Lakers’ Deng, Mozgov (a combined $136 million) are shut down for rest of season
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Omar Little
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 6:00 pm    Post subject:

iimarshon wrote:
Their deals suck. No doubt about it.

But if they're here, I think they can be capable backups for us going fwrd.

At least they're not headaches.

Dont attach young players and 1st round picks to get rid of them though.

Worst case - if we need the money to sign REAL players, just stretch/waive them.


I'd bet you a year's pay that if you start Mozgov and Deng at 4 and 5 all year, we have several more wins.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 6:12 pm    Post subject:

Omar Little wrote:
iimarshon wrote:
Their deals suck. No doubt about it.

But if they're here, I think they can be capable backups for us going fwrd.

At least they're not headaches.

Dont attach young players and 1st round picks to get rid of them though.

Worst case - if we need the money to sign REAL players, just stretch/waive them.


I'd bet you a year's pay that if you start Mozgov and Deng at 4 and 5 all year, we have several more wins.


I agree, Moz was playing solid ball when we started 10-10, Deng was probably showing some steady leadership, but as usual the contract numbers are giving fans a reason not to bring up positives.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 6:19 pm    Post subject:

There's no doubt both guys are on very spendy deals (and that LA didn't get the instant value it hoped for) but the idea that they aren't solid rotation players is kind of silly. When on the floor with DLO, young, and Randle, ingram, or black, they've been effective.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 6:22 pm    Post subject:

There is a lot of ground work for the FO to use if they end up selling both of them to teams in trade discussions, I think a poster already mentioned about the data showing there impact.. hopefully we can find them a new home but. I would expect solid play by both if there still a Laker in October.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 10:19 pm    Post subject:

Omar Little wrote:
There's no doubt both guys are on very spendy deals (and that LA didn't get the instant value it hoped for) but the idea that they aren't solid rotation players is kind of silly. When on the floor with DLO, young, and Randle, ingram, or black, they've been effective.


They're both solid guys and most teams in the league would love to have them as backups at the right price. Problem is they're probably making double what each is worth at this point.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 10:20 pm    Post subject:

activeverb wrote:
Omar Little wrote:
There's no doubt both guys are on very spendy deals (and that LA didn't get the instant value it hoped for) but the idea that they aren't solid rotation players is kind of silly. When on the floor with DLO, young, and Randle, ingram, or black, they've been effective.


They're both solid guys and most teams in the league would love to have them as backups at the right price. Problem is they're probably making double what each is worth at this point.

Indeed.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 10:50 pm    Post subject:

activeverb wrote:
Omar Little wrote:
There's no doubt both guys are on very spendy deals (and that LA didn't get the instant value it hoped for) but the idea that they aren't solid rotation players is kind of silly. When on the floor with DLO, young, and Randle, ingram, or black, they've been effective.


They're both solid guys and most teams in the league would love to have them as backups at the right price. Problem is they're probably making double what each is worth at this point.


I think double is probably a bit hyperbolic. I think 2/3 would probably put them in line with their ability/contribution, as would playing them in consistent and proper lineups and developing some consistency.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 11:00 pm    Post subject:

Omar Little wrote:
activeverb wrote:
Omar Little wrote:
There's no doubt both guys are on very spendy deals (and that LA didn't get the instant value it hoped for) but the idea that they aren't solid rotation players is kind of silly. When on the floor with DLO, young, and Randle, ingram, or black, they've been effective.


They're both solid guys and most teams in the league would love to have them as backups at the right price. Problem is they're probably making double what each is worth at this point.


I think double is probably a bit hyperbolic. I think 2/3 would probably put them in line with their ability/contribution, as would playing them in consistent and proper lineups and developing some consistency.


I'll always wonder what Moz's paint defense would look like with Deng and another vet as the Forwards rotating over after a challenge. It took him about a month to realize there would be nobody there.

P&R D is probably a mostly lost cause.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 11:11 pm    Post subject:

Wow. There are still a few defending these two horrible signings.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 11:12 pm    Post subject:

Omar Little wrote:
activeverb wrote:
Omar Little wrote:
There's no doubt both guys are on very spendy deals (and that LA didn't get the instant value it hoped for) but the idea that they aren't solid rotation players is kind of silly. When on the floor with DLO, young, and Randle, ingram, or black, they've been effective.


They're both solid guys and most teams in the league would love to have them as backups at the right price. Problem is they're probably making double what each is worth at this point.


I think double is probably a bit hyperbolic. I think 2/3 would probably put them in line with their ability/contribution, as would playing them in consistent and proper lineups and developing some consistency.


Mozgov started out pretty good and Deng started to play better maybe about 20 games ago. But if they were paid off of their current worth, I think even $8-10 million a year would still be considered that they are not performing to what is expected of an NBA veteran player. Now obviously we overpaid because the organization felt they couldn't land name players without paying a several million per year premium over what other teams might offer. Year one, it looks like a huge mistake, hopefully it gets better in the future. At least guys like Clarkson and Young played like guys being paid very well to play. Mozgov and Deng didn't, simple as that.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 11:13 pm    Post subject:

Are these bozos even traveling with the team
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 11:15 pm    Post subject:

Omar Little wrote:
activeverb wrote:
Omar Little wrote:
There's no doubt both guys are on very spendy deals (and that LA didn't get the instant value it hoped for) but the idea that they aren't solid rotation players is kind of silly. When on the floor with DLO, young, and Randle, ingram, or black, they've been effective.


They're both solid guys and most teams in the league would love to have them as backups at the right price. Problem is they're probably making double what each is worth at this point.


I think double is probably a bit hyperbolic. I think 2/3 would probably put them in line with their ability/contribution, as would playing them in consistent and proper lineups and developing some consistency.


Two thirds would put Mosgov at about $11 million and Deng at about $12 million. That isn't ridiculous but it's at the very upper end of what I'd be willing to give them. I think better or comparable players signed for less last year.

It would have been interesting to see what offers they got if we didn't rush in with our break the bank pitches.
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PostPosted: Wed Mar 15, 2017 11:29 pm    Post subject:

activeverb wrote:
Omar Little wrote:
activeverb wrote:
Omar Little wrote:
There's no doubt both guys are on very spendy deals (and that LA didn't get the instant value it hoped for) but the idea that they aren't solid rotation players is kind of silly. When on the floor with DLO, young, and Randle, ingram, or black, they've been effective.


They're both solid guys and most teams in the league would love to have them as backups at the right price. Problem is they're probably making double what each is worth at this point.


I think double is probably a bit hyperbolic. I think 2/3 would probably put them in line with their ability/contribution, as would playing them in consistent and proper lineups and developing some consistency.


Two thirds would put Mosgov at about $11 million and Deng at about $12 million. That isn't ridiculous but it's at the very upper end of what I'd be willing to give them. I think better or comparable players signed for less last year.

It would have been interesting to see what offers they got if we didn't rush in with our break the bank pitches.


Deng got roughly the same deal with one less year. Mozgov of course didn't field other offers, but his contemporaries were in the same ballpark. There were some bargains, but for the most part those guys haven't done much. There always some overperformers.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2017 6:50 am    Post subject:

Omar Little wrote:
activeverb wrote:
Omar Little wrote:
activeverb wrote:
Omar Little wrote:
There's no doubt both guys are on very spendy deals (and that LA didn't get the instant value it hoped for) but the idea that they aren't solid rotation players is kind of silly. When on the floor with DLO, young, and Randle, ingram, or black, they've been effective.


They're both solid guys and most teams in the league would love to have them as backups at the right price. Problem is they're probably making double what each is worth at this point.


I think double is probably a bit hyperbolic. I think 2/3 would probably put them in line with their ability/contribution, as would playing them in consistent and proper lineups and developing some consistency.


Two thirds would put Mosgov at about $11 million and Deng at about $12 million. That isn't ridiculous but it's at the very upper end of what I'd be willing to give them. I think better or comparable players signed for less last year.

It would have been interesting to see what offers they got if we didn't rush in with our break the bank pitches.


Deng got roughly the same deal with one less year. Mozgov of course didn't field other offers, but his contemporaries were in the same ballpark. There were some bargains, but for the most part those guys haven't done much. There always some overperformers.


We can debate whether they're 50% over paid or 33% over paid or somewhere in between. Whatever number someone picks on that Spectrum they're overpaid by a lot and they were bad signings
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2017 6:59 am    Post subject:

Biggest problem are the contracts. I wouldn't mind having Deng and Mozgov around making $8 million/yr. Although, I'm really disappointed with Deng's performance, I expected him to be playing way better.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2017 8:50 am    Post subject:

Seems we see our first FO gaffe, this issuance of a formal confirmation of the club's shutting down of the two most highly paid players on the roster. It seems to run head-on into problem, that the Lakers are on a path of intentional non-competitiiveness for the remainder of the season. That spirit of operation is something the league office can't publicly afford to appear to permit, let alone endorse. If I'd bought tix to Laker seats this year, it could turn me away for a long time, but I didn't buy season tickets again becasue I knew the club would be a nightmare to watch.

Very awkward.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2017 9:05 am    Post subject:

Omar Little wrote:
dcarter4kobe wrote:
We might have been more competitive in a couple games with Moz/Deng in rotation, but let's not act like they were getting us wins when they were active.


The original starting lineup, with them in it, was playing quality NBA starters to a standstill (actually slight positive in +/-). And if you replace Randle with Black or Ingram (moving Deng to 4), even more positive.

Fair to say they didn't deliver as expected and are very expensive, but also fair to say that the team really fell apart when the injuries broke up the two lineups and Luke never really put either back together again.

All fair. With that said, Mitch/Jim should have been more aware that Deng's best position was at the 4 moving forward, the same position we have 2 building blocks at (Randle/Nance)
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2017 9:07 am    Post subject:

dcarter4kobe wrote:
Omar Little wrote:
dcarter4kobe wrote:
We might have been more competitive in a couple games with Moz/Deng in rotation, but let's not act like they were getting us wins when they were active.


The original starting lineup, with them in it, was playing quality NBA starters to a standstill (actually slight positive in +/-). And if you replace Randle with Black or Ingram (moving Deng to 4), even more positive.

Fair to say they didn't deliver as expected and are very expensive, but also fair to say that the team really fell apart when the injuries broke up the two lineups and Luke never really put either back together again.

All fair. With that said, Mitch/Jim should have been more aware that Deng's best position was at the 4 moving forward, the same position we have 2 building blocks at (Randle/Nance)


I think that was going to be his long term slot, after they figured the other pair out. Vet stretch 4. I actually think Moz Deng and Randle Nance is a solid rotation they should have tried.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2017 9:09 am    Post subject:

FWIW, 2 of those 3 lineups I mentioned have Deng at 3. He was also part of plus lineups there.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2017 10:11 am    Post subject:

waterman40 wrote:
Omar Little wrote:
activeverb wrote:
Omar Little wrote:
There's no doubt both guys are on very spendy deals (and that LA didn't get the instant value it hoped for) but the idea that they aren't solid rotation players is kind of silly. When on the floor with DLO, young, and Randle, ingram, or black, they've been effective.


They're both solid guys and most teams in the league would love to have them as backups at the right price. Problem is they're probably making double what each is worth at this point.


I think double is probably a bit hyperbolic. I think 2/3 would probably put them in line with their ability/contribution, as would playing them in consistent and proper lineups and developing some consistency.


Mozgov started out pretty good and Deng started to play better maybe about 20 games ago. But if they were paid off of their current worth, I think even $8-10 million a year would still be considered that they are not performing to what is expected of an NBA veteran player. Now obviously we overpaid because the organization felt they couldn't land name players without paying a several million per year premium over what other teams might offer. Year one, it looks like a huge mistake, hopefully it gets better in the future. At least guys like Clarkson and Young played like guys being paid very well to play. Mozgov and Deng didn't, simple as that.

It would be interesting to see what Mozgov/Deng could fetch after this summer if they were free agents. Probly MLE deals (~8.4 MLE)
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2017 10:14 am    Post subject:

I saw something in the summer that broke down how you should never overpay for replacement level players no matter what the market is doing or if they brought the ever valuable "leadership quality", that's exactly what the Lakers did. Replacement level players can be found at a 3rd of the price we gave Mozgov/Deng every year.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2017 11:50 am    Post subject:

IceInMyVeins wrote:
Wow. There are still a few defending these two horrible signings.


I am past trying to justify or criticize the moves. They were made and all they can do now is make the most of it. Unless the Lakers know they have an out with these contracts and they won't be back, I just can't see why they're not trying to find roles for them like they are for the rest of the future. I'm pretty sure Deng and Mozgov are under contract for longer than almost all of the guys currently getting minutes.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2017 11:58 am    Post subject:

The main problem with both HORRIBLE signings was the length of the deals.

Deng came into the league when he was 19/20. He was 31 when signed a 4 YEAR DEAL.

Mozgov was 30 when he signed a 4 YEAR DEAL.

Even superstars on the wrong side of 30 only sign for 2 year deals (Kobe & LeBron)

We had money and we spent it FOOLISHLY. Both guys had mileage (Deng) and Injury histories (Mozgov). 2 years /36 million for Deng and 2 years 28 for Mozgov would have done it. If not, so be it.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2017 12:04 pm    Post subject:

Treble Clef wrote:
IceInMyVeins wrote:
Wow. There are still a few defending these two horrible signings.


I am past trying to justify or criticize the moves. They were made and all they can do now is make the most of it. Unless the Lakers know they have an out with these contracts and they won't be back, I just can't see why they're not trying to find roles for them like they are for the rest of the future. I'm pretty sure Deng and Mozgov are under contract for longer than almost all of the guys currently getting minutes.


In Deng's case it's pretty hard to find a role for him with the logjam at the 4.
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PostPosted: Thu Mar 16, 2017 12:14 pm    Post subject:

These signings give me a headache anytime I'm reminded of them.
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