Lakers’ Deng, Mozgov (a combined $136 million) are shut down for rest of season
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dcarter4kobe
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 11:37 am    Post subject:

BobbyB wrote:
anth2000 wrote:
No one in their right mind can defend these two horrible deals. Both players are good support players, Deng even a good leader/locker room guy but Mitch and Jim WAY overpaid for both of them. Some here say it was the market with the increase in cap but I still think Mitch and Jim way overpaid.

Both contracts are a huge issue with the Lakers rebuild mode. What do you do with $16 and $18mil a year and $136mil combined contracts? Yikes. Its so ugly.

If they can move Deng for something, I would take it. I still think Mosgov can do something for his $16mil a year.

Both still ugly, ugly contracts.


I can defend Moz but Deng not so much. What else where we going to spend our money on this summer?

Biyombo, ezeli, mahinmi?? Derozan? who looks like crap without Lowry.

The only guy we probably could have gambled on was Harrison Barnes.

Even then we would still be in the same position and fans would be wondering why we overspent for him.


Cole Aldrich, Bogut, Dedmon, Nene, Monroe
Joe Johnson, Jeff Green,Brandon Rush,Mbah a Moute

Replacement level players for replacement level money.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 11:45 am    Post subject:

dcarter4kobe wrote:
BobbyB wrote:
anth2000 wrote:
No one in their right mind can defend these two horrible deals. Both players are good support players, Deng even a good leader/locker room guy but Mitch and Jim WAY overpaid for both of them. Some here say it was the market with the increase in cap but I still think Mitch and Jim way overpaid.

Both contracts are a huge issue with the Lakers rebuild mode. What do you do with $16 and $18mil a year and $136mil combined contracts? Yikes. Its so ugly.

If they can move Deng for something, I would take it. I still think Mosgov can do something for his $16mil a year.

Both still ugly, ugly contracts.


I can defend Moz but Deng not so much. What else where we going to spend our money on this summer?

Biyombo, ezeli, mahinmi?? Derozan? who looks like crap without Lowry.

The only guy we probably could have gambled on was Harrison Barnes.

Even then we would still be in the same position and fans would be wondering why we overspent for him.


Cole Aldrich, Bogut, Dedmon, Nene, Monroe
Joe Johnson, Jeff Green,Brandon Rush,Mbah a Moute

Replacement level players for replacement level money.


Or just give them 2 year deals and be done with it or give them 3 years and put a team option on the 3rd year.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 11:57 am    Post subject:

I can't make sense of this. Two high paid players at the end of the bench and there is no real idea of where they fit in the future. I don't see why they're not playing.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 11:58 am    Post subject:

Jim/Mitch are the gift that keeps on giving. And I hate to put Mitch in there, but he got hitched to that wagon so unfortunately he's got to go along for the ride.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 11:59 am    Post subject:

This team, in 2017, would be way better off if Deng were playing. Probably Mozgov too but that's more matchup dependent.

This is as much of a tank move as anything else.
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bucketsandbags
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 12:02 pm    Post subject:

Unless they are somehow traded both guys are going to end up wanting buyouts or their careers are basically over. We won't be using them next year either. It's messed up but true.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 12:07 pm    Post subject:

Because they are top-notch veterans, I thought the money was fine. The years, lack of team/player options in the contract were not. Deng will be 32 next month. Mozgov will be 31 this summer. Nothing against them, but expecting both of those guys to be productive at 33, 34 years of age was such a gross miscalculation. Good thing it turned out to be a fire-able offense.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 12:08 pm    Post subject:

tox wrote:
This team, in 2017, would be way better off if Deng were playing. Probably Mozgov too but that's more matchup dependent.

This is as much of a tank move as anything else.


Pretty much.

But they are still radioactive nuclear cap waste.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 12:09 pm    Post subject:

:\

I really didn't have an opinion on Deng b/c I didn't know where his game was at when we signed him. But I did think when we signed Moz that we over payed but he would be able to contribute to the team.

Their situations have been disappointing to say the least.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 12:13 pm    Post subject:

DancingBarry wrote:
tox wrote:
This team, in 2017, would be way better off if Deng were playing. Probably Mozgov too but that's more matchup dependent.

This is as much of a tank move as anything else.


Pretty much.

But they are still radioactive nuclear cap waste.


To my knowledge, both Deng and Mozgov were starting when the Lakers went 1-12 in December, the worst 13 game stretch in Lakers history. They were still very bad with Deng and Mozgov.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 12:14 pm    Post subject:

Inspector Gadget wrote:
King Randle wrote:
Inspector Gadget wrote:
King Randle wrote:
The Lebrons wrote:
Inspector Gadget wrote:
When I look at the situation, it's unfortunate. but I wouldn't underestimate Pelinka finding a trade partner for both of them, the FO probably wants there own brand to create on the roster.


How on earth do you see them moving Deng and Mozgov? They have to be to at least in the top 10 for worst contracts in the league.


Exactly...Not even Pelinka can work that magic. We are stuck with these 2 stiffs until maybe the last year of their deals. Another example of the huge blunders by Mitch and Jim. Even if Walton wanted Mozgov, Mitch and Jim should've told him that the asking price is too much and moved on.

Inexcusable to be this financially irresponsible.


I understand the complaints about the contract and years, but my problem is that.. the FO.. should have been more open minded about our goals, any playoff team or a young team on the rise can use Moz and Deng as a valuable decoy, I think my frustration is that these guys probably thought they can help the team win games when it became clear that the Lakers were going full boar on rebuilding.

Trust me, a lot of teams would like Moz and Deng as a rotation piece, contract numbers won't change that especially when the cap is supposed to rise, I will give dozens of reasons why teams potentially will want these guys, but I don't want to explain it cause you guys act like these 2 players are some trash picked off from the streets.


You really believe that Gadget? I hope you're right I just don't see anyone wanting them for the price tag. I'm all ears if you care to explain.


Yeah, I believe it. These guys were not appreciated here even before the season started, and I mentioned it that it probably didn't sit well with them knowing that they didn't have the support of the fans, I mean we saw people still supporting Kobe when he got his 48M deal but both Moz and Deng were completely getting crucified almost every day on Twitter.

Imagine if a playoff team or a rising young team that might see these guys as a piece they can use for defensive purposes, I mean imagine if a playoff team sees Mozgov and his abilities and says hey I don't care about the contract years this guy can help me defend the quality Cs in the playoffs.

No FO in there mind think about Moz and Deng like you guys do.. that's my explaination.


I see your point. I just don't see a team that needs, like you put it, a defensive minded player, like Mozgov or Deng, taking back the massive contract for what would be spot minutes. $18 million a year for this? I don't see it, but I hope you're right and there are teams that are willing to absorb those contracts. If Pelinka can get even one of those contracts off the books he already earned his position and money.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 12:20 pm    Post subject:

The Nash trade and possibly losing this draft pick, which there is a good chance. We have been fortunate and these deals, death nails for Mitch and Jim. I'm hoping the next CBA has an amnesty clause but we're stuck we may have to stretch these salaries, terrible deals for the amount of years.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 12:26 pm    Post subject:

KindCrippler2000 wrote:
DancingBarry wrote:
tox wrote:
This team, in 2017, would be way better off if Deng were playing. Probably Mozgov too but that's more matchup dependent.

This is as much of a tank move as anything else.


Pretty much.

But they are still radioactive nuclear cap waste.


To my knowledge, both Deng and Mozgov were starting when the Lakers went 1-12 in December, the worst 13 game stretch in Lakers history. They were still very bad with Deng and Mozgov.


Of course. They aren't game changers, but Deng is still one of our best defenders. And on a team that's getting scorched lately, it's clearly a tank move. Of course it doesn't hurt, either, trying to take off any wear and tear when they've got that extra year on their contracts we'll be paying for.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 12:29 pm    Post subject:

DancingBarry wrote:
tox wrote:
This team, in 2017, would be way better off if Deng were playing. Probably Mozgov too but that's more matchup dependent.

This is as much of a tank move as anything else.


Pretty much.

But they are still radioactive nuclear cap waste.


It's the years. I think in 2017, Brewer helps our team more than Deng (since we're desperate for defense). And if we need the cap space for George in 2018. Brewer's contract expires.

I've seen replacement level players with long contracts moved. I've seen short overpriced contracts moved. But long, overpriced contracts for mediocre players. That's a tough sell.
Nobody is paying Deng and Mozgov 34 mill combined till 2020. Well... besides us of course.
Those two contracts are our biggest hurdle to rebuilding. And it'll take a truckload of sweetener to find a way to move them.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 12:36 pm    Post subject:

DancingBarry wrote:
KindCrippler2000 wrote:
DancingBarry wrote:
tox wrote:
This team, in 2017, would be way better off if Deng were playing. Probably Mozgov too but that's more matchup dependent.

This is as much of a tank move as anything else.


Pretty much.

But they are still radioactive nuclear cap waste.


To my knowledge, both Deng and Mozgov were starting when the Lakers went 1-12 in December, the worst 13 game stretch in Lakers history. They were still very bad with Deng and Mozgov.


Of course. They aren't game changers, but Deng is still one of our best defenders. And on a team that's getting scorched lately, it's clearly a tank move. Of course it doesn't hurt, either, trying to take off any wear and tear when they've got that extra year on their contracts we'll be paying for.


Honestly, I think Brewer is much better right now (as Kikanga stated above), but that's only because he has his legs about him. He's a pest on defense, has hop in his step, plays the passing lanes well, even though Rockets fans hated his over gambling.

With Deng, it's just the opposite. He'd have lift one game, only for it to disappear the next. A while ago, I talked about how he reminded me a lot of post-Achilles Kobe. It would have profound effect on his lateral movement.

Mozgov is still serviceable, but it's Zubac's time now. Last game made that much clear.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 12:43 pm    Post subject:

The deals that got Jim and Mitch fired. Inexcusable deals. Can't even remember how many times we struck out in the FA market cause of Mitch and crew. For some reason we always gave deals to over the hill players on their last legs with Mitch at the helm.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 12:43 pm    Post subject:

governator wrote:
Runway8 wrote:
governator wrote:
ocho wrote:
Not sure what the value of announcing this is.


To let other teams know they're DNP-CD cause we're tanking not due to health/injury/'declining play'

I hope


You have a better chance of tanking by playing Moz over Zubac. I think this is for two reasons:

1. To evaluate our young talent.
2. To hit home and highlight why they fired Mitch and Jim.


Didn't think of this, u might be right. Kinda petty tho


It is, especially since in doing that you punish the player as well
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 12:53 pm    Post subject:

KindCrippler2000 wrote:
DancingBarry wrote:
tox wrote:
This team, in 2017, would be way better off if Deng were playing. Probably Mozgov too but that's more matchup dependent.

This is as much of a tank move as anything else.


Pretty much.

But they are still radioactive nuclear cap waste.


To my knowledge, both Deng and Mozgov were starting when the Lakers went 1-12 in December, the worst 13 game stretch in Lakers history. They were still very bad with Deng and Mozgov.


I mean what did you expect? It was stated clearly by Luke that they were gonna choose growth and development over wins... these guys can't make a difference if the young players are making mistakes and trying to learn from those mistakes
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 12:57 pm    Post subject:

King Randle wrote:
Inspector Gadget wrote:
King Randle wrote:
Inspector Gadget wrote:
King Randle wrote:
The Lebrons wrote:
Inspector Gadget wrote:
When I look at the situation, it's unfortunate. but I wouldn't underestimate Pelinka finding a trade partner for both of them, the FO probably wants there own brand to create on the roster.


How on earth do you see them moving Deng and Mozgov? They have to be to at least in the top 10 for worst contracts in the league.


Exactly...Not even Pelinka can work that magic. We are stuck with these 2 stiffs until maybe the last year of their deals. Another example of the huge blunders by Mitch and Jim. Even if Walton wanted Mozgov, Mitch and Jim should've told him that the asking price is too much and moved on.

Inexcusable to be this financially irresponsible.


I understand the complaints about the contract and years, but my problem is that.. the FO.. should have been more open minded about our goals, any playoff team or a young team on the rise can use Moz and Deng as a valuable decoy, I think my frustration is that these guys probably thought they can help the team win games when it became clear that the Lakers were going full boar on rebuilding.

Trust me, a lot of teams would like Moz and Deng as a rotation piece, contract numbers won't change that especially when the cap is supposed to rise, I will give dozens of reasons why teams potentially will want these guys, but I don't want to explain it cause you guys act like these 2 players are some trash picked off from the streets.


You really believe that Gadget? I hope you're right I just don't see anyone wanting them for the price tag. I'm all ears if you care to explain.


Yeah, I believe it. These guys were not appreciated here even before the season started, and I mentioned it that it probably didn't sit well with them knowing that they didn't have the support of the fans, I mean we saw people still supporting Kobe when he got his 48M deal but both Moz and Deng were completely getting crucified almost every day on Twitter.

Imagine if a playoff team or a rising young team that might see these guys as a piece they can use for defensive purposes, I mean imagine if a playoff team sees Mozgov and his abilities and says hey I don't care about the contract years this guy can help me defend the quality Cs in the playoffs.

No FO in there mind think about Moz and Deng like you guys do.. that's my explaination.


I see your point. I just don't see a team that needs, like you put it, a defensive minded player, like Mozgov or Deng, taking back the massive contract for what would be spot minutes. $18 million a year for this? I don't see it, but I hope you're right and there are teams that are willing to absorb those contracts. If Pelinka can get even one of those contracts off the books he already earned his position and money.


It's not a major obstacle as you are making it seem, look how Dallas ended up trading Boguts 40+M contract even though he wasn't doing zlitch, sometimes NBA teams end up settling for something when the ink is dry.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 1:02 pm    Post subject:

Inspector Gadget wrote:
King Randle wrote:
Inspector Gadget wrote:
King Randle wrote:
Inspector Gadget wrote:
King Randle wrote:
The Lebrons wrote:
Inspector Gadget wrote:
When I look at the situation, it's unfortunate. but I wouldn't underestimate Pelinka finding a trade partner for both of them, the FO probably wants there own brand to create on the roster.


How on earth do you see them moving Deng and Mozgov? They have to be to at least in the top 10 for worst contracts in the league.


Exactly...Not even Pelinka can work that magic. We are stuck with these 2 stiffs until maybe the last year of their deals. Another example of the huge blunders by Mitch and Jim. Even if Walton wanted Mozgov, Mitch and Jim should've told him that the asking price is too much and moved on.

Inexcusable to be this financially irresponsible.


I understand the complaints about the contract and years, but my problem is that.. the FO.. should have been more open minded about our goals, any playoff team or a young team on the rise can use Moz and Deng as a valuable decoy, I think my frustration is that these guys probably thought they can help the team win games when it became clear that the Lakers were going full boar on rebuilding.

Trust me, a lot of teams would like Moz and Deng as a rotation piece, contract numbers won't change that especially when the cap is supposed to rise, I will give dozens of reasons why teams potentially will want these guys, but I don't want to explain it cause you guys act like these 2 players are some trash picked off from the streets.


You really believe that Gadget? I hope you're right I just don't see anyone wanting them for the price tag. I'm all ears if you care to explain.


Yeah, I believe it. These guys were not appreciated here even before the season started, and I mentioned it that it probably didn't sit well with them knowing that they didn't have the support of the fans, I mean we saw people still supporting Kobe when he got his 48M deal but both Moz and Deng were completely getting crucified almost every day on Twitter.

Imagine if a playoff team or a rising young team that might see these guys as a piece they can use for defensive purposes, I mean imagine if a playoff team sees Mozgov and his abilities and says hey I don't care about the contract years this guy can help me defend the quality Cs in the playoffs.

No FO in there mind think about Moz and Deng like you guys do.. that's my explaination.


I see your point. I just don't see a team that needs, like you put it, a defensive minded player, like Mozgov or Deng, taking back the massive contract for what would be spot minutes. $18 million a year for this? I don't see it, but I hope you're right and there are teams that are willing to absorb those contracts. If Pelinka can get even one of those contracts off the books he already earned his position and money.


It's not a major obstacle as you are making it seem, look how Dallas ended up trading Boguts 40+M contract even though he wasn't doing zlitch, sometimes NBA teams end up settling for something when the ink is dry.



Dallas traded Bogut with $40 million owed?

He was in the final year of his contract and it was for about $11 million.

If you have a quality link showing him with $40 million owed, please provide it.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 1:06 pm    Post subject:

Bard207 wrote:
Inspector Gadget wrote:
King Randle wrote:
Inspector Gadget wrote:
King Randle wrote:
Inspector Gadget wrote:
King Randle wrote:
The Lebrons wrote:
Inspector Gadget wrote:
When I look at the situation, it's unfortunate. but I wouldn't underestimate Pelinka finding a trade partner for both of them, the FO probably wants there own brand to create on the roster.


How on earth do you see them moving Deng and Mozgov? They have to be to at least in the top 10 for worst contracts in the league.


Exactly...Not even Pelinka can work that magic. We are stuck with these 2 stiffs until maybe the last year of their deals. Another example of the huge blunders by Mitch and Jim. Even if Walton wanted Mozgov, Mitch and Jim should've told him that the asking price is too much and moved on.

Inexcusable to be this financially irresponsible.


I understand the complaints about the contract and years, but my problem is that.. the FO.. should have been more open minded about our goals, any playoff team or a young team on the rise can use Moz and Deng as a valuable decoy, I think my frustration is that these guys probably thought they can help the team win games when it became clear that the Lakers were going full boar on rebuilding.

Trust me, a lot of teams would like Moz and Deng as a rotation piece, contract numbers won't change that especially when the cap is supposed to rise, I will give dozens of reasons why teams potentially will want these guys, but I don't want to explain it cause you guys act like these 2 players are some trash picked off from the streets.


You really believe that Gadget? I hope you're right I just don't see anyone wanting them for the price tag. I'm all ears if you care to explain.


Yeah, I believe it. These guys were not appreciated here even before the season started, and I mentioned it that it probably didn't sit well with them knowing that they didn't have the support of the fans, I mean we saw people still supporting Kobe when he got his 48M deal but both Moz and Deng were completely getting crucified almost every day on Twitter.

Imagine if a playoff team or a rising young team that might see these guys as a piece they can use for defensive purposes, I mean imagine if a playoff team sees Mozgov and his abilities and says hey I don't care about the contract years this guy can help me defend the quality Cs in the playoffs.

No FO in there mind think about Moz and Deng like you guys do.. that's my explaination.


I see your point. I just don't see a team that needs, like you put it, a defensive minded player, like Mozgov or Deng, taking back the massive contract for what would be spot minutes. $18 million a year for this? I don't see it, but I hope you're right and there are teams that are willing to absorb those contracts. If Pelinka can get even one of those contracts off the books he already earned his position and money.


It's not a major obstacle as you are making it seem, look how Dallas ended up trading Boguts 40+M contract even though he wasn't doing zlitch, sometimes NBA teams end up settling for something when the ink is dry.



Dallas traded Bogut with $40 million owed?

He was in the final year of his contract and it was for about $11 million.

If you have a quality link showing him with $40 million owed, please provide it.


I might have got the numbers wrong but 11M is still a lot for a C who wasn't playing and not contributing, at least Moz was actually playing.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 1:11 pm    Post subject:

kikanga wrote:
DancingBarry wrote:
tox wrote:
This team, in 2017, would be way better off if Deng were playing. Probably Mozgov too but that's more matchup dependent.

This is as much of a tank move as anything else.


Pretty much.

But they are still radioactive nuclear cap waste.


It's the years. I think in 2017, Brewer helps our team more than Deng (since we're desperate for defense). And if we need the cap space for George in 2018. Brewer's contract expires.

I've seen replacement level players with long contracts moved. I've seen short overpriced contracts moved. But long, overpriced contracts for mediocre players. That's a tough sell.
Nobody is paying Deng and Mozgov 34 mill combined till 2020. Well... besides us of course.
Those two contracts are our biggest hurdle to rebuilding. And it'll take a truckload of sweetener to find a way to move them.


Brewer has 2015 WCSF Tony Allen-type impact on the offense. Deng had a horrible shooting year this year and he's still an infinitely better shooting than Brewer. I'm not convinced Brewer is actually a better defender than Deng but it's moot. When your 3 is shooting 23% from the 3 point line, he's going to absolutely tank every lineup that he's in.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 1:14 pm    Post subject:

DancingBarry wrote:
KindCrippler2000 wrote:
DancingBarry wrote:
tox wrote:
This team, in 2017, would be way better off if Deng were playing. Probably Mozgov too but that's more matchup dependent.

This is as much of a tank move as anything else.


Pretty much.

But they are still radioactive nuclear cap waste.


To my knowledge, both Deng and Mozgov were starting when the Lakers went 1-12 in December, the worst 13 game stretch in Lakers history. They were still very bad with Deng and Mozgov.


Of course. They aren't game changers, but Deng is still one of our best defenders. And on a team that's getting scorched lately, it's clearly a tank move. Of course it doesn't hurt, either, trying to take off any wear and tear when they've got that extra year on their contracts we'll be paying for.


Exactly. They aren't game changers by any means. December was lost because of injuries to two of our team's offensive engines: Russell & Young. Especially Russell. Mozgov and Deng aren't good enough to make up for that.

And yet, Russell & Young's best lineup is with Mozgov and Deng. It's fairly self-evident that losing these two vets hurts the team. Just look at the lineup data.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 1:19 pm    Post subject:

tox wrote:
DancingBarry wrote:
KindCrippler2000 wrote:
DancingBarry wrote:
tox wrote:
This team, in 2017, would be way better off if Deng were playing. Probably Mozgov too but that's more matchup dependent.

This is as much of a tank move as anything else.


Pretty much.

But they are still radioactive nuclear cap waste.


To my knowledge, both Deng and Mozgov were starting when the Lakers went 1-12 in December, the worst 13 game stretch in Lakers history. They were still very bad with Deng and Mozgov.


Of course. They aren't game changers, but Deng is still one of our best defenders. And on a team that's getting scorched lately, it's clearly a tank move. Of course it doesn't hurt, either, trying to take off any wear and tear when they've got that extra year on their contracts we'll be paying for.


Exactly. They aren't game changers by any means. December was lost because of injuries to two of our team's offensive engines: Russell & Young. Especially Russell. Mozgov and Deng aren't good enough to make up for that.

And yet, Russell & Young's best lineup is with Mozgov and Deng. It's fairly self-evident that losing these two vets hurts the team. Just look at the lineup data.


And if Pelinka wants to trade Moz and Deng those kind of details is a good way to sell your players to teams.
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activeverb
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 1:20 pm    Post subject:

Inspector Gadget wrote:


I might have got the numbers wrong but 11M is still a lot for a C who wasn't playing and not contributing, at least Moz was actually playing.


Bogut was an expiring contract traded in mid season and he was immediately waived. He isn't in any way an example of how teams can trade a mediocre player with a big contract that has years to run -- his situation is the exact opposite of that, in fact.

So, yeah, three years from now when Mosgov's contract has a few months to go, he'd be easy to trade too.
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