? We were angling to grab Kawhi in free agency, so I guess not.

It’s that lack of direction that makes me question our FO a lot. Are you in it to win it now with Bron or are you angling to win it later via 2021 free agency?

Btw, there were many options other than facilitating a trade for Miami to get Cp3 as a contingency to Kawhi. That’s just one example of what we could have done with 34m in potential cap space. Miami was forced to stretch Ryan Anderson because they were pinned against the apron and couldn’t go into the season unless that was addressed. It’s the same reason the dubs needed to offload Iggy. Pair the hardcapped teans with small market teams looking to avoid the tax bill and again, there were many options we had with 34m in cap space. Again, we’re just not going to see eye to eye on this. You’re making it as if our FO had no choice to go after 2 year deals once we missed out on Kawhi. But that right there was their choice. They could have gone for 3+ year deals, but chose against it.

The regular season record is great, but I don’t credit that to a well constructed roster or even good coaching. It’s mostly our klutch duo doing the heavy lifting and I hope they don’t gas out when the real season starts.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2020 8:51 pm    Post subject:

The Markieff signing is looking like Jerry West's midseason acquisition of Bob McAdoo in 1981-82 or Mychal Thompson in 1986-87.

Pelinka has received almost every criticism imaginable, but looks like he'll have scoreboard come June.
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PostPosted: Sun Mar 08, 2020 9:31 pm    Post subject:

Congrats Rob
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Revenge games: Celtics - ✔️, 76ers - ✔️, Bucks - ✔️, Clippers - ✔️, Raptors - ❌, Pacers - TBD
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